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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:10 PM
Original message
World War III
By David Swanson

The administration of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney is set on a course that leads directly to a third world war. And a third world war leads almost inevitably to most of us dying horrible deaths. And we're not talking about it.

The White House has made clear it is seriously considering attacking Iran with massive bombing aimed at destroying the nation's military and changing its government. Iran will certainly retaliate. If attacked, and possibly even if not attacked, Israel will join in the fighting. The resistance in Iraq will intensify dramatically. Controlling the oil of Iran and Iraq will be out of the question short of thorough genocide. Anti-American furor will sweep the Muslim world. The nuclear nation of Pakistan will be a prime target for an Islamic revolution.

If we don't have a world war on our hands immediately, one will be very hard to avoid. We will have taught every nation, again, that the only path to safety is acquisition of nuclear weapons. We will have isolated the United States from most of the world, including many of our traditional allies. Terrorist attacks against American targets will come, and the United States will retaliate, again, not with law enforcement but with additional aggressive warfare.

If the United States attacks Iran, we will be openly at war with the world in a nuclear age. If the thought isn't terrifying, something's wrong with our ability to fear. Our politics is almost always driven in the wrong direction by fear of the wrong things. I'd love for once to see fear knock some sense into us.

The founders of the United States feared these moments for us. To protect us, they gave Congress the sole power to declare war. The current Congress, building on the misdeeds of others in recent decades, has given up its power. In fact, we've reached the point where Congress cannot easily take it back. Were Congress to declare with a veto-proof majority that Bush must not bomb Iran, is anyone sure Bush would listen?

Back at the start of this Congress, eight months ago, some of the new committee chairs from the progressive caucus spoke on a panel organized by the Institute for Policy Studies. Congressman John Conyers, the new chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said on this occasion that he would take up the impeachment of Bush and Cheney if they attacked Iran. Congressman Dennis Kucinich at the time was saying the same thing. He has since introduced articles of impeachment against Cheney (H Res 333) that include the charge of threatening aggressive war against Iran (which happens to be a crime). Currently 20 Congress Members support H Res 333, but none of them with any sense of urgency. None of them are lobbying their colleagues to sign on or to introduce their own articles of impeachment. Nobody in Congress, and certainly not the leadership, is pushing hard for impeachment as the means to prevent an attack on Iran.

But impeachment is the only leverage the Congress has over an outlaw executive branch. Conyers recently said that he opposes impeachment because he carries the Constitution in one hand and a calculator in the other, and he uses the calculator to tell himself he doesn't "have the votes" to pass impeachment. Of course, by that argument, he should take his name off his bill for single-payer health care, his bill for slavery reparations, etc. But, more importantly, an impeachment effort can serve a purpose short of successfully impeaching anyone. A serious movement to impeach Gonzales helped show him the door. A serious movement to impeach Bush and Cheney is the only way Congress can deter an attack on Iran or end the prolonged attack on Iraq. If articles of impeachment had 100 cosponsors, Bush and Cheney would understand that attacking Iran would move that number to 218.

Has Bush even told the Congressional leadership of his plans to attack Iran? If he has not, will they have the decency to feel indignation? And will they do so BEFORE the bombing? If he has told them, then Congressional leaders have a duty to the citizens of this nation to immediately expose and oppose such plans. Congress exists to determine our nation's course of action, not to be informed of it. Any member of Congress who has been informed of new plans for illegal war and not spoken out should be tried as an accomplice in war crimes.

As the White House continues to leak news of its likely attack on Iran, our demand must be for impeachment now, not after the slaughter when we have all been made less safe than ever. And we must not get caught up in the nonsense questions in the media over exactly who lied about exactly how many nuclear facilities in Iran. If possessing some particular number of nuclear reactors, or for that matter nuclear bombs, justified other nations in launching aggressive war, then any nation would be justified in attacking the United States. Nothing, in fact, can justify a war of aggression, legally or morally, because such a war is certain to be worse than whatever might be found to try to justify it.

We cannot, of course, be certain at this point that Bush and Cheney will attack Iran. Whether they do or not, the task of Congress remains the same: impeach these dictators and end the occupation of Iraq. But if our nation continues on this path of unchecked executive power and military aggression, the path of Afghanistan and Guantanamo and Iraq, then expanded war is inevitable, and that means war that eventually hits the United States. The clearest I can possibly frame our situation is as a choice between one word and another. We are unlikely to get neither or both. We are likely to get one or the other. Impeach or die.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. It will be monumentally harder to impeach once the bombs are dropped.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I Really Don't See Why
It's plenty "hard enough" as it is.

And it's only the "beltway blinded" punditry that clings to the notion that the country will always-always rally to any new war. They'll spin mightily of course, but I don't see anyone who's already given up on this regime (2/3rds of the country) actually reversing themselves to cheer on more war mongering.

It's just as likely that they'll lose more of their isolationist base. And perhaps a considerably larger percentage of the "military community" that still clings to the hope (there is none) that their loved ones are considered something more than cannon fodder to these greedy draft-dodging, chickenhawk megalomaniacs.

----

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. naaaa, impeachment won't matter at that point...
riding him out on a rail will be the peoples choice.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Israel will not enter such a war
Why should they? They've got us to do their fighting for them.

However, the world has a nasty habit of uniting against rogue states headed by madmen who screw up everybody else's business by seeking Empire.

If these idiots start bombing another oil exporting nation, it is all over for us.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I have long wondered when we'll see a "D-Day" invasion...
...on our Eastern shores. I ask how long before a coaltion of the panicked will step in and stop Bushco. And then the awful thought comes that there aren't any good guys anymore. All nations are corporately controlled and help is *not* on the way!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yeah, but all nations are controlled by their businessmen
and screwing up the Middle East oil patch for everybody in the world is not good for business.

It doesn't matter who's wearing the white hats. History doesn't lie and no one has ever been able to hang onto an empire for very long without fighting continuous war to keep it.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. True. And I shudder to contemplate the end of American Empire! nt
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. Ironically, should we attack and Israel have the good sense to keep
out of it, it could be the saving of Israel. To much of the Arab world, Israel is not hated for being Jewish nearly so much as for being a proxy American colony. For all the undue influence of AIPAC on American politics, there is an equally undue influence by radical Americans on Israeli politics. A huge proportion of the illegal settlers are American emigrants. If Israel should put the brakes on the radicals and prove that they are not just an American colony it could change the entire conversation.

I've sometimes wondered if that was a motivation for the attack on the US spy ship in '67 - to show the Arab nations they were in conflict with that they were not fighting at the behest of the US. Realpolitik at its worst, yes, but it was only a few years later that the lasting peace between Egypt and Israel was brokered, and the US was seen as an impartial agent, and I think the Liberty incident had a lot to do with it.

So maybe they will keep out of it. We can hope.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R n/t
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. We were set on this war course by the 2002 "force authorization" resolution
I won't argue with those who point to other events, but giving Bush a free hand in 2002 to "deal with" Iraq rather than insisting on a declaration of war against a sovereign nation (as unquestionably provided for in the Constitution) has led us down this path. Time is running out. Bush's trip to Iraq today is both to assure that Petraeus doesnt' go soft on him and to send a signal to the Iranians. I honestly don't think that Bush is concerned anymore worrying about what Congress will do (let alone impeachment!). Mario Cuomo and Pat Buchanan (!) have both written about these subjects in the past couple of days. Impeach or die? Then the smell of death is in the air.

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R n/t
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. world war three?
will start in Asia most likely china-india over nature resources and econmics
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. Don't think so. If China and India were to tear into each other
there is no real reason for it to spread into more than a regional conflict. Even if it were to encompass millions of troops and nukes, nobody would have much to gain by interfering. Pakistan might make a grab for Kashmir, but that wouldn't really change anything. We would not fight to defend Pakistan if India retaliated against them any more than we would defend India against Pakistan. We might want to help India against China, democracies united against the reds sort of thing, but we aren't all that friendly with India, and I think we'd try to ratchet down the conflict rather than kick it up. In the meantime, conflict between India and China would offer huge opportunities for America to redress our trade imbalance - wars are expensive and both those countries own huge amounts of our debt. That opportunity would be squandered if we actually joined in.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. I just love how many people seem to feel that Russia and China will
just sit back and let us take over the ME. No, Swanson is right, our invasion of Iran will set off WW III, and our "leaders" will do nothing but rush to their bunkers in the belief that they will come out to rule over the ruins and build the corporate utopia they envision.
:kick: & R



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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I believe we have been warned.
Russia, China Hold Joint War Games

By IVAN SEKRETAREV
The Associated Press
Friday, August 17, 2007; 6:57 AM

snip>

The drills coincided with a massive Russian air force exercise in which dozens of Russian strategic bombers ranged far over the Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic oceans.

The summit concluded with a communique that sounded like a thinly veiled warning to the United States to stay away from the strategically placed, resource-rich region.

snip>

Ivan Safranchuk, an analyst at World Security Institute, said Friday's exercise underlined that "the SCO wants to show that Central Asia is its exclusive sphere of responsibility."

snip>

Relations between Russia and the United States have worsened steadily amid U.S. criticism of Russia's democracy, Moscow's strong objections to U.S. missile defense plans and differences over global crises.


more @ link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/17/AR2007081700559.html


I'm sure there will be many waiting to greet them when they rise from their coffins again. :grr:

:kick:nR.





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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Jeebus! How much more Corporate Utopia do they want?
Are we talking slave/worker race and ruling Elite?

Do the neocons really think that ANYTHING will rise from the ashes of a nuclear exchange?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. They have no concept of the word 'ruins.'
:cry:

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. I was only thinging the other day of Einstein's wry comment:
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."!!!!
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Hersheygirl Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yep, with * around
Edited on Mon Sep-03-07 03:42 PM by Hersheygirl
we'll back in the stone age before we know it. That of course is for those that survive.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Wise words. I attended an Einstien Exhibit @ our Museum of Science and was
surprised to see how much of the exhibit pertained to Einstein's peace efforts. He was definitely a great man with much insight as exhibited from the quote you gave.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Oh yes. Although it was to be his profession, par excellence,
physics was by no means the narrow field of interest to him that it might have been.

I was astonished to read an article of his which already identified the thrust of the most sociopathic and psychopathic worldlngs towards corporatism, and its effects even at that time. He was a SOCIALIST! But above all, though people point to his own family life, he was most insistent upon the sovereign need of man for ethical aims and actions, about the power of modern science effectively being in the the hands of murderopus psychopaths.
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. If the elections take place, I hope people wake up before the primaries?
If we get a chance, don't vote for a candidate that will continue these wars for money. We need serious change in Washington and it IS up to us, who will you vote for!
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R Depressingly well said!
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. Impeach or die is exactly what is has come to, wish more understood.
Good reality post David.

Have the "you are an alarmist" replies come in yet? :crazy:


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spag68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-03-07 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Impeachment
after the criminal bombs Iran is useless, as there will be no one left to impeach.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. Russia and China have their own oil interests in Iran
The whole world already sees bush as a crusader out to steal Iraqi oil. If bush starts a war with Iran, the world will see this as an attempt to steal Iran's oil as well. I don't suppose Russia OR China will sit back while bush attempts to steal "THEIR" oil!

Has anyone else noticed that Russia has been flying their armed bombers around again as they used to during the Cold War? (Yeah, I know, they are supposedly doing this in protest of bush's desire to placehis mythical "Star Wars" thing in Eastern Europe).

Not sure where i heard it but I seem to recall that bush ordered a military (anti missile?) unit to Washington DC. Folks I heard that from about a week ago speculated bush summoned soldiers to DC for the purpose of arresting protestors...maybe these guys were summoned there for a different unthinkable purpose!

On the other hand, perhaps my tinfoil hat has sprung a leak and I should get back to more important concerns like: How long constitutes TOO LONG for one to be peeking through cracks in a public bathroom stall. (Is it me or is there something very "American Idolish" about DUers fascination with the Craig/Vitter story?)
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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
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Greylyn58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. That is a frightening world view you paint
but one whose path we started down ever since Bush and his cabal began beating the war drums in 2002.

If Congress doesn't act soon to put Bush, Cheney and their whole unlawful mob out of office and in jail, where they belong, we are lost. Because the world that comes after they begin bombing Iran is a world too terrible to contemplate.





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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
27. Priorities, priorities...
"If the United States attacks Iran, we will be openly at war with the world in a nuclear age. If the thought isn't terrifying, something's wrong with our ability to fear."

Wha?? Your head's all full of stuffing...Al Gore eats sea bass and Hillary Clinton shows cleavage. THOSE are the things we need to worry about! :eyes:
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rabies1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
28. A "3-Day Blitz" is planned for Iran.
You are right also that Bush/Cheney should be Impeached before the strike so the whole world will know - We were NOT supportive of them. See The Times.UK online and Goleft.tv online for more info. on the 3-Day Blitz.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
31. K & R
I'll be sending the Dems on the Judiciary Committee plus Pelosi another round of letters. Stickers of tennis, soccer, and base BALLS are on sale this week. The women get stickers of OVA (Easter eggs).

Dear Judiciary Committee Member:

Here...use these BALLS and start IMPEACHMENT proceedings before the neocons start WW3.

Sincerely,

femrap

Everyone please join me in writing to 23 Dems. And phone calls don't hurt either.

Anyone interested in doing so, let me know and I'll provide their addresses, OK?

Thx.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
32. How many elected dems or dem candidates even give a shit?
Yay! Go Dems!
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coco77 Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. I have been emailing senator Levin every week now..
and he sends me back emails about how they are trying to get out of Iraq. I guess it is time to hype it up. I have also been amazed at how people seem to not understand what will happens once he drops a bomb. They are hyping it up more and more on Fox and have been for months.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. "they are trying to get out of Iraq"?
Sheesh. If they are trying to stay out of Iran with the same effort that they are trying to get out of Iraq, 'we are screwn'.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. Fundamentalist Christians would be excited and rapturous.
Armageddon would finally have arrived, and they would prepare to meet Jesus. They actually want this, and are impatient.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. How is it that we have a dozen major candidates from two different parties and
Not one of them mention the coming of the Apocalypse??

that is one of the scarier aspects of the Presidential campaigns.

The real elephant in the living room.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-04-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
37. Impeachment is the only way to even slow these bastards down.
Note to Democrats: Just running out the clock is not a strategy.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
38. disappointed
Sheesh. I predict the end of the world and get not one post disagreeing. Usually at least five people call me names or insult my family. But Nooooooooooooo. Not if I'm predicting apocalypse. This is depressing.
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