Vermont Judge rules on Dean's sealed records

[Dookus]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040217/ap_on_el_pr/dean_s_papers_2

MONTPELIER, Vt. - A judge ruled Tuesday that neither former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news - web sites) nor the secretary of state had authority to agree to a blanket seal covering 145 boxes of records from his 11 years as governor.


Superior Court Judge Alan W. Cook said Dean and the state must identify the roughly 600,000 sealed documents and describe why each of them is protected by executive privilege. An appeal of the ruling to the state Supreme Court is likely.


"Howard Dean is now getting a lesson in government openness," said Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch, which last fall filed the suit seeking to open the papers.

*************

Good. Long overdue.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Dean is getting a lot of lessons in politics

that's the sad truth.

[polpilot]

15. ..like anti-Iraqi War...anti-DLC...anti-establishment candidates need not

apply!

Dean '04...The anti-Iraqi War...anti-DLC candidate!

[chocolateeater]

2. So how long do you think we'll have to wait

for the State of Vermont's appeal, and Dean's and the State's lawyers going through 600,000 documents, before the judge gets the report so he can decide the case? Breath holding would be inadvisable in this case.

[Dookus]

5. oh, it'll take forever...

I have illusions about that. These papers won't come out anytime soon. I'm just heartened to hear that there's at least ONE judge who understands that the basis of our democracy is open, transparent government.

[Nicholas_J]

13. Not so

If Dean were the nominee

The Bush administration could file for access to certain materials on certain issues, request fast tracking of the case due to time constraints, and get information on specific issues on certain dates (it is easy to get info onw hwat Dean did oncertain dates, and then request materals from dates around that) ANd get the judges to look at t5he info for immediate release.

[Skidmore]

3. When are they going to teach Gov. Bush the

same lesson?

[Dookus]

4. I think Vermont judges have little say in that

[Skidmore]

9. oops...double post. Mods, delete this, please.

[Skidmore]

10. The point being that Judicial Watch doesn't appear

to be too concerned about * learning the same lessons.

[Dookus]

12. Judicial Watch

is a party to the lawsuit against Dick Cheney's sealed energy meeting records.

But instead of arguing that it's OK to seal records because the other guy does, I'd prefer that we go after this kind of secrecy wherever it occurs - whether it be by a Dem or a Repub. Open, honest government is a foundation of our democracy, and is more important than partisan squabbling.

[maxanne]

6. that doesn't matter

only Dean's records matter.

[Dookus]

7. Nonsense

I have been an outspoken advocate of open, transparent government for a long time, and the issue transcends partisanship.

There is currently a lawsuit to unseal Cheney's energy records. I hope it succeeds.

But just because GWB has sealed his records, doesn't mean it's right for Dean to do the same. Being a "straight-shooter" who seals records is oxymoronic. Regardless of what other governors do, Dean was wrong to seal his records like this. Now a judge has told him so.

[stickdog]

8. Hooray!

What a non-issue.

[Dookus]

11. a non-issue?

So you think Cheney is right to seal his energy records? Bush was right to seal his governor's records?

Please explain your thinking on this. I don't understand how someone who is so attracted to a "straight-shooter" who tells the truth can believe that public records belonging to the people should be sealed on a whim by one individual.

[polpilot]

17. Supporting an illegal war in a sovereign country. Now that's an issue!!!

Dean '04...

[Dookus]

20. Yes, that is an issue

but one that nothing to do with the matter at hand. Which is that a judge has told Dean that he didn't have the authority to hide his public records the way he did.

You can try to divert the topic all you want, but the fact remains that this is a victory for advocates of open, honest government.

Do you want to try to explain your feelings on THIS issue? Do you think Dean was correct in sealing his records? If so, were Bush/Cheney correct in doing so?

[AP]

24. Bending over backwards to transfer public wealth to private corporations

is a big issue too.

[killbotfactory]

14. Now we'll learn the truth.

Dean was the real gunman and Oswald was just his patsy.

[polpilot]

19. I hope those records won't show he's a pro-war...pro-DLC stooge?

Dean '04..

[Dookus]

21. well we DO know

that Dean was in the DLC. That's not a secret.

Now how about discussing the issue at hand, instead of trying to divert the topic? Do you feel Dean was correct in sealing his public records? Do you disagree with the judge?

[maxanne]

23. no way

Clinton's penis was spotted on the grassy knoll.

[lurk_no_more]

16. When dean drops out

will it matter?

At least we won't have to wait until after he's elected to find out all the dirt since it appears there is no chance of him getting elected.



And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[rucky]

18. Just in time for Dean's political funeral

the irony is, there's probably nothing of concern in there.

I don't blame Clayman for doing what he's doing. I kinda liked Dean taking the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" strategy. Too bad Bush & Cheney have better lawyers than Dean (and appointed the judges).

[Maddy McCall]

39. The point isn't whether or not there is anything in them...

the point IS that he sealed them, which negates the public's ability to peruse them.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

22. The records should be opened. Remember....

John Kerry, John Edwards, and Dennis Kucinich's records are open
to the public and Wes Clark released his military documents.
This is the way it should be. All records OPEN!

[Cuban_Liberal]

25. This has never been a REAL issue, to me.

I frankly don't expect that there's much in them, except what Dr. Dean has indicated. Sorry, folks, but Dr. Dean doesn't strike me as the kind of governor (unlike Bush) who would have much to hide.

[Dookus]

26. that's not quite the point...

I don't think we should be asked to give a pass to public officials sealing their public records based on a hunch that he's a good guy.

The bigger issue, and I have a helluva time getting anybody to even consider it, is that the records belong to the PUBLIC and no individual has the right to hide them. This is true of ALL politicians at all levels from all parties.

Either we believe in open, transparent government or we do not. I see no reason to make exceptions for people we're fond of.

[Cuban_Liberal]

27. It really IS the point, though.

We either recognize 'executive privilege' as legitimate, or we don't, fundamentally. Dr. Dean's application of the principle may well have been overly-broad, as the judge said today, but to somehow imply (as many here have) that Dr. Dean is 'hiding something' is as repellent as the suggestions that Sen. Kerry was allegedly having an affair with an intern, IMO.

[Dookus]

28. I haven't said

he's hiding something, other than whatever's in those sealed documents. I've never made a claim that there's something injurious to his campaign in there.

I'm talking about the bigger issue - that public officials don't have the right to seal the work product of their tenure from their employers - the people.

However, Dean raised the question himself when he said that part of the reason for sealing the records was that he didn't want anything politically damaging to come out during the campaign.

Cuban_Liberal - if it's OK for Dean to seal his records, do you extend the same courtesy to Dick Cheney? Or should the rules only apply to politicians you disagree with?

[Cuban_Liberal]

29. I didn't mean to imply that YOU had, Dookus.

In answer to your last question first, yes, I believe that ANY VP or POTUS (or governor) has a limited right to claim executive privilege as regards their work product. How broad it is, what time period it can be invoked, etc. are all open to debate, but I fundamentally believe in the doctrine of executive privilege.

Dr. Dean is probably right that there is information contained in those records that might be politically damaging to his candidacy. the same is likely true about Sen. Edwards' or Sen. Kerry's personal (work product) files. Until such time as the sauce for the goose becomes the sauce for the gander, this whole 'what's he hiding' attack that SOME people here at DU (NOT you) use against Dr. Dean smacks of the rankest sort of hypocrisy, IMO.

[Maddy McCall]

34. The only hypocrisy I see here in this whole situation is that Dean thinks

it's ok to criticize the records of his opponents while his records remain under seal. THAT is hypocrisy.

[killbotfactory]

36. Yeah, it's not like he's ever made public statements...

Or enacted laws...

Or released most of the documents already...

What's he hiding, and who won't he kill to keep it secret?

[Dookus]

37. the bigger

issue should be divorced from the individual involved.

We are all better served by having our government be open and transparent. That USED to be a solid liberal ideal. Now because a Dem has sealed his records, a lot of people think it's OK.

It's not. It's not OK when Bush does it. It's not OK when Cheney does it. It's not OK when Dean does it.

[Maddy McCall]

33. Yes, Dookus, I agree....

Dean has been quite hypcritical on this front. He likes to point out what he considers flaws in other candidates' legislative record--all the while his records never were open for the same scrutiny.

Even in Mississippi, those of us involved in state government know that we had better have our records open and accessible to the public, or we face tons of negative publicity and exorbitant fines. We don't mind, though, because the whole purpose of our elected and appointed offices is to to serve the people of our state. Dean should see it the same way.

[Dookus]

35. We had a HUGE thread on this last month

and I was practically beating my head against the wall trying to get people to separate the issue from the individuals involved.

This has NOTHING to do with whether or not Dean is a good guy or a bad guy, whether he's a Democrat or a Republican, whether you like Dean or don't like him.

It's about a basic tenet of our democracy - that our elected officials work FOR US.

However, the most prevalent knee-jerk response was to defend sealing records simply because it was Dean who had done it.

It's astonishing that so many liberals are willing to accept secretive government when it involves their chosen candidate.

[genius]

30. Excellent. And since Dean won't be the nominee, the truth won't hurt

I figured these would get opened after he was in or out.

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. They're not opened yet, and still may not be.

The judge basically just said "Give me a summary of what's in these, so I can rule intelligently".

[Maddy McCall]

32. Even Mississippi has sunshine laws that apply to all branches of st. govt.

Looks like we are more progressive than Vermont yet again.

Get ready, Dr. Dean. Your shit is about to hit the very public fan.

[oxymoron]

38. Long overdue indeed!

I don't know how I missed this story. Thanks for posting this Dookus.