Alter: Dems are going to have--and deserve--real problems w/ base for not showing guts on Iraq

[Amerigo Vespucci]

http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Olbermann_Surge_debate_over_Bush_wins_0907.html

Video clip included at the Raw Story URL above.



Olbermann reminded viewers of events last fall, when Bush indicated he was taking the Baker-Hamilton Report seriously and considering all options, including the possibility of a drawdown. White House press secretary Tony Snow promised reporters, "Wait until you see the whole package, and then the debate will begin." But just days later, the surge was announced, effectively forestalling debate of any kind.

The same thing is happening now with the build-up to the Petraeus Report. "The administration is expected to cite a 75% decrease in sectarian attacks in Iraq," Olbermann stated. "That sounds great, does it not? But it appears to have been accomplished by severely tightening the definition of a sectarian attack." For example, mass bombings are no longer counted in the totals, only isolated murders.

Olbermann was joined by Newsweek editor and political analyst Jonathan Alter, who called the claim of a 75% reduction "the big lie" and "a joke" and said "they're cooking the books yet again."

"We're going to be sold a bill of goods in the next couple of weeks," Alter concluded. "The Democrats have been cowed by this minimal progress. ... They're going to have -- and deserve -- real problems with the Democratic base for not showing more guts on Iraq this fall. September was supposed to be the moment of truth. It's not going to work out that way."

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Hold it I have said this for a while

that they are about to loose their shirts

Oh what would I know? I'm just a citizen...

Shut up, nothing to see here

[leftchick]

3. this is what they will do....

<snip>

In a pre-emptive move of his own, the president went to Iraq to personally assess the war. This supposedly dramatic visit will, he seems to hope, deflate the already weak Democratic Congress when it gets the report. That the spineless Democrats can be any further weakened is unlikely; they will probably read the report, make a wide variety of statements decrying the continuing loss of U.S. and Iraqi life, express fury over the millions of people displaced by America's imperial war of choice, and then vote for whatever war funding Mr. Bush requests, all in the name of 'supporting the troops.' They will then, by some inexplicable logic, point to it all as a victory.


http://counterpunch.com/

[Amerigo Vespucci]

7. Ouch...

...especially the "they will probably read the report, make a wide variety of statements..." part.

Been there, seen that, don't want to see it again.

The thing that gripes me most about this is that none of what's being discussed by Olbermann...or by Counterpunch, in the excerpt you provided...has to happen.

Maybe all of the White House TVs are tuned to Fox News, but I've got to believe that someone close to Mr. Reid, Ms. Pelosi and the rest are tuned to Olbermann. These remarks aren't flying under their radar. They're flying right into their faces. They can prove these words to be false.

The question, of course, is "will they?"

I'm still going to remain "cautiously optimistic" and hope that our elected officials come back with more than statements. We shall see.

:patriot:

[leftchick]

11. Pelosi did not have one town meeting in her district in August!

not ONE!

http://counterpunch.com/terrall09052007.html

Given the Democratic Party leadership's tepid follow-through on opposing the Bush Administration and the Iraq War, peace activists CODEPINK have been pressuring Pelosi for months to meet publicly with her constituents about the war. Since her staffers consistently refused to cooperate, CODEPINK members camped and fasted outside Pelosi's San Francisco home for two weeks in August. The mock town meeting was a culmination of that campaigning, and featured a San Francisco resident, coincidentally also named Nancy, wearing a cut-out of Pelosi's face but tied to a chair to ensure that at least the Congresswoman's stand-in had to listen to critics.

CODEPINK co-founder Medea Benjamin opened the proceedings as office workers on their way home began filing out of the building. Benjamin explained to the forty or so assembled San Franciscans that the last time Pelosi had a town hall meeting was well over a year ago, and though "this is the time of year when many Congresspeople have meetings in home districts we couldn't get a meeting." Benjamin said, "while Nancy Pelosi didn't have time to meet with her constituents in August, we did our homework and found that she's gone to seven different states going from fundraiser to fundraiser, so she had plenty of time for that."


What does that tell you?

[Hydra]

4. I just want to know

since when is listening to your base "politically unsound"????

[Diane R]

5. Your title is misleading. Olbermann did NOT say that....Jonathan Alter did.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

8. True. Point taken. Now it's no longer misleading. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

9. thanks for the edit !!

[Faygo Kid]

6. Yep. And I am holding on to my money until something changes.

Had a couple of door to door Dem solicitors come by, and I told 'em no until the Dems show some leadership, instead of giving Bush every dime he wants and every troop level he asks for. They are getting worse, not better. I gave money in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, and I sure as hell haven't seen the results, as the only thing Bush hasn't gotten is the destruction of Social Security. I have had it, and that goes for the candidates. When things change, so will I. Until then, I'm not paying for this crappy performance by the Dems.

[LSK]

10. like 10 Republican Senators turning into Democrats???

:shrug:

[Faygo Kid]

12. The Dems have to do better.

I will vote for them, but I am not giving them money at this time. It's almost like the DLC is running the "anti-war" effort. Please feel free to give them every dime you want to, but after all these years and a solid background of contributing, I am holding off for now.

[LSK]

13. how?

[tom_paine]

20. Study the Bushies' impeachment of Clinton under trumped up charges

See if it teaches you anything about action plans for the purpose of impeaching for MULTIPLE FELONIES OPENLY PERFORMED.

:puke:

[tom_paine]

17. Why did the Bushies impeach Clinton without the votes to impeach

AND ON A TRUMPED-UP CHARGE IN WHICH MORE CRIMINALITY WAS PERFORMED BY THE BUSHIES IN SETTING THE PERJURY TRAP THAN CLINTON DID BY FALLING INTO IT?

Why then, in an almost entirely analouous situation, do the Democrats shrink from it, EVEN THOUGH THE CRIMES ARE DOZENS OF FELONIES WITH THE EVIDENCE LAYING ALL ABOUT?

I am SO TIRED of hearing that bullshit excuse. It is a Good German excuse, and I am having none of it!

Go back and ask yourself my first questions. If and when you answer them to your satisfaction, then you will be one step closer to understanding what we are facing and why these bullshit excuses simply do not hold water.

Think about it.

[Rydz777]

14. Kucinich will not be President but he'd make a great Speaker of the House. nt

[PuraVidaDreamin]

15. Finally... The press ( or precious few of) doing it's job

More tho' than before the MARCH INTO BAGHDAD

Still few too many

[tom_paine]

16. I would guess they have lost the financial backing, and more imporant, the work done

by at least a hundred thousand people (including me), maybe as many as a million, bytheir weakness, cowardice, and lack of principles in the face of the greatest danger of tyanny from within America in 230+ years.

Don't get me wrong, I am still going to vote for the Dems, as I am sure they know and I am also sure it drives the equation.

1,000,000 lost Peasants at $10 support a piece is fully equal to a $10,000,000 check from a CEO.

I can no longer soldier on for them under these conditions, knowing their contempt for me is nearly as great as the Bushies, with precious few exceptions.

And there are MANY out there coming to the same agonziing conclusion. Even if we ALL vote Democratic out of necessity, they will have lost something they are no longer able to quantify or even understand anymore, so thoroughly are their heads up the asses of Hannity, O'reilly, and the rest of the False Reality Bubble of Lying Bushies, which I now see was cnstructed as much or for the Elite and it was for the Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

Even as I know that ultimately what I am doing is somewhat self-defeating, the issue here is the brick wall of the dying man in the desert crawling, crawling...then a "friend" comes by.

Huzzah! We are SAVED. But no, then the "friend" unzips their fly and screams "Shut Up You Crazy Moonbat! Bill O'Reilly says you make me look bad!" then instead of a glass of water, contemptuously pisses down my throat and TELLS me it's raining.

How can I go on working for that? My money and time is better spent on , because history shows that once the upper government has been infiltrated and reduced to meaningless by Nazis of the past or Bushies of the present, then the REALLY BAD SHIT STARTS for Filthy Little Nobodies like us, who had previosuly been mostly left alone while the Bushies made sure we had no Constitutional, Legal, or Political solution.

[leftchick]

18. I am curious tom....

Given all of the damning issues you have just cited, why would you still vote for them? Wouldn't a write in vote for someone you believed in drive the message further home?

[tom_paine]

19. Because either we all hang together or we all hang seperately

See: German Left, 1930-34.

I can no longer work for them (unless, perhaps, Gore or Edwards is the nominee), but that doesn't mean I am going to follow down the failed path of the German Left in the 30s.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity. Is it an ideal situation? Hell NO, practically it's opposite, a no-win.

But it is what it is.

If Fred ThomBush gains the Imperial Throne, or ANY LOYAL BUSHIE for that matter, the Old American Republic is finished. FINISHED. All that's left is the meaty thud and the stink rising from the corpse.

Probably is already too late to stop it, but where there is still a glimmer of hope...

[leftchick]

21. I see the same thing happening

if hillary is in the WH. I consider her a neocon like any bushie.

[tom_paine]

22. This where we differ. I would not go that far.

And I will vote for Hillary if she is the Dem nominee.

She is by far the wrst of any of the Dem Candidates, I believe, in terms of actually defeated the parts of Bushevism THAT MATTER, though I am sure she will be happy to nibble at the egedes, for show you understand.

But even THAT is better than ThombBush holding the throne for Emperor Jeb.

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

Peace.