Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC

[madfloridian]

I don't often go there, but happened to go there tonight.

The Florida Progressive Coalition has a link to this article which is posted there.

Florida Progressive Coalition

Florida Blasts Dean
Published by Mike Huss 29 August 2007 in General Information.
The Florida Democrats page has an article that blasts Howard Dean and suggests that he be removed from office “Anyone standing with Howard Dean after the Democratic convention may be out of a job like him”. Howard Dean has been a uniting force for the democrats as well as someone who has been expanding our base of supporters, both of which Florida desperately needs. This article , as well as talk like it, is going to be devistating long term to the Florida democratic party. We all can be upset about the situation, but really are there some people, specifically Bill Nelson, that are trying to get floridians to leave the party.

I decided to ignore the situation a few days, but the emails are not letting me. I don't want to stop them because I want to know the latest.

It is geared to anger and turn people against the DNC. I suspect from some things I am reading that it is getting personal about Howard Dean now because he crossed Florida leaders.

Actually he was at this Unity Conference in Nevada, but of course that doesn't matter. He did call and try to work with the leaders often well before the vote was taken about the primary. They blew him off.

The email they sent to withhold donations, which was verified to me verbally, was meant to anger.

Florida leaders urging party members not to donate to the DNC

We need to impress on the DNC that they must to change their minds. More is at stake here than the delegates. The Republicans would rejoice if we don’t go to the polls since their tax package is also on the ballot! The DNC phone# is [phone]. The contributions # is [phone]. They need to hear from you- all of you- on this issue. Please forward this to anyone on you email list that you think would be interested."

Today it was verified that they fear the Republicans tax package more than they respect our party's leader. I would say to them to stand up and tell the people what is in it...send out emails telling them the evils of the tax package...educate them. Don't try to hurt the party.

Here is the front page for the Florida Democratic Party.

Florida Democratic Party

Here are just some of the articles. All one sided, all of them articles that are geared to anger people who actually the national committee took the votes away.

08.29.07 Time to call their bluff: Florida Democrats should force national party to show its cards Full Story
08.29.07 ‘Ooh, punish us some more.’ Full Story
08.29.07 Editorial: Screamin’ mad Full Story
08.28.07 Controversy over Florida’s early presidential primary doesn’t deter candidates Full Story
08.28.07 Editorial: DNC’s foolish slighting of Florida Full Story
08.28.07 Florida lawmakers unanimous in vow to support voters’ rights Full Story
08.28.07 Editorial: DNC overreaches on primary issue Full Story
08.27.07 Democratic state lawmaker compares party to GOP, Katherine Harris Full Story
08.27.07 Fla. Democrats May Outlast Howard Dean Full Story
08.27.07 Will Dean’s War on Florida Backfire? Full Story

They nowhere mention that a Florida Senator was caught on tape on the Senate floor making fun of his own amendment, just like a House Democrat did. They laughed away their own amendments that would have kept the DNC from sanctioning them.

sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber.

From the transcript:

The DNC members had handouts that included quotes by House Minority leader Dan Gelber brushing off Howard Dean, and the following transcript of Steve Geller making the motion to move the primary to Feb. 5:

Geller: "...So the Democratic leader and the Democratic leader pro tem are jointly making this motion, which we will duly show them later, that we tried not to have the election on, um, before (Feb. 5).

President: "And so Sen. Geller are you urging a negative vote or would you like us to pass this vote?"

]Geller: "Oh no sir. We really, really want this. Don't we senator? (sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber).

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/08/kiss-democratic.html

Get that? It was introduced as a joke, as he said, a way to be able to later tell the DNC they "tried."

And in the House it was the same way. Here is a snip from an email from a member with what the Rules Committee knew at the meeting.

1. Florida Democratic Legislators sponsored the bill to move the primary to January 29th;

2. Florida House Democratic Legislators voted in committee three times for the bill to move the primary to January 29;

3. All but one Florida House Democratic Legislator vote on the floor to move the primary to January 29; and,

4. Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after receiving a call from DNC Chair asking for help in opposing setting the primary date before February 5, “I don’t represent Howard Dean.”

5. Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5th, that the only reason he offer it was “to show that there was an attempt to state within the Democratic Party rules.” The amendment failed on a voice vote with no debate being offered.

6. Florida Senate Democratic Legislators voted in committee to move the primary to January;

7. Florida Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller stated on the Senate floor that he was offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5 only because he was threatened by DNC Chair Howard Dean. Sen. Geller than mocked his own amendment which failed on a voice vote without any debate.

I wanted to be so proud of this party and its win in 06. We were all excited about the win. No one was claiming any special credit until James Carville stepped in and said Dean should be fired and replaced with Harold Ford.

Now the Florida Democrats are spreading anger in a deliberate way. And few care.

I want to be proud of the party. I am proud that they told Florida that they can not have firsties because they voted for the rules last year. They knew from the beginning that sanctions were automatic, and yet they still go on with this.

I don't think they realize the full import of what they are doing, and that the ones who support it now will get tired of being fed the hatred and anger.

[jaysunb]

1. This is very disappointing...

We've worked really hard to make the party strong and viable in all 50 States, and now the very people that are somewhat responsible for the mess we're in now, are sabotaging our unity efforts.

I don't mean to offend anyone in Florida, but I can't help but feel lots of betrayal & frustration.

on edit:

I found this over at KOS, and grabbed my tinfoil hat.... :evilgrin:
http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/08/how-much-influence-will-florida-have.html

[madfloridian]

3. I will be attacked by two groups for this stance.

One group will be the ones who don't like Democrats anyway and are pushing Green or another third party.

The other group are the centrists here who wanted to keep the smoke-filled rooms making decisions. Keep the rabble out and the decision makers in.

I don't think they realize what they are doing.

Interesting article you posted. Remember the new theme for the party...a New Map out West.

[jaysunb]

6. The "map out west " may be

the only thing that saves us in 08.

I personally believe the ground work has already been laid for scandalous tactics in some of the eastern and midwestern states, but I don't think they fore saw losing the number of Western states like Colorado, N.M., Montana, Arizona,Nevada...and I suspect Utah. ( don't laugh)

We shall see....

[madfloridian]

8. It might also be vital because the Florida election system is in GOP control.

Totally and completely. The Secretary of State is in total charge, and does not have to answer to anyone but the governor. Not even the legislature.

[cobalt1999]

14. Look in the mirror.

You claim you'll be attacked by those who "want to keep the smoke-filled rooms making decisions. Keep the rabble out".

It's just the opposite. That's what YOU are advocating over and over and over. You want the DNC backroom committee meetings telling each state their assigned position and priority in the primaries. The rabble are the voters in the state saying "NO". You want to keep them out.

Have you even seen any polls in our state? Both Democrats and Republicans here are rebelling against the backroom "we know better than you unwashed masses when to vote" decisions they make, and then they get to add the punishment for anyone who has the audacity to challenge them.

Personally, I'll side with what the voters want over some national smoke-filled committee meeting room decision. I guess everyone getting a fair say and legislators listening to their constituents is something you "backroom committee democrats" just can't handle.

[William769]

17. Me too!

And thats why I'm glad we are going after the DNC.

[jmp]

22. Shhh!!! If we do not worship the DNC ...

Our crops won't grow.

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. What has the Florida Democrats in charge done to insure a paper trail?

For everyone? Why don't they earn the right to represent all Democrats? They remind me of Homeowner Association Boards of super developments, which are not mandatory, but still jump up and claim to represent all tens of thousands of homeowners, even though they've done nothing to protect common grounds, except for the signage.

[redqueen]

44. They seem to be using the Bush method

Scare or trick people into supporting you.

Sad to see it working so well...

[brg5001]

61. The bill that moved the primary up ensured a paper trail.

This is according to a statment made by Rep. Corrine Brown yesterday on NPR's Talk of the Nation.

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. Oh, that's precious.

All this time they were complaining that they didn't have enough time to install the appropriate machines, and now they're claiming that they might miss their window of opportunity if they don't do it early? Puh-lease. Maybe I'm too smart to be a Floridian. Where the hell did my tribe go?

[brg5001]

69. I honestly, really wasn't trying to be snarky

I was just answering your question. You asked what Dems in Florida had done to ensure a paper trail.

But I do think it's zany to think that all of Florida's Dems hate other Democrats. We just don't like the rules that we agreed to, and in the end, no matter what, we have zero power to change them whether we laugh at the introduction of a resolution or vote in favor or against, it doesn't matter because we can't agenda items in the Legislature. We don't control Tallahassee.

That's why I posted my own thoughts further down. I'm actually a Floridian, just not a mad one. I'm a happy one!! We'll be at the convention and we'll be heard so in the end, all this is just a silly soap opera to me. I've got bigger fish to fry but just wanted to get my 2 cents in...I honestly think it will be irrelevant by Election Day 08.

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. On some merits, I'd agree, but this isn't an exclusive Democratic problem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1688359&mesg_id=1688359

The RNC is applying the same sanctions to the Republicans in Florida.

[cobalt1999]

54. I know it's not just a democratic problem or a Dean issue.

In spite of how some people are trying to spin this, the same thing is happening to the RNC and it's leader.

Personally, I don't want my vote to count more than someone else, nor do I want it to count less. It's just about getting a fair say in the process.

To me, if that means some short term chaos for BOTH the Republican & Democratic National Committees, so be it. Maybe both Rep & Dem national committee members will take the individual voters into consideration when making our decisions next time. (I still can't believe some democrats prefer backroom decisions over an open vote of the people)

I happen to like Dean and think he's doing a great job. I want him to continue. I would really have liked to vote for him in 2004, but, as a Floridian, I had the choice of Kerry and, well, Kerry. Even without delegates, I'll have more say so than in 2004...which was NONE.

[The Backlash Cometh]

65. Don't talk to me about open votes of the people vs backroom

deal making. If the Florida Democrats claim that this is about breaking with backroom decision-making, it would be the first time it's done so in recent memory. They are famous for backroom deal-making. Just ask Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. She gave an interview and boasted about the cozy relationship the Florida Republicans and Democrats have with one another.

[cobalt1999]

67. LOL. No. Politics in Florida is all backroom.

and I certainly don't agree with my state party on many issues. This time I like what they are doing just because it will force change. If not, someone else will have to rebel 4 years from now.

What is odd though, is all these committee members heard the complaints about 2004, sounded like they were going to address it, then after disappearing behind closed doors, not only did nothing significant happen but they all came out voting for it. What went on in those national meetings anyway? Why the quick and unanimous dismissal of concerns? Why did Iowa and NH stay first? Someone must have done some serious arm-twisting in those meetings.

I don't blame people for wanting to rebel after that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

71. Everything is political. Even the Florida Dems power play is political.

Any state who gets to vote in the primary first, has an impact on every other state because undecided voters take the winners into consideration. The question I have as an independent, watching over all of this, is that Florida doesn't deserve the chance to have another major impact on another major national election. I live here, I know how screwed up the politcal-economic environment is at the local and state level. These people thrive on acting dumb to get away with far too many things. And it's not just political. It's endemic. Christ, in Orlando, they actually pulled an intelligent blonde woman off the air as a newscaster because she was too "uptown" for Orlando! That's the answer they gave! She was blonde and I still tuned in to listen because her intelligence did come across on the news, but that was the very reason they pulled her off the air!

These people revel in pretending to be dumb and then they slip their hand in your pockets when your guard is down. I'm inclined to believe that both the Florida Dems and Republicans knew what they were doing before they made that vote. Both national parties beware.

[MagsDem]

82. You've hit the nail on the head

The DNC needs to broaden it's primaries to more than the traditional states we've had forever -- I think many will agree with that. But Florida? Oh hell no. The combo of election fraud, stupid, stupid, Dems in charge of election boards, and a huge population of elderly and sometimes senile voters... well, it's just a bad idea. Sorry Floridians. Much as I love visiting your lovely state, I sure as hell don't want it playing a larger role in determining the Dem nominee.

[The Backlash Cometh]

83. I agree with everything except the "senile" seniors.

They're not senile. Just incredibly gullible, yet tightwads when it comes to taxes. They don't want to spend a penny on anything, but expect everyone else to come out for them and take care of their needs, and it's that moment when they become easy prey. When they need help. You have two things happening. First, that they are an important voting block, and, second, that they are easy prey to the scam artists. So on one end, they're no help when it comes to building a community because they do not want to financially help build the infra-structure, but they're easy game to any politician or schister that knows how to play the game and talk to them on an individual, personal level.

[ronhardy]

84. "Freddie's Dead" - There is no Democratic Party anymore

"Freddie's Dead" - There is no Democratic Party anymore......

There's just Corporate America versus "We The People." There is no "two-party system" anymore.
There's just political whores at the top of both parties. Just look at the DNC and DLC.

Just look at former DNC Chair Terry McCauliffe - now Hillary's campaign manager:

Party Favors - The Political Business of Terry McAuliffe

http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair10192004.html


[e-mail]

http://www.roncorvus.com

http://www.roncorvus.com/peoplesplatform.htm

[derby378]

2. Has Karl Rove been spending time in Florida?

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

4. Maybe not Rovian tactics....but very similar.

Can't have those upstart activists who got active because of Howard Dean getting too uppity.

[jaysunb]

5. That's my initial reaction....

I've long thought the Party had been infiltraited ( or DLC'd ) in many areas of the country.
As some of your previous posts have pointed out, the DNC has had to sue to get the party offices back, so, I think my skeptisim is justified.

I don't put Rove--personally-- at the head of every dirty trick, but I know his tactics are documented and practiced at every level. I put NOTHING past these traitors.

[madfloridian]

7. He helped bail the Florida party out when Thurman took over.

I forget the figures, but have them somewhere. Yes, I know which post you mean....and we should not forget how bad things had gotten.

This one.

Dean had to get 12 state parties out of bankruptcy, pay unpaid debt, get padlocks off doors.

[madfloridian]

9. It has happened here in Florida.

This is Bill Nelson's party. I see you and I are talking to ourselves here.

Being ignored by others.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

10. I've been reading most your topics

on this matter, tho kept quiet for the most part as there is little i've had to say

I fully back your view and stance on this manner tho as i find the current behavior of the Florida Democratic party to be a disgrace

[LittleClarkie]

11. We already know certain elements in the DLC don't like Dean much

I guess Carville isn't DLC per se, but as a former Clinton person, I put him in that category.

I feel like this is an attempt to weaken Dean by those who've resented him for a while now.

Well, perhaps that's too strong. Let's just say that certain folks don't seem to respect his leadership much.

[bluedog]

23. probably GOP moles inside.they are loving this crap n/t

[tkmorris]

12. I have fucking HAD IT with Nelson

At this point this whole charade is nothing more than a blatant attempt to eliminate Dean and turn the Democratic party more towards the right. Why the hell do they pick NOW to create a party civil war? This is just so stupid I cannot even get my head around it.

One thing is clear. These people do not care one WHIT about the Democratic party or its ideals. They care about themselves. Period. It's time for some new blood. Nelson has to go, as does my local state Rep, the (dis) honorable Ted Deutsch.

[demoleft]

13. Divided you may fall - a little example from Italy...

...where months before 2006 elections the centre-left coalition had the biggest advantage against Berlusconi.

Due to provocation and progressives' inner polemics, Berlusconi was able to recover in the public opinion.
We won with a +20000 votes, almost nothing. And in fact our majority in Parliament is extremely feeble.

So you US Dems don't go on like that, lest a brilliant Rep candidate should appear more reliable and recover Bush's gap.
Don't rest on your advantage. Stay united.

[redqueen]

18. Thank you.

Perhaps you might consider posting this in a thread of its own.

:hi:

[demoleft]

21. I'll write something. Thanks!

:hi:

[madfloridian]

24. Sorry, demoleft....it is a power play by one state.

They don't want to be united. The instigator, Bill Nelson, has a higher rating among Republicans anyway, so hurting the DNC does not bother him at all.

People actually are believing now that their votes won't count, and that's a sad thing for Florida to do.

There won't be a coming together on this.

[demoleft]

75. I hope it won't damage Dems in the final match against the Rep candidate.

I see your point - generally speaking, as I don't know all the characters in the story.
I fear that Dems may have been to early in advantage against Bush. That causes less carefulness.

That's why I said "keep united". The more the better. A Giuliani or other Rep candidates might prove more reliable to the public in the long run - and it is still a long run.

I hope you make it, anyway. And I hope Dean stays where he is, as I like the man.
:hi:

[loudsue]

15. Then it is up to us to make the biggest stink the party has ever seen!

It's time to write letters by the millions, and even hold demonstrations around the country. This is a battle for the heart of the party...it's either going to be WE, THE PEOPLE, or it's going to be corporate big boys calling the shots.

Republican infiltrators handily managed to marginalize our party structure so that the people had NO SAY in party politics with the DLC infiltration. It's time to fight like the gates of hell have been opened. Dean has had to go to COURT in some states to get back control of the party from those who would tie our hands. We must NEVER let that happen again. They're counting on the party base to play nice and be politically correct while they steal the party back, and it's up to us to make sure it doesn't happen.

If it's going to be a contest, I say let's bring the fight right to their door, and make sure that Democratic voters in Florida KNOW what their "leaders" in that state are trying to do, and that we'll fight with them to make sure we maintain control, and not the fucking Bill Nelsons of the party.

This is a call to battle! Let's do it! And let's call it what it is....a REPUBLICAN INFILTRATION by the DLC!!

:kick:

[cobalt1999]

16. The leaders in this state are doing exactly what their constituents are demanding.

Look at any poll on this issue here. Both parties have over 2 to 1 approval by THE PEOPLE.

It's you who are telling the legislators NOT to listen to the voters and to listen instead to the RNC & DNC national committee decisions instead.

Really democratic of you. I'll side with the voters if you don't mind.

[redqueen]

19. What percentage of voters are being polled?

I know LOTS of people who vote who don't pay a bit of attention what goes on behind the scenes during the primaries.

[madfloridian]

25. When they are polled...it is more like do you want your vote to count.

That's spin right there.

[redqueen]

43. *sigh*

Yeah, I shoulda seen that comin, huh?

[bluedog]

26. wheres the polls youspeak of?

I'm a Pinellas county Florida voter///and have not seen any polls in the paper here or from a phone bank.......

[jaysunb]

63. Where & Why was this initiated in the first place ??

Were the folks in Florida walking arounding saying, " hey, let's move our primary up ? " I seriously doubt it.

This is nothing more than an attempt to see to it that Clinton & Gulliani get a large chunk of delegates. Plain and simple.

[salib]

20. Everyone, Show your support for Dean: Send the DNC more money!

I just did, another $100.

[jmp]

27. That should cover the shortfall from Florida. (nm)

...

[madfloridian]

93. We did, but most people simply don't care enough to bother.

They are too busy fighting over 08 to see the picture.

[rudy23]

28. Is this the first (or one of the first) major shots in the war between the DLC and DNC?

Remember, Carville went after Howard Dean the DAY after the '06 elections.

[redqueen]

45. Yeah, I remember that all too well. It really is shocking

to see so many supporting his position. His support is pretty much a red flag, IMO.

[populistdriven]

29. ARRGH!

Canceling my Florida Democratic Party MasterCard unless someone talks me out of it.

http://www.demcard.com/app/japply/lp/12942.jsp?state=FL&obchannel=005

[madfloridian]

30. After a couple of emails I got today....I won't argue with you.

I look at them and think when did our Florida Dems become so hateful.

It's sad.

[jmp]

31. When Howard Dean stole their votes (nm)

...

[redqueen]

46. Which is honest? Your sig or your comments? n/t

[jmp]

49. Both are honest. Consider it ...

Ironic vengeance. :)

[redqueen]

55. Vengeance for what? n/t

[jmp]

57. Stealing Florida's delegates. (nm)

...

[redqueen]

58. Stealing?

Is it really?

You sure that's not spin?

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. Shouldn't the fact that the RNC is also penalizing Republican states for

early primaries, deflate them a bit?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1688359&mesg_id=1688359

[jmp]

35. Get back to me when they pull the trigger.

And I wouldn't suggest holding your breath in the meantime. This mess is manna for the GOP. They are not going to return the gift.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. If the media would report on the sanctions placed on the Florida Republicans,

this wouldn't be manna at all. It would deflate them. But, hey, no one has ever said that Democrats have made a career of underutilizing their best weapons in a fight.

[jmp]

42. The RNC has not placed ANY sanctions on Florida.

...

[The Backlash Cometh]

66. Did you read the article?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1688359&mesg_id=1688359

[madfloridian]

33. Now NH is furious with Dean. Unbelievable.

Here's everyone at DU talking about white NH and IA getting the attention, and NH is pouting because two diverse states were stuck in...

Note the ugly reference to the "right kind of nominee"...I find this amazing. Sometimes you can't win for losing.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=The+Undemocrats%3A+After+Florida%2C+who's+next%3F&articleId=62b309bd-385b-4308-8b74-fa4d4cf54485

"THE Democratic Party, having made a complete hash out of the presidential primary schedule in order to stick it to New Hampshire and get the "right" kind of nominee, has now given up any pretense of democracy.

Over the weekend, it voted to disenfranchise the entire state of Florida if its party there doesn't do what its told by Chairman Howard Dean and party bosses. Florida, like many other states, has moved up its primary date in reaction to the national Democrats' own monkeying with the schedule. The fact that the New Hampshire primary and, to a lesser extent, the Iowa caucuses can't be controlled drives Dean and company crazy. Hence, their whining about the two states' lack of "diversity," even though the winners here have often gone on to win the White House.

To lessen New Hampshire's influence, Dean and the DNC decided to jam a Nevada election event between Iowa and us. But that just triggered other states to crowd forward. That may make New Hampshire even more important. But it also means the results from here will be barely digested before a huge bloc of states votes.

It serves Dean right. When he campaigned for the nomination in 2004, he pledged to protect New Hampshire's role, which he praised. Since then, he has done everything possible to destroy it."

(Hey Howard, you are always welcome back at DFA!!)

[jmp]

37. Howard Dean is obviously in over his head.

It was just a matter of time before he had another "Dean moment".

[redqueen]

47. That's funny.

You're a funny person.

[Adelante]

48. I saw something is going on in Michigan, too

Is this a fever spreading from state to state?

I don't understand what is hoped to be accomplished. If this keeps up we'll end up with a national primary on one day and only enormous wealth (as if it's not disgusting already) will determine who our candidates are and who our president will be. This is not good, not good at all, for our democracy.

[madfloridian]

50. I think it is being pushed by a presidential campaign.

I can't prove it.

I am all for a change in the primary system, but bringing down the chairman is not the way to do it.

It is a power play.

[jmp]

52. Yeah, I'll bet it's that crafty Obama.

He's the fund raising leader and would benefit most by a 1 day national primary.

Right?

Or is this the first overt shot in Dean's war on Hillary? :eyes:

[jmp]

51. The DNC can impose spending limits for the primaries.

That should resolve the big money problem.

[Adelante]

53. You would need more than that, wouldn't you?

How would the candidates pay for all the TV ads what would have to replace retail politicking with a national primary? Unless there was a law that networks have to offer them equally and for free. And how would such a DNC spending limit be possible if the RNC didn't do the same? And why would they?

[jmp]

56. Every candidate would have the same maximum budget ...

So if TV ad time is a problem, it will be a problem across the board. We held elections back before TV, so I'm sure it can be done. 30 second TV ads aren't exactly informative anyway.

[Adelante]

59. Before TV it wasn't a one-day primary

It wasn't even a front-loaded primary. Candidates had the time to visit states at primary time. I'll think about it more, but I'm still not getting what good this would do the voting public.

[rateyes]

39. Looks to me like Florida voted for the rules that were put in place

and then decided they didn't have to abide by them. Howard Dean is right on this one.

[madfloridian]

40. Yes, they voted for them.

.

[smiley_glad_hands]

41. I'm with Dean on this.

He has done more for our national party than any leader since Kennedy.

[brg5001]

60. I guess Rep. Corrine Brown also hates Democrats?

The notion that Bill Nelson is trying to destroy the Democratic Party is ridiculous. If that's the case, then Rep. Corrine Brown is also trying to undermine the party, too. Of course, she's not.

The threat to withhold our participation at the national convention is insane and illegal.

"Dems Fight Back, Say Delegates Will Be At DNC"

http://www.news4jax.com/news/13986459/detail.html

Rep. Corrine Brown spoke out on the issue Monday afternoon saying that 27,000 votes from her district were thrown out during the 2000 election and that it's vital to make sure something like that never happens again.

"I am not going to once again let my people get left out. What happened in 2000 is not going to happen again," Brown said.

She said the DNC and the party chairman Howard Dean are to blame for the current problem.

The state's congressional delegation sent a letter to Dean threatening a voting rights investigation in response to sanctions. However, national Democratic officials insist there is no legal basis to force the party to seat delegates in violation of its rules.

"We are going to select delegates, and we are going to Denver … Florida is going to be player in the presidential election; we are going to do it legally or demonstrate and do whatever it takes. We are going to be there," Brown said.

She is leading the charge with state officials. They plan to sue the DNC to make sure delegates are allowed. Brown said Florida Democrats had no say in moving the primary.

"You are not going to tell me what the Republican legislature did is going to effect every single Democrat in the state of Florida. That is unacceptable," Brown said.

[madfloridian]

62. I already posted that.

They are going to destroy Dean. Anyway they can.

Trust me...no one crosses Florida and survives....so far.

[brg5001]

70. Don't be mad, mad

It's okay. I know that we'll be at the convention and all this crazy infighting will cease. Ultimately, we have zero power in Tallahassee whether we laugh, cry, join in, don't join in, sponsor, don't sponsor...we can't agenda jack up there.

By Election Day 08 this will all be done. As for the primary date, I say set it as late as possible. Like the day before the convention, in conjunction with maybe the 10 largest states. Then, even if it's over, it's not over!

[unknownnews]

68. Much ado about nothing

All this primary-jumping is just plain silly, and has nothing
to do with any of the issues that matter come the general
elections. This controversy is pure piffle, soon to be
forgotten. Democrats aren't ninnies, and after the hubbub dies
down, pretty much everyone will see the difference between
right and wrong. 

[madfloridian]

74. I have my doubts that most people have any clue..

what is going on. My email is filled with statements like I want my vote to count, and the DNC stole my vote.

I am afraid they will not eventually understand. They don't pay attention. They are the ones who are anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-anyone who isn't religious. Those people find it easy to accept blatant propaganda.

I feel like crying for my state.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

89. Wait a minute, Madfloridian....

...if you're upset about losing your vote and your voice, you're anti-choice, anti-gay anti-anyone who isn't religious?

I'm pretty upset about this and I don't fall into any of your straw men categories.

If you want to argue this at a level anywhere beyond "the Dem legislators were SARCASTIC, so the entire state should be cut out of voting" (while ignoring the really obvious electoral college impact of that), please try.

But equating someone who is upset about losing their vote with intolerant bigots is going to a new low level that I haven't seen here.

I am not sure why you think this is wonderful or that it should stand. I've followed a number of your posts on a number of threads and you seem only to be concerned about making sure Dean looks good on the issue. There's a hell of a lot more at stake here than that.

[madfloridian]

90. Electoral college?

I did not realize the DNC could be blamed for that now.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0878225.html

You are not concerned that Florida told lies and tried to hurt the DNC's 50 state strategy by drying up donations?

I find that odd.

[truebrit71]

72. How many Dems does FL have in DC? I can't recall off the top of my head...

....I'm sure it ain't too many...

That whole state is batshit crazy....

Fuck 'em if they don't like it...and Bill Nelson can go take a flying fuck at the moon...

[Freddie Stubbs]

73. Try winning the Electoral College without Florida

[truebrit71]

76. Did 'our' guy do that in either of the most recent selections?

Didn't think so...So THIS particular ploy is supposed to help that situation, HOW, exactly?

Fuck 'em...

[madfloridian]

81. I thought this was delegates to the convention?

Are you saying it affects the electoral college? I did not think so.

[jmp]

85. Of course it doesn't.

Treat Florida like garbage, steal its delegates ... and then come back and ask us for our votes.

The DNC's behavior won't impact Florida voters at all. :eyes:

[Romulox]

77. Dean is going to have to excommunicate Michigan too--our new date in Jan. 15

The Michigan House approved the measure to move our primary to Jan. 15 today. Governor Granholm (D) has indicated she is anxious to sign the bill into law.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070830/NEWS06/70830060

[ieoeja]

79. Ohio next.

Republicans in Ohio, seeing that legislatures in Michigan and Florida have decided they can tell a political party how it must choose its presidential nominee, have proposed legislation forcing Ohio delegates to the DNC to support the winner of the Republican primary as the Democratic nominee as well.

[madfloridian]

80. Campaigning at Christmas

December elections....or if the madness continues maybe a Thanksgiving one.

[jmp]

86. Welcome to the democratic revolution ...

We're happy to have you on board. :)

Whether Dean likes it or not ... big states matter too.

[flashl]

78. Floridian walking with his money over DNC protest

Florida fundraiser cancels event to protest threat over presidential primary

WASHINGTON - One of Florida's top Democratic fundraisers has angrily snapped shut his checkbook because the Democratic National Committee has pledged to penalize Florida for holding an early presidential primary.

Jacksonville trial lawyer Wayne Hogan called DNC Chairman Howard Dean on Tuesday to cancel an event that Hogan had planned to host to raise money for the national party.

It is the latest move in a deepening rift between the state and national Democratic parties that has left many political activists mad and national party officials saying that Florida thinks it is above the rules. Florida's scheduled Jan. 29 presidential primary — a date set by the Republican-controlled Legislature — is earlier than the Feb. 5 date both parties have set as the earliest most states can begin voting.

On Saturday, the DNC Rules Committee voted to strip Florida of all its delegates to next summer's nominating convention. It gave the state party 30 days to change its plans or have no delegates to the convention.

[madfloridian]

87. The letters to the editors here are starting.

One today blasting the DNC and Howard Dean, using the very words of the Florida Democrats.

Propaganda really does work.

[jmp]

88. You would be in a position to know.

...

[illinoisprogressive]

91. Who benefits from weakening the DNC and Dean?

[madfloridian]

92. You think I will say that out loud?

You gotta be kidding.