Rachel Maddow (AAR): Rove and Rep. conspiring to help Hillary

[elizm]

Rachel Maddow says she will talk on her show today (6-8pm) why she believes Karl Rove and the Republicans are conspiring to HELP Hillary Clinton. Might be worth a listen....especially for the Hillary supporters who seem to have a deaf ear to all of this. Listen online at airamericaradio.com

[nini]

1. they want to 'help' her to get the nomination because

they think they can rip her to shreds in the general election.

Please.. they hate her and would rather slit their wrists than see her as pres

[CTD]

56. Of everyone running in both parties, Hillary is closest to W

We can only speculate at this point as to her ties to the BFEE but she apparently has the neocon seal of approval.

[nini]

57. LOL

right :eyes:

[GreenTea]

2. Why Rove likes Hillary....

Earl Ofari Hutchinson is an author and political analyst.

Alternet:

"Rove banks that though some conservative Republicans jumped Bush's ship in the 2006 midterm elections and voted for Democrats, many would almost certainly jump back to the Republicans in 2008 with Hillary as candidate. That would make it virtually impossible for the Democrats to pry the crucial one, let alone, two states away from the Southern Republican bloc.

The potential Democratic loss of that big a swath of electoral votes going in the presidential election door can be dumped squarely on the deep and resonant hate Bill residue that still tarnishes her. That hatred was driven by the GOP's distaste for a Democrat in the White House savvy enough to pilfer some of their core issues and give better voice to them than they did.

When Hillary hit back and branded the hate Clinton's campaign a vast right wing conspiracy, the Hillary bashers jerked into paroxysms of rage. Though the impeachment drive against Bill eventually crashed and burned, her political activism marked her as someone capable of stepping out of Bill's shadow and carving out her own political path. This made her even more of an inviting target. That hasn't changed in the years since she left the White House.

In a well-publicized warning and taunt at a conservative confab in September 2006 just weeks before the 2006 mid-term elections, evangelical idol Jerry Falwell tarred Clinton with the devil image and refused to take it back when he got flack for it. A month after she announced her candidacy in 2007 polarization was still the watchword with Hillary. A Post-ABC poll found that those who liked her dead heated with those who didn't (49 to 48 percent).

If the black and Latino respondents were taken out of the poll the dislike of her among whites would have been crushing. Hillary has been nonplussed by the smear attacks. In March 2007 she again leveled the right wing conspiracy charge against the GOP. She accused them of jamming phones and of voter harassment and intimidation against the Democrats in the New Hampshire election in 2002. The early polls in 2007 showed that in a one to one contest with former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and Arizona Senator John McCain, Hillary trailed badly.

In one poll, a near majority of respondents gave her little chance to win against them. Only the two failed Democratic presidential candidates, Al Gore and John Kerry, and the long out of power, even more polarizing, Newt Gingrich got higher negatives as potential presidential candidates. That was more amazing since Gore and Kerry hadn't expressed the remotest thought of running and Gingrich made mostly empty noise about getting in the race.

In a straight up match with Rudy Giuliani, Gallup's Annual Minority Rights and Relations Survey in July 2007 had him edging her by a couple of percentage points. That only told a fragment of the story. Take away the Hispanic and black vote, and Giuliani destroyed her. Non-Hispanic whites, overwhelmingly, backed him. Giuliani even noses her out among college educated Hispanics.

Overall, he got nearly one-third of the Hispanic vote even though in one national poll in July 2007 only 11 percent of Hispanics self-identified as Republicans. He got that despite the fact that he took the hardest of hard line stances against the immigration reform bill in the Senate in May 2007. He went so far at one point and called the immigration bill a "typical Washington mess."

There are also mixed signals if whether being a woman will help more than hurt her even with women in a wide segment of America. In a Newsweek poll in July 2007, fewer voters said that they would vote for a woman candidate for president than a black candidate."

More:

http://www.alternet.org /

[Flabbergasted]

20. Wouldn't Barack Obama inspire a movement right as well? nt

[sandnsea]

26. Not like Hillary will

There will be a smear campaign against any of them, because that's the way the right plays. But there's a built-in base of Hillary haters and they hate her more than they hate anything Bush has done. So the question becomes, do we gain enough from her policies to go through eight years of slaughter the likes of which we haven't remotely seen yet. I don't think so. In fact, if politics becomes Hillary's junkyard dogs against right wing hate radio - I'm going to beg out of the process completely and permanently. Our country will be done for.

[Flabbergasted]

35. Agreed, which is why I detest her so much. nt

[GreenTea]

36. Not a fucking chance!

Anyone with any fucking sense, and the slightest, just the slightest hint of perception knows there will NEVER be a President Obama...Get fucking real! Obama will NEVER get the Dem nod and republicans know it....But Hillary can with a push and some help from both sides...(I love the word fucking in my posts...it gets to my uneducated point so perfectly to go along with my ignorance)... Even VP looks to be a long shot for BO.

This is a very outwardly and even more so a hidden racist country...I know many, many "democrats", working stiffs, who would never ever consider voting for and African-American, or a woman for that matter. The republicans aren't stupid, nor idle on this, they want the weakest Dem candidate possible and are using the media very well in getting that candidate nominated - The republicans absolutely & positively do NOT want to face John Edwards - They want him gone yesterday!

So who would the republicans want nominated with a real chance to grab the nomination instead of Edwards --- Hillary of course!

[Flabbergasted]

40. That's what I was saying. nt

[GeorgeGist]

63. oh golly gee ...

Just what we need, another Clinton to pilfer the neocons core issues and give better voice to them.

[Horse with no Name]

3. I totally agree.

They want Hillary because their own candidates can't energize their base like Hillary can.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. Yup...

They view having Hillary as a candidate will be like the new "trifecta" for them -- they can scream "liberal", "woman", and "Clinton" endlessly and fire up their party like MittRudy can't.

And I tend to agree with them.

[tridim]

12. They'll never scream "woman"

and she already said she isn't a "Liberal". I think they'll try to morph the word "progressive" into the new "liberal".

My point is they'll use the same old buzzwords for every candidate, they just wont use sex or race directly, they'll just imply it.

[ihelpu2see]

60. exactly, and Fred Thompson, the man who'd be a candidate, is getting

vetted out and the right is starting to ask questions?? The right will not be energized by Fred Thompson....

On another note I am growing tired of the Hillary is better that Obama crap on the DU.

I am more interested in if Rudy can really win the Republican nom... It is a fight for the republican party... Can real people wrench the republican party away from NeoCon Christian Fundies...

I think, As Rachel Maddow does, we should really focus on the fight with in the republican party... So America can see how screwed up their belief systems are!!!!! Watching their debates are like watching bazzaro world!!!

[LaPera]

4. The republicans certainly want John Edwards out of the race as soon as possible.

The republicans want to run against who they believe they can beat much easier than an excellent charismatic politician with a great progressive platform as John Edwards has...They are doing everything possible to destroy Edwards early and get him out of the race...

The republicans much prefer and like their odds running against an African-American or a woman. This is no slight to either, it's just quite obvious...Much the same way ALL republicans have been trashing Edwards from the very beginning....just as they did with Howard Dean in 2004...The republicans don't just sit around each and every day, they are busy and conniving and setting things up, it's to their benefit to make sure the weakest Democratic candidate is nominated and running against them...And Edwards would indeed kick republican ass and the republicans absolutely know it!!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Capn Sunshine]

13. .....and right on cue, see below

:rofl:

[Cameron27]

24. So are you laughing because you'd never show up

to defend Obama when you think he's being insulted?

[wyldwolf]

28. I guess you prefer the less (far less) traveled echo chamber you usually hang out at?

:rofl:

[Forkboy]

51. You liked it enough to read my post there.

So it can be all bad.

[wyldwolf]

59. didn't say it was bad, it's just an echo chamber. Some people like that.

[wyldwolf]

6. LOL! Rachel Maddow? She's still around?

I remember her last day doing "Unfiltered." She went off on a tirade about Bill Clinton with all the required conspiracy theories included. Franken had to make a small apology.

She jumped Howard Dean's case once for something - don't recall. It raised the ire of the Deaniacs, though.

I believe her as much as I believe anyone on DU.

Sorry, Rachel, conspiracy theories and truthiness won't cut it even from you.

[LaPera]

8. I agree with you....Rachel Maddow is excellent!!!

Maddow is very sharp and extremely perceptive... and people who are a bit slow with zero perception...love to make fun of her....basically because they are stupid as well as extremely ignorant....So glad to see your NOT one of those!

Support Liberal Radio!

www.airamericaradio.com

[mod mom]

9. She's a semi regular on Countdown. She is very articulate and informed.

She has a PhD in Poli Sci and is a Rhodes Scholar.

[rinsd]

14. She's also in talk radio where the outrage = ratings.

[mod mom]

15. Um outrage is a sign of intelligence these days. She is a Rhodes Scholar!

[flyarm]

16. absolutely..and oh so correct...and anyone who doesn't believe rove et al are pushing Hillary

are just plain in denial..

thanks for this thread!!

fly:thumbsup: :hi: :thumbsup: :hi:

calling all hillary police..i can't hear you!!!

[LaPera]

18. Right, republican money talks!

Now how much of republican donations has Hillary received to date? Hundreds of thousands or millions? I lean towards the millions!!

[rinsd]

25. How much GOP money has John Edwards taken?

Or is just a few million ok?

[fooj]

19. I guess you just hang out with us lowly DUERS so you can harrass the shit out of us.

"I believe her as much as I believe anyone on DU."

Why the hell are you here if we are such accomplished liars/and or idiots?

Nevermind. :rofl: We already know the answer to that question, don't we?

[LaPera]

21. Just another hit & run artist...DU is full of them!

[wyldwolf]

32. are talking about yourself?

[LaPera]

45. I'm always around....

to help fight ignorance!

Need any help?

[wyldwolf]

58. No, I can fight your ignorance all by myself, thanks!

[jenmito]

54. She's a Rhodes Scholar. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

10. Thanks

:hi:

[BobRossi]

11. Hillary cannot, will not win.

Get a clue clueless lemmings. Hillary is the absolute worst thing to happen to Democrats since Dukakis or even Kerry. A DLC Dem is nothing but a repub in Dem clothing. Leave the dream world and get a clue.

[flyarm]

17. Hang tight..Gore is going to get in it!! he will not let Hillary be our candidate!! eom

[BobRossi]

22. Wanna buy a bridge, real cheap?

How about some property on the Moon?

[flyarm]

31. i don't need your bridge ..i have it from a damn good source!!

but i will let you keep trying to sell your bridge!..i am just not one of the takers!!

fly

[MissMarple]

23. Gore and Clark, that could work.

I pretty neutral right now, but Hil is not the highest on my list.

[KaptBunnyPants]

39. Why do you think this?

He liked the Clintons enough to serve as VP under Bill, and all the Democratic candidates have pledged serious action on carbon pollution, his main issue. Right now, Gore is sitting there, sucking all the wind out of any potential anti-Hillary candidate with his non-committed refusal to jump in the race. Maybe that's what he's trying to do, help out an old friend with some weaknesses on the Left.

[mopinko]

66. it's true

he is thinking about it. he has some bench marks that he is watching, but he is very much leaning toward a run. since none of the current crop is really saying jack shit about climate, he feels pushed. he is pissed. he is lining up his ducks.
bet on it.

[mzmolly]

53. Gawd hope so!

We need Mr. Gore.

[creeksneakers2]

62. Most polls show Hillary leading GOP candidates.

She's improving her image too.

[bvar22]

70. NONE of the polls factor in the effect of a 3RD Party challenge.

If ProWar/AntiLABOR Hillary is the nominee, there WILL BE a challenge from an Anti-War/ProLABOR 3RD Party that will attract defections from the AntiWar wing of the Democratic Party and ALL of the AntiWar Independents!
Take it to the BANK.
The Hillary Polls are counting votes she will not get on Election Day.

[MS Liberal]

27. I am voting for Hillary and you should too.

I am voting for Hillary. It would be okay with me if Obama, Edwards or whoever is vice president but it is time for a woman to put this nation on track.

[elizm]

30. Oh, PLEASE. nt

[flyarm]

34. no thanks ..she has no chance of winning!! and i will not go down that road! eom

[Colobo]

37. It's time for a black man.

[sandnsea]

42. what track

The track that throws bread crumbs at the poor as the train flies by them, the way Bill did in the 90's. Or the track that has trains that stop and welcome the poor on board, the way Democrats did in the past. Either train is better than the Republican one, which has the poor building the tracks just before the train runs over them; but we can definitely do better than Hillary's train and we shouldn't be fooled just because she's a woman.

[creeksneakers2]

65. Poverty dropped substantially under Bill Clinton

That was the first time in a long time and it hasn't happened again since. Big increases in the earned income tax credit came under Clinton.

[sandnsea]

68. Yes, the crumbs I spoke of

We also lost substantially in terms of unionizing, worker safety, workmen's comp, pensions, consumer court protections, etc etc. We wouldn't be in this mess if we'd had a President who would have articulated the fallicies of Republican ideology.

A large reason for the growth in the 90's was Microsoft and the internet, which was more Al Gore than Bill Clinton.

[LaPera]

48. What a sexist statement!

[elizm]

49. DON'T tell me what I SHOULD do...

...How arrogant.

[dflprincess]

69. It's time for a REAL Democrat

I'm sure the Republicans do think their candidate could beat Clinton, but if he doesn't, they'll still have a DLC Democrat in the White House so either way, they win.

[SaveElmer]

29. You've all been sucked into Karl's master plan...hear now the true plot and intention...

Rove, evil genius that he is, simply wants everyone to think he really wants Hillary as the Democratic nominee...he has ingeniously deduced, you see, that Democrats would naturally be suspicious that any mean words about the "Evil Queen of the Left" coming from his dastardly mouth would simply be interpreted as a plot to misdirect said Democrats into really believing that Rove did not want Hillary as the nominee, which he does, or so he wants them to think...in reality it is all an elaborate deception on his part to keep Hillary from being the nominee, by saying nice things about her which will be interpreted as an attempt to misdirect them into believing Rove really wants Hillary, and thus Democrats will naturally turn to Chris Dodd, who Rove believes is the easiest Democrat to beat because he has gray hair and no chin...unless Biden gets more plugs put in, then he might be pretty beatable as well...in truth, given that he has not said a single word about Kucinich or Gravel, it is patently obvious that he is most frightened by them as the ticket, or it could be he wants to think Democrats to think that so is keeping silent hoping they will believe that he thinks the Kucinich/Gravel ticket is actually the strongest, which he doesn't really believe...

Clear Now?!!!

[flyarm]

38. oh please ..save it..it won't sell with those of us who have worked many campaigns in our lifetimes

sell it to the dumb and dumber..it won't work ...she can not win nationwide..period!

she has the highest negative numbers of anyone..and they are the numbers that rarely ever change!

fly

[SaveElmer]

41. Sure that's what you want us to think you believe.,..

Really you are a secret operative from the Clinton campaign sent here to provide an "enemy" for her supporters to debate with...

I know the score!!!

[ronnykmarshall]

44. I seen it!

[SaveElmer]

46. You just have to look at it the right way...

Stare at it for a while like those cool posters from a few years ago that you had to stare at crosseyed to see the image...

Once you got it it all becomes clear!!!

:tinfoilhat:

[ronnykmarshall]

52. Like "Hypno Judy" .... turns ya gay!

[DU GrovelBot]

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[MasonJar]

43. I know that many here do not support Hillary and voice that opinion

as often as possible. I am for Gore and if he does not run, then I think it is time for a woman and Hill is the best choice. I will not let KKKarl and his right wing sychophants direct my vote. Neither should you. I will work hard for whomever the majority of dems choose. The alternative is unthinkable. Kerry did not lose. I worked in Ohio; there was so much chicanery there that it could not be masked. Al Gore was definitely cheated out of the presidency. The country has suffered, but even worse so has the whole planet and its people and creatures. The GOPers are all rapacious, bigoted money-grubbers and must be stopped, hopefully forever.

[elizm]

47. Please don't tell me what I 'should' do. nt

[sandnsea]

50. So why support Hillary??

What part of the party opposed fighting, even back in 2000? What part of the party still doesn't want to deal with election machines because they're afraid of being called cry-babies? Carville is the one who backstabbed the Kerry campaign by leaking their considerations on how to fight in Ohio. How in the world can you support Hillary if you think both elections where stolen. It is just unfathomable to me. They are the leaders of the problems in the Democratic Party. They are everything DUers say they hate about the Dem Party. Why would you turn around and support them???

[zulchzulu]

71. I'd vote for a woman president who didn't need a husband for validity...

...let alone a husband who cheated on her while right under her nose... you don't get more pathetic than that in my book.

Give me inspiration and more experience than being a First Lady wincing at the latest awful scandal... if you don't see the tragedy and selfish sense of entitlement right before your eyes, I can only offer some solace that she will never be President anyway.

Give me a Pelosi or a Boxer or a Maxine Waters anyday and I'd be out in the street getting people to sign on.

In the meantime...

[trayted]

55. It's called playfighting

Rove jabs in good fun at Hillary Clinton.

Clinton jabs in return at the Bush White House.

The "our team" versus "their team" mentality takes over, and Democrats get riled up at Rove for going after "Hillary." She benefits from it.

There's no way they dislike each other as much as Clinton tries to let on.

[tex-wyo-dem]

61. I very much agree with Rachel that the GOP...

Would like nothing better than to see HRC as the Dem nom. She is the best hope they have to energize they're base. They've been planning and counting on her run for POTUS for years and have built up a very robust hatered for her among their base.

Unfortunately, the GOP has enough racists in their base to turn against BO with almost as much fervor.

The last people they want to run against in the general election are Edwards and Gore: Edwards for his charisma and populist platform and Gore for his recogition and passionate stance for the environment among other issues.

[Colobo]

64. But why hasn't Edwards been able to gain support among DEMS?

[creeksneakers2]

67. Why is this same topic posted so many times?

If Hillary is the nominee I think she can pull it off. She has about 46% locked up and only needs 5% more.