I am going to be honest here, as a tireless and faithful Obama supporter:

[TwilightGardener]

I hate it when other folks defend their candidates even when it's clear that the candidates have stepped in it--it's dishonest. So I have to come clean:

I am disappointed in Obama with his Coburn remark. I don't give a rat's ass that Coburn has somehow appointed himself "czar" of Senate ethics and likes to go after earmarks--that's just him being a sanctimonious prick (look at me, I'm so ethical and holier than thou!), especially when one looks at the big picture and considers the man's intolerance, AND his full-throated support for Chimpy's immoral war. I don't consider Coburn ethical at all in this light, and I am deeply disappointed that Obama would name him as a FRIEND, not just someone he'd work with. That is not a "friend" I'd be proud to have.

The war is the most important issue that we face, and the fact that Obama wouldn't extol the virtues of someone from the other side of the aisle who has shown sanity and conscience on this issue bothers me. I can understand Warner and Lugar, perhaps, but I don't particularly admire them--they talk pretty, but are chickenshit in not standing up to Chimpy on the war when it counts. What about Smith? Snowe? Collins? Hagel? He can't work or be friends with these people? I find the choice of Coburn to be disturbingly pre-meditated and calculated to appeal to crossover conservative Repub voters who worship the guy (probably because he's a PRICK)--but Obama, you are running in the DEM primary, not the General just yet. Please, PLEASE stop with the bipartisan stuff--I agree with most of it, but it's time to get back to appealing to DEMOCRATS. I want you to WIN!! Now, that's off my chest, and I can go back to cheerleading. Rant over--thanks for listening.

[demnan]

1. It's ok

Occasionally any of the candidates are bound to have a misstep. They're human, after all.

[cobalt1999]

2. There is no coming clean yet...

This is going to be a great big mud-wrestling match until a nominee is chosen. Sometimes it's fun to watch, sometimes you feel like getting dirty, either way, it's going to be an interesting primary season around here. :)

[Cameron27]

3. I'm not a supporter, but I'm strongly considering him,

and I feel the same way about that remark. It's so refreshing seeing this kind of honesty from a supporter. It actually helps Obama in my opinion.

[TwilightGardener]

15. Thanks. I don't think he really damaged himself at all, but I just don't

want to hear any more about his love for Coburn, or any other Repubs that he feels affection for--like Mike Huckabee, who believes that the Grand Canyon and the Rocky Mountain Uplift were accomplished in 4000 years, and that Americans' fatness is a security threat against terrorism--yuck. Either become a better judge of character, or keep it to yourself, Obama! :-)

[Benhurst]

4. Enough with all the "bring us all together" bullshit. Obama has some

good ideas; but this isn't one of them. You don't compromise with fascists. If you get in bed with them, it's going to be on their terms. Partisanship is not the problem in Washington. The Democratic Party's not standing up to, often sadly even going along with, criminals who have shredded the Constitution and made a mockery of international law is the problem. "Patriot" Act, indeed.

Restore the Republic! Restore the Constitution! To hell with "bringing us together." I had enough of that with Richard Nixon and George W. Bush, "a uniter, not a divider." Yeah. Sure.

[Colobo]

7. Yeah! Let's go to war with those sick fucks!!! (sarcasm)

If I wanted more of these divisiveness, I would have stayed in the Republican Party.

[Benhurst]

14. "No more divisiveness in our time." Now that would be a good slogan.

Almost as good as "Peace in our time."

[wyldwolf]

18. yes, we SHOULD go to war with those "sick fucks." They need to pay for what they did to Gore, Kerry

..The Clintons, Cleland.

[Colobo]

20. I disagree totally. Divisiveness has proven to be detrimental to our

nation in a very deep way. The nation needs healing. It needs to be restored after all this disaster. I don't want a warrior, I want an architect. I want someone with the vision to bring the country together, to find our common ground...

That's what I am looking for. That's why I left the Republican Party. We need national reconciliation and healing, wyld. I'm being honest with you, and you know we disagree on what candidates we support. This is something I'm very passionate about.

[Benhurst]

26. If we had had a national reconciliation in 1860, it would have been

God only knows how many more years before slavery was abolished.

As it was, it was just such a desire on the part of the North for a national reconciliation and healing following the Civil War and Reconstruction which allowed Jim Crow to be established in the South, effectively re-enslaving those who so recently had been emancipated at such a great cost in money and human life.

Many issues can be settled through give and take. Others need to be confronted and resolved without compromise.

What has taken place in this country since the 2000 election was stolen and 9/11 is beyond the scope of conventional political give and take. There can be no compromise with war crimes and treason.

The divisiveness plaguing Washington at this time has its roots in stolen elections, corruption on a scale which would have made Harding blush, the shredding of the Constitution, and war crimes. As long as there are people who believe in the Republic, there will be divisiveness, and thank God that is so.

[wyldwolf]

30. anyone who think the GOP will play nice is delusional.

They will not compromise and will beat you down until they get 100% of what they want.

[Colobo]

5. Good post, although I disagree with you.

I think Obama has the ability to make human garbage like Coburn support him on progressive initiatives.

[Totally Committed]

6. I love integrity... especially on a Monday!

Bravo for you! :applause:

Those remarks were pretty darned scary to those of us not yet firmly in any "camp"!


TC

[rox63]

8. Every Senator has worked with the opposition on bills

They come together when it involves an issue they can agree on. If it serves both their interests, you'll end up seeing some mighty strange bedfellows. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily friends, or that they agree on other issues. But reaching across the aisle on some issues can be useful.

[Colobo]

9. Exactly! Some people here confuse strategy with compromise

and some other people are so aggravated by what the Republicans have done that are only thinking about retribution.

[ripple]

10. This has been way overblown, IMHO

If you ever watch the Senate, you will be hard pressed to find any senator who does not refer to other senators as their "friends", even those in the opposing party. This is nothing new or particularly disturbing.

As a Kansan, I find Sam Brownback pretty damned despicable, but he and Obama worked together to bring attention to the situation in Darfur and then co-authored legislation to help end the genocide in Sudan. I think that's a wonderful thing.

Similarly, Obama worked with Coburn on legislation that would make the Congress more transparent to the people, in an effort to stop corruption by elected officials and lobbyist. That, too, is a good thing.

I'm glad that Obama is able to find some sort of common ground with his 'friend' across the aisle, without compromising his principles in doing so.

[Colobo]

11. Excellent post, and you are right on the money.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I'm not trying to make a real big deal out of it, because I don't think

it IS one, but if I could give him advice, I'd say, lay off the praise for Repubs during the primary season. I feel that the vast majority of GOPers have contributed to damaging this country, they continue to block legislation out of spite, and they continue to stand with Chimpy while soldiers die for nothing. I am all for bipartisanship--I don't think we can get anywhere without it, and I do not generally demonize ALL Repubs--there are some good ones. Just that Coburn ain't one of them. Again, no biggie, but until I hear front-runner Repubs naming Congressional Dems as their friends and people they look forward to working with, I think we shouldn't be too overeager to cooperate across the aisle.

[never cry wolf]

28. Here's an excellent explanation of the way Obama works

This is from last October posted on a blog by an admitted policy wonk:

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2006/10/barack_obama.html
=========
But I do follow legislation, at least on some issues, and I have been surprised by how often Senator Obama turns up, sponsoring or co-sponsoring really good legislation on some topic that isn't wildly sexy, but does matter. His bills tend to have the following features: they are good and thoughtful bills that try to solve real problems; they are in general not terribly flashy; and they tend to focus on achieving solutions acceptable to all concerned, not by compromising on principle, but by genuinely trying to craft a solution that everyone can get behind.

His legislation is often proposed with Republican co-sponsorship, which brings me to another point: he is bipartisan in a good way. According to me, bad bipartisanship is the kind practiced by Joe Lieberman. Bad bipartisans are so eager to establish credentials for moderation and reasonableness that they go out of their way to criticize their (supposed) ideological allies and praise their (supposed) opponents. They also compromise on principle, and when their opponents don't reciprocate, they compromise some more, until over time their positions become indistinguishable from those on the other side.

This isn't what Obama does. Obama tries to find people, both Democrats and Republicans, who actually care about a particular issue enough to try to get the policy right, and then he works with them. This does not involve compromising on principle. It does, however, involve preferring getting legislation passed to having a spectacular battle. (This is especially true when one is in the minority party, especially in this Senate: the chances that Obama's bills will actually become law increase dramatically when he has Republican co-sponsors.)

So my little data point is: while Obama has not proposed his Cosmic Plan for World Peace, he has proposed a lot of interesting legislation on important but undercovered topics. I can't remember another freshman Senator who so routinely pops up when I'm doing research on some non-sexy but important topic, and pops up because he has proposed something genuinely good. Since I think that American politics doesn't do nearly enough to reward people who take a patient, craftsmanlike attitude towards legislation, caring as much about fixing the parts that no one will notice until they go wrong as about the flashy parts, I wanted to say this. Specifics below the fold.
============

[TwilightGardener]

31. That is one of the things I admire best about him--the way he seeks

pragmatic legislative solutions without looking for a "sexy" cause or star billing. It is one of his great strengths. I have NO PROBLEM with him working across the aisle--just wish that he'd either chosen more honorable colleagues to highlight and praise, or just didn't say anything specific until primary season is over. There's no denying that Coburn is a wrong-headed bigot and warmonger--I wouldn't publicly declare my admiration for this guy during a Dem primary, if I were Obama. It's only a small misstep, but it rankled me a little.

[AtomicKitten]

12. It's just language.

Obama is an organizer. Working with everyone, he gets things done. He wasn't validating Coburn in any way, shape, or form.

[Colobo]

13. Another great post. It's common sense.

[Adelante]

16. It happens

There isn't a politician alive who won't break your heart over something or other. Good for you for calling him out on this. It's not in anybody's interest to be a hypocrite about something so important as where candidates stand. I don't have a major problem with senators trying to use common ground to get things done myself, but I respect your honesty very much.

[Bitwit1234]

17. When I see a candidate being bashed

I know I shouldn't do it but I bash the candidate the basher is supporting. Well not really bash but.....I think we should all stop bashing democrats and do it to the republicans. I don't care what the republican mentality they have captured I don't think I will even read the bashing threads again.

[zulchzulu]

19. I think working on bi-partisan issues is a good sign of a leader

Here is some of the legislation that Obama worked with Coburn.

If you have to work with someone who you may disagree on 90% of the issues and still get legislation on making federal expenses more transparent or stop FEMA from doing no-bid contracts, that's what you do.

Obama, Coburn Introduce Bill Requiring Public Disclosure of All Recipients of Federal Funding
Taxpayers Can Find Out Online How Their Money Is Spent
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060407-coburn_introduc/

Obama and Coburn revive effort to stop no-bid FEMA contracts
http://thehill.com/the-executive/obama-and-coburn-revive-effort-to-stop-no-bid-fema-contracts-2006-09-14.html

Should we trash Russ Feingold because he worked with McCain on legislation regarding campaign finance reform?

[FrenchieCat]

21. Diplomacy is the "art of persuasion".......Politics is the "art of the possible".....

ANALOGY: A salesperson knocks on your door and start accusing you of all kinds of things, calling you names and putting you down for something you've done or believe in, and chances are great that not only won't you let them into your home, but you would certainly not allow them to give you their sales pitch and you certainly wouldn't buy anything from them. Most likely, you would slam the door in his/her face, and make them your mortal enemy whose demise may become your overarching goal; the first step might be to call the company he/she represents to lodge a complaint. The 2nd step might be to start badmouthing them to whomever will listen, and your 3rd step might be to ensure that they lose their job. In the end, the salesperson will have done much more to harm him/herself than to have accomplished any goals.

And as Wes Clark has said over and over again, "we have to talk to our enemies"....., and instead of bullying them and telling them what to do, we have to conversate with them and find common interest and common ground and work to get done what we want. This simply doesn't apply to foreign enemies, it also applies to our domestic ones as well.

It's amazing that we would be willing to talk to foreign countries that may be responsible for harming our citizens, but we aren't supposed to negotiate and use diplomatic measures to work with our own countryfolks, no matter that they are on the other side.

[AtomicKitten]

23. excellent analysis

Obama/Clark would do some serious damage to the GOP.

[TwilightGardener]

25. Good post, but I'm not advocating demonizing Repubs--just saying

that Obama should consider his choice of Repubs a little more carefully--he has to win the PRIMARY first, and the Repubs he highlighted were kind of a turnoff to me, and possibly to other Dem primary voters (though I hope not). Safer to stop naming names, at this point. Dems don't want to see someone who might give up too much ground to the other side of the aisle right off the bat, anyway.

[Cameron27]

27. I tried to make that argument in another thread,

but it was disregarded. I don't like inflammatory, divisive outbursts from presidential candidates; I'm looking for someone who has the ability to navigate very difficult diplomacy in a messed up world.

[wndycty]

24. Yeah, Obama's my guy but his confidence in Coburn is misguided

:kick:

[rodeodance]

39. i think i am a Edwards or Richardson or....Anyway, Colburn sucks

[MADem]

29. How DARE you be reasonable and see the BIG PICTURE!!!!

Don't you realize it's an "All or Nothing" game in some quarters? Why, the cognitive dissonance!!!

You're supposed to be a lockstep ideologue, and the second your chosen favorite doesn't do what YOU expect, you must excoriate him mercilessly.

Otherwise, you'll be convicted in the court of partisan opinion as a RESONABLE HUMAN BEING!!!!!

[TwilightGardener]

32. LOL! Someone needs to teach me the rules of the game, I guess.

I just don't think there's anything wrong in any of us admitting when we disagree with our chosen candidate--it might help tone down some of the rancor and defensiveness here between the various supporters to just admit, "Yeah, he/she shouldn't have said that--oh well, no one's perfect."

[MADem]

33. Well, I agree with you. I haven't picked a candidate yet, but I find things to like about ALL of

them, and disagreements, too, but on the whole, I like them all more than I take issue...it's why I can't abide the trash talk about any of them. I do like a reasonable discussion of the issues, though, with the emphasis on reasonable...!

[Scriptor Ignotus]

34. I appreciate the candor

but I think your concern is misplaced. In effect, you are asking Obama to campaign disingenuously in the Dem primary. He is a true uniter. He is someone who will work with people he disagrees with. This is exactly the kind of behavior that attracted me to his campaign in the first place. I don't want 4 more years of partisanship, even if the Republicans "deserve" it.

[TwilightGardener]

35. I agree with you--I think he can heal our divisions in this country.

That said, in the primary, you DO need to be a little "partisan". You need to tell DEMOCRATS (who may not be familiar with you) what you stand for as a DEMOCRAT. Obama is a skilled politician, and thus he generally chooses his words and statements deliberately. All I'm saying is, he could have chosen better examples--why risk alienating gays, or those who feel strongly about global warming, or those (like me) who feel strongly about ending the war, by naming someone who is offensive in these areas? I'm not saying he should lie about his friendship with Coburn, but it's not something I'd boast about to the media during a DEM primary, either. It's minor, though, and doesn't affect my support for him.

[Virginia Dare]

36. wienerdoggie, you are simply the best...n/t

[TwilightGardener]

37. Aw, shucks, thanks...

:blush:

[jefferson_dem]

38. Excellent post!

K&R... :kick:

[jillan]

40. Thanks for posting that -

Our candidates are human - not robots - and they will slip up.
And we won't agree with everything our #1 candidate does.
We will all be better off when we realize that.

[sandnsea]

41. If you can't convince them, then you beat them

As long as he continues to be clear on his methods and talk straight to everybody, then I'll consider this his way of telling people that he isn't going to run as a different person to different groups. This is who he is and who he will be, to everybody.

[Bluebear]

42. And I respect you for it.

More than you know.