Calling out the records of the Bush Dog Democrats...and wow am I in the mood for that this week.

[madfloridian]

I have been a pathetically lone voice where I live over the "Dean and the DNC stole our votes" baloney that has gone on here all week.

So I am thinking this project by Open Left is a wonderful thing. Various bloggers are taking one or more of the Blue Dogs who are acting more like Bush Dogs, and they are analyzing their voting records and posting them on line.

Here is the latest on the project from Open Left. Remember...this Allen Boyd from Florida is the one who office told me after the FISA fiasco.. that it takes courage to vote against your own party. Yes, they really said that.

We Need Your Help on These 16 Bush Dogs

Well so far 23 Bush Dogs have been profiled, which is amazing. We still need these 17 to be written up. If you have a blog and want some extra traffic, or if you just want a better Democratic majority, consider grabbing one and profiling him. I've found these profiles invaluable when doing work on the Bush Dogs. Instructions on how to do this are here. If you want to profile someone who has already been written up, that's great too.
CO-03: John Salazar
IN-02: Joe Donnelly
IN-08: Brad Ellsworth
IN-09: Baron Hill
KY-06: Ben Chandler
MS-04: Gene Taylor
NC-02: Bob Etheridge
ND-AL: Earl Pomeroy
SD-AL: Stephanie Herseth
TN-04: Lamar Davis
TN-05: Jim Cooper
TN-06: Bart Gordon
TN-08: John Tanner
TX-17: Chet Edwards
TX-22: Nick Lampson
TX-28: Henry Cuellar

As always, if you've gotten one done, leave a link to your Bush Dog profile in the comments or email it to me at stoller at gmail.com.

At Taylor Marsh's site, Booman's post about Florida's own Allen Boyd, big shot Blue Dog.

BushDog Campaign Profile: Rep. Allen Boyd

There is a thorough analysis there, but it turns out he was the only one to support private accounts for Social Security in this form. Trust me, others do, but use varied terminology.

H.R.440 Title: To amend title II of the Social Security Act to provide for individual security accounts funded by employee and employer Social Security payroll deductions, to extend the solvency of the old-age, survivors, and disability insurance program, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Kolbe, Jim (introduced 2/1/2005) Cosponsors (1)
COSPONSORS(1), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)
Rep Boyd, Allen - 2/1/2005

Here is more about the dangerous FISA bill for which he voted.

Fisa Bill is "Unwarranted Betrayal" ....Albany Times

[IndianaGreen]

1. Are you dense or something? Do you want us to get rid of Baron Hill and put back...

that fundie moron that he replaced? Not in your life!

Joe Donnelly defeated the crypto-nazi and anti-labour Chris Chocola. Every union man and woman voted for Donnelly because they had been fucked so badly by Chocola. Brad Ellsworth defeated long-time incumbent John Hostettler, a real knuckle-dragger. We Hoosiers were very happy with the GOP seats we took in 2006, and we like it that way.

This Dean worship has reached a pathological level!

[madfloridian]

3. I am not bright.

I highly approve of figuring out which of the Blue Dogs vote with Bush on serious issues.

Bye IG. Your hatred of me is overwrought,

[IndianaGreen]

5. Your idea of replacing Blue Dog Democrats with Republicans is disturbing

I can only speak for Indiana, and you are way off the mark in your personal crusade.

[knight_of_the_star]

8. I don't see anything about replacing Blue Dogs with Republicans

Just the list of Blue Dogs that need to be reminded they are accountable for their actions. We can replace them in the primaries and knowing how bad the GOP is in trouble this coming season we should hold the seats.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Replace them in the primaries? Do you even know the demographics of their Districts?

Indiana turned blue in 2006, but in doing so we elected centrist and slightly right-of-center Democrats. When one considers the incumbent crypto-nazis and anti-labour knuckle draggers that our candidates defeated, we are lucky to have our new Democrats in the House.

[Zodiak]

24. But if they vote with Republicans

on important bills like spying on Americans, then what is the difference?

The answer is: not much.

Blue Dogs need to be replaced with more progressive Democrats or populist Democrats in the case of red districts.

[paulk]

25. the difference is committee chairmanships in the House

and the investigative power that comes with that.

[Zodiak]

31. Like I said...not much

Especially when said conservative Democrats sit on those committees as well and scuttle the work of the other Democrats. Also, the difference isn't there when every time a serious issue comes up these loons break ranks before the debate even starts, making our leadership look ineffective.

Case in point.....the Iraq war votes, the FISA votes, impeachment off of the table, etc. etc.

[paulk]

45. maybe they're representing their constituents

most of these districts are very conservative....



--------------------------

and the impeachment movement doesn't even have broad based support among Democrats. I don't see why you included that, unless it's just your personal progressive laundry list. It's hardly a "blue dog" issue.

[Zodiak]

47. Only if they live in Utah

Bush is wildly unpopular, as are his power-grabbing policies.

The Blue Dogs/DLC are not representing their disticts as they are now....not unless they live in Utah.

And the reason impeachment doesn;t have broad support amongst Democrats is because of risk aversion, risk aversion because the conservative dems have threatened to split the party. At least that is the explanation we are getting (see also, Conyers explanation as to why impeachment will not be pursued).

We are NOT getting the explanation that America is conservative. We only get that as an apology on this board even though the evidence is to the contrary and has been for well-over a year. They don;t represent Americans...they represent the corporations and the Republicans. They are place-holders that render the opposition party ineffetive even when we are in power....and they give us a bad name as wishy-washy and without ideas.

Is Carper in a red district, Feinstein, Cantwell (I know the Senate much better than the House)? No, they are not. The "representing their red state constituents" meme is a wash and a convenient excuse to keep people in the party that actively work against everything it stands for....thus making it ineffective.

[cmd]

26. You don't have a clue, do you?

For some of our districts, Blue Dog is as good as it gets. A more progressive Dem would not have the chance of a snowball in hell of winning the OH-18th. We'll be lucky to keep our Blue Dog.

[Zodiak]

32. Well, apart from your acusation that I know nothing

(in the absence of any evidence), I would say that I was raised in a red district and know very well at least what North Texans think (which is still red, by the way).

I also see how you conveniently skipped my argument that POPULISTS will do better in red districts, focusing only on my statement about progressives. For Democrats like Carper, then progressives should replace them. For Democrats like Nelson, populists should replace them.

Reading comprehension helps with your written rhetoric, and so does avoiding ad hominem attacks.

Ohio is one of those states deperately in need of populists (being a rust-belt state). Corporate Democrats who sign over all of the powers to Bush he wants are not doing us any favors. Bush is tremendously unpopular in Ohio, so why capitulate to his demands? Because their voters want them to?

Please show me evidence of this.

This country has changed a LOT since 2004. It is not conservative, and it is not for Bush any more...even in red districts.

[snowbear]

2. Didn't Nick Lampson win Tom Delay's old seat?

I don't care how much of a B-Dawg he is, he HAS to be better than Tom Delay!

[madfloridian]

4. Yes, that is what we keep telling ourselves.

And many voted with Bush on the war and on the FISA bill....and those are the ones they are labeling.

We have lost Florida now to the right wing Democrats. Texas has been that way.

But if that is your district, that is your right.

[snowbear]

7. Florida... please don't get mad at IndianaGreen!

She, like you, is one of the sweetest DU'ers in the entire world!

The point that we're trying to make is..

In some of those locations, we're still light years away from getting ulta-liberal Democrats elected.

And even if that list of Dems are "DLC types", we have to weigh the consequences.. A DLC Democrat or a batshit crazy Republican?

I know you've lost Florida to wingnut Dems.. but I dunno.. I still have to wonder how much of that is corrupt voting versus what the voters actually want?

Anyway.. please don't be mad at IG.. she rocks.. just like you!

[knight_of_the_star]

9. What good is it to replace the batshit crazy GOP

If all we get is a Dem who votes the same way on the issues that matter? The people who jumped to nail Pelosi to a cross over the war funding bill were the same to ignore the Blue Dogs who sold out people and party on the issue, we need to get those people first.

[snowbear]

11. Have you reviewed every vote of the DLC Dems verses the Batshit Crazies?

You're right that they aren't much better... But when the only two choices are lousy and lousier, hey... never go for the dirty r-THUG ---- ever.

Some of our new "moderate Dems" are incredibly popular.

Take Jon Tester of Montana for example.. They LOVE him in the bigsky state!

.......... Would Conrad Burns be better? NO!!!

Or how about Bob Casey of PA?

.......... Would Rick INSANE-itorium be better? NO!!!

And what would we have without Jim Webb?

.......... We'd have Macacca !!

Just the thought of those three former ugly thuglies alone! ACK! = =

[madfloridian]

13. Open Left is EXAMINING the votes they make. It is a good project.

We have lost Florida to Democrats who really are not anymore.

I think I am going to work on or at least push this project.

If they vote like Republicans, then they might as well be.

[snowbear]

14. If this group is working on supporting another Democrat...

... financially and in every other possible way, I can see why they'd want to try and replace a DLC Dem with a more progressive candidate.

And if that's what their research is doing, then kudos to them!!

If it's only to dig up ammo the other side could ultimately use.. I guess I just don't see the point.

Supporting the most progressive Democrat = GOOD

Voting for the Ugly-Thugly over a DLC-Dem (if that's the only Dem running) = NOT GOOD

[madfloridian]

28. They are going to pick a small number to challenge

That's all.

Let them all vote Republican.

[madfloridian]

12. She has been attacking me for ages now.

I am not taking it anymore.

This is a good post, a good cause. Talk to her.

[IndianaGreen]

15. A bit melodramatic, aren't we?

pot calling the kettle black.

:eyes:

[last_texas_dem]

21. Yeah, he's better than Delay

and his is one of those elections that was definitely a special circumstance due to Delay's opponent being a write-in with a mouthful of a name, "Shelley Sekula-Gibbs." It is quite unlikely Lampson would have been able to win that district if not for the circumstances regarding Delay's indictment and the candidate the Repugs favored to replace him being a write-in. Lampson may be the freshman Democrat who will have the biggest uphill battle keeping his seat in 2008, and even if he is considered to have done a good job by the majority of the voters in his Congressional district he may well end up replaced by a no-name Republican simply due to the favored ideology of that Congressional district.

Really, Lampson is the best, and perhaps a little better than, what can be expected of a district that has Sugar Land and a number of well-off Houston suburbs as its base. I have regretted some of the votes that he has cast (though I do not live in his district) but I think he has constantly had to keep in mind the wants of his constituency. I don't believe he is personally as conservative as his voting record may indicate but I think he has to make some compromises if he wants to have a shot of retaining his seat. Before Delay re-redistricted him out of his seat he represented a more Democratic East Texas district, including Beaumont and Galveston, and IIRC his ADA score was in the high seventies (certainly not perfect, but better than can generally be expected from a Texas Democratic Rep outside of Austin, South Texas, and some urban districts within the largest cities) so he is really not a right-wing Democrat, even if his voting record in his new district is more conservative than any liberal, including myself, likes to see.

[madfloridian]

36. Full info and a chart.

They are not going crazy. They are trying to get some accountability.

Read this and follow the link to the chart.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3495894&mesg_id=3496365

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

16. "Bush Dogs." Mean and vengeful. Keep it up.

[snowbear]

17. I have to agree with aquart on this one...

Geez.. This whole thing just doesn't sit right with me.

You see - when we won back the house in 2006, one reason was that an awful lot of gun-toting, meat-eating, moderates that ran in RED country wound up winning.



And in other locations.. where the Democrat wasn't liberal enough, voters took care of that too! Enter Sheldon Whitehouse.. ... Exit Lincoln Chafee.

If only all places ran elections like that one.. where they kicked out even a Republican against the war only because he was a Republican!

I realize that many Democrats would love a Congress that was half Kucinich, with a sprikle of Russ Feingold, and a good dose of Dr. Dean...

But we're doing the best we can with getting the type of person that can actually be elected in certain areas that just... ... well, let's just say that they're not the type of Democrats that hang out at DU.

We have lefty Dems and we have moderate Dems... Love ot or hate it, we have a BIG TENT party.

But even our gun-toting, 'backie-chewin', bible reading, meat-eatin' good ol' Democrats (many of them veterans) really shouldn't be referred to as "Bush" anything.

[aquart]

18. Rats. You're right.

But sometimes I just feel mean.

[madfloridian]

37. Chart and more info.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3495894&mesg_id=3496365

How about voting to give Bush and Gonzales unlimited power? Nothing mean about that, right? They will do it again.

Chart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3495894&mesg_id=3496365

[Hippo_Tron]

19. As much as their votes bother me, many of these Dems come from very red districts

I can tell you that Gene Taylor is the best you will get out of the Mississippi 4th. He's at least an economic populist and worked to hold the administration accountable on things like Abu Ghreib and Halliburton. The district is so overwhelmingly socially conservative that if he bends on social issues or national security issues, he will leave himself vulnerable to a Republican challenger.

I think a better focus would be on getting rid of Republicans in blue areas. For example, Mike Castle (R) is Delaware's at large Representative. Chris Shays (R) is a Representatives in Connecticut that represents a blue district. Both of these Republicans represent constituencies that would be willing to elect a strong liberal Democrat. Our best bet is to work on getting rid of these guys.

[snowbear]

20. Hippo-Tron.. in regards to Chris Shays...

I'd sure like to see this guy run!!!!!

According to Nathan Gonzales of the Rothenberg Political Report, Connecticut Democrats are weighing the possibility of running former NHL superstar Mike Richter against the last Republican House member left standing in New England: the battle-hardened Chris Shays.

As a longtime hockey fan, the idea certainly leaves me feeling a little giddy. Richter was a career-long member of the New York Rangers, carrying them alongside Mark Messier, Adam Graves and Brian Leetch to a historical Stanley Cup victory in 1994. His Rangers jersey is only one of four to hang retired in the rafters of the Madison Square Garden. That's got to carry at least a little bit of resonance in the NYC metro area, even if hockey hasn't exactly been the taste du jour of the area in the past few years.

As for his connection to the district, Richter is a recent graduate of Yale, where he obtained a degree in Ethics, Politics & Economics in 2006. According to Gonzales, he also found the time to campaign for Democrat John Hall in his upset victory over Sue Kelly in NY-19. Makes you like him even more, doesn't it?

As the New York Rangers Goalie, he lifted the Stanley Cup.. now, is he ready to lift Shays out of office?

[cali]

22. Whether it's Richter or another dem

Shays days are numbered. I doubt he'll pull it off next year.

[madfloridian]

35. No they are finding out that is not quite true.

See my post below about the FISA vote and Iraq capitulation vote.

[Forkboy]

23. "this week"?

:evilgrin:

[zulchzulu]

27. I'm all for it

The Blue Dog Democrats need to be analyzed and exposed for their votes. If they live in a red district, perhaps we need to also look at those parameters. I would fully expect that those zones are now at least purple thanks to this administration.

It can't hurt to shine some light on the murky excuseniks.

[wndycty]

29. So you want to go after Nick Lampson?

Jeeze talk about biting your nose off to spite your face. Yikes.

[onenote]

30. I'm for it...if its done honestly

I think an honest and complete analysis of the voting records of many of the Blue Dogs would be eye opening for those who claim that there is no difference between a blue dog and a repub (assuming those making such claims are willing to have their eyes opened). More than half of the Blue Dogs vote with the Democratic Party position 90 percent of the time or more (and more than 80 percent of them support the party's position 85 percent of the time). An honest appraisal of a BLue Dog like Melissa Bean would reveal that she gets a score of "F" from the NRA, and 100 percent from Planned Parenthood and NARAL. She gets a 34 percent ranking from the RW National Taxpayers Union, but an 89 percent rating from the NAACP and 100 percent from NEA. FInd me a repub, any repub, whose rankings even approach those. DOes Bean take positions with which I disagree? Absolutely. But anyone who claims that having her in office is no better than having a repub in the seat is, not to put too fine a point on it, lying through their teeth.

Again, consider Heath Shuler - a progressive Democrat? Of course not. But what progressive Democrat is going to be elected in his district considering that every single one of the 13 rural counties that comprise his district gave more votes to Bush than to Kerry in 2004, giving chimpy about 35,000 more votes (10 percent) than Kerry. Nationally, Bush scored only 3 percent more votes than Kerry.

Welcome to the real, and honest, world.

[wndycty]

33. You are so right. . .

. . .and all politics is local. A Blue Dog Democrat may be too far too the right for DUers from Florida but they are usually a good fit for their district. When you talk about control of the House and the Senate, its important that they are there. Also as your analysis of Bean shows their overall records are still very solidly Democratic.

[madfloridian]

34. The capitulation vote on Iraq and FISA powers vote

are two of the main things being looked at. They indicate future voting habits. Of the 41 who voted for FISA, 30 were Blue Dogs.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=917

"So who specifically are these people? As Chris Bowers noted, the two biggest defeats for House Democrats so far in 2007 have been the capitulation vote on Iraq, and the vote to allow Alberto Gonzales warrant-less wiretapping powers. We're calling the Democrats who capitulated on both bills 'Bush Dogs', as these are the most likely to capitulate on important fights in the future."

" By and large, the conservative Democratic elites really don't care, and they think they are going to win in 2008 without having to lead on anything the public or the activists in the party thinks is important. For instance, DCCC Chair Chris Van Hollen complained about progressives upset with Chris Carney, even though Carney lied to get campaign contributions in 2006 and just endorsed a Republican for President. This is part of a pattern. DCCC recruitment chair Artur Davis complained earlier after the blank check bill passed that Moveon was criticizing Democrats, saying, "I would urge MoveOn and others to recognize that the person who is extending this war is George Bush."

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=817

"The two biggest defeats for House Democrats so far in 2007 have been the capitulation vote on Iraq, and the vote to allow Alberto Gonzales warrant-less wiretapping powers. Here are some vital statistics on the 38 Democrats, the “Bush Dogs,” who voted in favor of both bills, and thus are the most likely to capitulate on important fights in the future:

There is a chart that has the info from Charlie Cook's site about the Partisan Voting Index from their districts. Most are from districts that are truly not that red at all...and would be all right with someone who stood for what they believed. A few are more so....but nothing like what we have been led to believe is true.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=817

The chart is far more readable there than if I copied it here.

[wndycty]

38. Bite your nose off to spite your face, bite your nose off to spite your face. . .

. . .ignore the realities of the district, ignore the realities of the state, ignore the Representative's/Senator's overall record on progressive issues. If a certain allegedly progressive Democrat from Florida is upset they must die!

[madfloridian]

39. You did not have time to read the chart.

It is very telling. Many of those Democrats are from not so very red districts.

[wndycty]

40. Waaa Waaa Waaa

:kick:

[onenote]

44. and here's what the chart doesn't tell you

CHarlie COok's PVI is an interesting concept, but it is just one way of looking at how "red" or "blue" a district is.

Take Leonard Boswell (Iowa - 3) for example. The Cook PVI indicates that the district leans Dem by a plus 1.4 margin.

But take another look. The third district is made up of 12 counties. In 2004, Boswell captured eight of those counties, lost three, and split one almost dead even. He won his race by 32,000 votes largely on the strength of his winning the largest county in the district (Polk) by 27,000 votes. In the same year, chimpy defeated kerry in seven of those same 12 counties. Chimpy lost the county by around 2000 votes (a margin of under 7/10ths of one percent) largely because he lost Polk county to kerry by around 10,000 votes. But think about it -- that means that nearly 2/3 of the 27,000 vote margin that Boswell had in Polk went for chimpy instead of kerry.

You can call the district "blue" because it went for Boswell and kerry, but the reality is that its a closely divided district. Given that Boswell votes with the party 94 percent of the time, I'm not sure that "targeting" him is the smartest use of limited resources.

[madfloridian]

46. They are not "targeting" yet. They are analyzing.

No one is bothering to really read this.

Since this project started just a few weeks ago, several Democrats are rethinking votes.

This is an important project. We used to donate to Boswell when he was once sponsored by DFA. I would get his emails also.

If we give in to Bush on the most important issues of our country...Iraq funding and wire tapping citizens...then their votes are impacting me.

How they vote on federal issues such as that not only affect their district, they affect all of us.

[madfloridian]

41. FISA votes...30 of the 41 yes votes were Blue Dogs

Fact: you can attack me for posting the campaign by the bloggers to hold them accountable...or you can watch the research and see just what is really going on. Remember this vote was well after Gonzales's hearings and his incompetence proven.

Why did they vote yes?

The yes votes:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1420

Jason Altmire (4th Pennsylvania) New Democrat
John Barrow (12th Georgia) Blue Dog
Melissa Bean (8th Illinois) Blue Dog
Dan Boren (2nd Oklahoma) Blue Dog
Leonard Boswell (3rd Iowa) Blue Dog
Allen Boyd (2nd Florida) Blue Dog
Christopher Carney (10th Pennsylvania) Blue Dog
Ben Chandler (6th Kentucky) Blue Dog
Rep. Jim Cooper (5th Tennessee) Blue Dog
Jim Costa (20th California) Blue Dog
Bud Cramer (5th Alabama) Blue Dog
Henry Cuellar (28th Texas) New Democrat
Artur Davis (7th Alabama) New Democrat
Lincoln Davis (4th Tennessee) Blue Dog
Joe Donnelly (2nd Indiana) Blue Dog
Chet Edwards (17th Texas)
Brad Ellsworth (8th Indiana) Blue Dog
Bob Etheridge (North Carolina) New Democrat
Bart Gordon (6th Tennessee) Blue Dog
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (South Dakota) Blue Dog
Brian Higgins (27th New York)New Democrat
Baron Hill (9th Indiana) Blue Dog
Nick Lampson (23rd Texas) Blue Dog
Daniel Lipinski (3rd Illinois)
Jim Marshall (8th Georgia) Blue Dog
Jim Matheson (2nd Utah) Blue Dog
Mike McIntyre (7th North Carolina) Blue Dog
Charlie Melancon (3rd Louisiana) Blue Dog
Harry Mitchell (5th Arizona)
Colin Peterson (7th Minnesota) Blue Dog
Earl Pomeroy (North Dakota) Blue Dog
Ciro Rodriguez (23rd Texas) Blue Dog
Mike Ross (4th Arkansas) Blue Dog
John Salazar (3rd Colorado) Blue Dog
Heath Shuler (11th North Carolina) Blue Dog
Vic Snyder (2nd Arkansas) New Democrat
Zachary Space (18th Ohio) Blue Dog
John Tanner (8th Tennessee) Blue Dog
Gene Taylor (4th Mississippi) Blue Dog
Timothy Walz (1st Minnesota)
Charles A. Wilson (6th Ohio) Blue Dog

Question them or call me names.

[Zodiak]

42. They seems to prefer calling you names

I am taking notice since I handle the Senate end most of the time. Nice to see (not really) that the same horrible pattern exists within the House.

Can someone tell me why the "big tent" always means more conservatives but never more progressives?

[madfloridian]

43. Very good point.

:hi: