Your view on the florida primary controversy:

[slick8790]

I'm curious to see what DUers think about this.

[jmp]

1. This isn't just about Florida.

This is about every large state that has been getting screwed so that Iowa and New Hampshire can decide which candidates are still in the race by the time we get to vote.

Iowa, NH & Howard Dean can all go to blazes as far as I'm concerned.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

4. I agree (NJ). No prez candidate comes here during the primaries while they are in IA/NH nearly 24/7

With a few trips to SC and NV sprinkled in.

[Telly Savalas]

35. So how does Florida leapfrogging towards the front help Missourians?

[LBJDemocrat]

2. I'm conflicted

On the one hand, Florida is the state that almost always goes with big-money, media-backed candidates.

On the other hand, I'm getting tired of Iowa holding the rest of the country hostage so that the government can subsidize their fucking corn for ethanol, jacking up the prices of food for consumers as well as manufacturers of products that rely on grains. Really tired of it.

[spag68]

12. ETHANOL

Sucks as an alternative fuel. Conservation, solar pv and solar thermal are all better. Geothermal is the best.

[LBJDemocrat]

14. Yeah

And I'm afraid that the Iowa effectively has veto power over policies that would promote other alternative fuels.

[IndianaGreen]

16. In 2000, John McCain told the truth when he told Iowans that Ethanol was pork and bad for environmen

In 2007, McCain is extolling the virtues of Ethanol, as is just about every candidate from either party that is sucking up to Iowa.

I thought McCain told the truth about ethanol in 2000, and tells nothing but lies about everything now.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. In 2000 he skipped Iowa, this year he is running in Iowa so that explains it...

[IndianaGreen]

18. In one of the 2000 GOP debates, Bush called himself "an ethanol man."

Iowans ate it up!

It takes a gallon and a half of imported oil to produce one gallon of ethanol. What's wrong with this picture?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

28. Exactly. You never hear of that little fact in the corporate media nt

[Cameron27]

3. My question is why this wasn't tackled when the rules were decided

and before this was voted on?

[rwheeler31]

6. Why are you carpping now. Were you at the meeting?

[Cameron27]

10. No I wasn't at the meeting. I was asking a question.

Wasn't this all voted on, and did this issue get debated?

[cobalt1999]

8. It was tried

The party backroom committee meetings shot it down. Maybe if Florida and other states continue responding to their rank & file democrats, then those committees might be more inclined to listen and actually revamp the current "favored state" system.

Of course, the folks from Iowa and NH will fight that tooth and nail.

[Cameron27]

11. Thanks

[TheDoorbellRang]

5. Cui Bono? The Corporate donors, IMO

With this sudden urge by all these states to move up their primary date, one wonders why. It makes the already lengthy campaign season (season? more like five seasons) even longer and therefore, costlier. It will force candidates to take even more money from corporate donors, making them that much more beholden to them. Will we see the race for 2012 starting in 2009?

This whole system needs restructuring, starting with public campaign financing and continuing with real debates, not these sorry excuses for debates we have now.

[jmp]

7. Either you believe in democracy or you don't.

A tiny percentage of the population should not be able to decide the fate of Bill Richardson's campaign (to name a mid-tier candidate) before the rest of us get to vote.

It's BS pure and simple.

Who died and made Iowa and NH the gatekeepers of democracy???

[draft_mario_cuomo]

9. Amen. I thought we were the United States of America, not political colonies of Iowa and NH nt

[PurityOfEssence]

13. If you join an organization, you abide by the rules. PERIOD.

They knew full well that the party rules precluded any other primaries to be scheduled for January, and they went ahead and did it anyway. Who the fuck do they think they are? Yeah, the primary schedule is stupid, yeah it's crap to make Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina some kind of aristocracy of super-statehood above the rest of us, but those are the rules. If you want to be a part of the organization, you have to abide by the rules or live with the consequences.

If they didn't like not being one of the select group, they should have worked within their organization to change the rules; disobeying them shouldn't be tolerated.

No, I don't live there.

[jmp]

15. What country are you a citizen of?

Find me anything in the US Constitution that grants political parties the right or authority to pick our President ... or to make the rules for selecting the candidates.

I'll wait here while you look.

Howard Dean is threatening our electoral process and the validity of that process in the even of a close vote. If a candidate loses based on the disqualified delegates ... every state that voted for that candidate will be disenfranchised ... not just Florida.

Get it?

When Florida voters got screwed in 2000 ... the whole nation got screwed ... not just Florida.

The same applies here.

Howard Dean has become a criminal on par with Bush/Cheney.

[Hobarticus]

19. Breaking: Howard Dean causes cancer and makes the baby Jesus cry

Hyperbole much? Kee-rist.

[TSIAS]

21. "Howard Dean Doesn't Care ABout Black People"

Cut to Mike Myers awkward facial expressions. :sarcasm:

The whole system is kind of convoluted. IIRC, Washington D.C. actually hosts the first caucuses in the nation in early January. It doesn't mean much, but it still serves as a "beauty contest".

I don't see FL's delegates meaning much in the overall nomination picture. If all the candidates campaign there, the winner will receive credit for his success, whether or not the DNC validates the delegates.

[jmp]

27. This is criminal and I hope Charlie Crist ...

Sics the Justice Department on the DNC. That mafia needs to be put back in its place.

[PurityOfEssence]

23. The United States; please read the Constitution

There's no mention AT ALL of political parties in it.

If people join a party or a club or fraternal order or whatever, they (at least tacitly) say that they're going to abide by the rules. The current rules of the Democratic Party forbid any but these three states to have their caucuses or primaries in January.

Yes, a lot of horrible things could happen, but a lot of other things could, too.

Lest we forget, this move by Florida benefits the front-runners and those with the most money. I'm sick of people with power trying to change the rules. More marginal candidates have marshalled their resources and carefully planned their campaigns based upon the rules that all were to have respected. Don't blame Dean, blame the selfish line-cutters in the Florida Democratic Party who didn't heed warnings and BROKE THE RULES OF THEIR OWN ORGANIZATION.

You're asking all the rest of us to just sit back and "take it", and if we rebel against the egomania of a group of people, we're somehow ingrates. That's ridiculous.

Where's the decency? Where's any sense of orderliness? It's stupidly front-loaded as it is; at least SOME ability to apply the brakes should be respected, especially when this is merely an enforcement of the AGREED-UPON RULES of the organization. The fact that they're bellyaching and saying that it's too late to turn back now is their own fault.

Why the fuck do the rest of us in this country have to just suffer along and be dictated to by Florida? They broke the rules. They seem to demand the right to break the rules. To snivel that they're being put upon to be held to rules that EVERYONE ELSE grins and bears with is beyond belief. The fact that if they get away with their move it'll have huge repercussions in many of the campaigns doesn't seem to matter one whit, and that's despicable. The idea of playing victim after wreaking havoc is infantile.

Howard Dean has been wonderful for this party; his 50-state strategy has yielded enormous new pastures for us, and if a bunch of provincial power-brokers want to thumb their noses at the rest of us, they need to be reined in. If this was a problem for them, they should have addressed it LONG AGO and through the mechanisms of the party. If Florida Democrats get disenfranchised because of this, they should blame their local bosses, not the organization they've cavalierly thrown out of whack.

[jmp]

24. "There's no mention AT ALL of political parties in it."

That is correct. The individual states are the ones who empower political parties.

The rules that govern the selection of each state's electors are determined by the states. The primary process is a STATE electoral process. If it was a party process ... the DNC could switch the dates and the Florida legislature would have no say in the matter.

Get it now???

[demommom]

33. Purity : is exactly right:

I would however add ,that NO state should have been allowed to jump ahead.

[TSIAS]

20. Floridian who sides with the DNC

People like to act as if voters are being disenfranchised. Last time I checked, I was still able to vote in my '04 Democratic primary and choose the candidate who I preferred (Dean). Primaries are basically party events that disenfranchise a lot of people. Republicans could claim that the were disenfranchsed b/c they can't vote in the Dem Primary.

My biggest problem is that a big-state, early primary essentially destroys the chances of a Richardson, Biden, or Kucinich making any noise. It'll be dominated by the well-financed candidiates like Obama and Clinton. It's laughable that people are saying that Dean wants to disenfranchise the minorities -- particularly Hispanics. This coming from a state that in 2000 took all possible steps to remove blacks and Democratic leaning minorities from the voting rolls.

I guess if you trust former Governor Bush and current GOP'r Crist to ensure fair elections, then you're a lot less cynical than I am.

[jmp]

25. "My biggest problem is ..."

My biggest problem is that a big-state, early primary essentially destroys the chances of a Richardson, Biden, or Kucinich making any noise.

Oh well if large states voting will produce an outcome you don't like, then by all means lets screw them over. I mean it's not like we believe in democracy and one man one vote or anything like that.

The important thing is that you be happy. :eyes:

[demommom]

34. jmp:

It is because we believe in democracy that if Florida or any other state, wishes to change the rules,they should do it in a democratic way, by following the format of the association(DNC),not by breaking it's rules after the game has already begun. I feel Dean should have acted sooner.

[tomreedtoon]

22. I'm a Floridian who agrees to the challenge, but...

...if this were truly a fair event, the Party would randomly select the dates for each state to hold a primary. It's stupid for New Hampshire, a state whose only purpose is to hold a primary, to filter the candidates before the other states get a chance to decide. And it would be stupid for Florida to always pick a candidate.

In a truly randomized order, candidates would have to prove different qualities for the early primaries. They wouldn't have to eat the native food of New Hampshire, which is...oh, that's right, they don't really grow or make any food, do they?...well, eat whatever food is imported there and smile, and have that as the main criterion for getting votes.

And of course, this wouldn't matter to the Republicans, who have their candidate chosen long before their first primary. But it is important to Democrats...if they don't want the Republicans to pick their candidates too.

[killbotfactory]

26. They agreed to the rules, they should follow them

What they are doing is bullshit.

[jmp]

30. Are you even aware that the GOP controls the Florida legislature???

Ignoring the fact that the DNC has no authority to disqualify anyone's vote for any reason ... Are you even aware that the GOP controls the Florida legislature??? So you would support the DNC disqualifying the delegates from any GOP controlled state that chooses to move up their primary? It's like Christmas in January for the GOP as long as Howard Dean is in charge. The GOP actually gets to choose the Democratic nominee by manipulating the dates of their state primary.

Do you even understand that primaries are a state electoral function and the dates of the primary are set by the state legislature?

[killbotfactory]

36. Then they shouldn't let the GOP get away with this

[illinoisprogressive]

29. killbot is on the money. they agreed and should stand with it.

[slick8790]

31. kick...n/t

[hedgehog]

32. You need another choice in this poll:

If Florida persisits in an early primary and the delegation isn't seated (worse yet - two delegations show up!) expect a floor fight like we haven't seen in 30 years!

Florida's 210 delagates may be critical indetermining who gets the nomination. This problem is a parting gift straight from Jeb Bush!