Time to call their bluff: Florida Democrats should force national party to show its cards

[William769]

Chris Hand, Orlando Sentinel

August 29, 2007

The state party's response shouldn't require 30 days, 30 minutes or even 30 seconds. It should consist of one word: no.

Kenny Rogers wasn't thinking about politics when he wrote "The Gambler," but the Florida Democratic Party would be wise to consider that song as it decides how to stay relevant in the 2008 presidential primary process. In the debate over the primary now scheduled for Jan. 29, Florida Democrats have all the cards. It is time for state party Chair Karen Thurman to hold ‘em -- and force Democratic National Chair Howard Dean to fold ‘em.

Last Saturday, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) Rules Committee ordered Florida Democrats to abandon the Jan. 29 presidential primary. They gave the state party 30 days to come up with another way, at a later date, for Democratic voters to select Florida's 210 delegates to the party's August 2008 nominating convention in Denver. If the state party does not comply, the DNC will strip Florida of its delegates and prevent Florida's more than 4 million registered Democrats from having any say about the party's presidential nominee.

The Florida Democratic Party response shouldn't require 30 days, 30 minutes or even 30 seconds. It should consist of one word: no.

While the DNC does not see the negative political consequences of its order, Florida Democrats should not follow them over the cliff. If we want to build on the gains we made last November -- the first Democratic Cabinet member elected since 1998 and the first Democratic pickup of Florida House seats since 1982 -- Thurman and the state party leadership must not shrink from calling the national Democrats' bluff.

Daring the DNC to show its cards will require an intestinal fortitude that was at least partially lacking at Saturday's Rules Committee meeting. In his presentation to committee, one longtime state party activist begged the DNC for "mercy" in its decision. But that humiliating sentiment is dead wrong. Since Florida has more than 8 million registered voters and 27 electoral votes -- a full 10 percent of the 270 electoral votes needed to elect the next president of the United States -- it is time to remind national Democrats that they should be breaking their collective backs to help the Florida Democratic Party rather than treating it like a rented mule.

http://www.fladems.com/content/w/time_to_call_their_bluff_florida_democrats_should_force_national_party_to_s

[madfloridian]

1. Thanks for showing how the Florida Dem website is spreading Dean hate.

That was my point.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

[William769]

3. Protecting our rights, I don't mind at all.

At a time when we should be unified, Dean is taking us down. Get ready for another Dean scream, because it's coming and this time he won't have no one to blame but himself.

[madfloridian]

7. So now DU is becoming a forum to take Dean down.

That's very interesting.

I notice it is the left and right meeting together. If you go to the left far enough and to the right far enough...you meet on the other side.

Greens and DLC. Beautiful.

[William769]

8. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

When you want to knock someone down who is wrong, this is what you end up with.

[madfloridian]

9. So you admit the centrists, so-called, and Greens and other 3rd party folks...

are trying to take Dean down?

That's amazing.

"When you want to knock someone down who is wrong, this is what you end up with." your quote

[William769]

12. What I admit is we are taking on some one who is wrong.

[madfloridian]

23. No, you said it was coming...and all the implications thereof

Your quote:

"At a time when we should be unified, Dean is taking us down. Get ready for another Dean scream, because it's coming and this time he won't have no one to blame but himself."

[William769]

25. As I said if you follow the thread, you get the context.

But we know your famous for a little here and a little there to try to make your case.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

49. This isn't about Dean. It is about Florida having a voice and IA and NH's royal status

If Carville was DNC chair nothing would be different.

[DURHAM D]

13. I don't often disagree with you but

I disagree with you on this one. We need a strong party system if we want to win house and senate seats beyond 2008.

I am tired of hearing "We are Democrats - we don't organize". We have a cult of high-profile personalities speaking for the party - or speaking against the party. When those high-profile personalities lose traction the party is back to square one.

[William769]

14. I respect your opinion.

But telling 4 million voters to fuck off you don't matter, is not a good way to organize, especially when your State has 29 electoral college votes to offer in the General election.

[DURHAM D]

16. Seems like a false argument.

Florida Dems can caucus or convention and get credentialed and in the hall. They need to get busy and stop acting like 4 year olds.

[William769]

17. You think we can caucus? Read this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3487911&mesg_id=3487911

[DURHAM D]

19. Well - that verifies they can caucus.

Sorry about the tax thingie but that is a problem particular Florida and I personally don't care.

[William769]

20. As a Floridian, I do,

[DURHAM D]

22. Sorry - Will. Florida is one of fifty states.

Making property taxes for home owners in Florida a part of the debate for seating delegates at the national convention is just Floridacentric.

No sympathy here.

[Ediacara]

54. First of all Florida has 27, not 29 EVs

And isn't Florida's whiny game essentially telling 120 million other voters to fuck off? You bitch about NH and IA's "Royal Status" but you really just want a royal Florida.

[LittleClarkie]

47. We have a right to break the rules?

Do tell?

Are the Dems in Florida still pretending that the GOP forced them into this, or are they owning up to their half of it yet?

This is a truly bi-partisan fubar.

[PurityOfEssence]

2. Silly me, I thought selfishness, bullying and rule-breaking were Republican traits

Apparently Florida demands the right to do as it damned well pleases with impunity.

How dare we expect members to abide by the rules the rest of us mortals endure.

Three cheers for Howard Dean; at least SOMEONE isn't cowed by rogue states.

[nashville_brook]

4. it was the republican-controlled house/senate that passed the early primary initiative

so, they've done quite a good job at fucking us up.

[madfloridian]

5. Read this. They did not try to fight.

If Florida had tried to fight against the GOP moving the primary....they would not have lost delegates.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Florida laughed and scoffed as they pretended on the floors of the house and senate.

Read carefully.

[Mojorabbit]

32. All the dems

voted for it too.

[nashville_brook]

50. got a link to the tally? i've been trying to find that.

[madfloridian]

51. The Yes vote was 115 to 1, with Democrat Jack Seiler voting No

They did it to be relevant, both parties did.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

This is from March. They also knew the sanctions were automatic, they were told it before the vote.

"House Republicans and Democrats passed the earlier primary bill (HB 537) by a 115-1 vote - a challenge to the national parties that are wielding threats in an attempt to prevent a nationwide race for earlier and earlier primaries.

.."Florida lawmakers believe the state's demographic and political diversity merit a greater say in the selection of nominees. They're tired of candidates treating the fourth-largest state as a fundraising ATM, only to take the money to campaign in small states like Iowa and New Hampshire. And they say they are willing to call the bluffs of the national parties, which have threatened to take away delegates the state parties send to the nominating conventions. National Democratic Party rules could even punish candidates who campaign in states that move their primaries earlier than Feb. 5 by essentially not recognizing the state's delegates.

"The state can move its primary date but there are automatic sanctions," said Luis Miranda, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee. "The rules have been adopted and we will enforce the rules"

Also they joked on the floor about adding an amendment to not go before February 5. They laughed and said they were offering the amendment so they could later show the DNC what they did.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

"The DNC members had handouts that included quotes by House Minority leader Dan Gelber brushing off Howard Dean, and the following transcript of Steve Geller making the motion to move the primary to Feb. 5:

Geller: "...So the Democratic leader and the Democratic leader pro tem are jointly making this motion, which we will duly show them later, that we tried not to have the election on, um, before (Feb. 5).
President: "And so Sen. Geller are you urging a negative vote or would you like us to pass this vote?"
Geller: "Oh no sir. We really, really want this. Don't we senator? (sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber).?

[iconoclastic cat]

6. Fine, let them become a straw poll. nt

[DURHAM D]

10. F**k Florida.

I think the early primary would help Clinton and I am a Clinton supporter. The earlier and earlier primary votes plays in favor of the candidate with the most money (and name recognition) early.

However, we either build a strong Dem party at the national level and a strong Dem party across the country or we don't. If we don't the Repubs will keep winning and the Dems will continue to reinvent the wheel every two and four years when we have national elections. Dean is on the right track and James Carville is a pig.

The DNC has a rules committee that apparently can't be rolled in the interest of just a few. Personally I would like to serve on the credentials committee for the next national convention.

John Edwards has been campaigning in Iowa for 7 years now. Campaigns make decisions based on the primary calendar. Throw it out the window and the presidential candidates two through eight can't make a plan.

Florida can caucus or have a state convention and get into the convention hall with their delegation. They need to get busy planning instead of acting like spoiled children.

[penguin7]

11. I officially support the DNC decision to strip Florida of its delegates

For whatever that is worth.

Money and the corporate media have too much power in the primaries as it is.

[cali]

15. I can absolutely guarantee you that Dean won't back down n/t

[madfloridian]

18. Let the undermining of the party by Florida Dems be brought out.

Let the utter contempt toward the DNC be shown.

The DNC has all they need, a lawsuit would bring it to the forefront.

Florida has not told the truth.

I say let's get it all out in the open.

Both parties voted for the early primary here to be "relevant"

Let the power play commence.

[William769]

21. Trust me it has begun.

[madfloridian]

24. So I was right. Totally right. You admit it.

The power play against Dean has begun. Thanks for verifying.

[William769]

26. What are you smoking?

The lawsuit has begun. There you go taking little bits and pieces again. :eyes:

[madfloridian]

27. Could you show me the filing? All I have heard is bluster.

And I want them to put their lawsuit where their bluster is.

Do you have a link? In all my mail I missed it.

Did the Florida party file it or the Congressional Florida Democrats led by Nelson?

[William769]

28. was filed by me this morning.

I'm not leading anyone. But I am sure there will be more to follow.

[DURHAM D]

29. As a concerned voter or for an organization? eom

[William769]

30. As a concerned voter.

I am not associated with any organization concerning this lawsuit.

[DURHAM D]

31. Do you mind sharing the important points/legal foundation

of your filing?

[tkmorris]

39. Your state party leaders broke a rule

and instead of suing them you are suing the people charged with enforcing that rule? That's just nuts. If anyone disenfranchised you (and incidentally, me) it wasn't the DNC.

I would love to know your legal arguments for your lawsuit. They must be very creative.

One last thing. It is widely understood that if Florida does hold a primary prior to Iowa and New Hampshire et al, Hillary Clinton benefits as the early poll leader there. In fact, it would appear the only way she can lose is if Florida's primary is held after Iowa and New Hampshire, and the winning candidates there get the expected bump. You are a die-hard Hillary supporter.

Are you sure that isn't coloring your thinking here?

[madfloridian]

33. Link to the lawsuit, please, if it has begun. No secretiveness.

We the people of Florida have a right to know who is suing in our name.

So let's stop with the secretiveness.

[DURHAM D]

34. I guess Will is having trouble getting his scanner to work.

I really am interested in his basis for filing.

[mitchtv]

35. Sad, really, but We all know better than to depend on FLA.

the time has come for ROTATING, REGIONAL,PRIMARIES. Nothing less will suffice Fuck FL, WY, NH ,IA, SC et al they are no better, nor any more important than anyone else, BTW, Howard Dean speaks for me

[sabbat hunter]

36. Florida should STFU

and stop being asses about this. All it is going to do is that the voting season will become earlier and earlier, possibly into late this year.


Both parties need to set new rules at the national conventions, using either the Delaware plan or the California plan for presidential primary voting.

End this nonsense about leapfrogging each other to see who can vote first in the nation.

[madfloridian]

37. Waiting to get verification about suit by a top Floridian

.Editing again until I find more.

[DURHAM D]

41. Has Senator Graham supposedly filed something? eom

[madfloridian]

42. Well...here is what we heard..

Hubby was in the other room, had one station on for news. I was in the kitchen and heard from the other room another station . He came in said did you hear that? We were both shocked. We heard that he would file a suit against the DNC...but I can NOT find a thing online. I did find a suit he has filed against the state about the committee that handles the colleges here.

SO...this is one of those what the heck did we hear things. I figure they will file a suit to bring the DNC...but I never expected that.

No, I can not verify. It is odd we both thought so. We were both upset and angry.

I have felt so enthusiastic about the party until lately. If Florida wins this situation by lying...it will not be a win at all. Just a terrible tragedy.

I feel a deeper anger today, and I have no fight left.

[DURHAM D]

43. Thanks for your response.

You may have read my posts up thread. I seem to be in agreement with you. I don't want the Florida Dems to bring their issues about property taxes into the debate about delegate seating at the national convention.

I can not even imagine what legal grounds the Florida Dems might find to bring this forward or who would have standing to bring it to the courts -what court? The DNC Rules Committee? Have the damn caucus - stop wasting time on the organization of same would be my advice.

[madfloridian]

44. We agree.

And there needs to be no more propaganda. That for too long has been the way here.

[truebrit71]

38. F*ck Florida...

...the whole state seems to be bat-shit crazy and just needs to settle the fuck down...

Howard Dean told them to go pound sand. I stand with the Doctor on this one.

[LittleClarkie]

46. How appropriate that it be dick shaped then

Behold, the nation's winkie.

[rndmprsn]

40. FLA broke the rules...must pay the penalty

simple as that, explain to me why i am wrong

[LittleClarkie]

45. I think I'll try that the next time a cop stops me

"I'm going to have to ticket you for speeding"

"No"

Always thought speed limits were dumb anyway.

[madfloridian]

48. I would laugh but it hurts too much.

But thanks for the post.

[xxqqqzme]

52. Instead of whining and complaining about Howard Dean & the

DNC, you could do us all a huge favor and start working to get your state party energized so the rethugs in the state legislature cannot so easily manipulate and marginalize Democrats. Stpo swallowing the bait. The rethugs are hauling you in and you don't even know it.

[Ediacara]

53. The Florida (and Michigan) Party can continue this all it wants

And the DNC can have a 48 state convention. The Supreme Court has ruled pretty clearly that a political party can nominate a candidate any way it damn well chooses and all the state party hubris regarding the 14th amendment really amounts to nothing.

I wonder, will this nonsense finally end up with a rotating primary in 2012 like people have been talking about since at least 2000?