Anyone But Clinton?

[Yael]

If you are not a Hillary supporter and she gets the nomination, what will you do in the general?

[xultar]

1. Anyone who stays @ home is an idiot.

[monmouth]

2. Absolutely, and don't call yourself a Democrat....

[xultar]

4. or a Liberal or Progressive. Cuz Democrats, Liberals and Progressives are smart

and in no way are any of us stoopid enough to pass up the right to vote.

[Forkboy]

79. Or an American,in my eyes.

Not voting pisses me off.I don't even care who it's for...just vote!!!!! It's the most basic example of democracy.

Do it...do it!

[beberocks]

6. I couldn't agree more!

Staying home and not voting only benefits the GOP. Not voting for the Democratic candidate just guarantees that Mitt, Rudy, or Fred get to extend the Bush policies for another 4 years.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. OTOH, nominating Hillary guarantees the same thing.

But I'll vote for her. After all, it may be the last vote I'll be allowed to make.

[Jai4WKC08]

50. That's exactly right

I'll vote for her too, but with the same sense of resignation to 4 more years of Republicans in the White House that I felt as I voted for Kerry.

[question everything]

46. Right. Like all the ones who stayed home in 1968

and brought us Nixon.

[HughMoran]

67. Agreed

Anybody who voted "stay home" should leave this site immediately.

[Sparkly]

80. Just gotta say -- I love your name!

:rofl:

[William769]

76. I would say they are a fucking idiot. NT

[MasterDarkNinja]

95. 100% agree, a moderate president > another neo-con president

People who stay home if Hillary gets the nomination are only shooting us in the foot, think of the supreme court, it's in grave danger of even going farther to the right if a repuke wins.

[PeaceNikki]

3. This is a stupid poll. Anyone who does anything but vote for her should not call themselves a Dem.

And go post elsewhere.

[redqueen]

5. What if they're in a red state that there's no way she's gonna take?

:shrug:

[PeaceNikki]

8. I dunno... I just think Dems should vote for Dems. I held my nose and voted for Kerry.

But did it, dammit.

[redqueen]

I did the same...

but being where I am, I'm seriously considering throwing a vote to the Greens.

[xultar]

15. I held my nose and voted for Gore. I hated his pick for VP and he shouldn't have

Dissed Bill Clinton.

I held my nose for Kerry I'd rather Clark, Edwards or Dean headline the ticket over Kerry.

[jgraz]

17. If CA's a lock, I'll vote Green

Even if Edwards gets the nom, I think my vote's more significant if I cast it for a progressive third party. I usually do this even when Boxer or Barbara Lee are running.

Of course, I'm still on the phones and sending donations to the Dems in close races.

[xultar]

21. How can you be sure of any lock with them hijacking the machines?

[jgraz]

26. If they hijack the machines enough to take CA, it's game over for us

And you can bet Hillary will just shut up and take it.

[xultar]

33. You are flat fucking wrong about that baby.

[jgraz]

47. About which part?

If they can get past SecState Bowen and actually throw the CA vote, they have way more power than I could have imagined. And if they do, Hillary will almost certainly pull a "kerry" and choose to preserve her viability for the next election.

[Tesha]

83. Curiously enough, in Connecticut, the right wing of our party couldn't seem to...

Curiously enough, in Connecticut, the right wing of our
party couldn't seem to manage that same courtesy when a
lefty Dem won the nomination for U.S. Senate.

Keep this in mind when they anoint Clinton and tell us
that, no matter how much she sucks, we have to vote for
her because she's the Democratic candidate.

Tesha

[PeaceNikki]

85. Are you advocating giving votes to Nader or Mitt or taking some percieved moral stance by

letting others decide?

What do you prove and to whom do you prove it? Should others do that if their candidate isn't nominated?

I thought this was www.democraticunderground.com and not www.myfuckingcandidateorthehighway.com.

[RaleighNCDUer]

96. Are you suggesting that Jomentum and the DLC and the democratic

right DIDN'T fuck us over in CT?

They demand that the left stays with the party and support their wing, but let a progressive take the nomination and they abandon the Democrats by droves.

[Tesha]

98. Thank you for stating it more plainly than I did. (NT)

[Tesha]

99. I'm suggesting that LETTING THE MEDIA AND THE CORPORATE DLC CHOOSE OUR CANDIDATE...

I'm suggesting that *LETTING THE MEDIA AND THE
CORPORATE DLC CHOOSE OUR CANDIDATE might just be
a SURE WAY TO LOSE.

And yes, while I'll never vote for a Republican, my days
of holding my nose and voting for ever-more-stinking DLC/
corporatist candidates just because they're the Democratic
nominee are over; they ended in 2004.

Tesha

[PeaceNikki]

100. So, vote for your candidate in the primary.

And... then what, abandon the party if they aren't selected??

[RaleighNCDUer]

101. Isn't that exactly what Lieberman and the DLC in Connecticut did?

It isn't a matter of us abandoning the party - it is the party abandoning us.

At some point we're going to have to start looking out for ourselves because the DLC sure as shit is NOT looking out for us.

[xultar]

13. What do you fucking mean. You think a Black man is gonna take in the South? What about Kucinich

You think he's gonna take? What about Richardson we know how whites in the south feel about Hispanics...and Biden and Dodd...Northern Liberals? Shit they'll go over like an elephant on a slide. Both Edwards and Clinton will do great in the south. A Clinton Edwards or Edwards Clinton ticket would kick ass in the south.

[redqueen]

16. Jesus...

'the hell did I do to get you cussin at me?

I don't think ANY of them will take my state...

[xultar]

19. Give it a rest. I cuss when I ask for someone to pass the fuckin pepper.

[redqueen]

22. ahahahahaha

'give it a rest'

you don't only cuss for color, you're also bossy! :P

[xultar]

30. I shoulda said when I ask a muthafucka to pass the fuckin pepper.

I'm @ work so I gotta think sorta clean...well cleaner than I do in the parking lot. :rofl:

[redqueen]

34. you sound like a FUN person!

:bounce: :7

[jgraz]

25. Y'know, I tried fuckin pepper once -- walked funny for a week

[xultar]

29. DAYUM! You must get out more.

[Mythsaje]

43. ROFL

Now THAT'S a DUzie.

[ronnykmarshall]

55. I do fucking too!

[napi21]

18. I wonder how many Pubs thought that same thing in their Red States

during the 2006 election? There were a lot of very close election results then, and just a few voters on either side really DID make the difference!

I live in Ga! You don't get much redder than that! I would NEVER vote for a Pub or a different party candidate...especially in a Presidential election. You never know how many Pubs are secretly disgusted with Shrub and what he's done that THEY might stay home! In that case YOUR VOTE will matter a lot!

[xultar]

24. DING DING DING! Inject some logic in this muthafucka.

[redqueen]

28. And that's why I said *considering*.

:hi:

[Yael]

Stupid?

I keep seeing people say that they won't vote for her regardless. I was just curious as to what they WERE planning to do.

I don't think its an issue -- this race will be Edwards' to lose once people start getting involved and hear what he has to say...

[PeaceNikki]

23. Yes, stupid.

[Mythsaje]

44. I think of all the candidates

Edwards has the best chance of pulling people over from the other side. They haven't spent the last thirty years trying to demonize populism, and he's more a populist candidate than a "liberal" candidate, though the two are remarkably similar in some respects.

If he can reach out and really speak economics to the Republican poor, they'll abandon the G.O.P. in droves.

[trayted]

71. Yeah, once 10-20% realize that the Clinton running is not "Bill" Clinton. Ever seen Jaywalking?

[trayted]

70. Some also feel that way about the primaries, if you didn't know. Like she's entitled to something.

[sandnsea]

87. Especially the anti-primary people

The ones who get all pissy about the primaries and say that nobody should bother until a week before the first vote. Then throw a hissy-fit if their candidate doesn't win, and stomps their feet and votes against their own best interest.

[Bill McBlueState]

7. it's 15 months away

That's plenty of time for the eventual nominee to let us know whether he/she values the progressive vote.

I vote Other: Too early to decide.

[Richard Steele]

9. It's early, but 29% say "stay home". Any wonder the RWers declared her "inevitable" years ago?

Nominating her is the only thing that could possibly give them
a chance of holding the WH.

Or, more likely, making their next stolen election seem believable.

Just for the record, I'll be voting for "whoever has the (D)" for Prez.
Even if I'm not thrilled to do it.

[Speck Tater]

10. I while back I would have said stay home. But that was stupid of me.

I will vote for her, of course.

[Colobo]

11. President Obama- He will unite us and make us proud again.

I expect Hillarites campaigning on the streets for Obama this time next year.

[MaineDem]

12. This is pathetic! n/t

[AtomicKitten]

14. It is really sad that the "anything but" paradigm

is applied to a candidate within our own party and that people are anxious and damn proud to declare they will bolt if she is the nominee.

I want the next Supreme Court nominee to be appointed by a Democrat and plan to pound the pavement to make sure a Democrat is in the White House 1/20/09.

[billyoc]

20. I won't support the DLC, no matter who their flavor of the month is. n/t

[killbotfactory]

27. I can't wait to relive the stupid attacks from the 90's.

While going to vote for a candidate that will give the democrats as little as possible for the next eight years, and who supported this stupid fucking war from the beginning.

Yes, please!

The best thing Hillary has promised is universal healthcare, but she hasn't released any details, and has stated it's her plan to get it passed by the end of her second term. Whoop de fucking shit.

[jgraz]

32. You got it -- it's fucking ridiculous that she's even being considered

If she gets the nom, get ready for ads that make the Swift Boaters look like lefties. Just who the hell do you think *'s been listening to for the past 6 1/2 years?

[AtomicKitten]

36. If that is true, why not unite behind a viable candidate?

I realize Kucinich is favored by many here, but I don't see him even reaching 5%. Wading through the happy talk that he can do it, history begs to differ. It is what it is.

So, unless Gore jumps into the mix, I see the alternative as uniting behind one of the other front-runners, Edwards or Obama.

For the life of me I have never understood why those on the further left aren't more proactive about changing the paradigm by strategic primary voting. Please enlighten me if I'm missing something.

[Colobo]

37. Let's rally around Barack Obama.

[AtomicKitten]

39. exactamundo

[jgraz]

45. I'm much more likely to support Edwards

I've met the guy and he really seems to be sincere about his populist beliefs. I hope he can break out in front after Iowa, where he seems to be leading atm.

[AtomicKitten]

49. I have a hard time getting over -

Edwards' eagerness to get the Iraq war on. What you peg as sincerity I see as opportunistic, and I can't shake that feeling.

HOWEVER, as the primary drags on, I will take a long hard look at the field and vote strategically in the primary. I would prefer not wading through Clintonpalooza again and hopefully the base can come to grips and agree on an alternative.

[jgraz]

52. Fuck -- I just wish Gore would get in the race and make this easier on all of us

:banghead:

[AtomicKitten]

53. I agree wholeheartedly.

Cheers.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

56. His populist beliefs are a rather recent development. My question is: what, besides the Democratic

primary, led to these beliefs?

And if he's so concerned about poverty, why does he live so extravagantly? How many lives could he save if he lived like Dennis Kucinch? He doesn't seem very sincere to me...

[wuushew]

58. Gore's house functions as a place of business

It is true that Kucinich lives in a smaller house, but comparing the two is not entirely appropriate.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

66. It's not just smaller. Kucinich has lived in the same house since 1971, a house

that he bought for $22,000. He practices what he preaches.

[jgraz]

59. At least he has some populist beliefs

The truth is you don't actually know how extravagantly he lives, outside of Fox Noise feeds about his house and haircuts.

Right now he's saying the right things and raising the right issues. I hope he, Kucinich and Gravel stay in the race as long as possible. They're the only three with any actual substance to their campaigns (even tho Gravel's substance is a bit wacky).

Of the three, Edwards is the only one who seems to have a shot at winning.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

64. But why do you think he's sincere?

He lives in a 20,000 square foot house. I don't think it's up for debate that he lives extravagantly.

[jgraz]

73. I've seen him speak and I believe his passion on the issue

His big house is a bit gauche, but none of the candidates are perfect.

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.0
==================



This week is our third quarter 2007 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend on donations
from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for your support.

[HeraldSquare212]

38. at some point

those who are ABC are going to have to coalesce around one alternative candidate in the primaries - that's what Anybody But x usually means, finding a different candidate before the end of the primaries, not staying home on the day of the general election.

[Mythsaje]

40. She's my last choice

but I'm not an idiot.

[welshTerrier2]

41. i will never vote for Hillary

i think the "stay home" option should be changed to "abstain from voting for president." Staying home when there might be other candidates for other offices and perhaps referendum questions may not make sense.

I guess I have to vote "other." I will either vote for a third party candidate, write in a candidate, or just abstain from voting for president given the scenario described in the OP.

BTW, my position may not be "Anybody but Hillary." That's yet to be determined. I'm done voting for corporate, pro-defense budget, Iran threatening, Iraqi Oil Law endorsing candidates. Keep sending up pro-corporate candidates and you can count me out.

[Blue_In_AK]

42. I hope it doesn't come to this

but I guess I'd have to support her, merely because it would assure a Democratic cabinet. That's about the only reason I can think of.

[NaturalHigh]

48. Other...

I haven't decided what I'll do, but I damn sure won't vote for Hillary Clinton.

[JNelson6563]

51. The Dem candidate has my vote.

End of story.

[AtomicKitten]

54. ditto

cheers!

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Seems there will be lots of 'noseless' people come election time.

[Dr Fate]

65. Unless there is a a more viable nominee, you might be right. n/t

n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

92. And that is the problem: short-sightedness (along with noselessness)

[davidwparker]

60. I'd vote for her and then expect the Dem party to swing back to the left.

I think we'll be done with the Clintons after Hillary, right. Chelsea isn't old enough to run. Or, are we expected to vote for her too.

Hillary would get a pass ONLY to prevent an (R) from getting in for 2008. After that, I'll choose stay at home if a populist candidate isn't the nominee.

[Dr Fate]

61. It is not just about voting, but about how hard you will work for the candidate.

My guess is that many DEMS will want to work for the DLC about as much as the DLC and Harold Ford types wanted to support Lamont or say something positive about Howard Dean.

I'll vote straight DEM as always- will I put blood, sweat & tears (And $$$$) on the line (as I have done in every election) by working under people who trashed me for opposing the war and supporting a grass-roots nomination process?

I hope I will, but it will require some extra inspiration, that is for sure.

[trayted]

69. I'll work for my Gubernatorial candidate and ignore the Presidential race. They wouldn't be

inviting Hillary Clinton to this state anyway, for fear that she would kill the rest of the Democrats on the ticket.

[Dr Fate]

72. I'll work for DEMS as always. Will I want to work under DLCers who openly despise the grass-roots?

Hell, I dont even know how that is supposed to work. It's like they never even thought of that part when they trashed us for 6 or so straight years.

One theory is that they plan on winning with corporate support and TV ads (the 1990's model)- problem there is that the GOP WILL have boots on the ground ringing doorbells, etc.

In the event that Hill wins the nod, the DLC's & other DEM "centrist's" treatment of the anti-war crowd and the "nut-roots" will come home to roost in a bad way if they dont mend fences but quick.

[RaleighNCDUer]

97. If Hillary wins the nomination, the DLC will take that as further

vindication, and things will only get worse for progressives.

I guarantee it.

[Stinky The Clown]

62. I will absolutely vote for her or any Democrat who gets our nomination. The real issue is ....

.... who I will work for. If I'm not happy with the nominee, that person will still get my vote. I am, however, far more likely to use my energy to work for local and state candidates.

[Dr Fate]

63. This is a point that many DUers never touch on. It takes more than just votes on election day.

It takes hard, passionate work, and you have to REALLY beleive in it to keep your stamina. It dont pay well, (if at all) either.

The DLCers need to ask themselves just how hard they worked for say, Lamont (D) vs. Lieberman (I), or how much they have stood up for Dean if they want an example of how this might work.

(Hint- the DLC "centrists" worked harder for what became Lieberman's conservative 3rd party-some like Ford even supported it when it WAS a 3rd party- and they openly attack the DNC chairman who is otherwise respected & beloved by most DEM activists and local parties.)

[Stinky The Clown]

84. I gotta tell ya, right now, today, I don't see a front runner I would be commited to work for

I think Dean's got the right idea and to work for the party and for local and state candidates seems a much better - and right now, more satisfying - use of my time.

Yeah, you bet your beanie babies I'll vote for the Democrat. But where I work is my business.

[trayted]

68. Other. I will vote for every other office but President. The Dem establishment does not own me.

It's been common knowledge since before she announced she was running that the Dem establishment and the "bigs" wanted her nominated. Well, I can't stand the political "elite," and I'm not supporting anything they try to force feed me.

[HughMoran]

74. So you are essentially supporting a Republican

Don't believe it?

Look how few votes would have ensured Gore's win in 2000.

[Dr Fate]

75. It's not really a problem as long as we just make sure we dont nominate Hillary.

None of the far-lefties seems to be threatening to pull a DLC/Lieberman style move (See Lieberman (I) vs. Lamont (D) and what DEMS supported who for clarification) if anyone but Hillary gets the nod.


In fairness, I could see a lot of Hillary supporters yet again pulling ANOTHER Lieberman (I) move if say, DK won the nod by some miracle.

[trayted]

86. No, you are supporting the Republicans by nominating Clinton, since that's who they want

Hillary Clinton isn't Al Gore. Gore didn't have 50% saying they wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances.

[HughMoran]

88. I support Hillary?

News to me!

You're rhetoric is lame...

[trayted]

102. I don't know who "you" support. When I said "you," it meant whoever supports Clinton

It could be considered a flame, but it could also be a catalyst for intelligent thought. Some are support Clinton just because she's a Clinton, because the media said she's a "winner", because she's female, and because she's a "Democrat."

If what I said makes someone think about the fact that the GOP would love for her to be nominated, and why they think that's the case, then I'm satisfied.

[Progressive Friend]

77. I live in a "safe state" (the last time a Democratic presidential candidate won here was in 1964)

So I'll be voting for the Green if Hillary is selected.

[Yael]

78. Wow. 40% at this point?

40% of core base DUers responding to this poll would not vote for Hillary?

I didn't think it would be anywhere near that high.

I think 'polarizing' just took on a new meaning. I highly doubt that any other candidate would elicit this response.

Those of us who are backing other candidates -- we need to get to work to make sure that their message gets out!!!

[DURHAM D]

103. Isn't this the point you hoped you could make with

your little poll? Didn't you try to phrase it just right to get this result?

Proves nothing about Hillary being polarizing here on the DU (much less in the general population). It just shows me what I have thought for a long time. We have a good number of fake progressives, freerepublic personality types and wankers that vote and post here.

[Yael]

104. Excuse me?

On other threads, people have been posting that they will not vote for her. I wanted to know why and what alternatives they were considering. Personally, I am going to be volunteering for the John Edwards campaign when it gets kicked into high gear here in PA, so I would appreciate you taking your Freeper accusations elsewhere.

On edit: correct typos. Can't type when I am pissed.

[Irishonly]

81. Absolutely

If Seymor Butz got the democratic nomination I would vote for him. The worst candidate on our side is a kazillion times better than any rethugicon.

[Smarmie Doofus]

82. It depends entirely on which Hillary is running...

... in November and, of course, who the GOP opponent is.

Will it be pro-war Hillary, or the antiwar Hillary; the pro-Murdoch Hillary, or the 'boycott Murdoch' Hillary; the 'kiss Arafat's wife' Hillary or the 'bomb Iran' Hillary?

There are just too many variables here... including Ms. Variability herself.

[mzmolly]

89. Vote for Hillary with pleasure.

And, I'm not a supporter.

[illinoisprogressive]

90. I will stay home and dream of leaving ....

[illinoisprogressive]

91. to those saying if you don't vote for her you are not a dem. sounding a little bush like????

But, I would not be a dem if she got the nomination. I will become an indie anyway.

[IndianaGreen]

93. I don't think it matters how we vote! Until we start using paper ballots, our votes will be stolen

My vote wasn't counted in 2006! I wasn't the only one! There was a rash of failures in the optical scan machines, most of which were in Democratic districts. My ballot was put in a bin that was stuffed with other optical ballots, to be scanned later that day after the machines were fixed or a replacement machine was used.

To this day, I don't think my ballot was counted!

Ohio 2004: where is the outrage from the DNC?

Florida 2000: we are still blaming Nader instead of seeing how Florida was stolen outright by Jeb Bush.

What about 2008? I have zero confidence in our election officials!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

94. I'll definitely vote for her.

She's not my favorite choice, but she'd be light years better than any of the neandertal Republican candidates.

[lojasmo]

105. Vote for all the downticket democrats.

Don't know if i can vote for her. I was somehow able to spew a vote for Kerry, though...It's likely I'd vote for Clinton.

[Colobo]

106. With Barack Obama as our presidential candidate, we will all win.