I was just watching C-Span......and saw Hillary, and figured out what's "wrong" with Barack Obama!

[plusfiftyfive]

It took me no time at all.

I watched Barack's live speech live in Manchester NH this morning!

I watched a re-play of Hillary's speech in Concord NH Sunday.

I finally figured out what's really wrong with Barack Obama as a Presidential Candidate:


And I will share the problem with all of you DU'ers here!


Are you ready?


The "problem" with Barack Obama as a Presidential candidate is that he's NOT MARRIED TO BILL CLINTON!!!

Really, that's all there is between the two. Now, don't get me wrong, Ba-rack's wife is a fine person, but she's just not a former President!!! She's an average professional..!!! Bill is the former popular President of the USA! How can an average professional woman compete with Bill ? She's not anywhere close to Bill in public speaking skills,sorry to say!

So what can we do about it? Can we get Bill and Barack to abandon their spouses and marry each other? I bet THAT would get Barack ahead of Hillary!

What do you think?

[illinoisprogressive]

1. so right. where would hillary be if her last name wasn't clinton...

just another subavrage pol.

[surfermaw]

101. You know it might be the other way around where would Bill be without Hillary

She can speak, I watched the both of them in Iowa last night a rerun, she spokd better than the big dog.

[dkf]

2. agree

If she divorced Bill where would she be? Or if, God forbid, something happened to him, would we think her "experience" would see her through everything?

[plusfiftyfive]

3. Not that there's anything WRONG with Bill marrying Barack!

It's just NOT in the cards for 2008!

[Tellurian]

7. BillyO'Bama...hahahahahaha! Sounds like a medical condition...

[harun]

4. I don't think anyone is close to Bill in public speaking skills (n/t)

[plusfiftyfive]

11. I agree

He's so skilled, he is a gift to us all!

[journalist3072]

5. Are you really that devoid of reality? Are you really that clueless?

To say the very least, it is insulting that even insinuate that Hillary Clinton would be nowhere without Bill Clinton.

The facts just don't square with that.

- Did she get her job at the Children's Defense Fund because of her relationship with Bill Clinton? No!

- Was she asked to serve on the impeachment committee during the impeachment of Richard Nixon, because of her relationship with Bill Clinton? No!

The point being that Hillary Clinton is obviously a highly intelligent, well accomplished, and scary bright woman in her own right.

It's pretty pathetic that the anti-Hillary contigent here on DU, has been reduced to advancing this ridiculous theory that she's only whre she is today, because of Bill Clinton. It's devoid of any reality or facts whatsoever.

[jefferson_dem]

9. Come on. Either the "Big Dawg" is an asset or he isn't. Either her "experience" as First Lady

is an asset or it isn't. Which is it? Pick a position and try to stick with it...

[plusfiftyfive]

10. DUH.........I am your fellow Democrat... hardly "clueless"....

You said...............

"It's pretty pathetic that the anti-Hillary contigent here on DU, has been reduced to advancing this ridiculous theory that she's only whre she is today, because of Bill Clinton. It's devoid of any reality or facts whatsoever."


How many hundreds of thousands of women and men have served their nation well in the last 30 years?

How many hundreds of women have brilliance and intelligence and strikingly attractive personalities like Hillary?

Your attitude of extreme bias about your FELLOW DEMOCRATS AND LIBERALS who don't share your love of Hillary is what may keep her out of the White House.

Until the Hillary supporters realize that the rest of the world doesn't agree with them, doesn't walk in their shoes, doesn't admire one woman over someone else, until the Hillary supporters get rid of their arrogance and bitterness at fellow Americans, as exemplified in the remark above which YOU made, until you get a bit of humility and openness in your brain, you're bound to lose the election once again for the Democrats! I've already told people here I will vote for Hillary over any other candidate if I have no real choice....but millions of Americans don't agree with me.....and YOU need THEM, (not me), to insure we don't have a Republican for another four years!

So tone down your rhetoric against fellow Dems who don't agree with you! It's unbecoming of Hillary, to say the least!

[plusfiftyfive]

14. I was trying to be funny!

Geesh, lighten up, you Hillary supporters!

You are so rabid and so angry....no way to win that way, folks!

[Bongo Prophet]

128. Yes, +55 is just a jokestirrer. Say bye bye to the funny person!

That didn't take long.
Bye bye, funny person!

[spag68]

19. I second your thoughts

any one that has been paying attention for the last 30 or so years has seen this smart woman mature into a really smart pol. As a New Yorker, I've seen her in action and she is impressive in person. That is not to say she is my first choice, that would be Al Gore ,but she definitely is up to the task,and like any pol, will respond to pressure from her party. I think we will get our pres, but the important thing is to get 5 or 6 more in the senate, so we can get lieberman thrown out on his bony ass.

[plusfiftyfive]

20. Lieberman is NOT due to run until 2012!

What are you talking about?

Hillary's election has nothing to do with Lieberman!

[sandnsea]

25. Nobody knows those things

So what are her personal qualifications again??

[baldguy]

6. Have you ever seen Michelle Obama?

[plusfiftyfive]

12. I have seen her, she's great !!!

But she's NOT the former President of the USA, with Bill's skill at public speaking. Sorry!

[Tellurian]

15. It's not only his speaking skill...

It's his genius and his political skill. He is after all Hillary's campaign mgr. He's hired the best of the best, loyal, committed, visionary political consultants there are. He is running her campaign from the inside out. Everyone working for the Clintons are on the same page, of the same mind, and totally committed to Hillary to accept nothing less than a Win..as it should be. Hillary's campaign organization is a well oiled machine with everyone working towards a single goal, getting Hillary into the White House in 08'.

[plusfiftyfive]

16. True believers scare me!

If we have a lack of diversity in that campaign, all LOCK-STEP.....sounds more like Hitler running for office than a truly open and deserving candidate. When in the history of the USA did a former President run the campaign of a candidate? Doesn't that scare you a little? Oh, I'm sure you'd love to say "no, not at all, when it's Bill Clinton!"

Well, I, for one, think it's a sad day when we have to rely upon a former President to run the campaign of any candidate! Sorry, but there's 300,000,000 Americans out there, and at least 1000 people who would make a good President, and we are stuck with a front-runner who is the spouse of a former President. Her 8 years as a spouse gave her lots of opportunities, to be sure, and she's a brilliant woman with good looks and great speaking abilities. But is that the only single person who can do the job well? I don't think so!

[Tellurian]

17. I can't help it if you scare easily..

I guess you have little faith in you're own judgment. I'm not afflicted that way. That makes it hard for me to relate to your situation. You think it's a sad day for a former president to run the campaign of a presidential hopeful...Thats the glass half full/empty rationale. Making the point of that statement moot. It's meaningless because theres no difference. So far you haven't pointed to anything that could be considered derogatory about Sen Clinton except for your personal preference. Or given any concrete reason why she shouldn't be the next president. Are you against a woman being president? If so, why?

[plusfiftyfive]

18. What are you talking about???

You state:

"You think it's a sad day for a former president to run the campaign of a presidential hopeful...Thats the glass half full/empty rationale." What on Earth does THAT mean?

No, I'm just talking about history, where NO FORMER PRESIDENT EVER DID THIS, AND FOR GOOD REASON!!!



If you bother to read the words on the computer screen for the last 3 nights, you would KNOW that I would vote for Hillary if she is my ONLY liberal choice! Why do you make such absurd and illogical arguments, accusing me of not wanting to vote for a woman, (because I support a black man more)?

Your style of arguing really lacks substance, and your accusations are the type of thing that will get Hillary into trouble with people like you supporting her. She needs logical thinkers, not rash inquisition members like you!

If you can come up with a solid reason why Hillary R Clinton is better prepared and better positioned to be representative of my views, and YOUR views, I would love to see it. Instead I get your irrational accusatory questions. And then your rather frightening images of a gestapo-like campaign she and Bill are waging! Hello? Do you really believe what you write?

Thanks but no thanks! I'll continue to work for the man who actually had to WORK for a living for the last 25 years, and not go to Princess Dianna's funeral as a way of getting "experience" to be President.

[Tellurian]

22. As you said, your arguments lack substance..

You state:

==="You think it's a sad day for a former president to run the campaign of a presidential hopeful...Thats the glass half full/empty rationale." What on Earth does THAT mean?===

Depending on who is looking at the glass of water, one is either a pessimist or an optimist. They either see the glass of water as half empty or half full. In your case, your pessimism is obvious. But the fact remains...there is a half of a glass of water and you have no point.

===No, I'm just talking about history, where NO FORMER PRESIDENT EVER DID THIS, AND FOR GOOD REASON!!!===

Hillary is making history no matter how you deny what IS..If elected, she will be the first female president. Also, if she is elected; it will be another first in US History, where both a husband and wife have been elected to the Oval Office.

So, what's the good reason for a former president's spouse not to run for office? Or a former president not supporting his wife as a candidate during her campaign? I fail to see the relevance of your statement!

Hillary has lifelong experience in helping people and has been a huge advocate for children's issues. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for your candidate. The gist of my last post informed you that your excuses for knocking Hillary are based in nuance not in fact. Reread the post if you have to. Hillary is better positioned to be the next president because she has a wealth of experience behind her and has a plan in place to go to work right away, as soon as she's elected.

Here are 10 important reasons to elect Hillary-

10. To build a more tolerant, united America, working to achieve big goals again, with a president who’s ready for change and ready to lead from day one.

9. To restore America’s standing in the world and repair our alliances.

8. To combat terrorism, strengthen our military, and care for our veterans.

7. To restore competence and end cronyism in government, with a president who cares about and works for Americans who have been invisible to this administration.

6. To return to fiscal responsibility, move back toward a balanced budget, and safeguard Social Security and Medicare for future generations.

5. To promote 21st century scientific innovation, including stem cell research.

4. To provide world-class education, from universal pre-kindergarten to affordable college for all.

3. To create good jobs for middle-class Americans with the right investments in modern infrastructure and in new clean, energy-efficient technologies that reduce our dependence on foreign oil and combat global warming.

2. To achieve universal, affordable healthcare.

1. To end the war in Iraq.

GO HILLARY!

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

27. Obama is inept and not ready for prime time..

neither are you; as it turns out..

[jenmito]

29. Obama IS ready for prime time...

and so is plusfiftyfive. Your 10 important reasons to elect Hillary all apply to Obama, too. Obama has been working for the rights of people for over 20 years. He did it all without Bill Clinton as his ticket to "fame."

[Tellurian]

30. That would be nice if he had a record to stand on..

what with him facing the Rezko scandal that will soon be upon him in February, we hardly need a democratic candidate embroiled in a sordid scandal to risk lose another election once again. Thanks, but No Thank You!

[jenmito]

31. You don't think Obama has a record to stand on?

Read this: http://www.obamapedia.org/page/Does+Barack+Obama+have+enough+experience+to+be+president%3F?t=anon

Oh yeah, like Hillary will have no scandals to face. I'm sure the Repubs. have many things up their sleeves that they're just dying to expose. The Rezko scandal is all you got? Big deal!

[plusfiftyfive]

33. Thanks for the link! Jen

"Does Barack Obama have enough experience to be president?
Newt Gingrich, commenting on Obama's experience: "Well, Abraham Lincoln served two years in the U.S.House, and seemed to do all right." (Meet The Press 12/17)

http://www.obamapedia.org/page/Does+Barack+Obama+have+enough+experience+to+be+president%3F?t=anon

[jenmito]

34. No problemo!

It says a lot about who he is and what MADE him who he is. And I must say I agree with Gingrich! :D

And I just recommended your thread since I thought the same thing and agree with you 100%! :hi:

[Tellurian]

39. Too bad Obama isn't as honest as Ole Abe...huh?

[jenmito]

47. He IS honest. Hillary, on the other hand, won't even tell us what she's thinking.

She SAID a president shouldn't always say what they think. Same ol' same ol'.

[Tellurian]

53. So, Hillary is already acting "Presidential"...

:loveya:

[jenmito]

55. Yup, she's acting just like Bush.

:eyes:

[Tellurian]

59. Bush isn't MY president..

But looking forward to Hillary ascending the Presidency...

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

65. O-bomba seasoned.?????.... hahahaha!

Obama was NEVER a LAW Professor..haha! How can anyone succeed with you propagating bad information..

He was a guest Lecturer, thats it! You certainly are not an asset to Obama's campaign...he's in enough trouble without your screw ups!

[plusfiftyfive]

67. A "guest" lecturer ?? Hardly!

NO, he taught courses. Hillary is a guest lecturer, lecturing us on how wonderful a person she is!

You took lessons from her school, I see.

[plusfiftyfive]

68. Heres what a "lecturer" is in law school, for those who never went to one.

Of course, if you don't know how graduate schools work in law and medicine, since you obviously never attended one... let me fill you in. A "lecturer" in a law school in the USA is a "practicing lawyer" who teaches courses part time.

"He received his B.A. degree in 1983, then worked for one year at Business International Corporation<22> before moving to Chicago to take a job as a community organizer.<23> He entered Harvard Law School in 1988.<24> In 1990, The New York Times reported his election as the Harvard Law Review's "first black president in its 104-year history."<25> He completed his J.D. degree magna cum laude in 1991.<26> On returning to Chicago, Obama directed a voter registration drive.<26> As an associate attorney with Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 1996, he represented community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases.<27> He was a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004.<28>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Hardly a "guest lecturer" if he did it for 11 years!

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

107. As you should know..a practicing lawyer is not synonymous with a "Law Professor"

==="A "lecturer" in a law school in the USA is a "practicing lawyer" who teaches courses part time."===

And as I said before, my educational credentials would dwarf yours..

Here are the definitions of both titles for your edification if you are brave enough not to have this post deleted (again) because it proves you wrong once again..

Lecturer

–noun

1. a person who lectures.

2. an academic rank given in colleges and universities to a teacher ranking below assistant professor.

Professor

–noun

1. a teacher of the highest academic rank in a college or university, who has been awarded the title Professor in a particular branch of learning; a full professor: a professor of Spanish literature.

2. any teacher who has the rank of professor, associate professor, or assistant professor.

Obama is and never was a Law Professor! He was never more than a Guest Lecturer, as I've maintained throughout... (definitions above)

[jenmito]

71. She's acting "presidential," and Bush is the president right now

and she's acting like him with some of her comments re: not saying what you think, not meeting with our enemies unconditionally, saying another terror attack will help the Repubs., etc.

[Tellurian]

78. When has Bush acted Presidential?

He did say he's a dictator, right?

[jenmito]

89. He's the president until Obama takes office...

or until we impeach him. No, he said he'd LIKE to be the dictator.

[Tellurian]

92. Obama who? The candidate that associates with Felons? That Obama?

[jenmito]

93. Good try.

No, the Obama who was against invading Iraq from the start.

[Tellurian]

97. No, it's the Truth...whether you want to believe it or not...

[plusfiftyfive]

60. Good one, Jen!

Hillary and Bush, Hillary didn't have the time to investigate Bush's claims that Saddam had WMD's...neither did Bush....they both wanted control of a large oil-producing country, and didn't care what lies they had to tell to get it!

[jenmito]

73. Thanks, +55!

Yup. She didn't even read the intelligence. Real leadership quality she has there-if you're looking for more of the same...

[Tellurian]

79. You guys know the rule about Tag Teams?

inappropriate and unsportsmanlike!

[plusfiftyfive]

83. You know the rule against insulting fellow posters?

I guess you missed that one.

Two people who agree with each other and validate each other's posts against Hillary Rodham Clinton; now, there's a common theme among Americans! Call it "tag-teaming" if you like, but it's reality in America when it comes to Hillary's America! Sorry you don't see that from your Ivory Tower.

[Tellurian]

94. Yes, thats called a Tag Team..

Some will exploit that tactic as 2 against one. Apparently, you need the support of another poster or many posters to make your case.

I see weakness...in Obama supporters and it's not a pretty picture. Does nothing to improve your standing in making a case for an Obama presidency. In fact your presence and personal attacks look like thuggery...as has been done in the past to many Hillary supporters.

[jenmito]

103. So the rules are such that I'M not allowed to respond to one of your posts that I disagree with

since you're already having a discussion with someone else? :eyes: Do you know how many times I've been posting with someone who disagreed with me and someone else who disagreed with me jumped in? You must be joking!

[jenmito]

90. Does a tag team mean that two posters agree?

'Cause that's what's going on here.

[Tellurian]

95. What happened to Triangulation?

can't figure out what it means?

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

109. Another personal attack..when will you ever learn, it's not allowed here?

bu-bye!

[jenmito]

102. WTH are you talking about?

Don't you know what it is? Everyone knows she triangulates! :eyes:

[Tellurian]

110. How do YOU know..

You can't tell me what it means...

[Tellurian]

37. The difference is Hillary can stand up to anything the repubs throw at her..

Obama on the other hand- one swipe of a republican smear and Obama will curl up in a fetal position, blame his staff and whine... Then probably call on Michelle, blame the Clintons, send her on a mission to smear Hillary. Thats the way they play in Chicago, Right?

[jenmito]

45. Wrong. The difference is that the GOP WANTS Hillary to be our nominee

so the RNC can unload their aresenal attacks on her. They don't HAVE things on Obama that they could possibly have on Hillary. Obama has proven that he WILL strike back when attacked. He also will not energize the RW base like Hillary will, but he WILL inspire some Repubs. to VOTE for him in the general election since people are hungry for change.

[Tellurian]

50. Here's what they have on Obama..

Here’s what Obama told CBS News:

“The kind of experience I have outside of Washington as a community organizer, working with families who are struggling, as a constitutional law professor, as a state legislator dealing with these very issues … people find that experience at least as relevant,” he said.

Obama claims that his work as a “community organizer”, “working with families who are stuggling” and as a “state legislator” are credentials the American electorate should be impressed with and elevate him to the highest office in the land. How impressive are those credentials? What exactly did Obama do in Illinois? How did his experience as a “community organizer” inform his work as a state legislator?

We wrote in Obama - Turning Pages, Part II, the following:

Obama at the time was a State Senator representing the mostly African-Americans who lived in the Rezko owned tenements. These residents of the Rezko owned tenements presumably contacted elected officials when they found themselves living in substandard housing and freezing in the winter. Where was Obama with consitutent services? Obama should have known and it strains credulity to think he did not know. Obama had helped Rezko obtain government subsidies for these tenements and we presume some type of due diligence was performed by Obama in which he would uncover the nature of the Rezko housing.

In that same article we quoted from the Chicago Sun-Times the following:

”Obama, who has worked as a lawyer and a legislator to improve living conditions for the poor, took campaign donations from Rezko even as Rezko’s low-income housing empire was collapsing, leaving many African-American families in buildings riddled with problems — including squalid living conditions, vacant apartments, lack of heat, squatters and drug dealers. The building in Englewood was one of 30 Rezmar rehabbed in a series of troubled deals largely financed by taxpayers. Every project ran into financial difficulty. More than half went into foreclosure, a Chicago Sun-Times investigation has found. “Their buildings were falling apart,” said a former city official. “They just didn’t pay attention to the condition of these buildings.” Eleven of Rezko’s buildings were in Obama’s state Senate district.“

Here is a bit more from that Chicago Sun-Times article:

“For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997, tenants shivered without heat in a government-subsidized apartment building on Chicago’s South Side.”

“It was just four years after the landlords — Antoin “Tony” Rezko and his partner Daniel Mahru — had rehabbed the 31-unit building in Englewood with a loan from Chicago taxpayers.”

“Rezko and Mahru couldn’t find money to get the heat back on.”

“Rezmar kept getting city and state funding, even as earlier projects fell into disrepair and financial troubles.
But their company, Rezmar Corp., did come up with $1,000 to give to the political campaign fund of Barack Obama, the newly elected state senator whose district included the unheated building.”

...*What use was Obama’s “community organizer” experience to those shivering tenants?

...*What use was Obama the state senator to those shivering tenants?

...*What relationships did Obama build during his “community organizer” days that proved useless when he became state senator, and failed to keep him in touch with the community?

...*What was Obama doing in his plush state senator office that kept him too busy to know that these “struggling families” were without heat “For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997″?

...*If Obama with all his “community organizer” experience did not know what was happening in his small district office in Chicago, how in blazes does anyone think he will respond to the needs of an American electorate that numbers in the hundreds of millions?

...*What was Obama doing in his state senate office while his constituents suffered due to now indicted slumlord Antoin “Tony” Rezko, Obama’s friend of 17 years? Well, Obama was busy writing letters to get even more government money for his friends, including Rezko.

...*Who did Obama take care of and who was he busy working for - his constituents or his now indicted friend Rezko who helped Obama buy a magnificent heated house?

The Senator From Rezko,Part II quoting a Chicago Tribune editorial:

On June 13, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that as a state senator, Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting Rezko’s successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens. The Sun-Times said the deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama’s former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama’s state Senate district. Obama’s campaign responded that Obama’s letters weren’t intended as a favor for Rezko or Davis, but rather in the interest of the people in the community who have benefited from the project. An attorney for Rezko, who has pleaded not guilty to federal charges of influence peddling and bank fraud, told the newspaper that Rezko never sought a letter from Obama in connection with the project.

From Obama’s Curse:

“I’ve said to Rev. Sharpton and I’ll say it today, if there is somebody - I don’t care whether they are white or black or they are male or female - if there is somebody who has been more on the forefront on behalf of the issues you care about and has more concrete accomplishments on behalf of the things you’re concerned about, I’m happy to see you endorse them. But I am absolutely confident you will not find that.”

When it came time to defend the defenseless or protect and enrich the powerful. Obama made a decision. He protected his powerful friends and provided them with even more government money. Same old Chicago politics. The poor shivered in cold tenements. Obama bought a new house. Now he wants a bigger White House to entertain his Chicago friends.

The shivering poor will remember the missing state senator.

Comprehensive Link

[jenmito]

57. No. That's what HILLARY has on Obama since it's from HER site...not the GOP

But maybe they're not that different afterall.

[Tellurian]

70. :yawn:

zzzzzzzzzzz!

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

69. All you have to do is refute the allegations of Obama's ties to Rezko..

and Obama leaving his constituency out in the COLD literally, while accepting donations from the felon he helped get state funding to build low income housing..

Why is it so hard for you to have a serious discussion? Is that all you know how to do is attack?

Let's get down to facts vs facts... I presented mine...I can wait for your presentation of a full scale rebuttal.

I promise I'll read it if you do your due diligence and provide the proof refuting everything written about Obama "in the pink"!

[MagsDem]

48. I read it, and sorry I really don't

We've seen what harm lack of experience can bring to such an important job. Obama is too much in a hurry. He needs more seasoning. You can call it ambitious for him to run for president before even completing one term as a US senator or other state-wide elected office. But to me it comes off as a kind of arrogance, and an objection on his part to paying his dues and getting the experience he needs first.

[jenmito]

58. Are you saying he has the

AUDACITY OF HOPE?

[plusfiftyfive]

66. Good one, Jen

How much are you willing to bet that that poster doesn't even know that that's the title of one of Obama's books? How much are you willing to bet that poster would never read it?

Hillary supporters, as far as I am concerned, are the most closed-minded individuals in the Democratic Party, next to those that still support Bush's war in Iraq, (and there are a few of those still, too!)

[jenmito]

76. Thanks again, +55!

I agree. Wow-he DARES to be ambitious and to want to change the current partisan political environment! That's a real negative-how DARE he!

[Tellurian]

81. More like the "Audacity of Nope"..

If only you could provide a list of Obama's accomplishments so I can give it a look..

A cut and paste, even!

[plusfiftyfive]

64. Can you tell me how many elected offices and for how many years Hillary

has been in office before she announced for President?

You people are so fixated on your ideas, you disregard the best talent, in favor of your biases.

You never listen with an open mind, you have YOUR opinions, and YOUR OPINIONS are worth more than all the years Obama taught constitutional law, served the people of Chicago, served in the state legislature, and impressed everyone who came in contact. Wish you could say the same for Hillary, but no, she offended people from Wellesley College, (getting "experience as a Goldwater Republican") to Yale, to Arkansas to the White House!

She's a great NY Senator, leave her there!

[Tellurian]

80. So, what time is the Pity Party for Obama?

[plusfiftyfive]

35. The facts about the Rezko "scandal" the press made up.

"This story certainly raises lots of interesting questions about Obama's relationship with Rezko. Why did Obama get the house at below-market value when Rita Rezko paid the asking price? Why were both deals closed on the same day? And--most scandalously--did Obama and Rezko have a pay-for-play deal of the sort that can get you an indictment and lose you a career? Disappointingly, these questions have answers that are boring, uncontroversial, and well-known: The house had been on the market for months, the seller required that the sales be closed on the same day, and there still isn't any evidence that Obama has ridden to Rezko's rescue--he actually opposed gambling interests that would have made Rezko a pretty penny, and, since the indictment, he has donated the developer's campaign contributions to charity."
.....
"In March of 1992, The New York Times published an article that was critical of the Clintons' Whitewater real-estate dealings--the first time most people had heard of the issue. It would not be the last. Eight years and 80 million public dollars later, we had a pornographic novel masquerading as the Starr Report, "insufficient" evidence to prove any presidential wrongdoing,"
......
" Give Obama all the scrutiny in the world--just not a different standard of guilt."

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w061218&s=clarke122006

[Tellurian]

42. Here's an "Inconvenient Truth" for you to chew on!

Here’s what Obama told CBS News:

“The kind of experience I have outside of Washington as a community organizer, working with families who are struggling, as a constitutional law professor, as a state legislator dealing with these very issues … people find that experience at least as relevant,” he said.

Obama claims that his work as a “community organizer”, “working with families who are stuggling” and as a “state legislator” are credentials the American electorate should be impressed with and elevate him to the highest office in the land. How impressive are those credentials? What exactly did Obama do in Illinois? How did his experience as a “community organizer” inform his work as a state legislator?

We wrote in Obama - Turning Pages, Part II, the following:

Obama at the time was a State Senator representing the mostly African-Americans who lived in the Rezko owned tenements. These residents of the Rezko owned tenements presumably contacted elected officials when they found themselves living in substandard housing and freezing in the winter. Where was Obama with consitutent services? Obama should have known and it strains credulity to think he did not know. Obama had helped Rezko obtain government subsidies for these tenements and we presume some type of due diligence was performed by Obama in which he would uncover the nature of the Rezko housing.

In that same article we quoted from the Chicago Sun-Times the following:

”Obama, who has worked as a lawyer and a legislator to improve living conditions for the poor, took campaign donations from Rezko even as Rezko’s low-income housing empire was collapsing, leaving many African-American families in buildings riddled with problems — including squalid living conditions, vacant apartments, lack of heat, squatters and drug dealers. The building in Englewood was one of 30 Rezmar rehabbed in a series of troubled deals largely financed by taxpayers. Every project ran into financial difficulty. More than half went into foreclosure, a Chicago Sun-Times investigation has found. “Their buildings were falling apart,” said a former city official. “They just didn’t pay attention to the condition of these buildings.” Eleven of Rezko’s buildings were in Obama’s state Senate district.“

Here is a bit more from that Chicago Sun-Times article:

“For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997, tenants shivered without heat in a government-subsidized apartment building on Chicago’s South Side.”

“It was just four years after the landlords — Antoin “Tony” Rezko and his partner Daniel Mahru — had rehabbed the 31-unit building in Englewood with a loan from Chicago taxpayers.”

“Rezko and Mahru couldn’t find money to get the heat back on.”

“Rezmar kept getting city and state funding, even as earlier projects fell into disrepair and financial troubles.
But their company, Rezmar Corp., did come up with $1,000 to give to the political campaign fund of Barack Obama, the newly elected state senator whose district included the unheated building.”

...*What use was Obama’s “community organizer” experience to those shivering tenants?

...*What use was Obama the state senator to those shivering tenants?

...*What relationships did Obama build during his “community organizer” days that proved useless when he became state senator, and failed to keep him in touch with the community?

...*What was Obama doing in his plush state senator office that kept him too busy to know that these “struggling families” were without heat “For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997″?

...*If Obama with all his “community organizer” experience did not know what was happening in his small district office in Chicago, how in blazes does anyone think he will respond to the needs of an American electorate that numbers in the hundreds of millions?

...*What was Obama doing in his state senate office while his constituents suffered due to now indicted slumlord Antoin “Tony” Rezko, Obama’s friend of 17 years? Well, Obama was busy writing letters to get even more government money for his friends, including Rezko.

...*Who did Obama take care of and who was he busy working for - his constituents or his now indicted friend Rezko who helped Obama buy a magnificent heated house?

The Senator From Rezko,Part II quoting a Chicago Tribune editorial:

On June 13, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that as a state senator, Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting Rezko’s successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens. The Sun-Times said the deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama’s former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama’s state Senate district. Obama’s campaign responded that Obama’s letters weren’t intended as a favor for Rezko or Davis, but rather in the interest of the people in the community who have benefited from the project. An attorney for Rezko, who has pleaded not guilty to federal charges of influence peddling and bank fraud, told the newspaper that Rezko never sought a letter from Obama in connection with the project.

From Obama’s Curse:

“I’ve said to Rev. Sharpton and I’ll say it today, if there is somebody - I don’t care whether they are white or black or they are male or female - if there is somebody who has been more on the forefront on behalf of the issues you care about and has more concrete accomplishments on behalf of the things you’re concerned about, I’m happy to see you endorse them. But I am absolutely confident you will not find that.”

When it came time to defend the defenseless or protect and enrich the powerful. Obama made a decision. He protected his powerful friends and provided them with even more government money. Same old Chicago politics. The poor shivered in cold tenements. Obama bought a new house. Now he wants a bigger White House to entertain his Chicago friends.

The shivering poor will remember the missing state senator.

Comprehensive Link


...so tell me this isn't problematic and tell me why Obama doesn't refute the charges if he is innocent?

[Tellurian]

38. You're not either...Let's talk about Obama's Community Service...

Here’s what Obama told CBS News:

“The kind of experience I have outside of Washington as a community organizer, working with families who are struggling, as a constitutional law professor, as a state legislator dealing with these very issues … people find that experience at least as relevant,” he said.

Obama claims that his work as a “community organizer”, “working with families who are stuggling” and as a “state legislator” are credentials the American electorate should be impressed with and elevate him to the highest office in the land. How impressive are those credentials? What exactly did Obama do in Illinois? How did his experience as a “community organizer” inform his work as a state legislator?

We wrote in Obama - Turning Pages, Part II, the following:

Obama at the time was a State Senator representing the mostly African-Americans who lived in the Rezko owned tenements. These residents of the Rezko owned tenements presumably contacted elected officials when they found themselves living in substandard housing and freezing in the winter. Where was Obama with consitutent services? Obama should have known and it strains credulity to think he did not know. Obama had helped Rezko obtain government subsidies for these tenements and we presume some type of due diligence was performed by Obama in which he would uncover the nature of the Rezko housing.

In that same article we quoted from the Chicago Sun-Times the following:

”Obama, who has worked as a lawyer and a legislator to improve living conditions for the poor, took campaign donations from Rezko even as Rezko’s low-income housing empire was collapsing, leaving many African-American families in buildings riddled with problems — including squalid living conditions, vacant apartments, lack of heat, squatters and drug dealers. The building in Englewood was one of 30 Rezmar rehabbed in a series of troubled deals largely financed by taxpayers. Every project ran into financial difficulty. More than half went into foreclosure, a Chicago Sun-Times investigation has found. “Their buildings were falling apart,” said a former city official. “They just didn’t pay attention to the condition of these buildings.” Eleven of Rezko’s buildings were in Obama’s state Senate district.“

Here is a bit more from that Chicago Sun-Times article:

“For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997, tenants shivered without heat in a government-subsidized apartment building on Chicago’s South Side.”

“It was just four years after the landlords — Antoin “Tony” Rezko and his partner Daniel Mahru — had rehabbed the 31-unit building in Englewood with a loan from Chicago taxpayers.”

“Rezko and Mahru couldn’t find money to get the heat back on.”

“Rezmar kept getting city and state funding, even as earlier projects fell into disrepair and financial troubles.
But their company, Rezmar Corp., did come up with $1,000 to give to the political campaign fund of Barack Obama, the newly elected state senator whose district included the unheated building.”

...*What use was Obama’s “community organizer” experience to those shivering tenants?

...*What use was Obama the state senator to those shivering tenants?

...*What relationships did Obama build during his “community organizer” days that proved useless when he became state senator, and failed to keep him in touch with the community?

...*What was Obama doing in his plush state senator office that kept him too busy to know that these “struggling families” were without heat “For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997″?

...*If Obama with all his “community organizer” experience did not know what was happening in his small district office in Chicago, how in blazes does anyone think he will respond to the needs of an American electorate that numbers in the hundreds of millions?

...*What was Obama doing in his state senate office while his constituents suffered due to now indicted slumlord Antoin “Tony” Rezko, Obama’s friend of 17 years? Well, Obama was busy writing letters to get even more government money for his friends, including Rezko.

...*Who did Obama take care of and who was he busy working for - his constituents or his now indicted friend Rezko who helped Obama buy a magnificent heated house?

The Senator From Rezko,Part II quoting a Chicago Tribune editorial:

On June 13, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that as a state senator, Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting Rezko’s successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens. The Sun-Times said the deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama’s former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama’s state Senate district. Obama’s campaign responded that Obama’s letters weren’t intended as a favor for Rezko or Davis, but rather in the interest of the people in the community who have benefited from the project. An attorney for Rezko, who has pleaded not guilty to federal charges of influence peddling and bank fraud, told the newspaper that Rezko never sought a letter from Obama in connection with the project.

From Obama’s Curse:

“I’ve said to Rev. Sharpton and I’ll say it today, if there is somebody - I don’t care whether they are white or black or they are male or female - if there is somebody who has been more on the forefront on behalf of the issues you care about and has more concrete accomplishments on behalf of the things you’re concerned about, I’m happy to see you endorse them. But I am absolutely confident you will not find that.”

When it came time to defend the defenseless or protect and enrich the powerful. Obama made a decision. He protected his powerful friends and provided them with even more government money. Same old Chicago politics. The poor shivered in cold tenements. Obama bought a new house. Now he wants a bigger White House to entertain his Chicago friends.

The shivering poor will remember the missing state senator.

Comprehensive Link

[jenmito]

49. Yes I am. You, however, are not. You're only a Hillary shill.

Hillary is a candidate of convenience. Yeah-she's the candidate of change-she changes her position whenever it's no longer popular! :eyes:

[Tellurian]

51. Weaving lies to enhance Obama 's standing isn't kosher..

Obama is damaged goods. We can't afford to lose another election because you don't...get it?

[jenmito]

54. Weaving lies is Hillary's specialty...or maybe it's triangulation.

For something when it's popular, then against it when it becomes unpopular. Her experience is equivalent to Cheney's and Rumsfeld's, as Obama says. That doesn't mean they have good judgement.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

85. Cheney isn't blond and doesn't speak to humans...Where's the similarity?

:shrug:

[Tellurian]

84. I'd like a textbook definition of TRIANGULATION...

"For something when it's popular, then against it when it becomes unpopular."

because your response is incorrect. Your definition is for the word "capitulation"..

Try again.. It's not too late.

[jenmito]

86. The text of my post was not an explanation of triangulation.

I was just posting more reasons I don't support her. :eyes:

[Tellurian]

88. Well heres your quote:

or maybe it's triangulation. For something when it's popular, then against it when it becomes unpopular. Her experience is equivalent to Cheney's and Rumsfeld's, as Obama says.

I have a problem having a serious discussion with people who lack the intestinal fortitude to be true and correct in their statements.
After I've been kind enough to provide documented information from trusted sources, the least you can do is STOP the hubris and post a worthwhile response.!

[jenmito]

105. My post did not try to define triangulation.

I assumed that we all know what triangulation is and needs no further definition. I moved on from my first sentence to my next. I had no "-" or ":" after the word triangulation. Stop putting forth a strawman argument. It's not working. (See? I did it again-I followed one sentence with another one. "It's not working" wasn't a definition of "strawman argument." Get it?

[Tellurian]

108. I want to hear what your definition is...

why would you be reluctant to help people understand your post?

[jenmito]

112. "People" DO understand my post. You are the only one questioning it.

Who do you speak for other than yourself? If you don't know what triangulation is, maybe you shouldn't be here. But it WOULD explain why you support Hillary.

[Tellurian]

114. I'm the only one you're communicating with

have you polled all 100,000+ people reading here to validate your assertion?

Let's get back to my original question, seeing you brought it up.
What is your definition of Triangulation...if you know?

[jenmito]

115. You said so "PEOPLE" could understand...

You're the only one questioning whether or not I know what triangulation is, and I'm guessing it's because you can't refute that she DOES triangulate.

[Tellurian]

116. The only reason you keep refusing to answer the question is..

because you're afraid to admit you use a word that you have no idea what it means, but it sounds like you know what you're talking about.

[jenmito]

117. Wrong. I used it on another thread and gave EXAMPLES of her triangulation...

so stop with the strawman argument and tell me how she DOESN'T triangulate!

[Tellurian]

118. How can you give examples of Triangulation if you don't know what the word means..

[jenmito]

119. I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS!

:spank:

[Tellurian]

125. Just a guess...Are you really Miss Teenage South Carolina?

[jenmito]

129. Go search for my post and you'll see I DO know what it means so you can stop with your

.

[Moochy]

124. THE NEW WAR FROM 44

HILLARY IS 44!!!

44 IS WATCHING YOU!!!

GET READY FOR 44'S NEW WAR!!

[jenmito]

111. You misrepresented my post.

The "or maybe it's triangulation" was in the top line, not part of the message. HERE'S my quote:

Weaving lies is Hillary's specialty...or maybe it's triangulation.

For something when it's popular, then against it when it becomes unpopular. Her experience is equivalent to Cheney's and Rumsfeld's, as Obama says. That doesn't mean they have good judgement.
----------------------------------
Got it? I said weaving lies or maybe it's triangulation that's her specialty. THEN I went on to ADD that she's FOR something when it's popular then against it when it's not.

[Tellurian]

131. So what happend to plus55?

We hardly knew Ye!

Buh-Bye!

[jenmito]

132. What are you asking ME for???

What's wrong with you? :wtf:

[Tellurian]

133. Can you say the word...Tombstoned..

Do you know what "IT" means?

It means your rude friend has been banned from DU.

[jenmito]

134. Can you say the word...And?

Do you really think we were a "tag team" because we agreed on something? That's what you accused us of, but you're way off! :rofl:

[Tellurian]

135. And accused? your actions defined the meaning of Tag Team..

Way off? Yes, your team mate is "way off" this board...permanently!

:rofl:

[jenmito]

136. Buh bye...

Looks like you're trying to get ME banned for some reason. Not gonna happen. On "ignore" you go! :hi:

[Tellurian]

52. Refute the statement I posted.. It should be easy for you and Honest Obama...

Oh, I get it...You just found out things you didn't know about.

Line by line, paragraph by paragraph, refute what others have spent hours of time researching and have done their due diligence.

Prove if you can, what has been posted is untrue!

[jenmito]

56. Nah. No point to it. There's no convincing you of anything other than

"Hillary is perfect."

[Tellurian]

62. Sure there is....do the research...show us what we don't know..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UV3kRV46Zs

[plusfiftyfive]

74. Read the next post for my response to your chldishness

I am sure you will find it challenging.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

104. Calling me a Republican Plant is a violation of DU Rules

Try reading the Rules before you start threatening people with over 10,000 posts with banning..

Oh, and by the way...Don't attempt to send me any more threatening e-mails. It's really churlish.

[mitchtv]

8. I think he had better stop running against Bill

He'll lose

[plusfiftyfive]

13. "running against Bill"?

I don't think Barack is "running against Bill". I think Hillary is supported by people who don't want to look at anyone else. Bill is a great asset to America, for ANY President, even George W has used him!

[snowbear]

21. Reagan couldn't hold a candle to Big Dawg when it came to communicating..

No one was better than the Big Dawg!



And yeah, HRC is lucky as hell that she has him steering her ship. If ONLY it were him that was running!

Still. You seriously have to give Senator Obama major kudos when it comes to his ability to elequently address the public.

He may not be as smooth as the Big Dawg, but then again.. Big Dawg sets the bar so high that NO ONE could possibly top him! Senator Obama is pretty damned good though!



But no matter who our ultimate nominee is.. whether it's Edwards, Obama, HRC, Dodd, Biden, Kucinich, Richardson or Gravel --- we are going to be so much better off than we've been for the past 7 miserably failed years.

[mikelgb]

23. Personally I think Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Edwards

would make far better candidates than their husbands....

[Ethelk2044]

40. I think Obama makes an excellent candidate

[Tellurian]

44. He's unelectable!

[plusfiftyfive]

75. You really miss the point

Don't you!

Sorry you are so much of a closed-minded person. But that's something you can work on if you choose to.

[Tellurian]

98. I suggest when you MAKE a point...hang on to it!

[MagsDem]

46. Elizabeth for sure

Don't know much about Michele Obama, but I couldn't agree more with your comment about Elizabeth Edwards. I have met her and she is smart, charming, charasmatic and very savvy. And has more spine than John too. Although I do like John, she is every bit his equal or better. It's sad that women in this country are still socialized to think there place is to stand behind their man and not in front of him if he has political ambitions. For that alone, I hope Hilary kicks butt in the primaries. It would be a wonderful thing for this country to finally see a woman as president.

[valerief]

26. Ah, so that's why the GOP is against same-sex marriage. nt

[rinsd]

32. !!!!

:spray:

[jenmito]

28. I thought the same exact thing and said so, too!

I saw Hillary AND Obama on C-Span and I said, "Does anyone think that Hillary would even BE a presidential candidate if Bill wasn't her husband? Yet is Obama running on his wife's coattails?" It's clear that the answer to both of those questions is NO. Hillary is running as "Mrs. Bill Clinton," with Bill sitting on stage or nearby. People I've spoken to have ALL said they want to see BILL back in the WH. I have yet to hear one person say they would vote for Obama because they want to see his WIFE in the WH (although she'd be a great asset).

We can get Obama to say that Hillary didn't seem to have a problem with a newcomer becoming president in '92, and that if Hillary wants to use her husband's admin. as a "plus," she can't also run as the candidate of change.

Watching Obama speak made it so clear to me that we need him in the WH and we need to be DONE with the Bush-Clinton dynasty, partisanship, divisiveness, etc. She prides herself on being used to attacks from the RWers, knowing how to fight them, etc. Obama, on the other hand, prides HIMSELF on being new, with over two decades of experience NOT in Washington, of bringing people together while holding true to his Dem. values, saying that he will always tell us what he thinks unlike Hillary, and I like his message a lot more than I like hers.

[MagsDem]

43. She's not running as Mrs. Bill Clinton

anymore than he was running as Mr. Hilary Clinton when he used her as an asset when he ran. I imagine some of you here aren't old enough to remember his campaigns all that well, but to those of us that do remember them, statements like yours can sometimes appear sexists (even if you don't mean them to be). They have always run every campaign as a team, whether it be his or hers. That is their history, and I would venture to say it is one of the reasons both have been successful in politics.

[jenmito]

120. If Bill Clinton wasn't her husband, she would NOT be running as well as she is in the polls

No way, no how. Every person I've spoken to about politics said they'd only vote for Hillary to get Bill back in the WH. Not one person I know thinks Hillary would even BE a candidate if it wasn't for Bill. Yes, when HE was running he said she'd be an asset. Just as Michelle would be a great asset if Barack became president. But neither Bill nor Barack were/are riding on their spouse's coattails.

I'm not sexist. I'd LOVE to see Barbara Boxer run for president. I don't even know if she's married or not. I'd vote for her for HER.

[Tellurian]

126. Michelle is a detriment to her husband's campaign..

She sounds like a Bowery fish wife when she belittles her husband in front of a crowd in her rude raspy voice.. chilling..

[truedelphi]

36. Bill is both an attack point and an asset

I do think for anyone but the Right Wing neocons, Bill is a tremendous asset to Hillary (just as she was to him)

But I am ready for some new energy.

Self-edited to remove bad taste remarks

[MagsDem]

41. Well I figure Bill and Hil are a two-fer...

Just like they were when Bill ran and won. I voted for him partially because he had a smart involved woman by his side, and I will vote for her for the same reason. I really like Edwards better in some ways. But it's the two-fer that seals the deal for me. Would not vote for Obama in a primary for many reasons -- not least of which is that he doesn't have enough experience and appears politically naive. His BS attacks on Hilary when he had to back pedal on his naive foreign policy statements really took him off my maybe list. Obama is not the one, even if Hilary weren't running.

[Colobo]

91. With Obama, America wins. That's the bottom line.

[Tellurian]

96. Prove it!

[Forkboy]

99. LOL

:silly:

[waiting for hope]

106. My Goodness -

That was sure fun! :popcorn:

[sniffa]

113. briLLiant

:rofl:

[Imagevision]

121. Well, Barack is pretty tight with Oprah, so can Oprah make any difference being that

today she stated that Obama is the only candidate she has admitted to be support of 100%
So, it's Hil & Bill Vs. Barack & Michelle & Oprah.

[LittleClarkie]

122. I thought you were going to say he didn't have maguppies

:P

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bongo Prophet]

127. Fare thee well +55, a rather clumsy faux-Obama supporter

Just stirring up shit.
Like we need more of that?

[OHdem10]

130. You are right on--This is why from the beginning,

I Thought Barak should wait to run for President.

For many in our party--it is Hilary's turn really
means something whether we agree or not.