littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:49 PM
Original message |
Why Dean supporters should make Dean's mind up for him. |
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With his campaign in a shambles, as he is now going on his third campaign manager,Howard Dean has no chance to win the nomination. At least Carol Mosely Braun, Dick Gephardt, Wes Clark and Bob Graham knew when to get out, so as not to hurt the party's chances. It appears now, that Dean's continued push is fueled more by an ego who can't decide on a graceful exit strategy.
As a former Dean supporter, one of the biggest reasons that I switched my allegiance, was that I became really angry at the way he had run his campaign. I could not stand to go through what I did four years ago with Al Gore, who I felt, at the time had run one of the most inept campaigns I had ever witnessed. Governor Dean now holds that distinction. He had everything going for him and turned it all into a string of third and fourth place finishes. And let's not forget how he squandered over thirty million dollars on Iowa and New Hampshire. He gambled everything on those two states and lost.
Last but not least there is the matter of wanting to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate, yet deciding to skip numerous states to focus only on one. I want a president who is willing to fight for every vote in every state.
To all Dean supporters: Do your candidate and the democratic party a favor and withdraw your support. Place it directly behind John Kerry and let's all go after George Bush.
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rucky
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message |
1. This is gonna go over real well |
mgc1961
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
polpilot
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Tue Feb-17-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
51. Another 'line up with the pro-war DLC' thread 'doesn't matter who he is' |
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'blah...blah..blah..'
Dean '04...
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ibegurpard
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message |
mzmolly
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message |
3. "Second" Campaign Manager... And as a *current* supporter I will urge |
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Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 01:54 PM by mzmolly
him to STAY in this race. Gawd help us all if the choice comes down to Bush v. Kerry.
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NewYorkerfromMass
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message |
4. It takes a leader to tell his supporters where to go. |
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Dean still has a chance to do that.
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mzmolly
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. Kerry still has a chance too. |
Norquist Nemesis
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:54 PM
Response to Original message |
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Did you ask the same thing of Edwards, Kucinich, and Sharpton supporters?
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EXE619K
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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It's simple...process of elimination.
Pick-off the next highest threat and just go down the line from there.
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EXE619K
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message |
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His supporters should choose.
I choose that he stays in the race as long as possible.
If he decides to run as a third party candidate, I will support him there too.
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HFishbine
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message |
8. That takes a lot of nerve |
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Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 01:58 PM by HFishbine
I haven't had a chance to cast a vote in the primaries yet, so I'll respectfully decline your invitiation to reliquish my right to vote, thank you.
Just curious, have you voted yet? (On edit, I see from your profile that your state has already had its primary.)
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. Having outlined numerous reasons why supporters should switch, |
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why then do you still insist?
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Anwen
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
19. Because your arguments are hollow. |
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His campaign is in "shambles" ? Um, last time I checked Dean was in second place behind Kerry. What would be the point of dropping out? I don't quite understand your logic.
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
31. To clarify your clarification |
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Dean is in third place, in committed delegates. As far as my arguments, those are facts. Your support rings hollow.
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Anwen
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
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and he is in SECOND.
Out of curiosity, which of your arguments are facts?? Seriously, I would like to know. Most of it sounds like bitching about the way he ran his campaign and speculating that he has no chances.
My support rings hollow? LOL!!!! Thanks for the laugh ;-)
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Anwen
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Tue Feb-17-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
EXE619K
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
22. Here's a clarification for you. |
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The Dean campaign wasn't just about beating Bush in November.
The entire underlying theme of the movement is change. Change in the Democratic Party for their ineffective stance and their unwillingness to define themselves. Rebellion is what the Dean Camp is about. This is the clear difference between the Dean camp and the other campaigns.
You claim that you once supported Dean.
Well, I guess you missed the message.
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sillymikey
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Tue Feb-17-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
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:yourock: you nailed that one right on the head
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HFishbine
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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But I can't do it within the DU rules. You'll have to use your imagination (think barnyards and excretory functions).
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w13rd0
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
28. What the f** is this? Resistance is futile? |
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Yeah, you are right, supporters should decide. I decide he should stay in all the way to Boston. So KMA, stupid flamebait thread.
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
32. Resistance is futile, and Super Tuesday will prove it. |
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Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 02:27 PM by littlejoe
As for flame bait, since when is it a flame to logically point out several reasons to withdraw support? And why would you be happy about the way he has run his campaign?
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w13rd0
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
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Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 02:32 PM by w13rd0
--wouldn't want to be accused of telling someone where they could go--
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indigo32
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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you've got some facts incorrect. 1. He is not going on his third campaign manager. 2. he did not squander all that money in IA and NH alone. He WAS running a nationwide campaign until he lost in IA.
Second...I think there is a very valid arguement to be made that the Dem party is NOT served well by having a single candidate this early. We need to be in the news criticizing *, the story is far weaker till the convention if we only have one. Bush will be able to start aiming his 200 mill at Kerry that much earlier.
and ALL of this ignores the fact that I don't like Kerry all that much and have EVERY RIGHT to vote how I want in my caucus on Mar 2nd. Come talk to me after the convention.
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Zinnola
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message |
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Kerry will get my absentee vote only. No money or work for his campaign.
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damnraddem
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message |
10. Uh, I think Dean's candidacy is dead, but why should he get out? |
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As with Kucinich, and Mosley-Braun before she dropped out, being in allows him to make his statements. What I say to Dean is that he should not attack Kerry, should take great pains to not hurt Democratic chances. What he should do is continue to attack Dubya -- he (and Kucinich) started the Dems off on that, and they have finally followed along nicely. But here's the thing: the longer the nomination battle, the better. So long as the nomination is in doubt, the Democratic candidates get the attention. That has already paid off big.
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Anwen
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message |
11. I'll do my candidate a favor by VOTING for him |
nomaco-10
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Tue Feb-17-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message |
12. Do you not realize that there is..... |
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nearly 9 months left til the convention? Do you also want Dennis Kucinich, John Edwards and Al Sharpton to get out? If not, why single out Dean? Dean is the best thing to happen to democracy in years, why silence him now? He and the others can speak up and speak out for weeks and months to come, it can only make our party stronger unless you feel he might weaken your candidate, in which case you're admitting your candidate must have flaws that risk being exposed. Let the process play it's self out, it is a good thing not a bad thing to experience real democracy in action.
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burning bush
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message |
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At least, I choose to see it as humorous, because I can't take the content of the message very seriously.
Dean is in 2nd place, and the only reason that I can see for you to ask for him to step down is to remove any challenges to Kerry.
But why should that happen? Why should the primary season be a coronation? It isn't, its a gut wrenching fight for the nomination.
If Kerry doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged battle, maybe his supporters should convince him to drop now...in the interest of the Democratic party, of course.
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diamondsoul
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
23. As a Kucinich supporter, |
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I'll second this post wholeheartedly!
The OP content is pathetic and illogical.
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Egnever
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message |
16. Haha i love the sig line at the end of your bogus post. |
sadiesworld
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message |
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it will be (in effect) a 2 person race. And the media is not going to be pushing the military hero who makes Rove's carefully crafted flyboy look like a cartoon. If you like Kerry, you should want Dean to stay in.
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dave29
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message |
18. But you should make up our mind for us |
littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
42. Just voicing my opinion. |
HFishbine
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
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You're going beyond that. You're advocating that some of us be denied the exression of opinion you've already had an opportunity to exercise in the MO primary.
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Upfront
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message |
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I hope he stays in untill he wins!!!!!!
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Spider Jerusalem
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message |
21. As a Kerry supporter.. |
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I say that Dean should remain in the race. The fat lady may be sucking in a tremendous fucking lungful of air, but she ain't sung yet. Dean and his supporters have made it clear they're in for the long haul. Even if he fails to win a single state in any of the remaining primaries, second and third-place finishes will swell his delegate count and ensure that he has a bargaining position and a voice at the convention, and also that at least some of the concerns of those who support him are incorporated into the eventual party platform. Which, I think, is WHY he's not dropping out. I've never been a Dean supporter, and I dislike many things about him, but I have to say I admire his evident dedication to try to do his best for those who have placed their faith in him and continue to do so.
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Debi
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message |
25. You must've been one hell... |
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of a loyal Dean supporter to jump ship so quickly.
I'll stop supporting Howard Dean when HE tells me he no longer needs my support. How can you walk away from the candidate that taught us to hope again? How can you slam the door on the candidate that let US have a say in his campaign?
Geez, remind me not to take any Titanic cruises with you....I'll be left on deck while you're in a half-filled lifeboat paddling away....but at least you'll be the winner.
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library_max
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message |
26. We need to stop this nonsense. |
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Hold the funeral until somebody has died, please. It is up to Howard Dean to decide when Howard Dean is going to drop out of the race. In the meantime, he has every right to stay in. And his supporters have every right to continue supporting him. Are we trying to antagonize them out of the party?
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
44. You're right. It is up to Dean to decide when to quit. |
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Just like it was up to Micky Mantle and Willie Mays to decide when to quit. You know what happened to them. They embarrassed themselves and their fans. If Howard Dean wants some semblence of relevence, he is going to hasve to make the tough call. Otherwise he will forever be remembered as the politician who blew the presidency.
His supporters should not end up becoming enablers.
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HFishbine
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message |
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Did you become a "former Dean supporter" before or after your state held its primary?
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
HFishbine
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
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Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 02:55 PM by HFishbine
You had an opportunity to express your views at the ballot box. Shouldn't I have the same opportunity?
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Duder
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:22 PM
Response to Original message |
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I've already encouraged the fiesty little bastard to do the Democratic party a favor and fight all the way to Boston. The best you can hope for with Kerry is a replacement not a win, imo.
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BL_Zebub
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message |
33. The Kerry/DLC Borg can assimilate my pointy-tailed ass! |
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Last time I checked, the race wasn't over until all the delegates are accounted for. Kerry's nowhere near that number, so he hasn't won shit.
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Debi
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
36. He's won the Media Sweetheart race |
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And he has most of the sheep following him now.
Why think??? Just vote how Faux tells you to.
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polpilot
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Tue Feb-17-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
52. Baaaa....baaaaaa.....baaaaaaaaaaaa...where's bo peep???? |
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Dean '04...Not for sheeple!!
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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Spider Jerusalem
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
39. Where is the arrogance and entitlement in my post? |
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Please show it to me. (Generalisations are bad.)
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
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Spider Jerusalem
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
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Apparently you're blind. Or maybe just obnoxious. I posted earlier on this thread stating my support of Kerry, and also the reasons why I think Dean should remain in the race. Shouldn't jump to conclusions.
(And the post I was responding to said "Kerry supporters". As I am one, yet am NOT engaging in the behaviour being decried, I found the generalisation unfair.)
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
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Spider Jerusalem
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
47. No need to insult ME. |
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I haven't insulted you, nor, on this thread, have I insulted Dean (nor have I made and calls for him to drop out). And I was supporting Kerry for the Democratic nomination in November 2002, not long after the mid-term elections. Do you always behave like this towards people who've done nothing to offend you, or is this just my lucky day?
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w13rd0
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Tue Feb-17-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
53. My response wasn't a reply to you... |
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...but to the originator of the thread. Is that you? If not, then it's just your lucky day.
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Debi
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Tue Feb-17-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
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(Generalisations are bad.)
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LittleDannySlowhorse
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Tue Feb-17-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message |
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I have the right to support whatever candidate I want. If John Kerry gets the nomination I'll vote for him, but until then I am under no obligation to support him. Come back and talk to me in March. Late March.
On second thought, make it April.
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candy331
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Tue Feb-17-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
54. Kind of odd thinking you have a right telling others what to do |
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isn't it? If that is your decision live with it but let others do the same. Some people don't sell themselves to the highest bidder because they value their own integrity and value others who live by and show the same real integrity. Phonies are a dime a dozen and can be bought in any discount store.
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Debi
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Tue Feb-17-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
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At a Kerry political rally
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
59. I don't know where you live, but where I come from, |
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Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 06:12 PM by littlejoe
people have been telling other people what to do since I can remember. And if the facts allow you to come to the same conclusion I have, then so much the better. And besides, aren't every one of us trying to influence each other?
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Malikshah
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Tue Feb-17-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message |
57. How extremely offensive |
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Just when I think the discourse could not reach a lower level...threads like this get started.
If I were a Kerry supporter I would be deeply troubled by this sentimenet from a fellow supporter.
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Tue Feb-17-04 06:14 PM
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Spirochete
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Tue Feb-17-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message |
58. Some of you people just can't wait |
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to give the microphone back to Bushco with only one target to blast away at, can you. Quickly - lets establish our candidate, and give Rove as much time as possible to tear him down.
I don't think your post is going to work with the Dean supporters on this board. All the ones that would, have already jumped ship - like you.
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littlejoe
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Tue Feb-17-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #58 |
61. Wake up. He's already zeroed in on Kerry. |
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It's ironic, because the republicans understand what's going on. It's time the democrats who don't support Kerry realize it. This is the brutal and honest truth, and if certain dems can't handle it, maybe a refresher course in politics might be in order.
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MercutioATC
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Tue Feb-17-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message |
62. Ummm, no....my allegiances don't shift as easily as others'. |
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As a post above said, this campaign is as much about believing in something as it is about winning. Some seemed to miss that message.
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MurikanDemocrat
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Tue Feb-17-04 08:58 PM
Response to Original message |
63. You were fine expressing your own opinion until you asked others |
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to withdraw their support AND who to then switch it to.
You do Kerry nor Kerry supporters any favors with this.
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