"the choice to scapegoat Sen. Clinton is unfathomable" - Keith Olbermann

[MethuenProgressive]

Perhaps KO's best ever commentary:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19859124/

"The Bush administration has opened this Pandora’s Box about Iraq. It has found its scapegoats: Hillary Clinton and us."

"This, sir, is your war. Sen. Clinton has reinforced enemy propaganda? Made it impossible for you to get your ego-driven, blood-steeped win in Iraq? Then take it into your own hands, Mr. Bush. Go to Baghdad now and fulfill, finally, your military service obligations. Go there and fight, your war. Yourself."

Bravo, KO!

:applause:

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Senator Clinton *has* reinforced enemy propaganda

Every single time she votes in favor of Bush's war, every single time she hands over billions in taxpayer dollars to fund Bush's war, every single time she "supports the troops" by promoting the agenda of their mutilation and death in Bush's war... she is reinforcing Bush's propaganda. And Bush is the biggest enemy this country has faced since the American Revolution.

[Bitwit1234]

2. SO they only need ONE vote for everything

and that vote is Hillary Clinton. Get real.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. I never said she was the only one n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

3. "If George Bush won't end this war, I will." -HRC

That's supporting Bush?
Looks like Bush isn't the only one scapegoating Sen. Clinton.
:shrug:

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. "New military tactics in Iraq are working" -- HRC

The "surge" which has led to even more deaths and further proves the moral and policy bankrupcy of Bush's War... is working. How is that not promoting enemy propaganda?

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3463624">this thread.

Edited to include DU thread.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. Your claim has been debunked by Media Matters (stay current, will ya?)

Union Leader editorial falsely claimed Clinton said "troop surge in Iraq is working"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200708240008?src=other

Summary: A New Hampshire Union Leader editorial falsely claimed that "Sen. Hillary Clinton said Gen. David Petraeus' troop surge in Iraq is working." In fact, Clinton said that changed tactics -- "particularly in Al Anbar province" -- are "working," not the "surge." The editorial added that Clinton "previously (in March and again in May) noted the surge's successes"; while Clinton has previously acknowledged progress in Al Anbar, that progress reportedly began months before the "surge" did.

[MethuenProgressive]

13. :cricket noises:

:eyes:

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. How silly of me to do research and give an informed, thoughtful response n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

18. after post 6, I wasn't expecting "research" or "informed, thoughtful"

Sorry if I was short with you regarding your echoing of the long since debunked "Clinton says surge is working". It just shows how the smear gets headlines, and the correction gets ignored.
I saw that whole speech on C-Span (not just the snippet passed around DU). She really stood up for our vets. I honor her for it.

[TechBear_Seattle]

14. I sit corrected about the quote

I avoid the MSM on the weekends, so apologies for not having noticed that the proper context was given rather late on a Friday afternoon.

That does not change her previous votes or comments, however.

[GeorgeGist]

23. Stay current will ya ...

Hillary was engaging in triangulation ... that's the 'secret of the Clinton success'.

[MethuenProgressive]

28. Yeah... welfare reform, tax cuts for the middle class and balanced budgets.

That triangulation shit really sucked, didn't it? :eyes:

[madison]

9. Obama also voted FOR every Iraq war funding bill until ...

Barack Obama -- whatever his views on the Iraq war before he became a senator -- voted FOR every Iraq war funding bill that came along in the senate until the last one, which BOTH he and Senator Clinton voted AGAINST.

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. See post #5 n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

21. Clinton & Obama = same Iraq voting record.

I'd say most anti-Clinton/pro-Obama DUers don't know that. Good point, Madison.

[wyldwolf]

4. Keith Olbermann is steadily losing points on DU for doing what he always does - telling the truth.

[durrrty libby]

8. Anytime KO shows people how idiotic they are, rather than learn from their

mistakes, they throw him off the pier. :hangover:

[mod mom]

10. This was from July 17-before her recent comments/gaffes.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. What "comment/gaffe? The "surge"? It's been debunked.

Union Leader editorial falsely claimed Clinton said "troop surge in Iraq is working"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200708240008?src=other

[mod mom]

24. Here's one:

Hillary's Huge Gaffe

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 12:05:58 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
I have to completely agree with the Netroots "establishment" on this:

This is, I think, a disaster:
"It's a horrible prospect to ask yourself, 'What if? What if?' But if certain things happen between now and the election, particularly with respect to terrorism, that will automatically give the Republicans an advantage again, no matter how badly they have mishandled it, no matter how much more dangerous they have made the world," Clinton told supporters in Concord. "So I think I'm the best of the Democrats to deal with that," she added.
Two points in response. The first is that I think the Democrat best positioned to deal with GOP political mobilization in a post-attack environment is going to be the one who isn't reflexively inclined to see failed Republican policies resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans as a political advantage for the Republicans.
For the first time in quite some time, Hillary sounds like the DLC and Mark Penn. This is a huge gaffe. Obama, Edwards and all the rest will pounce on this.



http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/8/24/13558/7882



Policy Failure: Good for the GOP?

24 Aug 2007 10:13 am
This is, I think, a disaster:
"It's a horrible prospect to ask yourself, 'What if? What if?' But if certain things happen between now and the election, particularly with respect to terrorism, that will automatically give the Republicans an advantage again, no matter how badly they have mishandled it, no matter how much more dangerous they have made the world," Clinton told supporters in Concord.

"So I think I'm the best of the Democrats to deal with that," she added.
Two points in response. The first is that I think the Democrat best positioned to deal with GOP political mobilization in a post-attack environment is going to be the one who isn't reflexively inclined to see failed Republican policies resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans as a political advantage for the Republicans.
The other is that I think there's a pretty clear sense in which the further one is from Bush's Iraq policy, the easier it is politically to say that the failures of Bush's national security policy should be blamed on Bush's failed policies. Obama has a straight shot ("this is why we should have fought al-Qaeda like I said") and Edwards (and Matt Yglesias) has a straightish one ("this is why we should have fought al-Qaeda like I think in retrospect") whereas I'm not 100 percent sure what the Clinton message would be. Most of all, though, I think the politics of national security call for a strong, self-confident posture that genuinely believes liberal solutions are politically saleable and substantively workable, not the kind of worry-wort attitude that says we need to cower in fear every time Republicans say "terror."

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/08/policy_failure_good_for_the_go.php

[MethuenProgressive]

26. Excellent comment!! Well done, Sen. Clinton!!

"But if certain things happen between now and the election, particularly with respect to terrorism, that will automatically give the Republicans an advantage again, no matter how badly they have mishandled it, no matter how much more dangerous they have made the world," Clinton told supporters in Concord. So I think I'm the best of the Democrats to deal with that," :applause:

And, of course she is. That's your "gaffe"?

[mod mom]

25. Here's another from Juan Cole: Hillary Develops Foot in Mouth Disease

Thursday, August 23, 2007
Hillary develops Foot in Mouth Disease on Dumping al-Maliki

PM Nuri al-Maliki responded to Senator Carl Levin's (D-Michigan) call for him to be unseated, and Bush's failure to support him on Tuesday by unwisely getting hot under the collar and saying he can find other friends in the world to support his endeavor. I predicted that Levin's unwise and inappropriate comment (in a conference call with Tel Aviv!-- Americans have no clue about Middle Eastern politics) would elicit an angry response. Levin managed to make it look as though he were ordered by the Israeli government to see al-Maliki gotten rid of because he was making economic deals with Syria (thus strengthening the latter). I underline that such an interpretation is unfounded, but that is how many in the region see it. Levin is usually sure-footed and careful on Middle East issues, including especially Iraq, so I can't understand why he wants to appoint himself secretary of state all of a sudden.

The serial episodes of unwisdom are lengthening and feeding on one another. Now Hillary Clinton has urgedthat al-Maliki be unseated.

But as Farah Stockman of the Boston Globe and Damien Cave of the NYT point out, it may not be easy for parliament to dump al-Maliki. And, Senator Clinton should be more careful about this sort of thing. Here's a scenario: al-Maliki survives and is PM in January 2009, and Hillary is inaugurated as US president. She now has to deal with him in arranging for an orderly withdrawal of US troops. She needs him, depends on his sway with Shiite militias to have them avoid harassing our troops on their way through the Shiite south to Kuwait. And he should put himself out to help her at that point. . . why?

-snip

http://www.juancole.com/2007/08/hillary-develops-foot-in-mouth-disease.html

[MethuenProgressive]

27. You think Bush's puppet al-Maliki is doing a good job???????????

"Hillary Clinton has urged that al-Maliki be unseated"
That's your other "gaffe"??
Bush's puppet should be IN JAIL, not in the Presidential compound inside the Green Zone!!

[KaptBunnyPants]

29. The criticism of Maliki is that he is not enough of a puppet.

He won't impose the theft of Iraqi oil law. A law opposed nearly unanimously across Iraq by nearly all Iraqis, but supported by a nice little bipartisan coalition here at home. For Hillary to pretend to be anti-war while advocating for the spoils of Iraq to be put up for no-bid contracts is worse than a gaffe, because a gaffe is unintentional. This is the act of an imperialist power ruling one of it's colonies by fiat, and Hillary knows it but she also knows that US TV news won't cover this story, so she expects to get away with it. But they know about it in Iraq, and if you think platitudes from a Democrat are going to convince Iraqis to allow us to take their oil without fair compensation, you haven't been paying attention these past 4 years.

[MethuenProgressive]

30. Interesting perspective, KaptBunnyPants.

You say "Hillary's pretending"?
"If George Bush won't stop this war, I will." - HRC
I'll take her at her word.

[KaptBunnyPants]

32. I hope she means it.

But any peaceful outcome will require abandoning the attempt to privatize Iraq's oil resources, and the last I heard she is still defending that proposal. I don't say these things out of hatred for Hillary, I strongly opposed this forced privatization long before Hillary said anything about it. To have her come out and not only support the Hydrocarbon act but say that it's passage is required as part of our mission in Iraq was difficult to hear from the leading Democratic candidate.

[dodger501]

16. This question is not for anyone in particular

I don't post here as much as most of you and I am sure this has been asked before, but wtf is going to happen around here if Sen. Hillary is the Dem nominee? The vitriol against her is a bit much to take. I'm just saying . . .

[MethuenProgressive]

17. I wonder the same thing, Dodger.

I, for one, am backing our nominee, no matter who it is.

[wyldwolf]

19. in that scenario, those who cannot contain their vitriol will be booted off the boad...

...some will, no doubt, go start their own discussion forums like they did in 2004 where the biggest topic of discussion will be what whores people on DU are.

[ProSense]

20. That was a great commentary by KO

Still, we're choosing a candidate in the Democratic Party primary. Bush isn't in the running for the Democratic party nomination.

In fact, Senator Kerry stood up and defended Clinton in July. I wish I could say he was returning the favor. He's a great man!

[MethuenProgressive]

22. Great commentary indeed. Especially this:

"This, sir, is your war. Sen. Clinton has reinforced enemy propaganda? Made it impossible for you to get your ego-driven, blood-steeped win in Iraq? Then take it into your own hands, Mr. Bush. Go to Baghdad now and fulfill, finally, your military service obligations. Go there and fight, your war. Yourself." - K.O.

One voice in all of MSM... That's guts, that's what that is...

[MadHound]

31. I like KO, but it has been obvious for a long while that he's stumping for Hillary

Sadly, it is effecting his objectivity.

Hillary didn't start this war, but she certainly helped enable it, against the wishes of her constituents. In addition, she has continued to support the war in both word and deed until quite recently when she found it politically expedient to suddenly turn dovish.

Frankly I don't trust her on a lot of things, including the war. I fear that once in power she will simply change her position again, once more backing the war.

One of the many reasons I won't vote for her.

[MODemocrat]

33. Thanks to KO for putting the chicken Bush in his place

I'm very weary of people using Hillary for their own personal vendetta. I have knowledge of the
Senators who signed onto Bush's lies and deceit; and It's my belief they did so in good faith; not
knowing what liars were lurking in the Bush Administration. Our hindsight is always much greater than our foresight. :toast: GO KO.