Edwards Evening News - "Tough truths must be spoken" (8/29/07)

[jsamuel]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/29/194747/325

Edwards Evening News - "Tough truths must be spoken"
by okamichan13
Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 09:08:58 PM CDT

Welcome to the Edwards Evening News! As usual lot of news today on a range of issues including speaking out strongly on Iraq, New Orleans, lobbyists, and his trip to Georgia along side former President Carter.

1. "Tough truths must be spoken." - John Edwards in today's USA Today article

2. "No timetable, no funding. No excuses." - Edwards on Iraq

3. "This is a national disgrace." - Edwards on New Orleans (while Bush celebrates success)

4. "In tune with American opinion" - Gallop on Americans agreeing with Edwards that lobbyists should be rejected.

5. "A candidate whom I really admire" - former President Carter praises Edwards in Georgia

more...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/29/194747/325

[Rodanthe]

1. Edwards was doing great

up until #5.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. I don't have a problem with it.

Jimmy Carter is a man I really admire. When one goes back and look at the unvarnished record, he did a lot of good things that led to improvements and successes that The Human Box of Rocks took credit for.

[Rodanthe]

4. He totally fucked up mid eastern relations

when he brought the Shah of Iran to this country as a political exile. That was the catylyst for much of what is wrong in the Mid-East today. Even as a democrat, you can't justify that move, can you?

[venable]

8. the problems in the Mid-East were not caused by anything Carter did

an I'm a little surprised to hear this opinion. (and is it meant to diminish the importance of his praise of Edwards? If so, what can we say about Ethel, who is being regarded in the other thread as The Oracle)

As for Carter: He was stuck with the hostage situation, and his military botched the rescue.

I would, rather, point to the Camp David Accords.

[Rodanthe]

10. Carter was stuck with the hostage situation. I'm not denying that.

However, I am going on record as stating that his position with regard to the Shah of Iran created the condition which allowed the hostages to be taken in the first place.

(How strict is this board on thread-jacking, btw? - I realize we are a bit off topic, but I think it's important to impress that an endorsement from Carter could very well be the kiss of death for a candidate and I'm willing to state why)

[Greyhound]

16. You are aware the man won the Nobel Peace Prize for what he accomplished in the ME, aren't you?

Perhaps the life of our Dictator was the price. :shrug:

ETA: our

[sandnsea]

3. President Carter is a national treasure

But his kind words didn't do much for Howard.

[Rodanthe]

5. I admire Carter as a humanitarian and as a human being,

but as President, he sucked eggs.

Oh and before you jump on me for being a troll or something: Noam Chomsky agrees with me.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

6. Part of the reason is he had 0 Washington experience and did not deal with Congress effectively...

Aren't we told these days that experience means nothing?

[Rodanthe]

7. I honestly have never analyzed the reasons WHY Carter was

so ineffectual as a President. What's your opinion? Assuming, of course, that you agree he was ineffectual as a President.

[venable]

9. my opinion - though you didn't ask me - is two-fold:

1) he was not the bad president he is reputed to be

and

2) his concentration on human rights did not funnel money to the military-industrial complex, so he was sabotaged.

[Rodanthe]

11. most presidents are known for one single incident in their presidency

above all else: JFK: Bay of Pigs; LBJ: Gulf of Tonkin; Nixon: Watergate; Ford: Mayaquez; Carter: the hostages/the Shah of Iran

He can't separate himself from his legacy, so why burden a potential candidate with it? I like Edwards. I just don't think an endorsement from Carter is going to seal the deal

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. I happen to know...

From an Air Force Colonel, former fighter wing commander, who was involved in command and control that day, that the story of the failure of the desert rescue is, in reality, far, far different from the one that was reported at the time and that is now part of history.

Two reasons: Command and Control sabotage at the highest levels of the US military and Frogfoots.

[JDPriestly]

17. Was Colonel North somehow involved in destroying Carter's presidency?

This is a bit off topic. But I feel obliged to respond to those who disparage Carter unfairly. The sources on this are somewhat speculative. Perhaps we will never know the truth. But here is one theory.


On April 23, 1980, an abortive Iranian hostage rescue mission took place, conducted under the utmost secrecy. The plan was to storm the American embassy in Tehran, and bring home the hostages.

. . . .
At least three central figures in the Iran-Contra Scandal were involved with the Iranian hostage rescue mission: Secord, Hakim, an North.


. . . .
According to the October Surprise theory, Secord, North and Hakim did not intend Desert One to carry through. The miserable failure of Carter's Desert One rescue attempt may have been deliberate.

http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/104

Earlier in 1980, Carter set out to free the hostages with "Operation Eagle Claw," built around a surprise helicopter landing and secret assault on the building where they were held in Teheran.

. . . .

Unfortunately, the operatives in charge of Desert Claw may not have been loyal to Carter -- or to the U.S. Carter had deeply alienated a broad range of CIA operatives by trying to clean up the Agency when he first came to power. Admiral Stansfield Turner, the tough but honest Navy man Carter put in charge at the CIA fired some 600 "spooks" soon after taking command. Many were deeply loyal to former Director George Bush and to the "Old Boy" network that serves as the Agency's true infrastructure.

That loyalty may have carried over to sabotage of Operation Eagle Claw. For the man who served as chief mission planner was none other than Richard Secord, who later surfaced as a major kingpin in the shady arms dealings between the Reagan White House and the contras of Nicaragua. A top staffer at a key base in Eagle Claw's catastrophic helicopter support operation was none other than the legendary Colonel Oliver North. Working closely with him as a logistical planner was Albert Hakkim, who later sat by Secord's side at the Congressional Iran-contra hearings and wept of his love for Oliver North.

http://www.geocities.com/omegareport/Authors/04-Moore-g.htm

Carter was also disliked because he wanted to wean American off oil. Had he succeeded in implementing his plan at that time, we would be far less dependent on foreign oil at this time --- and much better off. Carter was not such a bad president. The American people were foolish and elected Reagan. The rest is history.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. The Hopkins piece misses one important point...

One that the colonel stressed, over all:

The Soviets had told the US that if we mounted a mission in Iran, there could be hostilities. Very could. Not only were there orders given, on the command and control net that, while supposedly from mission commanders, were not from those involved in the mission's chain of command and directly conflicted with the lawful orders and created deadly confusion, but the Russians knew where the desert refueling site was and jumped them, while on the ground, with Frogfoots, thus creating the destruction and chaos and failure of the mission.

It might be noted that the ersatz commanders had all the codes and authenticators for the mission. Coincidence and lucky guessing, I am sure.

[JDPriestly]

22. I do not understand "jumped them . . . with Frogfoots."

Please explain. Also please state your source for this information. Thanks.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

23. Frogfoot:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/su-25.htm

This was the word the gentleman used. He may have been using it as a generic identifier for any air-to-ground attack fighter.

Source:

Who shall remain nameless, is explained in my first post of this sub-thread.

[Rodanthe]

20. I have no doubt that you are correct, but what you know

means a hill of beans when compared to public perception. Hell, a lot of people think Ronald Reagan did a swell job. How many realize that the man should have been impeached and more for his role in Iran/Contra?

As we have seen from past presidential elections (and politics in general), often times the truth doesn't really matter. It's what the public believes and too many times, what they believe is shit.

[sandnsea]

12. Better than either Bush, Reagan, Ford,

Nixon, Hoover...

Regardless of what Noam Chomsky has to say about it, who I don't agree with half the time anyway.

[saracat]

14. What makes you think Noam Chomsky is particularly respected on DU ?

Many think he is a loon. Just saying.

[Rodanthe]

21. He's no rightie, though.

I thought that was the criteria for posting here.

[JDPriestly]

15. Jimmy Carter was unfairly blamed for the economic

damage caused by increases in oil prices. He had nothing to do with those increases. Nixon's policies had a lot to do with them.

Carter was also unfairly blamed for the problems in Iran. Those problems were also due to the policies of administrations prior to his. Carter was a good man. He did not present himself as a man of strength. Since he left office, we have seen Jimmy Carter respond with strength and wisdom on many issues.

I do not like Carter's recent book on Israel. I support Israel. It seemed to me that Carter was peeved by the fact that recent Israeli leaders did not flatter and confide in him as much as he would have liked. I think that Carter let his hurt ego prevent him from fairly assessing the Israeli/Palestinian situation. I also think that Carter viewed the Israeli/Palestinian situation in the light of the history of the Palestinian people, but not in the light of the history of the Israeli people. That I found to be biased.

Other than that, I think that Carter's appreciation of Edwards is a positive sign. Carter is a man who can make mistakes but who generally has a lot of wisdom and compassion.

[waiting for hope]

19. I love how he talks about

the role of religion and the role of politics - he is so spot on. Habitat for Humanity to me is a wonderful humanitarian venture - it takes courage of conviction to do that and there are many things to admire about Jimmy Carter.