Dems Ban Florida From Convention? What?

[DemocracyInaction]

Last night I watched Bloomburg News for a couple hours. Repeatedly they had on the bottom "ticker" this: "Dem Party Votes to Ban Florida from Convention". Would someone please fill me in. If this is true, would someone please tell me just one itty-bitty thing: When the HELL did we decide to commit suicide??!!! Sometimes, I swear, this party can drive me to drink..............

[Kagemusha]

1. It's because Florida moved the Dem primary ahead to a ridiculously early date

The state party supported the move and told the national party in a letter, knowing that the penalty for doing this and supporting it was to lose its delegates at the convention, "We're FLORIDA. What, you're actually gonna DO SOMETHING to us? Hmph! Yeah. Right. Sure you are. We dare you. We double-dare you."

And then the DNC said, "These are the rules, you yourselves agreed to them when the rules were made, you knew the penalty, we are imposing it upon you."

And everyone acts shocked.

[DemocracyInaction]

3. Insiders and outsiders and suicide

Haven't been around for a long time and came to find out about this. I hope someone hears me loud and clear............the "insiders" may no every clause and phrase and law regarding this. The public only knows that the DEMS DON'T WANT FLORIDA AT THEIR CONVENTION!! - and trust me, the Repuke vermin will sling that in the face of the 95% of Floridians who don't have a goddamn clue about this. We need to more than think outside the box in this election...we have to start crawling into the brain of M/M Average American who "don't know nuttin' and never will". This is a publicity nightmare and it WILL come back to haunt us. For Christ's sake, clean up the dirty diapers before you take the baby out for viewing by the public!

[Kagemusha]

4. What do you prefer, Iowa moving its primary to December 07?

Because that's where this is heading.

I wish the Floridians hadn't been stupid enough to push this to this point.

[jmp]

24. Why do you care when Iowa has its caucus?

Or whether it is first?

[Kagemusha]

26. Oh, let me see here. A mockery made of the entire party nomination process?

A national, no, international mockery, that there will be a nomination in the year before a November election?

The party should have some dignity.

Edit: Though personally I'd tell Iowa, if you wanna drag your primary to '07 we won't recognize it. I'd love that. But Florida broke the rules first and made no bones about it.

[question everything]

21. Or, would Democrats in Florida cut their nose to spite their face?

Will Democrats in Florida vote for a Republican, or not vote at all to punish the country and to expose us to four more years of Republican White House?

I do hope that the average M/M Democrats in Florida are more mature than their "leaders."

[Telly Savalas]

23. You're insinuating that Florida Democrats have the maturity of 4 year olds.

I hope you're wrong.

[jmp]

25. Yep

People tend to take it personally when they are told that they will sit in the back of the bus and like it.

[question everything]

28. I remember in the glory days of 60 minutes

from the 70s, when Mike Wallace would really catch crooks on film. And if any of that crooks would be a politician, his constituents would rally around him.

Voters tend to protect what's theirs, and ethics and rules be damned.

[jmp]

30. Would those be the ethics of giving Iowa & NH preferential treatment?

yeah :eyes:

[CTLawGuy]

31. if you voluntarily sit in the back of the bus, don't complain

NT

[jmp]

32. Don't complain ... Vote 4 Dean in '08

Sweet irony. :)

[CTLawGuy]

33. what do you mean by that?

NT

[jmp]

34. I mean exactly what I said ...

Come Nov 4, 2008 ... I'm casting my vote for Howard Dean.

[CTLawGuy]

38. but he's not running

Are you doing it to help the Republican win Florida...

[ccpup]

2. from what I understand

the Dems had all agreed on when everyone's Primary would be and, if any State decided to deviate from that agreed upon schedule, they would be punished with the loss of their delegates. Florida agreed to this and then decided to move their Primary and screw all the other States that had agreed to the initial plan. They broke an agreement they agreed to and now they're paying the consequences.

The Dems were trying to give some of the "smaller States" with more diverse populations a stronger say in the process and Florida -- a State known for trying to prevent minorities from voting -- apparently wasn't pleased with that.

Or at least that's how I understood the situation. If someone else can correct me or fill out any unintentional blanks, I'd appreciate it.

[Kagemusha]

5. I'll only say, people try to act like it's the Republican legislature's fault but not so

because the Dem state party fully endorsed the move and was 100% on board the whole way... not sure what role they played in initiating it but nonetheless, they were totally on board... and said so to the national party. In other words, broke the rules, said they were proud of it, and told the DNC to lick their boots.

[madfloridian]

16. It does not matter here at DU.

But I will keep trying to get the truth out.

Our state party lied about Dean and the DNC, and one of the county people suggested I was being disloyal for disagreeing.

That's how things are here.

[Kagemusha]

17. The state party has some balls to be making that claim.

I might have not been able to call them on it had I not read the kiss-my-butt letter they sent to the DNC about it... because it was posted on DU at the time.

[madfloridian]

18. Here is the threat and the full letter. and more.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/08/congressional-d.html

And here is a lot more showing that they knew exactly what they were doing.

I get very angry when my state party plays me for a fool.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1409

[Kagemusha]

19. By the way, I don't even agree with protecting Iowa's holy status...

I was afraid this might happen when the rules were set. But having set them, I really don't see what choice the DNC has.

...Except punishing Iowa and NH if they go setting primaries in '07 and stripping their delegates, or something. Not that I'd see it HERE, because of how the Florida state party's behaved badly, but I mean, if Iowa and NH threaten nuclear options in the future, it's not like I wanna choose Iowa over Florida, given a choice.

But lying about it for sympathy from DU'ers and progressives at large is just cheap.

[Kagemusha]

20. Actually, that wasn't the letter I was thinking of

That's an Aug 23 one by the Florida congressional delegation.... making all sorts of threats. Thanks though.

[flashl]

27. Were you equally miffed about FL Dem Gov race of 2006? n/t

[madfloridian]

29. What has that to do with this?

I felt like McBride was a lousy candidate, making the scene for his wife Alex who is now Florida's CFO and a good one.

I don't see a connection.

[flaminbats]

35. the DNC needs to change some outdated rules!

if New Hampshire and Iowa wish to come first..ok. but neither party should forget that state governments hold primaries, while parties select the potential delegates..except in a caucus.

the primary isn't an exclusive club or gated community. Republican primary voters shouldn't be rewarded for the actions of the Florida legislature while Democrats are penalized! IMO both party primaries should be held on the same day, otherwise turnout will be substantially lower for both parties. If New Hampshire wishes to stay first in line, then that state legislature has the responsibility to push the primary date ahead for both parties! otherwise..let Florida go first, and let voters choose whom delegates for both parties must represent at the Conventions.

[William769]

6. Dean won't have the balls to do it, he will back down.

Or the DNC will be looking for a new chair.

[Kagemusha]

7. And then we really will have Iowa primaries in 2007?

Can't wait! ..No, actually, I can...

[madfloridian]

8. Harold Ford has been suggested. Fire Dean's ass...Ford will give in to Florida

and Bil Nelson, the big boss here.

OR...better yet....let Florida be boss now.

They lied, and everyone is believing that the big bad Republicans picked on them and that Dean and the DNC took their vote away.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1409

[tkmorris]

9. It isn't Dean's decision

The decision is made by the Rules and Bylaws Committee of the DNC. Now, you might argue that Dean's influence will determine what they do, but I really can't see a complete capitulation in the cards.

[janx]

10. Right, and then the flood gates will open,

and there will be a battle for which states go first.

Right?

[William769]

11. May the best State win.

[madfloridian]

12. Here you go...it's all over the forums.

Florida tried a power play, lied about Dean and the DNC taking their votes away.

IF they had stayed with Feb. 5 all the delegates would have oounted.

BUT instead they put out the propaganda and threatened to sue the DNC.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1409

How can the mean ol' Democratic National Committee punish beleaguered Florida Democrats for the Republican-controlled legislature and governor deciding to move the presidential primary so early in violation of committee rules?

Puh-lease.

Party chairman Howard Dean might swallow that if a Democratic state senator, Jeremy Ring, hadn't sponsored the original bill moving the primary to Jan. 29. Besides, Dean knows he lobbied early on to get Democrats to back off the bill and folks like House Democratic leader Dan Gelber blew him off publicly.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/07/dean-to-florida.html

Might the Democratic National Committee foist on America's biggest battleground state some kind of unwanted delegate selection plan for the presidential nominating process? The party rules allow that scenario, which sounds possible from Howard Dean's comments the other day to a South Carolina TV reporter.

Remember that the DNC carved out Jan. 29 for South Carolina to hold the first southern Democratic primary, only to have Florida leaders schedule the Sunshine state for the same day. Fl Democrats are trying to keep a straight face as they blame it all on Florida Republicans.

Here's what Dean told News Channel 15 in Myrtle Beach: "Well, the Florida drama is not over yet. So I think South Carolina will be well represented. ... My understanding is that South Carolina is not likely to move and that Florida is going to have a different electoral procedure than they think they’re going to have."

And here are several summaries to help you figure out that the Florida power play was based on lies and propaganda against Dean and the DNC.
Only one person voted yes for Florida's delegates to count....he was from Florida.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

For a state that already has so much sway over presidential elections, and which has such a horrendous track record of verifiable electoral infrastructure, a decision to leap ahead of virtually all other states in the primary calendar can only be characterized as a power grab in the tradition of Bush, DeLay, and Gingrich.

It is also almost certainly an attempt to stick it to Howard Dean of the DNC, whose new primary calendar finally allows minorities such as Latinos, African-Americans and union members to have a say in determining the next president, which is an anathema to Florida’s elites who have done everything in their power over the past decade to make sure that those groups are not even allowed to vote. The move is also a huge boon to the frontrunning campaigns of Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton, both of whom have tremendous advantages in Florida. If Florida is on January 29th, it will be extremely difficult to see a path for any other candidate as long as Clinton or Giuliani manage to come within a close second in New Hampshire. As I type this, that is a criteria both candidates meet quite easily.

Florida got to the media and spun. The DNC quietly did what it had to do.

[iamjoy]

14. How Can You Call It A Good Thing

how can any Floridian think it is a good thing that our primary won't matter?

I planned to be out there in December and January canvassing, phone banking - everything to get support for my primary candidate on election date. While I was at it, I also planned to try and persuade Democrats to vote against the stupid property tax plan Crist and the Republicans want as well as other ballot measures slated for January 29. Now, am I going to be wasting my time? Are voters going to feel like it isn't worth their while to vote in a primary that won't count? Some municipalities also moved their elections to January 29. What does it mean for our candidates in these races if Florida Republicans have more luck with their national party than we had with ours?

If the state party is all in the wrong, but Howard Dean can't come up with an e-mail explaining the DNC decision and sending it to Florida voters, how can we trust him to effectively communicate our message to the people of the country? I've been receiving e-mails from the state party on this, but not the DNC.

I don't really care who was wrong and who was right - the state or national party. All I can say is if they can't come to an agreement that doesn't disenfranchise Floridians, I will consider leaving the Democratic party. I'm not sure I want to be a part of any party that has so little respect for voters.

[madfloridian]

15. If I have to tell you why telling the truth really does matter..

then our country has really gone down the wrong road.

After all I wrote...after all I explained they were not telling the truth....that the Florida Party took our votes away on purpose by moving up past February...after all that if you don't care about truth..

then I have nothing else.

[iamjoy]

22. Of Course The Truth Matters

But how is losing our delegation a good thing?

[madfloridian]

13. Fishwrap...I don't usually quote. But tonight after the propaganda

I will quote them.

It is hilarious and very true. And the Florida Dems deserve it for making up a bunch of spin and trying to hurt the DNC. Well done...Washington Times. You said more than I have been willing to say.

http://video1.washingtontimes.com/fishwrap/2007/08/fla_dems_blame_gop_for_dnc_act.html

"Fla. Dems blame GOP for DNC action

The Democratic National Committee votes to strip Florida of its convention delegates and who do Florida Democrats blame?

Republicans!

Florida Democrats said they blame the Republican-controlled state legislature for slipping the early primary into a new law that also creates a paper trail for electronic ballots.

"So they put it in there knowing full well that Democrats could not vote against a paper trail," Karen Thurman, the Florida Democratic Chair, said. Translation: "We are so stupid, it's unfair to hold us responsible for our votes."

Purple Avenger had great sport with this:
"When FL moved its primary to January 29, the vote in the FL legislature was 115:1 for doing so. Where I come from this is known as "strong bipartisan support" ...

Here's the press release from Gov. Crist's signing ceremony in West Palm Beach May 21.

He was joined at the bill signing ceremony by Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Arthur Anderson, Congressman Robert Wexler, bill sponsors Representatives David Rivera (R-Miami) and Dorothy Hukill (R-Port Orange) and Senators Lee Constantine (R-Altamonte Springs) and Jeremy Ring (D-Margate) and other legislators ...

Jeremy Ring...hmmm...where have I heard that name before??

Oh, he introduced the bill to move up the primary. And the Democratic party leaders here have tried everything to get Adam Smith to recant on his stories.

Dean, Adam Smith, and blaming Republicans
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1409

Methinks our Democrats got hoisted on their own...propaganda. They owe the DNC an apology instead of a lawsuit.

I have seen two right wing blogs see through this perfectly well and understand the DNC did the right thing. They even sympathized with Dean for being battered over something to obvious.

Will look them up.

I would never have bothered to stand up as much for this issue as I have except that I was told that I was hurting the party by questioning their actions. It was by a local leader who never questions anything.

Angry, a little. But since Florida is not being honest, and I am being hushed....I will speak up.

[madfloridian]

36. Read this. Florida DID go along.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

[Capn Sunshine]

37. About damn time

Florida has been a problem for what, 12 years now? Half the "democrats" there are actually republicans anyway. Either way, they seem to exist lately just to give Howard Dean a hard time.

If they can't figure out how to play this game, if they won't abide by decisions from party leadership, what do they expect?

[CTLawGuy]

39. do you remember

that the illegal "butterfly ballot" was designed by a Florida Democrat?

It was illegal because Florida law requires that the candidates appear in the order in which their parties finished in the previous year's gubernatorial race. The butterfly ballot had Bush first and Buchanan second, and Gore third, even though the Democrat finishd second in the previous gubernatorial race.