Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.

[madfloridian]

Florida DEC chairs are organizing against the DNC and the candidates to cut funding to them and to wreak havoc on what order might be left in our state.

No one has believed me really. This email was passed on. I took names out.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
For what it is worth, I am passing on the latest from the FL DEC Chairs Assn....
_______
________

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Money Talks

Following is what I sent out to my local blast with a forward of the FDP newsletter...It might be something you may want to encourage...

Fellow Democrats,

Concerning some of the comments I have been getting about the Democratic candidates signing the 4 state Pledge (NO campaigning in Florida before Jan 29th), I am suggesting that if your are, or were, planning on sending a check to your presidential candidate of choice, send a check to the FDP instead!

Several substantial fundraisers who have historically given to the DNC are giving to the FDP instead. That's a start. In addition, several Democrats who had endorsed candidates are withdrawing their endorsements. Those endorsements usually come with contributions, which are being withheld also.

Let the money talk and show your support for Florida Democrats!

Please go to the FDP website http://www.fladems.com/ and click the upper right button "Contribute". Join the forces lending support to our debate with the DNC.

__________, Chair


Democratic Executive Committee of St. Lucie County
412 Farmers Market Road
Ft. Pierce, Fl 34982
772-464-0500 W
772-464-0563 F
772-461-3448 H
772-577-0276 Cell
http://stluciedemocrats.com/


************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_______________________________________________
DEC-Chairs-Talk mailing list

[madfloridian]

1. And a reminder that another county threatened even more.

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed

Just FYI, in case it bothers anyone else that a state is trying to hurt the DNC and the candidates.

Why? I have no idea.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

8. You have no idea why Floridians might think about cutting the cash?

Really? No idea at all?

"No taxation without representation?"

What the hell did anyone think was going to happen with this?

Still waiting to hear how the caucuses will work. That'll be a hoot.

Dig in, guys. I was wondering how we'd lose this one, now I know.

[madfloridian]

9. It is very hard for me to argue anymore with someone...

whose name means bat excrement...so I think I will let you think whatever you want to think.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

18. Ooh, SNAP!

The cheap joke is easier than answering the question, I guess. (Which was what the Florida Dems can do to fix this. And if the answer is "caucus", I'd love to know how that can be done without disenfranchising a huge number of Florida voters.)

(BTW, the name Col Bat Guano is a character from DR. STRANGELOVE, whose extreme adherence to the rules is so short sighted that he's willing to risk total global destruction rather than to vary from said rules. You'd love it!)

[madfloridian]

19. The DNC needs big bucks to fight the CA electoral mess..Dean is fighting it hard

SO...here's Florida saying let's take their money away.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

22. This is getting better and better

"Let's fight the Republicans over there so we don't have to fight them over here!"

Yeah, it's important to deal with the California situation so as not to lose the two dozen electoral votes.

Not sure why it's a great idea to hit Florida so hard, considering the national party needs our votes AND apparently our money.

[xxqqqzme]

32. There is no electoral mess here...YET.

The neo-cons want this state so bad they stay up nights trying to figure out how to screw us over. The CDP, amazingly, is on top of this latest scheme(they were AWOL on the recall) to steal the state. It also appears the word has been handed down because our occasionally involved Regional Director as well as County Chair are all over the RW scheme. The signature gathering has not yet started but I'm certain big bucks will be paid for each signature gathered. The intent has been filed as far as I know but that is as far as it has gone.

[madfloridian]

34. I posted about a conference call with Dean and Boxer.

I hope the early fight on it will help. This is just one scheme among many.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1743758&mesg_id=1743758

[catgirl]

20. Has Karl Rove befriended them?

I'm so disgusted with these idiots.

[illinoisprogressive]

2. I've believed you all the time.

[madfloridian]

4. That is only one letter.

They were reworded from various DEC chairs.

[madfloridian]

3. Guess whose county?

"Welcome to the St. Lucie County Democrats Website (Under Construction)
The St. Lucie County Democrats is the party for all the people of St. Lucie County. With a County Commission of all Democrats, strong support for Democratic candidates in the 2006 election including support for now Congressman Tim Mahoney; St. Lucie County is a solid blue County.

St. Lucie County has over 200,000 residents. The Historic Downtown Fort Pierce has recently undergone a great renassance. Port St. Lucie, the newest of the two cities, has experienced tremendous growth in the last couple of years. Money magazine recently ranked Port St. Lucie 12th fastest job growth in the nation."

Link in the OP.

Just saying in case anyone might possibly think this might possibly be a case of party disunity.

Just saying.

Now I am going to shed a tear or so because I remember how I felt until the last year or so. In 2003 we felt on top of the world, and even after the campaign ended we remained with DFA. We kept working.

Just the last year though since we saw the way things went down here for the 06 elections....did we realize that Florida is a long way from being ready for new enthusiasm and new leaders.

What happened to a supposedly blue county in 06

[saracat]

7. I am so sorry Madflo.This is beyond awful!

[madfloridian]

10. It really is.

It is dividing us here terribly.

There is no need for it. If Florida had stayed at Feb. 5 they would have had all their delegates, and this tension would not be here.

[mrdmk]

5. This comes down to, "If you do not play by my rules, I take the ball and go home"!

These people want to look good creating a problem, not solving one.

What a joke, if the Democrats had any sense they would have let the Republicans vote themselves into a corner.

[Me.]

6. No Disrespect Intended (Really)

But hasn't Florida been enough of a problem for dems without this? I don't understand what they hope to achieve by this, splitting the party? Will they become their own party?

[madfloridian]

11. No disrespect taken.

They already do seem to be their own party.

[madfloridian]

12. Video from South Florida

of Senator Steve Geller saying not to support any candidates. This after they have said not to support the DNC.

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=152875

The video was from an appearance by Bill Clinton at a large money fundraiser.

Geller is quoted being very firm.

That would be this Geller.

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"

[madfloridian]

13. Dean knows they are withholding funds..reminds them DNC spend.

"DNC Chairman Howard Dean warned state party leaders last week that it will only help Republicans if Florida Democrats cut off money for the national committee or presidential contenders. Dean also reminded them that the DNC is putting up $350,000 a year to pay salaries of six staffers for the state party. He asked Florida DNC members to call off the congressional delegation, which aides to Sen. Bill Nelson and Rep. Alcee Hastings said won't happen.

So who's right? The Republicans, with their glacially impervious confidence that Florida is too important to snub at the national convention? Or the Democrats, with their loud and public sniping at each other?

What's going on now probably won't affect who carries Florida in 14 months.

But it's just so typical of each party. "

http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070906/COLUMNIST03/709060342/1010/NEWS01

Florida can't have their cake and eat it, too. Maybe they would rather not have the staffers....6 of them, huh. More than most states.

Grossly unfair actions by Florida.

[cobalt1999]

14. Good for Florida Democrats!

It's about time we stood up in this state.

You've got a DNC subcommittee that wants to override when the people in this state want to vote, then they threaten the delegates and tell the candidates they can't campaign here...BUT collecting money from Floridians is okay.

They can't have it both ways. If the DNC wants to not count Florida delegates and not allowing candidates to campaign here, then why should they get our money?

Talk about hypocrisy.

[mohc]

15. Its about reconciliation

The FDP wants the DNC to back down, the DNC wants the FDP to back down. Both sides of the issue have merit, and I think reasonable people can disagree on this one. I, a Floridian, happen to side with the DNC. Often times with tough issues such as this, I find that observing the behavior of the two sides helps me make a decision as to which side I support. When I see two people arguing about an issue, one of them yelling and the other talking calmly, I tend to find that the calm one is correct. The FDP is doing everything it can to make the situation worse. You may feel the DNC is doing the same, but I do not see it. Especially now that basically all the candidates are siding with the DNC, the FDP is all alone in its tirade. I hope this all works out, but the FDP is giving the DNC no room to compromise.

[cobalt1999]

17. I'd think it's all about positioning right now.

Both sides are playing hardball right now. I don't see the DNC offering compromise either.

The candidates are just stuck in the middle. On one hand they can't piss off the official early states (thus, their signing the pledge), on the other hand they can't bypass Florida & Michigan. So, they sign a pledge with lots of loopholes and hope to walk the tightrope until this is resolved without appearing to take sides.

If it comes down to who will have to blink first, Florida & Michigan will win. Florida & Michigan have their voters support, they have their congressional support, they have the money, and the candidates need them. They can afford to wait.

[madfloridian]

29. Florida and Michigan both lose even if they win.

The bitterness from all of this is going to stay.

They both could have achieved their goals in other ways.

[xxqqqzme]

30. damn, you need an education in

Democratic Party rules. You need to leasrn a little more about how it all works. The DNC sub-committee isn'r over riding anyone. The Florida Democratic party has membership in the DNC - they are required to be a member, if they are using the designation 'Democratic'. FL Dem Party has members on various committees w/i the DNC. Now if YOUR FDP members are not attending their quarterly meeting or contributing to the RULES committee, then DON'T blame the DNC. It is your fault for not paying attention to your party. Your state & county party need maintenance and attention. If you do not understand, at this late stage, that Howard Dean's entire message, energy and activity builds from a solid foundation of grassroots activism supporting politics as LOCAL, you will never get it.

The monumental fuck up in Florida is not the DNC's fault. It is your back yard.

[cobalt1999]

33. Well, maybe you need to learn how state legislatures work.

The states have the authority to manage their own elections. The state legislators in both Michigan and Florida are following the desires of their voters (those local people Dean talks about) and are constitutionally authorized to move their elections where they see fit.

The state legislatures and governors do NOT report to the DNC or RNC sub-committees. They respond to their LOCAL constituents. If the vast majority of their people are at odds with a National Party sub-committee decision, then the state legislatures should do what we ask of any elected official....do what your voters are demanding you do.

Isn't that what we ask of any elected official?

[madfloridian]

36. Of course....the state sets primary date, but the DNC controls delegates

And each did what they had to do...but the DNC has not played the blame game and been ugly.

[Vickers]

16. I'm in Florida, and I'm waiting until after the primary season to contribute.

Fair enough.

[madfloridian]

21. Florida's party boss, Bill Nelson, will have an announcement today

Looks like he is in charge of the party here for sure. Sounds like a lawsuit. I may be wrong. It would be one more way to break the finnacial back of the DNC.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/entries/2007/09/06/friday_dem_primary_meeting_pos.html

"Florida Democrats this morning have canceled Friday’s planned meeting on the Jan. 29 primary situation, which would have included discussions about setting caucuses so late in the process — possibly May — that the January primary would maintain its relative importance even though it would technically be non-binding.

Word is that U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson plans to announce some action challenging the Democratic National Committee’s sanctions against Florida today, and that the state party did not want to “get sideways” with the state’s top elected Democratic, said one insider."

(The state party did not want to "get sideways" with him? Oh, Lordy, he really is boss here.)

[madfloridian]

23. Update about Leader Bill Nelson's announcement.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/entries/2007/09/06/friday_dem_primary_meeting_pos.html

"UPDATE: While Nelson has started laying groundwork for a possible lawsuit regarding the DNC sanction, he is not planning any announcement today on that issue. Instead, he is filing a bill that would formalize a system of regional primaries for the 2012 presidential election.

Nelson did, though, lobby against holding the meeting Friday, arguing that it was premature and too early to put a caucus plan on the table.
State Party spokesman Mark Bubriski said that state chairwoman Karen Thurman “took his opinion into account.”

The meeting will likely be held next week, after the party receives information from the DNC and the four early states regarding what precisely the candidates’ “pledge” not to “campaign or participate” in states that set their votes too early means.

Original:

Florida Democrats this morning have canceled Friday’s planned meeting on the Jan. 29 primary situation, which would have included discussions about setting caucuses so late in the process — possibly May — that the January primary would maintain its relative importance even though it would technically be non-binding.

Word is that U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson plans to announce some action challenging the Democratic National Committee’s sanctions against Florida today, and that the state party did not want to “get sideways” with the state’s top elected Democratic, said one insider.

No response yet from Nelson’s office.

Read more details about the Democratic primary situation here.

[cobalt1999]

27. Finally.

"He is filing a bill that would formalize a system of regional primaries for the 2012 presidential election."

This is what I was hoping to come out of this fight. The end of the selected "favored states" approach to primaries. Regional primaries make much more sense. If we get that, then I'm willing to let the FDP back down for this election cycle. If not, they need to keep fighting and fighting hard.

[madfloridian]

28. The end in this case does not justify how they chose to do it.

Nearly all of us want change.

They have blamed someone who does not deserve the blame, and they are withholding funds like a bully.

Bill Nelson may present a bill....but he has lost the respect of many who dislike his bully tactics.

The problem with the folks here who support the usual party tactics, is that they seem to think anything is ok.

I have moved beyond that, and I think Bill Nelson is a horse's ass .

So he is so important that he can attempt to destroy the DNC's fundraising and present a "formalized" bill?

Couldn't he have done that anyway? Without all the bullying?

[cobalt1999]

31. You have your opinion, I have a different one.

You see the FDP as bullying, I see the DNC as bullying. So I don't buy that.

As for Bill Nelson, you may think he is an ass for sticking up for the state, but you are in a small minority. Politically, he has already gained enormously from this.

As for "destroying fund raising", the DNC brought that on themselves. You can't disenfranchise a state, penalize candidates that come here and not expect your fund raising to take a hit from that same state. Duh! That's like jumping into a lake and being surprised you got wet.

The days of state primary order being decided in committee backrooms is ending, I see that as great news.

[mohc]

35. The way I see it

There are 3 decisions that we must make as a party.

1) What is the best primary system to use.
2) Who decides what that best system is.
3) What happens when the system is not adhered to.

Many seem to conflate the first 2, but to me they are separate issues. Just because a system is not the best one, or even fair at all, does not mean one can willfully violate it without consequences. You said it yourself "That's like jumping into a lake and being surprised you got wet.". Well the FDP jumped in the water when they moved the primary, and now they are wet. Regardless of what the answer is to the first decision, I firmly believe the second decision must be made nationally, not at the state level. That does not mean that states do not have a say in when their primaries are, but the national party is the only logical place for determining the guidelines which govern primary placement. If the national party chooses so, they could say states can pick any date they want, or all must be on the same date, or all but a few must be after a certain date, etc. What the FDP is doing is no different than if the DNC had set a national primary date, all the states were able to set their primary to that date, and then Florida move its primary a week ahead. You may disagree because that would be Florida getting an unfair advantage while in the current situation they are making it more "fair". But that is irrelevant, the rule that is in place is the rule that is in place. Violating the rule is just as wrong regardless of how unfair it may be. There are only 4 small states in a protected position right now, the DNC is made up of members from across the country, if those members did not want the 4 states having a protected position it would be very easy for them to change it. If this was just a round about way for the FDP to get the rule changed to one that is more fair, and never really intended to violate the DNC rules, then that is very disgraceful.

The last point may be the most contentious. Even if one agrees that the FDP is in the wrong, the DNC certainly has some leeway with how they deal with the situation. I would be more sympathetic to the FDP if they were no behaving like they are. After the DNC made it clear that they were in violation, the FDP was not asking what they could do, only stating that they were not willing to budge at all. I really do not see what choice they have, if the primary stands and must be counted, what would stop every state from just piling on a powerless DNC?

[cobalt1999]

24. After Dean's letter to the FDP to "call off the Florida congressmen"

This was to be expected. I was kind of surprised Dean escalated the dispute with that public callout. He pushed Nelson and the Florida congressmen into acting and now they are. They have the publics support and the FDP isn't going against the public.

[madfloridian]

25. WHO? did the escalating? What a skewed view some have.

They are trying to crash his fundraising. They are acting like bullies.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

26. Be serious

"They are trying to crash his fundraising."

OK, so it's Dean's money. I thought it was mine. By the way, regardless of what Florida officials are saying, I know plenty of people who said "I'm not donating till this is settled" the second the news hit that the votes wouldn't count for the primary. "They" are not crashing "his" fundraising. "He" did that just fine on his own.

"They are acting like bullies."

By saying we'd like to have our vote, please, or we're going to hold back our money? That's bullying?

Nobody looks good in this. The FL Leg should not have voted for the early primary (even though they had no real chance of stopping it). Knowing that it was unstoppable, Dean maybe could have found a different sanction (say, identical to the Republican one -- no restraint on candidates and half the delegates are seated -- or, since Dean is undeniably smarter, he could have found something better still). And Republicans are loving this.

Really, the only practical solution that doesn't lose us FL in 2008 is for Dean to back it up a bit, acknowledge that this would have happened no matter what with a Repub state government (Crist has just given Dean a perfect opening with his promise to veto legislation that would move the primary to Feb), and find a different sanction that proportionately fits the crime (you know, being "sarcastic" when introducing an amendment).

Don't throw the state away.

Or, work really really hard on that 49 state strategy (or wait, are we down to 48 now with Michigan on the shit list too? 47 and a half if the California electoral split happens?)

[cachukis]

37. DNC v DNC

I grew up in Mass. moved to NH in '67. Mass voted McGovern, NH Nixon in 72. Lot's of people moved to NH for tax reasons. The old guard in NH became furious at the interlopers. The Union Leader still rails.

I moved to FL in '79. Blue dog yet still dem, but converting to Reagan. FL, home of fruits, nuts, refugees and coconut trees caught up in that swell. Blue dogs don't want to lose rule. Repubs in disguise. They see the same influx bewitching NH of earlier decades and want to extinguish any progressive momentum.

Feel safe. According to a report I heard on NPR driving to school this AM, toddler infants win out over chimps on social matters.

There are a lot more progressive Floridians than you realize. They will still send money to the DNC and appropriate candidates. These old guards are out of their element and not ready. They are using old guard tactics.

They are not willing to vote for progressives anyway.

Furthermore, when things get really bad here, they'll move to Texas.

Remember, 2000 went Dem. Push the issue of building dikes around the state and who manages them better. Then you have a clear cut winner.

Maybe I should be in politics.

Cachukis

[cachukis]

38. Meant to say DNC v DLC

[cachukis]

39. Thought this might support my dikes comment.

Scientists fear ice caps melting faster than predicted


Paul Brown in Ilulissat
Friday September 7, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


The Greenland ice cap is melting so quickly that it is triggering earthquakes as pieces of ice several cubic kilometres in size break off.
Scientists monitoring events this summer say the acceleration could be catastrophic in terms of sea-level rise and make predictions this February by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change far too low.

The glacier at Ilulissat, which supposedly spawned the iceberg that sank the Titantic, is now flowing three times faster into the sea than it was 10 years ago.


Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Correll, chairman of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, said in Ilulissat today: "We have seen a massive acceleration of the speed with which these glaciers are moving into the sea. The ice is moving at two metres an hour on a front 5km <3 miles> long and 1,500 metres deep. That means that this one glacier puts enough fresh water into the sea in one year to provide drinking water for a city the size of London for a year."
Prof Correll is visiting Greenland as part of a symposium of religious, scientific, and political leaders to look at the problems of the island, which has an ice cap 3km thick containing enough water to raise worldwide sea levels by seven metres.

Today leaders of Christian, Shia, Sunni, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhist and Jewish religions took a boat to the tongue of the glacier for a silent prayer for the planet. They were invited by Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of 250 million Orthodox Christians worldwide.

Prof Correll, director of the global change programme at the Heinz Centre in Washington, said the estimates of sea level rise in the IPCC report were conservative and based on data two years old. The predicted rise this century was 20cm to 60cm, but it would be at the upper end of this range at least, he said, and some believed it could be two metres. This would be catastrophic for European coastlines.

He had flown over the Ilulissat glacier and "seen gigantic holes in it through which swirling masses of melt water were falling. I first looked at this glacier in the 1960s and there were no holes. These so-called moulins, 10 to 15 metres across, have opened up all over the place. There are hundreds of them."

He said ice-penetrating radar showed that this melt water was pouring through to the bottom of the glacier creating a lake 500 metres deep which was causing the glacier "to float on land. These melt-water rivers are lubricating the glacier, like applying oil to a surface and causing it to slide into the sea. It is causing a massive acceleration which could be catastrophic."

The glacier is now moving at 15km a year into the sea although in surges it moves even faster. He measured one surge at 5km in 90 minutes - an extraordinary event.

Veli Kallio, a Finnish scientist, said the quakes were triggered because ice had broken away after being fused to the rock for hundreds of years. The quakes were not vast - on a magnitude of 1 to 3 - but had never happened before in north-west Greenland and showed the potential for the entire ice sheet to collapse.

Prof Correll said: "These earthquakes are not dangerous in themselves but the fact that they are happening shows that events are happening far faster than we ever anticipated."

Cachukis

[Shipwack]

40. I just want to say "Thanks"

Thanks, MadFloridian, for keeping on top of all this... I wouldn't have been able to follow all the latest twists and turns of this without your informative posts.

[PassingFair]

41. Let me add a THANK YOU here.

There is a reason why MADFLORIDIAN'S journal
is ALWAYS in the top ten.

Informative and always keeps us abreast of
Dean's activities for the Progressive Democratic Party.

Also, I just want to say, anyone who thinks Bill Nelson
has Democrat's best interests at heart is an IDIOT.
If he hadn't had Katherine Harris as an opponent, it
would have been VERY difficult for any good-standing
democrat to vote for him.

One of our infamous "Nelson Twins":
http://irregularnews.com/senate/senNelsonFL.html

Thank you.
Thank you very much.

[madfloridian]

42. Let's not forget this attempt to hurt fundraising.

.