Bill Nelson reiterates his threat to take Howard Dean and the DNC to court.

[madfloridian]

And the co-chairs of Hillary's campaign chime in at First Read.

I swear to God, I hope the DNC Rules Committee sticks to its guns tomorrow and tells Florida where to shove its threat.

Florida ups the ante

The day before the Democratic National Committee may level sanctions against Florida for moving up its primary to Jan. 29, Florida Democrats threatened legal action against the DNC if the state is punished and said the DNC would, in effect, “disenfranchise” Florida voters.

“If the DNC sanctions Florida, then some of us on the Florida congressional delegation may ask an appropriate legal venue to determine whether or not a political party’s rules can supercede someone’s right to vote,” said Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) on a conference call with reporters. Nelson admitted, though, he did not know what their legal argument would be or to which court they could appeal.

Nelson also said he proposed a compromise to DNC Chairman Howard Dean twice, as recent as a month ago in a face-to-face meeting he described as cordial, that the other states all move up their selection contests by seven days to maintain the nominating order.

Florida can't move its date, Nelson said, because it's set by law, adding that there will absolutely be a Jan. 29 Florida primary. Nelson repeated his charge that stripping Florida of its delegates would render the state’s Jan. 29th vote a “beauty contest.” Rep. Alcee Hastings said it wouldn't be a beauty contest; it would be an "ugly contest."

Nelson, Hastings and Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz added that they were surprised to learn the DNC would level sanctions. But the DNC has long been warning of sanctions if Florida moves up.

They did not know? The DNC has said from the beginning that they would do this.

In a post by the FDP staff at Daily Kos...it seemed clear they are in communication with the Republican Party here. Naive stupid little me...this part never occurred to me.

"And to be clear, it would be the DNC that would put itself in the position of being in a court venue. Again, Florida has several counties covered under the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Would you rather Democrats bring up the potential for legal action now? Or let the Republicans come up with that idea later? It would be terribly unfortunate if the DNC issued the sanctions, and the Republican Party ended up being the one to stand up for the Voting Rights Act. This is a very serious concern that the FDP is not comfortable with.

-FDP Staff"

They don't seem to be aware or care that the DNC has the Election Protection plan going into effect. They seem utterly in disconnect from reality.

[madfloridian]

1. The "appropriate legal venue" at federal level....the office of Alberto Gonzales.

How rich is that? Their aides had to agree with me, though they were rather embarrassed.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Gotta love Florida. nt

[PATRICK]

3. After what happened

to Janet Reno in the primary you have to think this enthusiasm for an early Florida influence might logically derive from both state party leaderships wanting a particular candidate to benefit from yet another trip down Diebold lane(actually a multiple choice fraud environment). Or they could be that genetically naive. These sudden rushes for reform or local power can't take place in fits and groups especially by those with recent incredible poll problems. That goes for the equally perilous"good" idea of apportioning electors outside the winner take all scheme. If everyone agrees it is reform. If the usual suspects change the rules it is just another golden opportunity for GOP rigging.

[meegbear]

4. It's says "egal action against the DNC " ...

you post implies that he's only suing Howard and not the DNC organization.

[madfloridian]

5. I changed the subject line, but the whole post makes that clear.

I did to make you happy.

[meegbear]

7. Thanks!

Just suing a person and an organization are different and it should be known that legal action is being brought upon the entire organization as opposed to one person.

[William769]

6. For the rights of the Voters.

I Hope it goes to court!

[madfloridian]

8. It will. The big money people will make sure.

Glad it makes you so happy to be spun like a top.

[William769]

9. I know you are from Florida as well as I am.

Once before I die, I would like my vote to mean something. But hey, thats just me.

[madfloridian]

10. It would have meant just as much or more in February as in January.

That's the funniest and saddest part of this spin...the "disenfranchisement".

If they had left the primary where it was...they would have lost no delegates.

Sometimes I think certain Florida folks think the rest of us are stupid.

[William769]

11. Time will tell.

[madfloridian]

13. Even The Nation is calling it all for Florida.

The big money, the power, the legal threats by Democrats who won't bother to preserve our rights not to wiretapped and won't say the war is wrong...

They will win. It is like trampling us all over again.

Bill Nelson has the power of the state and the congress behind him.

I feel that this is probably the moment that I saw the party for what it really is without any doubt...a machine that just rolls over the rest of us.

[jmp]

16. Great ... then let Iowa, NH, SC & Nevada vote in February ...

We will happily sacrifice and go first.

[cobalt1999]

44. I've been looking at this too.

I've come to the conclusion that the DNC should back down because (1) I don't think they can win a court battle over this, and (2) the image of disenfranchising voters is one they can't afford.

Basically, if the DNC sanctions violate federal law or supersede state laws, then why would anyone want to live under them?

I too want Florida to have a chance to vote early and if it causes a free for all, I'm okay with that over the current system.

[madfloridian]

47. Bring Gonzales's office into it. Ok with that also?

.

[cobalt1999]

49. I don't think the DNC will take it that far.

1) They don't really have a leg to stand on, and
2) It's political suicide.

Besides, I don't think the DNC should be controlling this...this is a state responsibility and the DNC shouldn't even try to take away the states rights to choose when to hold elections.

I prefer anarchy or all states going at once to the current situation.

[madfloridian]

50. I prefer Gonzales V Dean.

I am amazed today.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. I was under the impression that it was the Republicans who...

controlled the issue and moved the primary up for their own reasons.

If so, why are the local Democrats getting pounded over this?

(And I don't doubt we'll soom bwe seeing Christmas primaries in New Hampshire if this nonsense doesn't stop-- I suspect it's really a conspiracy to kill the whole primary concept)

[madfloridian]

14. The Democrats voted for and pushed it as well.

They are trying to make a new bogeyman in Dean and the DMC.

They will win. They have the big money.

The Florida Democrats spun and falsified, and they won.

A lawsuit will hurt everyone and bring the attorney general's office into our party's business.

[jmp]

15. "And the co-chairs of Hillary's campaign ..."

Nice hit piece.

And why should Florida get to vote anyway? Just let Howard Dean hijack the nomination process.

[madfloridian]

17. Make that two co-chairs and an endorsee. And a leaning.

Of course we all know who will win. Big money and big power always win.

But at least Dean will know he stood for other states who are being bullied.

It's interesting to watch though the winner is known.

[jmp]

18. Time for Dean to hit the bricks.

He has gotten too big for his britches.

And yeah, poor Iowa & NH. Too bad that their days of dominating the process are soon to end.

[madfloridian]

20. Florida is pitting itself against small states and trying to look angelic.

Nothing you say surprises me. Bye.

[jmp]

24. Every state has a right to vote for the nominee.

Every state has a right to have their vote counted.

[MaineDem]

21. It isn't Dean

It's the entire DNC that approved the automatic sanctions for holding a primary outside of the "window".

Florida would be very important whenever they decided to hold their primary. Feb 5 is the earliest date. That would have worked well.

I'm not sure the Florida Dems worked hard enough to defeat this legislation in the Florida leg. Letting them slide by with this is slap in the face to those states that are abiding by the rules.

I will be extremely upset if there are no sanctions. I will speak with my DNC reps and make sure they know this.

[jmp]

25. "Feb 5 is the earliest date."

When do Iowa and NH vote?

Are they being sanctioned? :eyes:

[MaineDem]

26. There are 4 states in the "pre-window"

They were chosen for diversity on many levels.

The rest of the country begins its primary schedule on February 5.

So there's no need to roll your eyes just because you don't understand the process.

:shrug:

[jmp]

28. So now there will be 5 or 6 or 7 states "pre-window".

Maybe they shouldn't have made exceptions for ANY state. Then there would be no problem.

[MaineDem]

29. Why have rules if they aren't enforced?

It seems you have your mind made up. I'm only going by the rules and, in that case, FL is wrong.

I'm afraid nothing will be done to FL and the rules are then worthless. I can imagine the credentials meetings in Denver.

[jmp]

30. And "rules" that favor some states are fine by you? (nm)

...

[MaineDem]

31. All states had an opportunity to be among the four.

Some didn't chose to compete.

I actually like the idea of the four diverse states being first. None is a really big state so retail politics - where the candidate has to physically campaign - is crucial. Big money won't help in those states as much as getting out and meeting the voters will.

[madfloridian]

33. With Markos bragging on Florida's courage....we are just wasting our breath.

Markos is so proud of Michigan and Florida for being so brave.

What can one say to that?

Florida got the bloggers and The Nation on board with them.

:shrug:

[MaineDem]

34. And FL would have clout regardless of when your primary was scheduled

I'm optimistic that the "automatic" sanctions will hold up. I foresee a fight at the convention though.

[jmp]

37. Apparently not as the DNC is preparing to deny us our delegates.

Looks like Howard Dean is the new "decider".

[MaineDem]

38. No, sir or madam, Howard Dean does nor decide this

The DNC has decided. They voted on the rules last year.

The Rules and Bylaws Committee votes tomorrow on FLorida's Delegate Selection Plan. If it has a January primary in the plan it will be rejected.

Ultimately, the convention as a whole decides which delegates to seat. That'll happen in Denver.

But time will tell. I understand you don't agree with the DNC rules. Complain to your DNC members. I have made my feelings known to mine.

[jmp]

40. I guess Dean has switched to a 49 state strategy.

And I won't bother contacting DNC members as the DNC is not the governing authority. I am going to contact my State Representatives and have them look at the possibility of barring anyone but Florida's Democratic nominee from appearing on the ballot in '08.

If Dean wants to play hardball ...

[MaineDem]

41. Whatever. n/t

[jmp]

36. Diverse according to who?

All I see is 4 states wielding a disproportionate amount of influence over the nomination process.

I don't like it, and neither do many others.

Too much potential for rigging the nomination.

[GreenTea]

51. Spoken like a true supporter of the fucking DLC!

[madfloridian]

19. Actually it is good this is happening. Power plays by big guys need to out.

It may be a very good thing. Even those who are cheering Florida on right now will see it as a power play later.

They will see the true colors of Florida's Democratic leaders.

And all the connections to the Republicans in Florida, like the Cardenas lobbying thing....will come out and be seen in the light of day.

And Bill Nelson may win at the end, but he will end up not looking so very pure and pious.

I say let it begin.

[dflprincess]

22. The DNC has always dictated how national delegates are selected

and many times the DFL in Minnesota has been told it either comply with the national rules or our delegation wouldn't be seated at the convention - and everytime the DNC has won the fight. Though there have been years when we managed to drag it out until the last possible minute and occassionly got a small concession or two. Mostly I just enjoyed Minnesota being a thorn in the DNC's side.

[madfloridian]

23. Well, this time Florida got The Nation and the left bloggers on their side.

So now the attorney general....Gonzales will be getting involved thanks to Florida.

Don't worry. In the end...Bill Nelson never loses.

[William769]

32. And for that I am grateful.

[madfloridian]

35. Florida is the Big Dog.... it will win.

Bill Nelson has great power behind him. He is also part of the prayer breakfast group who have the power of right and God behind them.

[cobalt1999]

45. me too.

I like fighting for a meaningful vote over a couple of states that always get to choose our candidate. Take it to the courts.

[madfloridian]

46. Gonzales V Dean....bring it on.

A corrupt attorney general versus an honest ethical chairman.

[madfloridian]

27. If Florida had kept their primary in February...they would have lost nothing.

But they had to move it up into January so they could yell DISENFRANCISED and blame the DNC for it though the DNC followed the rules.

And they keep spinning.

Oh, gee, we all know who will win in the end....but just bring the battle for the party on and get it the hell over with early on.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/08/24/post_37.html

[dbackjon]

39. For the good of BOTH Parties - I hope Florida wins

To have Iowa and New Hampshire to ALWAYS have so much influence is assinine. Screw'em - they've had their chances, and usually fuck it up. Let them vote in May for once. I am sick and tired of all the "down-home" candidate forums in NH and Iowa that have little bearing on the rest of us.

[madfloridian]

42. Florida will win, even though they are wrong and making a power play.

I thought more people would care about the Attorney General's office being called on to play a role....especially with the utter corruption there.

But I sure did underestimate, didn't I?

Few see anything wrong with calling in the courts to play a role in the party's decisions.

And Markos is loving Florida so very much.

[jmp]

43. The Constitution doesn't mention the DNC.

"Few see anything wrong with calling in the courts to play a role in the party's decisions."

The national "party" has no Constitutional role in electing our President. The states do though.

[madfloridian]

48. Left bloggers to candidates...forget the DNC..go Florida! go Michigan!.

I need to quit thinking thoughts like which bloggers are supporting which candidates....cause I always get in bad trouble when I do that.
Let's just say some in the comments picked up on it, but most don't disagree at the those sites anymore.

It's a sudden turning on the man these bloggers supported for chairman. I believe it is power play for a certain candidate, and other posts there seem to think so also.

Jerome Armstrong at MyDD:

The candidates should blow off the DNC

Not a very encouraging article from the grassroots viewpoint.

Markos at Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/23/1236/17315

"This isn't a battle the DNC can win. So they might as well throw in the towel. They fucked up the primary calendar process by allowing New Hampshire and Iowa maintain their unfair lofty position at the expense of the rest of the 48 states and the District of Columbia. They now get to reap the results of their lack of political will and leadership.

No one said "kill IA and NH". Lots of states would've been happy to share early primary and caucus dates. Instead, they selfishly demanded to remain first."

John Nichols at The Nation.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=226348

"Even if the legal gambit fails to be advanced, or to succeed, Democrats in Florida have another card to play. Their state has in recent election cycles been a key battleground in the fall fights between Democrats and Republicans for the presidency. Florida officials know that, once Democratic and Republican nominees are chosen, they will move to take control of the national committees of the two parties. At that point, concerns about satisfying the demands of party activists on the ground in battleground states will trump any desire to punish those states for advancing their primaries.

Bottom line: Howard Dean can make all the threats he wants. But he is sitting across the table from Florida officials who are willing to call his bluff and who appear to have a better hand than the party chair. "

Any sudden turnings make me wonder.

This one is very sudden.

Even to those of us on board with primary change, it reeks of something.

[cobalt1999]

53. This isn't sudden

This has been brewing for a long time. People HATE the current setup and without states like Florida and Michigan challenging it, nothing ever changes.

The DNC needs to wake up to the fact we don't want a few DNC selected states to choose the nominees anymore.

[madfloridian]

54. Read what I wrote. The bloggers who know better are turning on the DNC

They are joining the power play against the party.

There can be change in the primaries without destroying the DNC.

Why do you think Bill Nelson is threatening them with a lawsuit?

3 guesses first two don't count.

You are having almost as bad a temper tantrum as our Florida Democrats are right now.

They are acting like whiny babies, and the bloggers who have been working with the NDN are going right along.

[cobalt1999]

56. They are going along because it is the right thing to do

Also, without doing this, nothing changes ever.

This has been going on for a long time. The DNC has yet to make any change to their "favorite states" scheudle. It's about time people rebelled.

[madfloridian]

57. You don't know about the two states added?

Oh well, then.

You, NV and SC, diverse states?

[cobalt1999]

58. Two states is not a significant change.

That's lipstick on a pig.

[GreenTea]

52. I support Howard Dean over moderate/republican voting assholes like Nelson & DLC!

both the "Nelson twins" vote with the republicans so often, they must be like Lieberman just more republican spy's....Fucks like Nelson don't have a liberal progressive bone in their body, Just a "D" behind their name, as Lieberman had....This is just more conservative corporate DLC supporting bullshit....

We should all support a great progressive like Howard Dean against moderate assholes like Nelson and the DLC!!!

[AtomicKitten]

55. Isn't Nelson a Republican?

[madfloridian]

59. Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."

Bill Nelson, who never fought for anything we asked him to fight for has finally found a great cause: Thumbing his nose at the DNC.

The Florida Democrats are not telling the whole truth about any of this. They are using words like "disenfranchise" and saying they are taking our votes away....not true.

It is amazing how they are doing it.

I think it will be a lot of fun next year at that convention.

Some more neat comments and virtual temper tantrums:

Party poised to strip delegates

The state party would have 30 days to change its plan before the sanctions would go into effect, but instead Florida's Democratic lawmakers say they will fight back. Sen. Bill Nelson told reporters in a conference call Friday that he'll lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in.

"We are quite concerned that Florida Democrats are going to lose their right to vote," Nelson said. "And of all states, we have the sensitivity of this because of what we have gone through.

Poor Bill and his sensitivity. He never utters a word about the soldiers in Iraq. I once said to him he had blood on his hands...he said it was a just cause.

And Bill doesn't even know what he could charge Dean and the DNC with:

The state's congressional delegation also sent a letter to DNC Chairman Howard Dean threatening a voting rights investigation in response to sanctions. However, national Democratic officials insist there is no legal basis to force the party to seat delegates in violation of its rules, and Nelson could not say what law the DNC would be violating or where the case could be pursued.

That's true. I know because I tried to pin them down yesterday.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz was on the call:

Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was also on the conference call and said, "We should not be disenfranchising voters based on arcane political party rules and people stamping their foot and insisting on getting their way instead of making sure that we can move forward with an election that has a united party in one of the most important states in the country."

I think the articles should note who these folks are co-chairs for. Debbie is Hillary's co-chair along with Alcee Hastings.

Debbie, who is stamping their feet, my dear?

And a word from a couple of folks at the DNC:

Tina Flournoy and Donna Brazile, who worked on Gore's campaign and served on the Rules and Bylaws Committee, said Florida has the chance to have its votes counted if it follows the rules. The DNC tried to persuade the party to hold a separate contest Feb. 5 or later, perhaps by mail, to determine which candidates would get the delegates.

"Disenfranchisement is not just an abstract term," Flournoy said. "It shouldn't be tossed around for political gain."

Very true, Tina. They are using it for personal gain.