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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:43 AM
Original message
Why the time is NOW to take a stand against the DLC
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 11:44 AM by Totally Committed
I have been at a loss to explain why I have chosen this election to finally draw a line in the sand, and refuse to cross it. I'm so emotional and angry it, in fact, that when I try to explain it, I go on forever, and mostof the time, in circles. But, as I was researching my weekly anti-DLC post, I found the explanation below, and had a welcome moment of clarity. I decided to share it with you.

These are mostly words taken from The Trouble with the DLC, by Glenn Smith. Arranged this way, they are the most comprehensive explanation of how the DLC has trapped all Democrats into voting for their candidates and their agenda.

The DLC has the money, and thanks to the method below, the Congressional and Senate support (as if we couldn't tell, from the lack of representation we have received from those we've elected...) to bypass the Progressive (read: LIBERAL) populist movement growing in this Party. It is why Carville attacked Dean after the stunning success of Dean's 50-State strategy in the 2006 elections. It is why Al From has attacked MoveOn and Michael Moore, and all who support them. And, it is why our Presidential nomination ticket is top-heavy with DLC shills.

Here is how the DLC has virtually taken control of this Party:

:graybox: Most of their "message"is delivered to voters in the course of elections, not between elections. That takes a good deal of money. They have money. So their movement aimed at influencing these messages, making sure no alternative visions or values are discussed.

Hence, the decline in the national and state Democratic parties, and any semblance of a progressive infrastructure. Their monopoly on message was achieved at the very same time the Right was building a message machine -- think tanks, radio shows, magazines, local grassroots networks -- that was all about delivering message and influencing the opinion environment before election seasons ever arrived.


:graybox: Their campaign model intentionally inverts the logical plan, in which you would maximize your base vote and get just enough votes from outside the base to win.

Cynically, the DLC wants to win with just enough base voters and the largest possible number of votes from outside the base. With this "centrist" strategy, the base gets little mail and a few GOTV phone calls, the "swing voters" are the ones who get messaged. The development of so-called "coordinated campaigns" grew out of and advanced this strategy. Coordinated campaigns were pioneered by shrewd strategists in the South. Using efficiency as an excuse, the strategists developed coordinated efforts in which candidates for statewide office would pool resources to pay for base voter programs. These programs were usually light on message. It was all "get-out-the-vote" and very little "we stand with you for these values." Aware that white voters in the region were bolting the Democrats in the wake of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts, the plutocrats wanted to reassure white voters that the Democrats remained loyal to their interests. The bulk of campaign money -- television ads for instance -- were targeted to more affluent, white audiences.


:graybox: There are unmistakeble consequences to this strategy:

(1) Progressive base voters, especially in African-American, Latino, and other disenfranchised communities, were abandoned when it came to Democrats voicing their values. Democrats could appeal to voters in the so-called middle with technocratic policies, promises of competence, and wonkish mumbo jumbo that either:

(a) avoided values altogether, or
(b) appealed straight to the "authoritarian strict father" side of white suburban voters.

Example: Crime. The industrial authoritarian "Democrats" promised crime-fighting sprees that would even embarrass Republicans. Forget the root causes of crime are things such as inescapable poverty, illness, crumbling schools, and the disappearance of hope.

(2) Another consequence is the meek response to GOP voter suppression. These "Democrats" seldom challenged the Right's voter intimidation and suppression efforts, including the parade of police that prowled polling places in minority areas, phone banks into black precincts that gave incorrect polling locations or threatened arrest for those who might vote in the wrong place. There was that now-famous felon-purge of the voting rolls, used by Karl Rove in Texas in 1982. It had to be withdrawn after a non-felon, very white candidate turned up on the list.

(3) Little concern for the progressive base. A growing progressive base was viewed as a threat to the industrial authoritarian "Democrats" for the same reason it threatened the GOP. Also, fears of being painted by Republicans as the party of Civil Rights made the industrial authoritarians exaggerate their distance from the true heart of their party. As time went on, of course, their strategy became a self-fulfilling prophecy. It got harder and harder to boost turnout among minorities. Who could blame such voters? No one was listening to them, no one was speaking to them. If you want to have some fun, get a member of the Democratic consultant class to honestly tell you how many African American polls or focus groups they have conducted relative to their opinion research among the so-called "swing voters."

Importantly, this is why we need to make a stand now. Their influence and negative effect on this Party will only grow as their numbers increase within elected office. We've let it go too far for it not to be a bloody and awful process to rid ourselves of their perniciously collusive actions and votes, their unfathomable aherence to "bi-partisanship", even in the face of total deceit from the other side, and their filthy corporate money.

Final excerpt from the article:



At the Rockridge Institute, we look for better ways of expressing progressive values, but we also analyze various reasons for the dominance of conservative values in the political sphere. Our work is not partisan, but the partisan structures that affect expression of core democratic values must be examined. There is no doubt a critical reason is that the industrial authoritarians used their election-cycle monopoly of message to erase messages that spring from recognition of our social responsibility for one another, for the maintenance of an empowering government that protects while allowing every citizen a chance at flourishing. There was no egalitarian messaging from Democrats because those in charge of the messaging were not egalitarians.


The rise of the progressive movement in the early years of the 21st Century challenges this monopoly. The movement is listening to progressives of all kinds and colors, and driving new messages of hope between and right through election cycles. MoveOn, Huffington Post, DailyKos, new think tanks such as Rockridge, growing local and state progressive organizations: all of them influence the opinion environment outside the old monopolized vehicles.


And a funny thing is happening. The core values of progressives are appealing to Americans of all kinds. It turns out that many of those so-called swing voters share these core values. They were longing to hear them expressed just as those formerly identified as the core progressive base.


Hence the DLC's vicious attempts to discredit the movement. And that's what they want. They don't seek to win an argument over policy. They seek to destroy the credibility of their opponents and restore their message monopoly. If they don't, they may face the creation of truly universal health care, for instance. And then what in the world will their friends in the insurance industry do? Why, they won't have the money to keep the industrial authoritarians in power.

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1235




TC
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. So Obama, Wall Street's favorite Democrat, can commandeer their "unity" position?
:shrug:
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. He is making a huge mistake in doing so.
If he persists in this insistence on "bi-partisanship" and "unity", he'll be crossed off my list as surely as HRC, Richardson, and Dodd have been.

TC

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. So, shouldn't you be taking a stand against Obama? He's out DLCing the DLC
I mean, it ain't Hillary collecting all that Wall Street money and cozing up to the GOP is it?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I'm not in the Obama camp, and have said it's increasingly unlikely that I ever will be.
Draft_Mario_Cuomo is doing enough "anti-Obama" duty for about a dozen people, so I'm not very much missed.

TC


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. I understand, but where are your lofty anti-Obama posts? He's out DLCing the DLC.. certainly he ...
... deserves an OP from.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. He's not "out-DLC-ing" the DLC, but he's too moderate for sure.
Mario writes enough "anti-O" OPs.

I prefer to attack the root cause.

TC
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Jeez, ww is rallying support to trash Obama.
unbelievable
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. ...
:crazy:

Don't make direct eye contact and you'll be fine. Just back away slowly.


LOL! :hi:

TC
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. *
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 12:30 PM by AtomicKitten
:spank:

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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
122. Great Advice
K&R this post! :D
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
53. Why can't they extoll the benefits of the DLC-I wonder?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. There are BENEFITS of the DLC????
:sarcasm:

You hit the nail on the head! There ARE none, are there?

TC
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Unless you support the corporate agenda that is destroying this nation.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. I hear THAT!
TC
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. So the DLC is the root cause of Obama's campaign?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Nah.... his having to compete with the Queen of the DLC for all the oxygen in the room is...
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 12:33 PM by Totally Committed


TC
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. so, being the competitor he is, he's out DLCing her.. right?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. See post # 48.
Lots of reading, but worth it, if only for your personal perspective!

TC


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. I did. I have two for you
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. Excellent article about Obama and the DLC...
Take a look. It's long but worth it.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/47/47_cover.html


He's still too moderate for my tastes, and this "unity" sh*t needs to stop, imo.

TC



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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I've read it many times... It is excellent if you suspend your disbelief for a moment or two.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Well, it was worth a try.
Cheers!

TC

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
162. Says the man who fibs every time he claims he never supported Joe Lieberman (I) LOL!!
Edited on Wed Aug-29-07 06:32 PM by Dr Fate
I know, I know- you and your organization, the DLC never supported him once he threatened to form a 3rd party if Lamont won.

You and the DLC supported LAMONT!! Right? LOL!!!

Then again,anyone who buys that also apparently believe in the tooth fairy!!!

And your great hero Harold Ford of the DLC NEVER supported him after the DEM won the primary either- You disagreed with him-right?

And then there was the one you told about the 3 Bears and Goldilocks...

LOL!!!
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
134. Uhm
Obama is not my first choice as candidate. However anyone flinging around the hated DLC thing should have to qualify exactly how 'candidate x' is either so DLC it hurts, or 'more DLC than the DLC'

By the way I really do hate the DLC as well.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. This shit again? Crying about the DLC is like SO 5 years ago...
Fluff for a poly-sci paper years ago maybe, but no longer valid. (or interesting...)
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Then, I have a suggestion for you: Put me on ignore, because your hostility will not make me stop.
And, goodness knows, I wouldn't want you to be aggravated over and over again.

It's the only chance you have to save yourself from me and the "sh*t" I will be posting.

TC


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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. "hostility"? hahahahahahahaha gasp! hahahahahahaha!
You spend hours composing an out of date hit piece, I dismiss it for what it is, and that's "hostility"?
You ain't gonna make it far in real life TC, if you spend all your time cowering under the bed.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Thank you. I knew I could count on you to be kind and understanding.
Remember what I said about the IGNORE function. We'd BOTH be happier.

TC

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
56. TC, you really feel anyone who doesn't agree with you is "hostile"?
And your fix is to "IGNORE" those who disagree? That's really sad.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
45. i wonder who that is
:shrug:
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KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
67. Good job TC.
You've been thorough so that DLC defenders have nothing but weak cries "You're pickin' on me!" in response. It's always nice to see them baffled and sputtering.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. What did she say that is so offensive?
Pretty interesting points there or does intellectualism have to be put in a grave in both parties?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Don't worry... this happens every time I post one of these anti-DLC threads.
heads explode, names are called, fingers are pointed.... par for the course.

Thanks for sticking up for me, though!

TC



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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. The name calling and lack of debate coming from many of the DLC crowd
Only shows that you're on the right track. If they can't refute the points, then perhaps they should concede. I prefer DU when it it more civilized...now it is not.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
128. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
130. Name calling is a sign of being on the defensive.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. But it is always the same people who do that
so they are easy to ignore.

I know I ignore them...they have cheer-led the same bad policies and strategies since I have been here. They have a lot of dry powder at their disposal, but that's about it.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. A perfect response. Thanks. eom
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
125. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. Many of us want to BRING THE ISSUES/POLICIES OF THE DLC TO LIGHT!
Instead of brush offs, why not attempt to extoll what it is that the DLC has to offer that attracts you to support their policies.

For me, it their free trade policies-which I find not only damaging to the American middle class but a national security issue (who is to say that those countries whoae taking over our manufacturing won't some day be our enemies. What about the lack of standards in shipping harmful products to be consumed by Americans?)

It is also their support of corporation America over the interests of the individual.

there, I listed 2. what about you?
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #36
115. Hey, mod mom....have you read
the book "End of the Line?" I think that's the title and I think the author is Lyon??? Excellent analysis about how Corporatism and their 'streamlined efficiencies' are going to kill us.

The DLC is a bunch of repugnants who were removed from their party by the american taliban...let's get rid of them.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. too bad the DLC isn't also "so 5 years ago" -- as long as they're around, they'll be deserving of
criticism and ridicule.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
62. Please take being a student of political history more
serious. The dlc/ppi is shoving their 'America first at all costs' ideology down democrats throats much like their neo-con/pnac cousins are shoving the same message down consevative rethug throats.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
65. Five years ago? C'mon. Democrats are just waking up to the harm
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 01:06 PM by higher class
done to the Party by the DLC. My wakening only got started in 2000. Every Democrat has to know about the DLC. I'll go one statement further - the DLC, for me, is THEE ARM and operative of the Bilderburg family.

I was a defender and promoter-worker of the Clintons. I still like them. I can no longer support their agenda and affiliations. We weren't all that aware in the 90's. Hillary Clinton, in receiving a platform with her Senate seat and then running for President, has revealed plenty about what the DLC is all about.

Thanks to Mad Mom for the very informative post below that provides the names of others.

The truth hurts. It hurts plenty to speak against the Clintons. But, not being happy with our leaders and knowing how they have voted, what they voted in, and what they agreed to in secret meetings (and when more people learn how they are facilitating the rush to kill Iranians for corporations), they will also know the pain of truth.

I didn't plan on writing anything like this today - but the DLC talk is not five years old. It is five minutes old and the knowledge is a heartbreaking and depressing burden, plus a balloon buster that keeps on giving - pain.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. "The truth hurts....
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 01:19 PM by Totally Committed
It hurts plenty to speak against the Clintons. But, not being happy with our leaders and knowing how they have voted, what they voted in, and what they agreed to in secret meetings (and when more people learn how they are facilitating the rush to kill Iranians for corporations), they will also know the pain of truth."

Thanks for that. Very heart-felt.

TC



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Hersheygirl Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #65
86. You have hit the nail on the head,
"THEE ARM of the the Bilderburg family," I was wondering when someone would connect the dots.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
84. Correction - this is THE shit. It RRRRRAWWWWWXXXXXX!!!!!!!
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
119. Unfortunately it's also so NEXT YEAR
I wish the DLC was boring old ground that was safely in the past.

The DLC has done untold damage to both the Democratic Party and to the basic principles of liberalism and progressive politics.

If they were a fading star, you might have some justification for your callous dismissal.

However, they have held on to thereins with their death grip combination of Corporate money, Elite support and their stranglehold on the MSM.

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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
123. Keep dreaming
yeah because like 5 years ago... um... Never mind nothing to see here, nothing to see. nope nothing to see here. move along.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
136. well, it may be passe to those who are politically adept, but it is
a message that needs constant repeating especially since the corporate media insists on shoving the dlc message and messengers down our throats. I have also noticed that even many on DU seem to cling to the dlc message by screaming "electability' at every turn.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #136
138. Thank you!
:applause:

TC
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
159. LOL! BS!!! Tell that to Joe Lieberman (I), or Ned Lamont (D).
I'm sure many people would just love it if we all thought the DLC and other DEM conservativ...er...I mean "centrists" did not still have influence on how things go.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
165. So what's your point???? Are you looking around?? Democracy is has been destroyed
and the DLC is complicit.

The only way to save democracy is to insist that the Democratic Party expel those that wish to follow Corporatism, expell DINO's. Hello!! The DLC does not represent the middle class and never has. They are elitist Democrats that do more damage than good.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
166. And another thing. You have "progressive" in your name. The DLC isn't progressive. Hello!! nm
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. The DLC convention was skipped by all of the Presidential candidates.
I think the DLC is over.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Except
This is exactly the kind of tactics that a DLCer would use and understand: skip the public event but still support them behind the scenes. Until a candidate actually comes out with a statement against the DLC or their platforms, we can assume he or she (or she) still supports them wholeheartedly.

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. But, Pres. Clinton, Mr. HRC, himself, was there and he was talking her up , bigtime...
Bill Clinton rallies centrist Democrats
Former president speaks at Democratic Leadership Council's summer meeting

By COLBY SLEDGE
Staff Writer

By the end of the Democratic Leadership Council's summer meeting Monday, attendees had overwhelmingly chosen Clinton as their presidential candidate.

William Jefferson Clinton, that is.

The former president held his audience in rapt attention for nearly an hour during his return to the centrist group for which he served as chairman before his first presidential run.

>snip

After the speech, President Clinton shook hands with a crowd that was five people deep in some places as "Still the One" by the band Orleans played over the loudspeaker. It wasn't clear whether the music represented the DLC or simply Clinton himself.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070731/NEWS02/707310357/1009


TC
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Not for those beating a dead donkey.
I wish people would try to stay current.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. Your five year old meme does't wash.
Was it 5 years ago that the DLC and their crnies took credit for the 2006 election?

Was it 5 years ago when the DLC wing of the Democratic party joined forces to get the war funded?

Was it 5 years ago that DLC senators voted for Bush to have more FISA powers?

The DLC is alive, well, and still exerting an undue amount of influence to prevent the people from having any say in the "people's party".
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. No, no, no, and don't be silly.
You're welcome!
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #47
135. A substanceless refutation
"You are right about all of your points, but you are silly"

Come back when you have something substantial to say.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. They aren't over
They are half of the Democratic caucus in the Senate, and they still vote with more with the Republicans and insist that they are the "leaders" of the party.

I will believe they are over when there numbers are less than 10% of the caucus.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. They need to be over, though, and that's why we need to persevere against them!
It is a MUST.

TC


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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R -- how can we have a third party if we don't have a second?
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
101. Now, that's a damned good question! nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
161. Funny you should ask. The DLC supported & funded a Pro-Bush 3rd party- See Joe Lieberman (I)
Edited on Wed Aug-29-07 06:17 PM by Dr Fate
n/t
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. DLC spins free trade:
Trade liberalization has also brought some powerful anxieties, of course. In some areas these are misconceptions which need calm rebuttal. The US is not 'losing' jobs overall: since the early 1990s we have added 20 million private-sector jobs; since the 1970s, 50 million. The U.S. is not 'de-industrializing' -- our manufacturing sector is growing and has a stable real-dollar share of the US and global economies. Nor are factories fleeing en masse for poorer countries: as U.S. manufacturers invested $56 billion in foreign plants and acquisitions last year, foreign manufacturers invested $67 billion here. The dismal experience of shoe and clothing industries -- where job loss has been fastest -- shows that hopes in trade barriers are false hopes.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=108&subid=206&contentid=254256

The Results of Free Trade

Three million jobs lost since 1994.
Slowed global economic growth.
U.S. trade deficit in goods hit an all-time record of $549 billion in 2003.
$20 billion reduction in trade surplus in services between 1999 and 2003 and deficit in high-tech trade.

AUTHOR :Lee is the Chief International Economist for the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO).
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. if you notice, they always insist on "calm"--which means smug, insufferable, and patronizing
like how the handlers of the the Dow scientist who TV-debated Rachel Carson circa 1962 insisted he speak "authoritatively" and wear his vestments--a lab coat--but showed himself to be a raving maniac
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
156. Wish I had a video recording of that. Do you know of one? N/T
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. I think we need to draw a distinction between American run international...
...corporations and Americans with jobs.

I also agree - How can we have third party candidates, when we don't even have a two party system?

K&R, dudes and dudettes...
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. I definitely think it's time to bid "adieu" to the DLC/Clinton '90s Democratic Party era ........
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 11:53 AM by marmar
It was like a big wild party during the prosperous '90s, but like any big wild party you wake up with a bad hangover and assess the damage.
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RFKJrNews Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
55. 90's Nostalgia
Posted by marmar:

<<I definitely think it's time to bid "adieu" to the DLC/Clinton '90s Democratic Party era ........

It was like a big wild party during the prosperous '90s, but like any big wild party you wake up with a bad hangover and assess the damage.>>

Absolutely! My thoughts exactly. The idea of another Clinton presidency after 8 years of Bush, after 8 years of Clinton, after 12 years of Reagan/Bush...feels like going backwards. It's time to move forward!

A lot of us just aren't ready for a 90's nostalgia craze just yet, at least not when it comes to our politics.

(But a lot of the music sure was good!:))

Great thread, TC - kicked and recommended!
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Thanks, m'dear!
:)

TC


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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Rock On TC!
It's not our job to be conservative. It's theirs. Even if we have done it better than them in the past...
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. DLC ties to PNAC (neocons):
Al From is founder and chief executive officer of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), a dynamic idea action center of the "Third Way" governing philosophy that is reshaping progressive politics in the United States and around the globe. He is also chairman of the Third Way Foundation and publisher of the DLC's flagship bi-monthly magazine, Blueprint: Ideas for a New Century.

As a founder of the DLC -- birthplace of the New Democrat movement and the Third Way in America -- and its companion think tank, the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI), From leads a national movement that since the mid-1980s has provided both the action agenda and the ideas for New Democrats to successfully challenge the conventional political wisdom in America and, in the process, redefine the center of the Democratic Party.

-snip

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=191&contentid=1131



Will Marshall, the head of PPI signed PNAC letters.
(Called "Bill Clinton's idea mill," the Progressive Policy Institute was responsible for many of the Clinton administration's initiatives...)
Starting right after 9/11.
***************************
Along with such neocon stalwarts as Robert Kagan, Bruce Jackson, Joshua Muravchik, James Woolsey, and Eliot Cohen, a half-dozen Democrats were among the 23 individuals who signed PNAC's first letter on post-war Iraq. Among the Democrats were Ivo Daalder of the Brookings Institution and a member of Clinton's National Security Council staff; Martin Indyk, Clinton's ambassador to Israel; Will Marshall of the Progressive Policy Institute and Democratic Leadership Council; Dennis Ross, Clinton's top adviser on the Israel-Palestinian negotiations; and James Steinberg, Clinton's deputy national security adviser and head of foreign policy studies at Brookings.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0522-10.htm

More about Will Marshall
Note the PNAC link to the left.
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah, it'd be nice to have some change...
you're far more optimistic about the chances of that happening than I am, I'm afraid.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Me? -- Optimistic?
No, most days I'm convinced there is no way to change this at all. But, I keep plugging.

The truth is my family keeps talking about putting Prozac in my afternoon tea. LOL!

TC

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. From Huff Po: "The Trouble with the DLC":
The Trouble with the DLC
Posted August 13, 2007 | 01:14 PM (EST)


Why are Harold Ford and others from the more paternalistic and condescending quarters of the Democratic Party so keen on discrediting the rising progressive movement? What have been the consequences of their obsession with "the middle"? Most importantly, how have the Tory Democrats managed to bury the expression of deep progressive values, and what should the progressive movement do about it?

For three decades, advocates of "centrism" have used their money to monopolize the Democratic message and leave the progressive base out in the cold, not spoken to. Since its founding in 1985, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) has been leading this effort. How did they pull this off? Before we get into that, let's call them what they are. "Centrist" implies conciliation, moderation, compromise. It reinforces the mistaken idea that our political life falls along a neat, linear scale from left to right. That metaphor makes the center a pretty good and safe place to be. And that it certainly is not.

The plutocratic Democrats should be referred to not as centrists, but as industrial authoritarians. Their movement was born after the Nixon re-election in 1972. They blamed that landslide on Democratic Party rules changes that audaciously sought to include Americans formerly excluded from the back rooms of power. They fronted for older corporate interests -- oil and gas, finance, insurance. The are really 19th-Century paternalists who would save us from ourselves by keeping us far from the plantation's Big House.

-snip

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-w-smith/the-trouble-with-the-dlc_b_60210.html
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Yes! This is the same article that was posted at BuzzFlash!
Really good, isn't it?

TC

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Another GOODIE-David Sirota from BIG MONEY VS GRASSROOTS:
David Sirota on the DLC:

-snip

It was the DLC’s president, Al From, who in 2001 said that his goal was to give Democrats “a game plan to try to contain the populism.” Populism, you may recall, is defined as “supporting the rights and powers of the common people in their struggle with the privileged elite.” Al From has made that vision a reality. The DLC—which has been funded by the likes of Chevron, Enron, Merck and Philip Morris—has, until recently, been extremely effective at pressuring Democrats to ignore the will of the public and capitulate to big business’s demands. The DLC has also made a public spectacle of itself by berating Democratic candidates who actually stand up for ordinary people.

PUTTING THE “MOCK” IN DEMOCRACY—To be sure, the DLC never openly admits its objectives, or even its funding sources. Instead, it bills itself as quasi grassroots, holding so-called “national conversations” in an effort to create the impression that its corporate-written agenda has some semblance of public support.

Yet the media coverage of its most recent such “conversation,” in Denver this past July, tells the real story. The New York Sun noted that the meeting focused on pondering “how to counter the netroots”—i.e., how to counter the millions of grassroots Democratic Party voters who use the Internet to advocate for a more democratic political system. Perhaps most telling of all was the Rocky Mountain News’s note that the DLC’s supposed “national conversation” at the Hyatt Regency Hotel was, in fact, “not open to the public.”

In an August Rolling Stone column, reporter Matt Taibbi recounted his interview with one DLC leader, who called anti-war activists “narrow dogmatists.” Taibbi pointed out that recent Gallup polls have shown that fully 91 percent of Democrats support a withdrawal from Iraq, and he asked the DLC leader to explain this contradiction. “So these hundreds of thousands of Democrats who are against the war are narrow dogmatists?” Taibbi asked. “We have thirty corporate-funded spokesmen telling hundreds of thousands of actual voters that they’re narrow dogmatists?”

-snip

http://www.davidsirota.com/index.php/big-money-vs-grassroots/
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Sirota is THE MAN!
All his anti-DLC blogs are exceptional.

TC


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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. 1 more EXCELLENT Sirota piece: THE DEMS '08 CHOICE...
I POST THESE IN HOPES THAT THOSE READING WILL MAKE INFORMED DECISION BEFORE ENDORSING/VOTING-it shouldn't be a popularity contest but about the real issues! heres an oldie but goodie!

The Democrats 2008 Choice: Sell Out & Lose, Or Stand Up & Win
Posted July 26, 2005 | 03:42 PM (EST)




The 2008 Democratic presidential candidates this week are busy genuflecting at Corporate America's altar -- otherwise known as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). Now, it's true -- the DLC is really just a group of Beltway-insulated corporate-funded hacks who have spent the better part of the last decade trying to undermine the Democratic Party's traditional working class base -- a base that had kept Democrats in power for 40 years and now, thanks to the DLC, has been forfeited to the Republicans. Even so, the fact that these presidential candidates feel the need to bow down to the DLC is a troubling sign about whether the Democratic Party is really serious about regaining power in America.

Let's just look at the cold, hard facts about the DLC and its record. The DLC has pushed, among other things, the war in Iraq and "free" trade policies, using bags of corporate money to buy enough Democratic votes to help Republicans make those policies a reality. They have chastised anyone who has opposed those policies as either unpatriotic or anti-business -- even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq, oppose the DLC's business-written trade deals, and are sick of watching America's economy sold out to the highest corporate bidder. Additionally, in brazenly Orwellian fashion, the DLC has also called its extremist agenda "centrist," even though polls show the American public opposes most of their agenda, and supports much of the progressive agenda.

Now, you could make a credible argument that the DLC's corporatization/Republicanization of the Democratic Party was justified, had it led to electoral success for Democrats. Few would argue that today's split-the-difference Democratic Party hasn't followed the DLC's policy direction over the last 10 years. That means the last 10 years of elections really have been a referendum on whether the DLC's model -- regardless of any moral judgements about it -- actually wins at the polls.

And that's when we get to the real problem with the DLC -- its policies are BOTH morally bankrupt, and politically disastrous. The rise of the DLC within the Democratic Party has coincided almost perfectly with the decline of the Democratic Party's power in American politics -- a decline that took Democrats from seemingly permanent majority status to permanent minority status. In this last election, just think of Democrats' troubles in Ohio as a perfect example of this. Here was a state ravaged by massive job loss due to corporate-written "free" trade deals -- yet Democrats were unable to capitalize on that issue and thus couldn't win the state because the DLC had long ago made sure the party helped pass the very trade policies (NAFTA, China PNTR) that sold out those jobs.

-SNIP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/the-democrats-2008-choice_b_4729.html
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. "And that's when we get to the real problem with the DLC -- its policies are BOTH morally bankrupt,
and politically disastrous. The rise of the DLC within the Democratic Party has has coincided almost perfectly with the decline of the Democratic Party's power in American politics -- a decline that took Democrats from seemingly permanent majority status to permanent minority status."

YES! -- Thanks for posting this!

TC
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. a veritable two-fer
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. But, unlike this "two-fer" fersure!


The king and queen of the DLC.

TC
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. no worries - I get it.
The bankruptcy legislation was the piece de resistance. I realize when the opposition is so far to the right it's tough to eek out sane policy, but this was an egregious assault on the middle class.

You don't have to convince me that many of the policies of the DLC favor corporations over Americans. I seen it with me own eyes.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
164. what did the Clintons have to do with the
bankruptcy legislation?
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
64. This is kind of sad -
fighting the old war instead of the new one in front of them.

DLC bashing is a distraction.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. I REALLY hope you don't mean this "New War":
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Why don't you ask a military person what
the reference means.

If you are focused on re-fighting past wars you are not preparing for the current challenge.

Like I said - DLC bashing is re-fighting past wars and missing the current challenges.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Assuming you are not literally meaning a new war but the "current challenges"
then I believe we are doing just that -trying to enlighten others of just what the DLC stand for as in corporatism. If Hillary (read DLC) would not be so prominent right now, the we could think of the DLC in the past but since she has been annoited by the corporate media then I feel we need to get the word out before the primaries. Many Dems favor Hillary for reasons such as name recognition, or that she is a woman. It's time to bring her policies and voting to light on issues that are important to many Dems.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. With all due respect, I disagree.
It isn't bashing when it is the truth. The DLC is a cancer in the body of the Democratic Party that needs to be cut out with the nearest scalpel.

TC

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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Well you won't be able to do that.
DLC is not an actual tumor. You give it more size and mass than it deserves.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #72
126. IT'S NOT A TUMOR!
Famous Arnold Schwarzeneger lines!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. it's red meat. Whenever a DLC candidate is thrashing "progressive" ones in polls, they play...
..the DLC card. It makes them feel better.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. The GOP won't vote for ya so why try and alienate the folks who GOTV for Kerry/Edwards?
Oh thats right-they didn't win and Gore didn't win because he switched from DLC to a populist. So you would rather Dems lose over a candidate that is divisive than any other Dem candidate running-right?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I'm sorry - you're under the impression GOTV efforts were invented in 2004
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. certainly not but it was brought to new heights w huge voter registration drives
and organized like nothing before at least in Ohio where I am. The funny thing...as an organizer of a 300 member Kerry Edwards group who worked closely w other progressive organizers in nearby areas with campaign staff, I have to say the folks who pounded the pavement and put in the greatest efforts were progressives. I don't see a DLC type getting their corporate friends going into low income neighborhoods or any other neighborhood for that matter and getting folks to the polls. Don't believe me then ask anyone who was in a leadership position w Kerry Edwards Campaigns.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. maybe that was the first time you noticed it?
:shrug:

I've been doing it since '88.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Where I live there weren't any precinct captains and were even missing ward people.
We set up the structure, working w campaign field staff, did GOTV in our area and then move to work surrounding areas that had no structure what so ever. I was told we had organized (we were considered ground zero for the campaign) like never before. We held visibility events at summer/fall festivals worked numerous rallies-even travelling to other areas of the state to work with advance staff on the multiple trips (seemed like Kerry or
edwards (or different family members, celebrities etc where constantly in town. We found housing for staff, cooked meals, we even cleaned out an abandoned sttel mill union office to set it up to coordinate activities. Heck I even drove in a Kerry motorcade with DUer Farmbo. Believe me, itg was progressives who worked the ranks and got the job done.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. where I live, all through my county, and all adjacent counties the opposite was true
:shrug:

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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #76
103. Gore won. nt
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #64
158. sorry, but it's not the "old war" just yet. n/t
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
74. kick
:kick:

TC
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
75. "I won't vote for anyone who supports the DLC, or whom the DLC supports"
Yes or No, and why?

TC



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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
79. Great thread, Totally Committed! n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. American Prospect: Ready to rumble
Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 10:20 PM by antigop
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=ready_to_rumble_2007

>.
Political reporter Matt Bai dissects today's Democratic Party, and urges it to move beyond the Clintonism of the '90s -- something that the current crop of presidential candidates (John Edwards excepted) doesn't seem all that inclined to do.
>>

He forgot about Kucinich.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #80
87. Kucinich and his policies could move this whole Party back toward its Leftist soul, but...
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 07:50 AM by Totally Committed
the fact that he and candidates like him aren't seen as "electable" is what we need to work on. We need a rabble-rouser, a fighter, a take-it-to-the-mat kind of candidate to force all the mamby-pamby bullsh*t the frontrunners and the DLC-ers are spouting to stay "electable" right down their "moderate" throats.

But, whenever one appears, he or she is labelled as "unstable", "crazy", "unelectable". Look what they did to Dean. See how they are basically ignoring Kucinich.

We have to find the courage to move beyond the superficial, and what "they" say, and actually VOTE for those who will make OUR case, represent OUR interests, and take back OUR country for us. Until we do, we are stuck with the mamby-pamby middle and the pretty/well-funded people they put up for election. Corporate America is all about "image" and not about "substance", "bottom line value", not "top-of-the-line values"... remember that.

TC


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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. You are preaching to the choir, TC. I have railed against the corporate hostile takeover.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Preaching to the choir? Do you see how many people here see NOTHING WRONG with the DLC-status quo?
It's f*cking shocking. Every time I do one of these threads, they spill out of the woodwork and swarm the thread. No... YOU may be part of the choir, but there are PLENTY here who are not. And THEY are the ones who need to see and hear and read about the DLC until they see the light, or this Party, and this country are doomed.

Sad, but true, my friend.

TC


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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #89
92. Melding the Clintons to the DLC, then insinuating the country is doomed because of them ...
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 08:42 AM by Maribelle
is a major conflict in logic.

Most people that I know think the country was far better off under Cliton by light years.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. Um... the Clintons ARE the DLC, or at least its "soul parents"...
sorry, but I stand behind that statement. I realize, being a Clinton supporter, you would disagree with me, but it's not the logic that's faulty, you just want HRC to win. I understand that.

TC


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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #93
98. I want the Democrats to win. I want them to win the White House. I want them to win 60 Senators.
I want the Democrats to send the rove-republicans to the history books for good. I want them to win these things so that we can begin to heal this nation. And on these principles I make my case, and state again your logic is faulty.

I will vote for any Democratic nominee.

For now, I support Hillary because I respect and admire her, I beleive she will be inspirational for our daughters and grandaughters, will go down in history as a remarkable woman, and can get the job done better than any of the other candidates.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. And, my opinion is this: HRC as POTUS, with 60 Dem. Senators who vote strictly middle-of-the-road,
for the most part will continue to collude with the Republicans and continue to enable their agenda. Period. It will be a continuation, for the most part, of the status quo. And, that scares the sh*t out of me.

Truly.

TC


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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #100
131. who the heck thinks Clinton can bring 60 Dem Senators with her?
I think her candidacy may well cause my local Democratic Rep to lose. She will mobilize the conservative base like no other candidate. I think she's way more likely to bring 60 Republican Senators with her, just like she did in 1994.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #131
139. I think she meant 60 Dem Sens total in the Senate....
but I could be wrong.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt....


TC
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #89
104. OK, I thought you were referring to me, personally. I agree -- many do not see it. n/t
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. Correct you are, my friend!
Correct you are!

TC

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. Do they not see it because they don't want to? n/t
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
85. I wondered why Murdoch cozied up to Hillary then....
I saw Bill Moyers Journal on Sunday and they were talking about ownership of radio stations and I was reminded of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 that President Clinton signed. This act removed the 40-station ownership cap that had previously been law. Clear Channel Communications now owns 1200 stations.

Maybe Murdoch's support is his way of saying thanks!
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #85
90. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 (that President Clinton signed)...
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 08:31 AM by Totally Committed
is also what has given us the Corporate-compliant, RW-loving, infotainment-over-content MSM we have today. Murdoch's FOX News only really began to flourish after he signed that Bill. Limbaugh's hate-filled schtick only began to be totally ubiquitous after that Bill. Why? Because of the deregulation.

This Bill was only ONE of the ways Clinton sold us and our country down the river. His Welfare Reform Act, his Don't Ask/Don't Tell, his DOMA, his NAFTA and all the other Bills he signed hoping to keep the RW mollified so they wouldn't come after his ass (which, they did anyway) sold us and our Party down the river.

TC


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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #90
95. Consolidation of major business is inevitable. It began long before Clinton.
It will continue on indefinitely.

Supermarkets, banks, gas stations, department stores, brands of food, baby diaper, computers, book sellers, pantyhose - - why even coffee and doughnuts.

Sorry - - but blaming the Telecommunications Act of 1996 on any mergers, and on any right wing hate monger is ridiculously inadequate.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. He enabled the consolidation that has led to many of our social and economic ills
today. NAFTA led to CAFTA. Outsourcing. Off-shoring of jobs. Corporate "personhood".

The DLC has supported all of these PLUS -- on top of it -- they support the Military-Industrial Complex and the wars that keep it "healthy" for the Corporations.

Like I said, you and I obviously have a different view of the DLC/Clinton connection. You have a right to believe what you will. I know what I believe, and you won't change that.

TC
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. I have NO opinion of the DLC/Clinton connection. I've merely crawled out of the woodwork.
My opinion is that your bashing of the DLC comes off as serious infighting.

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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #90
155. One other thing
Bill Clinton could have at any time during his 8 years closed the AFB in Saudi Arabia. Bush I built it to attack Iraq in the first Gulf war but never closed it and Bill had two terms to do it as well. As we know, that is the source of the hatred bin Laden had for us.

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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
91. I know positively, the problems with voters in Florida have nothing at all to do with the DLC.
In fact, I would wager most have never even heard of the DLC. This battle being waged against the DLC appears to most to be infighting of the worst kind.

Democrats need to choose their battles more carefully. Their aim should be to win the domestic war against the far right, not to dismantle their own party brick by brick in the eyes of the public.





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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #91
94. This thread has nothing to do with the Florida mutiny.
What's happening down there, though, is being exploited by Sen. Nelson and he is most definitely part of the DLC. My guess is he is trying to force a showdaown between his forces and the Dean forces, and milk it for all it's worth.

TC


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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. Well, that's not what I was trying to address.
Apathy.

The registered voters in Florida have stayed home in droves in recent national elections.

There is this emotional emptiness prevalent, and I can guarantee you this appearance of self implosion will do nothing to inspire them to come out and vote Democratic.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #97
105. Why shouldn't they? If I had had it proved to me that MY VOTE could be stolen, massaged, and
"managed" as theirs was in 2000 -- only to have the SCOTUS step in and nullify the ones that registered anyway -- I'd probably be pretty apathetic, too.

What has been needed badly is a strong Democratic response to voter fraud, and candidates that will courageously take a stand until every vote is VERIFIED, and COUNTED, and everyone who can vote, does vote, and that every vote counts. Kerry and his DLC-advised and run campaign KNEW Ohio was stolen, and still conceded 4 hours after the last poll in Hawaii had closed. KNEW it. But, Shrum didn't want him to look "ungentlemanly", or like a "bad sport". So, for appearances' sake he walked away? That's the DLC way... make no waves, upset no applecarts, and for cripessake don't turn off any corporations to a future run by you! Kerry deserved better. WE deserved better. And, I'm not sure exactly how much damage was done by THIS, but Carville called his wife at Bush headquarters and clued her in to what Kerry would have done. And, tell me Carville isn't DLC. It's that DLC-signature "bipartisan sharing" that he sees nothing wrong with. (It was also Carville who attacked Dean and called for his resignation after our 2006 WIN with his 50-State-Strategy.)

Voter apathy in this country is coming directly from the FACT that their votes no longer count. COrporations are being represented by those "elected" with them. Impeachement is off the table. The Iraq Occupation continues. The "surge" is "succeeding"! And Joe Lieberman is elected with the help of the Democratic Party after the Democratic voters of CT nominate Lamont as their candidate. WHy the hell NOT stay home?

We need candidates who make people WANT to vote again. We need candidates that let us cast our votes with enthusiasm and pride FOR them, not AGAINST the other side, because that was our only choice. The DLC prevents this by making sure their middle-of-the-road, mealy-mouthed, colluder DINOs are funded with lots of corporate cash. Do you really think Kucinich would be seen as "unelectable" if he had the same amount of $$$ as HRC? Me either.

And, you decry voter apathy????

TC

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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #97
114. Did you read the OP?
You are not making ANY sense. Just trying to counter a particular point, and then contradicting that.

In the OP it said that liberal/progressive/minority/poor/etc. votes have been staying away from the polls because their concerns are not being discussed, yet alone addressed by the "debate". This debate has become very right wing because the Republicans/Neo-Cons/Fascist types have aggressively taken advantage of the basest instincts of the population after Civil Rights and The Great Society, and because the lame-ass apologists (really power hungry "leadership" types) of the DLC and other "centrist" groups simply pander and follow the right-ward move.

You see it now? Voters are not staying apathetic, as you say, because they heard of the DLC and do not want to vote for them. What hogwosh you threw out there.

As you said "here is this emotional emptiness prevalent." Yes. That is EXACTLY the point of the OP.

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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #114
117. Don't you think that the problem lies in the very name of the DLC,
i.e., "Leadership"? This is a democratically represented Democracy. We are the leaders and have to be. Otherwise we do not have a functioning democratic government. Nor a functioning democratic party.

We need to stop being seduced by the idea that "rock-star" politicians (President Clinton comes to mind here) are going to "lead up" to some kind of promised land. Also, we need to "just say no" to the assumption that winning is everything. I would rather get a truly Democratic agenda (Progressive/Liberal/etc.) acted upon, than have a bunch of people called Democrats in political office, thank you very much.

BTW, I came over from the 3rd-party world after the reich and SCOTUS stole the election of 2000. We do not need a 3rd or 4th party. THIS is OUR party. It cannot function without us. "Leaders" are not leaders without followers.

This is our party. Let's make it so.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #114
118. Thank you for trying to point out one of the major points of the OP, but
Some just see only what they want to see, I'm afraid, and you know what they say -- "There are none so blind as they who will not see". I do appreciate those like you who actually read that long OP, and saw its call to arms as sincere, and necessary.

Thank you!

TC

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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #114
120. I think we just went around in a circle.
I said the problems with the voters in Florida have nothing to do with the DLC.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
102. No on DLC...........
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
106. A great book: David Sirota's "Hostile Takeover". n/t
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #106
109. I agree! I read it twice, and highly recommend it.
TC
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
107. If Bush isn't impeached, I find no reason to even vote.
Our republic will be beyond repair because the Bush administration's transgression will have been authorized by Nancy Pelosi et. al.
I would not want to vote for anyone, progressive or not, who will now have the go ahead to usurp the rights of all citizens, be they progressive or conservative.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #107
112. My point upthread about voter apathy and "staying home in droves" exactly.
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 09:36 AM by Totally Committed
WHy bother if all we get for our votes are those who will represent the corporations instead of us, and ignore our OBVIOUS mandates? I'm tired of having a party triangulated so far Right that our candidates are nothing but a paler shade of Republican. The DLC has rendered our voting process impossible. (Read the darned OP!)

We need comprehensive Election Reform and Anti-Voter-Fraud laws enacted.

TC


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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #112
116. Most definitely
Election Reform and Anti-Voter Fraud laws should be enacted, as well as impeachment. ;)
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
110. Thanks, Totally Committed -- over 40 recommendations on this thread --
Some people understand.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #110
113. Yes... with your help, mod mom's help, and all those who came here
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 10:07 AM by Totally Committed
to exhibit our disgust with the DLC and their policies.

Thank you all!

TC


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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
121. Wow! I want to thank everyone whose Rec's have put this on the Home Page!
I'm honored and grateful. This message is one I've longed to see on the front page of this site for a long time! :applause: >>> to each and every one of you!!!

The DLC needs to go!

TC


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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #121
124. Hmmmm...at least SOME people are paying attention. n/t
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #124
127. Seriously....
did you think you'd ever see the day when an anti-DLC thread would be just under a William Rivers Pitt article on the Home Page?

I didn't. Bravo to all of you!

TC




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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #121
140. I hope this thread stays on the Home Page...
I had an anti-DLC post make it to the Home Page with 20 recommends...it was taken off the Home page within twenty minutes.

...It drives me crazy when people consider putting down the DLC “in-fighting”...the DLC doesn’t stand for up for the average American citizen, they stand up for corporations and anything that makes them more wealthy and powerful.
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
129. I agree. Are there any strategies in place or being developed
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 10:29 AM by AikidoSoul
to change this? The best option would be for the Progressives to take back the party, but without losing its
conservative members to the Repugniks altogether.

The Dems have long been lacking in strategy development. There are so many excellent planning tools available.

The Progressive wing should be at least using a Kurt Lewin organization development construct called "Force Field Analysis" for implementing a strategic plan that the Progressives can agree on. In this case if the Progressives wish to have more power and voice in the Dem Party one might use it.

Here are the basics on how to carry out a Force Field Analysis:

• State the current situation
• Describe the ideal situation
• Identify where the current situation will go if no action is taken
• List all the forces driving change toward your ideal situation
• List all the forces resisting change toward your ideal situation
• Interrogate all of the forces: Are they valid? Can they be changed? Which are the critical forces?
• Allocate a score to each of the forces using a numerical scale e.g. (1) extremely weak (10) extremely strong
• Chart the forces by listing (to strength scale) the driving forces on the left and restraining forces on the right. The chart allows one to visualise the forces at work and determine whether change is viable and progress can occur

• The viability of any change program can be affected by decreasing the strength of the restraining forces and/or by increasing the strength of driving forces. Care needs to be exercised when increasing driving forces as this can create new, or increase the strength of existing restraining forces
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
132. thanks for posting this--very illuminating and crucial understanding
of why dlc consists of DINOs
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
133. Thanks. I appreciate your help in bringing more awareness to this.
I'm getting up to speed on things. This helps.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
137. David Sirota -- Debunking Centrism
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1216-20.htm
>>
Looking out over Washington, DC, from his plush office, Al From is once again foaming at the mouth. The CEO of the corporate-sponsored Democratic Leadership Council and his wealthy cronies are in their regular postelection attack mode. Despite wins by economic populists in red states like Colorado and Montana this year, the DLC is claiming like a broken record that progressive policies are hurting the Democratic Party.

From’s group is funded by huge contributions from multinationals like Philip Morris, Texaco, Enron and Merck, which have all, at one point or another, slathered the DLC with cash. Those resources have been used to push a nakedly corporate agenda under the guise of “centrism” while allowing the DLC to parrot GOP criticism of populist Democrats as far-left extremists. Worse, the mainstream media follow suit, characterizing progressive positions on everything from trade to healthcare to taxes as ultra-liberal. As the AP recently claimed, “party liberals argue that the party must energize its base by moving to the left” while “the DLC and other centrist groups argue that the party must court moderates and find a way to compete in the Midwest and South.”

Is this really true? Is a corporate agenda really “centrism”? Or is it only “centrist” among Washington’s media elite, influence peddlers and out-of-touch political class? The American Heritage Dictionary defines “centrism” as “the political philosophy of avoiding the extremes of right and left by taking a moderate position.” So to find out what is really “mainstream,” the best place to look is public polling data.
>>
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
141. I have two questions
To make a long story short, I agree 100% with your take on the DLC. My question is, quite simply,
will we have the time necessary before the elections to fix this problem, and still have enough
time left to field a truely viable, truely progressive candidate? Do you believe a DLC infected
Democrat can be as bad as what we have now?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. Thanks for your agreement.
(1) "will we have the time necessary before the elections to fix this problem, and still have enough time left to field a truely viable, truely progressive candidate?"

We might. If a very popular "progressive" were to throw his or her hat intot he ring, and had the name-recognition and the funding that would bring available, there could be a chance. There are one or two that immediately come to mind. But, sadly, as the weeks tick off, and time goes by, it seems less and less likely. I still hold out hope.

(2) "Do you believe a DLC infected Democrat can be as bad as what we have now?"

I see so little difference in policy and stances on the issues, my answer would have to be YES. I see no peaceniks in the DLC. I see no economic populists. I see not willingness to buck the corporate structure to give us Single-Payer universal health care. Yup.... Just as bad.


TC



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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. I believe the primary differance in our thinking
Edited on Tue Aug-28-07 02:34 PM by guruoo
MAY be that I place the preservation of civil liberties
above the war in my list of the most critical issues.

on edit: Really, what I'm thinking here is was Bill Clinton as
bad as Bush, or moreso, will a DLC President be as bad as a true, 100% Bush
rightwing fascist policy clone?

I'm listenin' TC.
Talk to me.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #146
147. You mean the way this mealy-mouthed bunch of DINO's in Congress just voted on FISA?
Were you happy with that?

I wasn't.

TC


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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #147
149. Nooooo, not happy at all with that, but
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
142. TC, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wanted to add to the "recommends" to your post...
...it's more than 24 hours old.

Just think 50+++++++++
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #142
144. Thanks so much, Just-plain-Kathy...
The response to this thread has been so personally inspiring. I am honored!

TC


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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #144
152. You didn't last long on the front page. What's up with that?
It was good while it lasted. :toast:

I guess we have to be loyal democrats first and Americans second. Too bad for me, I'm just the exact opposite.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #152
154. Frankly, given the subject-matter, I was stunned to see it there at all.
It was there for about an hour. Thaht's better than nothing, I guess!

TC



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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
145. Latest from the Anti DLC Coalition:
Bush allied Democrats must go; Wiretap sanctioning is the last straw.

Once again the "new" Democratic majority collectively failed to do what it was elected to do. It once again caved into the wishes of George W. Bush. What are these Democrats afraid of? George W. Bush is one of the most unpopular presidents of all time with poll numbers hovering just below 30 per cent. Thanks to the Democratic majority George W. Bush now has congressionally sanctioned powers to wiretap American citizens at will. Until those Democrats who continue to support unconstitutional Bush actions are shown that there are consequences for their actions they will continue to do what they having been doing.....becoming the silent partners of the morally challenged Bush administration. With the previous do nothing congress Democrats could always say "We were outnumbered" They can say that this time because they are in control of both houses. They have to be made to feel the heat. Every progressive voting Democrat should write to his or her representative in the Senate or House and express his or her outrage at Democratic inaction. What does King George have over them? Did he threaten them? Did he tell them "If you don't vote the way I want you to you the same thing that happened to Paul Wellstone will happen to you? I am really suprised at those Democrats who supported unconditional wiretaps (Webb, Inouye). This type of betrayal and complete disregard of the constitution by DEMOCRATS as well as Republicans can't continue. Something has to be done about it immediately. Bush cannot continue to have a rubber stamp Congress. The only was to stop this is to replace the Blue Dog/DLC Democrats with progressives. This will not be difficult because the Democratic/Progressive wing of the party is estimated to be at least 40%. I have always admired John Conyers. He has been on the right side of so many issues. I don't understand why the man who wrote a book on impeaching Bush is not backing off from doing so. The wiretap issue just shows the urgent need for the Impeachment of Bush, Cheney, Gonzales etc. NOW because they can do considerably more damage in the remainder of their lame duck term. Initially I was pleased to see Nancy Pelosi become the Democratic Congressional leader. I don't feel that way now. She continues to coddle this dangerous president. She is NOT reprensenting the will of the people who supported her. Most US citizens want impeachment. How can she be so compassionate with a tyrant when the Democratic presidential predecessor WAS IMPEACHED for one personal matter. George Bush's offenses are just too numerous to mention in this article. This why people around the country, and especially in California MUST support the candidacy of Cindy Sheehan when she runs against Pelosi. We cannot continue to financially support these people when they continue to forget us when the time comes to vote on issues crucial to the average US citizen. Of course we do have many progressive Democrats who have voted correctedly, but we need more of them. Democrats in this and the preceeding Do Nothing Congress have dropped the ball when it came to 1) The Iraq War 2) Supreme Court Nominations 3) Insurance 4)Abortion 5) Electoral Disenfranchement 6) The Environment 7) Partisan firings of Districts Attorney and now Unwarranted Domestic Surveillance. It's time to let the DINOS know that we're fed up and we're not going to take it anymore.

http://www.cch092775.blogspot.com/


TC
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Lena inRI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
148. Well. . .well. . .well. . .
TC ya did it! You made me break out of my complete disillusioned political hibernation. . .only, and I mean ONLY, because I respect you and what you're trying to do with this post.

The 2008 Democratic Presidential so-called front-runners so far SUCK!

Listen in on any frank discussion about these choices and ya hear over and over the same jaded suspicions. . .that they, each in their own way, are ARTIFICIALLY PROMOTED by their BIG power backers (take your pick. . . DLC members, Bildeburg conferees, media moguls like Rupert, professional cliques like ABA, Wall St).

NONE of them INSPIRE a united ground-swell of enthusiasm from the Democratic base which is still middle/working class people. They raise only donations, NOT THE HEARTS OF THE PEOPLE.

MEANWHILE, I HEAR SO OFTEN WHERE'S AL GORE? WES CLARK? Why is DENNIS KUCINICH the only one who sounds like a REAL DEMOCRAT? Why are people more enthusiastic about "barricades" ROBERT F KENNEDY, JR and candid Senator JIM WEBB ?

The DLC grip has caused this disconnect between the Democratic Party and its base.

Time to shake up the Democratic Party house in order to take the White House in '08. ARE YOU LISTENING, DR. DEAN?

TC, airing out the challenge to DLC here on DU is only a beginning. . .how and where do you CONTINUE this discussion so that by Denver convention next July, the Democratic Party platform and the candidates truly reflect the PEOPLES' CHOICES? How do the delegates buck the DLC?

I want to see a brokered convention. . .meantime, these candidates of straw won't get from me one red cent or a minute of my time.

true blue DEMOCRATS GORE = CLARK = KUCINICH = RFK = WEBB




:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #148
150. Lena... first of all I'm so glad to "see" you!
So many people have drifted away. I feel like just seeing this post is a gift.

Then, thank you for seeing what I am trying to do with this series of threads about the DLC. I had one last week as well, but it was not nearly as successful as this one. I had so much support here, and so much agreement. It is gratifying.

I just wish I knew the answer to your question. I don't know where we go from here. I only know that if any of the DLC candidates is the nominee, I will refuse, on principle, to participte in the charade that this election will have become. Either I have a real choice or I'll choose not to participate. Simple as that. I won't be "played" any longer.

Thanks for coming our of your hibernation for this post. What a treat it is to see a name with so many positive associations! I've missed you.

TC


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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
151. This guy's not a tool of the DLC
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. No, he sure isn't. And we are damned lucky to have him!
Thanks for that tip! ;)


TC



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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
157. The "Neo-Liberals" are the UK equivalent of the DLC.
This is an article from Yesterday's UK Guardian. We are not the only country fighting off these parasites:

How the neoliberals stitched up the wealth of nations for themselves
A cabal of intellectuals and elitists hijacked the economic debate, and now we are dealing with the catastrophic effects

George Monbiot
The Guardian


For the first time the UK's consumer debt exceeds the total of its gross national product: a new report shows that we owe £1.35 trillion. Inspectors in the United States have discovered that 77,000 road bridges are in the same perilous state as the one which collapsed into the Mississippi. Two years after Hurricane Katrina struck, 120,000 people from New Orleans are still living in trailer homes and temporary lodgings. As runaway climate change approaches, governments refuse to take the necessary action. Booming inequality threatens to create the most divided societies the world has seen since before the first world war. Now a financial crisis caused by unregulated lending could turf hundreds of thousands out of their homes and trigger a cascade of economic troubles.

These problems appear unrelated, but they all have something in common. They arise in large part from a meeting that took place 60 years ago in a Swiss spa resort. It laid the foundations for a philosophy of government that is responsible for many, perhaps most, of our contemporary crises.

When the Mont Pelerin Society first met, in 1947, its political project did not have a name. But it knew where it was going. The society's founder, Friedrich von Hayek, remarked that the battle for ideas would take at least a generation to win, but he knew that his intellectual army would attract powerful backers. Its philosophy, which later came to be known as neoliberalism, accorded with the interests of the ultra-rich, so the ultra-rich would pay for it.

Neoliberalism claims that we are best served by maximum market freedom and minimum intervention by the state. The role of government should be confined to creating and defending markets, protecting private property and defending the realm. All other functions are better discharged by private enterprise, which will be prompted by the profit motive to supply essential services. By this means, enterprise is liberated, rational decisions are made and citizens are freed from the dehumanising hand of the state.

This, at any rate, is the theory. But as David Harvey proposes in his book A Brief History of Neoliberalism, wherever the neoliberal programme has been implemented, it has caused a massive shift of wealth not just to the top 1%, but to the top tenth of the top 1%. In the US, for instance, the upper 0.1% has already regained the position it held at the beginning of the 1920s. The conditions that neoliberalism demands in order to free human beings from the slavery of the state - minimal taxes, the dismantling of public services and social security, deregulation, the breaking of the unions - just happen to be the conditions required to make the elite even richer, while leaving everyone else to sink or swim. In practice the philosophy developed at Mont Pelerin is little but an elaborate disguise for a wealth grab.

So the question is this: given that the crises I have listed are predictable effects of the dismantling of public services and the deregulation of business and financial markets, given that it damages the interests of nearly everyone, how has neoliberalism come to dominate public life?

Richard Nixon was once forced to concede that "we are all Keynesians now". Even the Republicans supported the interventionist doctrines of John Maynard Keynes. But we are all neoliberals now. Margaret Thatcher kept telling us that "there is no alternative", and by implementing her programmes Clinton, Blair, Brown and the other leaders of what were once progressive parties appear to prove her right.

The first great advantage the neoliberals possessed was an unceasing fountain of money. US oligarchs and their foundations - Coors, Olin, Scaife, Pew and others - have poured hundreds of millions into setting up thinktanks, founding business schools and transforming university economics departments into bastions of almost totalitarian neoliberal thinking. The Heritage Foundation, the Hoover Institute, the American Enterprise Institute and many others in the US, the Institute of Economic Affairs, the Centre for Policy Studies and the Adam Smith Institute in the UK, were all established to promote this project. Their purpose was to develop the ideas and the language which would mask the real intent of the programme - the restoration of the power of the elite - and package it as a proposal for the betterment of humankind.

Their project was assisted by ideas which arose in a very different quarter. The revolutionary movements of 1968 also sought greater individual liberties, and many of the soixante-huitards saw the state as their oppressor. As Harvey shows, the neoliberals coopted their language and ideas. Some of the anarchists I know still voice notions almost identical to those of the neoliberals: the intent is different, but the consequences very similar.

Hayek's disciples were also able to make use of economic crises. An early experiment took place in New York City, which was hit by budgetary disaster in 1975. Its bankers demanded that the city follow their prescriptions - huge cuts in public services, smashing of the unions, public subsidies for business. In the UK, stagflation, strikes and budgetary breakdown allowed Thatcher, whose ideas were framed by her neoliberal adviser Keith Joseph, to come to the rescue. Her programme worked, but created a new set of crises.

If these opportunities were insufficient, the neoliberals and their backers would use bribery or force. In the US, the Democrats were neutered by new laws on campaign finance. To compete successfully for funding with the Republicans, they would have to give big business what it wanted. The first neoliberal programme of all was implemented in Chile following Pinochet's coup, with the backing of the US government and economists taught by Milton Friedman, one of the founding members of the Mont Pelerin Society. Drumming up support for the project was easy: if you disagreed, you got shot. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank used their power over developing nations to demand the same policies.

But the most powerful promoter of this programme was the media. Most of it is owned by multimillionaires who use it to project the ideas that support their interests. Those ideas which threaten their interests are either ignored or ridiculed. It is through the newspapers and TV channels that the socially destructive notions of a small group of extremists have come to look like common sense. The corporations' tame thinkers sell the project by reframing our political language (for an account of how this happens, see George Lakoff's book, Don't Think of an Elephant!). Nowadays I hear even my progressive friends using terms like wealth creators, tax relief, big government, consumer democracy, red tape, compensation culture, job seekers and benefit cheats. These terms, all invented or promoted by neoliberals, have become so commonplace that they now seem almost neutral.

Neoliberalism, if unchecked, will catalyse crisis after crisis, all of which can be solved only by greater intervention on the part of the state. In confronting it, we must recognise that we will never be able to mobilise the resources its exponents have been given. But as the disasters they have caused unfold, the public will need ever less persuading that it has been misled.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2157197,00.html


TC
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
160. My favorite part was when they supported Joe Lieberman's 3rd Party.
Edited on Wed Aug-29-07 06:23 PM by Dr Fate
But what I love even more is when DU's own DLCers LIE and try to say they never supported him after he announced that he would form a 3rd party if Lamont won.

Try it sometime- it's fun to make them play Judas to their own.

Sure- Bill & Hillary pretended to support Ned, but did they campaign for Ned as much and raise as many dollars as they did for Joe? If not, then a DLCer cant even honestly make that claim.

For the record, Harold Ford, a top leader of the DLC OPENLY endorsed Joe Lieberman AFTER he went 3rd party.

That says it all.

The fact that DLCers-including the ones here at DU- dont let them lie to you and tell you differently- supported a CONSERVATIVE 3rd party- is really all you need to know about them.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #160
163. I have to agree with you. The Lieberman over Lamont fiasco was the absolute end for me.
I knew after that thet they had to go. I was disgusted over that election.

I want nothing to do with any DLC-er ever again. Not ever.

They have to go.

TC


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