Clinton takes Social Security benefit cuts off the table; Obama puts them on.

[Karmadillo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118921605531521357.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Clinton Rules Out Cuts
In Social Security Benefit
By JACKIE CALMES

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton told an AARP convention that, as president, she would move quickly to fix Social Security's long-term finances, but that cutting benefits or raising the eligibility age would be "off the table." That would leave only higher payroll taxes as a solution.

The New York Democrat's comments, made in Boston on Friday, were a further effort to draw distinctions with her chief rival for her party's presidential nomination, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama. In May, Mr. Obama said that "everything should be on the table," including benefits and taxes. He did rule out, as did Mrs. Clinton, creating private accounts -- an idea that President Bush has proposed.

Entitlement benefits for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid loom as big issues for the 2008 campaign, because that is the first year when the huge population of post-World War II baby boomers will begin hitting retirement age. Although the outlook for the two health programs is more dire, Social Security has gotten more attention from political leaders, in part because potential solutions are less complex.

Under the current situation, Social Security would begin running deficits by the next decade, and would be technically insolvent by midcentury, though incoming payroll taxes would continue to cover about three-fourths of retiree benefits.

more...

[DaveJ]

1. If the economy crashes no SS solution will matter

The simple solution is raising the caps but given the fact that SS is not a retirement plan, so to speak, it's more important that politicians can see the broader picture of making sure fewer people will need to rely on it when they retire.

[Tellurian]

19. SS is a retirement plan..

People pay into it all their working lives and rely on it as a source of income when they retire from the workforce.

[BenDavid]

2. Obama is so naive in dealing with SS and he is going to

he is going to get slapped down again if he begins saying everything is on the table when it comes to SS..

[Clintonista2]

4. Obama is naive in general

[2rth2pwr]

3. Great, he puts cutting Social Security on the table

but not a word about Impeachment being on the table.

[YOY]

5. From either of them

n/t

[Mnemosyne]

6. on the table, off the table

Wish to hell impeachment was on their fucking tables.

I am aware that SS isn't supposed to be the only retirement income, but many older women never worked, and many of the younger women will never earn enough money to supplement the SS check. Try to save anything on slave wages. It's all many will have.

They need a two tiered system; less for those with plenty of income and more for those that have nothing else. You shouldn't have to live in destitution because they had no better opportunities.

I still bristle when I hear of millionaires collecting SS checks. I don't give a damn if they "paid into it for years", sometimes the right thing needs to be done totally unselfishly.

To each their need.

[WCGreen]

14. They should raise the cap and cap the benifits and tax benifits

just like a retirement plan...

What you put in should be returned tax free and you should pay tax on what you get over and above your contribution...

Simple, easy and would solve the problem once and for all...

[Mnemosyne]

15. I'm for whatever keeps little old ladies and the disabled

from a near starvation existence.

Anything else is unacceptable.

No one that makes it to old age should ever have to choose between health and warmth. Never.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. wrong. Clinton outright lied about that.

[Tellurian]

20. Provide links when you call someone a liar..

thats the least you can do. eh..

[AZBlue]

47. If that's true, back it up. Where's the link?

Otherwise your post should really be deleted.

[DURHAM D]

8. Barak Obama is the last person in the

world I expect to understand/protect seniors. He flat out doesn't like 'em and is pushing a generational war. Fuck him.

[durrrty libby]

12. Why even bother discussing BO at all. He looks just about dead in the water

Take a gander at these adorable polls

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries%2C_2008

[Alamom]

16. Thank you. Very nice. Do you know how often this site is updated?

I could have missed it....it's early, but I do love seeing that much information in one place.

[durrrty libby]

21. Duer Aya Reiko puts a great thread together every week or so

Here's the latest in case you missed it


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3504050

[Alamom]

32. I watch for them. Thanks to Aya Reiko for posting these. They are great & Thank you.nm

[Tellurian]

17. Magnificent Graphics..

Based On Winner Take All



Based on applying the Democratic National Convention's 15% threshold rule
First six states (Iowa, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Florida)



Through Super Tuesday



All Data

[Alamom]

33. Beautiful. Thank you. nm

[Yukari Yakumo]

43. My map is a little more up to date.

[Sapphire Blue]

9. Why doesn't he just put sending us to the ovens on the table?

The cost of living is increasing phenomenally, and he's considering cuts to the incomes of poor, elderly & disabled people. God in heaven, help us! We've had enough of a president who caters to the haves & have mores. No more. No way.

[Tellurian]

18. Hillary and her supporters will never allow Obama to even get close..

enough to get a whiff of the presidency. With the exception of Obama's rabid supporters at DU, the rest of the country is with US..

[AtomicKitten]

41. Keep dreaming. (nt)

[illinoisprogressive]

10. Clinton falsley accused Obama while pandering - follow the link

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0907/Retirement_age_politics.html

[LSK]

11. John Edwards supports raising the FICA tax limit

I just saw him say this on CSPAN. It was a road to the White House thing from 9/2/07.

I believe this is the obvious solution to preserving and strengthing social security.

Currently if you make more than (I think its $97k), anything you make beyond that is not FICA taxed.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Is this the "bashing" of candidates that so many at DU deplore

day after day?

Looks like it. The negative slam provided on Obama's Social Security Stance is soooo thin, it would wear out in about 2 seconds of sun.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/05/obama_and_social_security.php

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/05/obama_brushes_a.html

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama_SenateMatch.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Barack_Obama_Social_Security.htm

http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2004/12/social-security-obama-and-ford.html

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/050426-_a_hope_to_fulfill/index.php

[MethuenProgressive]

22. He says "everythings on the table" when he means "I don't know"

Another distiction between the veteren and the novice.

[eallen]

23. Yep. The veteran says it's not, then does it anyway.

Right?

I'll bet even money now, that whatever compromise is eventually worked with regard to social security -- and it will be a compromise -- will involve some degree of benefit cuts, either directly, or by some adjustment to the age scale, or by some tie to income. Hillary knows that. And she won't stop it. But she's happy to lie about that now. As veteran politicians do. That difference may indeed turn elections. It just puzzles me that people think it is good when it does so.

:hippie:

[wyldwolf]

24. what? Now how would you know that?

[Alamom]

31. HRC says; NO raising retirement age and NO cutting benefits. A definite absolute.

No on/off the table....no ifs, ands or buts. Covered by many news outlets. NO cuts. NO raising ret. age. She also knows how to do it without affecting lower income people.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clinton8sep08,1,1330631.story?ctrack=5&cset=true




Clinton rejects raising age for Social Security benefits

By Peter Nicholas, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 8, 2007

WASHINGTON -- -- Drawing a distinction with her main rival in the Democratic presidential race, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that the nation should not raise the eligibility age for collecting Social Security retirement benefits.

The New York lawmaker used a speech to the AARP at its annual lifestyle expo in Boston to underscore her differences with Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) over the best way to shore up the Social Security system.


"Everything should be on the table," Obama told ABC News' George Stephanopoulos in that interview.

In her speech, Clinton took the position that certain solutions should be off-limits.

"I'll tell you, putting everything on the table is not the answer," she said. "Raising the retirement age is not the answer. Cutting benefits is not the answer."


>

A spokesman for the Clinton campaign, when asked how Clinton would keep benefits intact, said she would restore budget surpluses necessary to prolong the system's solvency.

Savings can be achieved by cutting the number of federal contractors and repealing Bush's tax cuts for people earning more than $250,000 a year, among other steps, her spokesman said.

[cutlassmama]

42. I just changed my vote back to her then. I'm on SSDI and

cannot afford to live on my pittance as it is. Cutting benefits??? I'd be living on cat/dog food.

[eallen]

44. No one is going to change benefits for those currently drawing.

Not even Dubya was willing to do that.

But I suspect that there will be some small shifting of the age-benefit curve for those of us who are still quite a few years from drawing benefits. That's not entirely unreasonable, as people live longer lives.

:hippie:

[cutlassmama]

52. oh thank God

[flpoljunkie]

25. POLITICO UPDATE: "Obama doesn't want to cut benefits and doesn't want to raise retirement age."

UPDATE: Obama spokesman Bill Burton sends over a statement: "Barack Obama doesn't want to cut benefits and doesn't want to raise the retirement age. He views Social Security as a sacred compact with our workers and seniors. So rather than using it as a political wedge for the purposes of a campaign, President Obama will work with Democrats and Republicans to ensure Social Security is solvent and viable for the American people, now and in the future."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0907/Retirement_age_politics.html

[PATRICK]

26. Believe Obama or Murdoch's WSJ editorial?

That is supposed to be the rhetorical question one needn't even ask. The editorial is the usual light cherry-picking attempt to sling a stray set of words around someone's neck. The trouble is that it is so seriously taken as a base to CONDEMN Obama automatically in a DU discussion.

In the future, please skip the damned WSJ, go back to the full May statement- only- and ask for clarification. We behave like a bunch of rubes who will jump at any poisoned meat the MSM deigns to drop
merely because it fits into our primary intramural spats.

[wyldwolf]

28. Another "cover my gaffe" moment from BO!

[creeksneakers2]

27. There is no problem with social security

Social Security will be solvent for decades. What we have is a debt problem. With all the debt rung up since Ronald Reagan (and mostly under Republicans)paying back the money owed to social security is going to be an additional burden. The obvious solution to to pay back the other debts. No candidate wants to propose that though.

Pretending that the debt problem is a social security problem reinforces the incorrect notion that SS is at fault. Pretending plays into the hands of Republicans and the people who want to cut SS.

Social Security needs to loan money to the government now so that it will be solvent in the future.

[Justitia]

37. Thank you. Too many fall for the RW spin on Soc Sec. Ask an actuary. -eom

[slipslidingaway]

39. Agree, it is a debt problem. The federal government owes the

SS Trust 2 Trillion dollars, when spending money on the war and for other reasons who made it clear they were spending some of the SS Trust money.

When spending the money no mention of SS, when it needs to be repaid it is a SS problem???

[Greyhound]

46. Must not say that, too many Democratic politicians were in on the looting.

If you go around reminding people that both ours and their's have been stealing from us for decades, that could be quite uncomfortable.

[creeksneakers2]

48. Nothing was stolen

It was borrowed to be paid back with interest. If at a point later somebody decides not to pay back the money, then its stolen.

[Greyhound]

49. LOL!

Yah sure, the check is in the mail...

and my dog ate my home work...

and of course I'll call you...

[creeksneakers2]

50. The one who is naive is the one who is fooled by propaganda

Show me where Democrats stole money. You can't do it. That lie is circulated by the people who want to get rid of Social Security.

[Greyhound]

53. Just Google the federal budgets since 1982 and then see who controlled

the Congress' during those years. You will find out both where the money went and who sent it.

It was the thoroughly corrupt and utterly unresponsive Democratic Congress' that made it possible for a bad actor to be elected by trashing their own President mercilessly for years in order to keep their power intact. It was a Democratically controlled Congress that gave the cons their tax cuts and slashed social services. It was a Democratically controlled Congress that went along with "trickle down" economics (a theory known to be BS since before we were even a country, a nightmare that Adam Smith himself warned of) and allowed them to devastate the middle-class and labor.

As for the stolen money and SS itself, there is a slight chance that the monies might be repaid, someday, but it will be replaced with utterly worthless devalued monopoly money and fictitious interest. But even with all that we could head off any future shortfalls by simply removing the cap, followed by implementing Gore's "lock-box" plan.

[creeksneakers2]

55. If we remove the cap

then we'll have an even bigger surplus for Social Security to lend to the government. You say that money will probably never be paid back and if it is it will be with monopoly money. Why raise the cap then? What good will it do?

I don't see what budgets prove. SS ran a surplus all those years. The money was lent to the government. The SS has a website with audit of everything. Nothing was stolen.

[Greyhound]

56. Seperate issues. The projected insolvency in 2040 or thereabout can be

eliminated by removing the cap.

As for the money that had been "borrowed", the only way to pay back that much money is to keep devaluing our currency to the point it is worthless.

SS is not the problem, what our "leaders" have done with it is the problem and like all of our other problems, the root cause is a populace that doesn't know and doesn't want to know. No Democracy (or representative republic) can sustain itself without its citizens active participation.

[hertopos]

29. SS tax is the most regressive of all tax!!

There is a very easy way to gain more revenue for SS.
Does everyone know that only up to 95k is taxable?
You don't have to raise payroll tax rate. You just need to get rid of exemption above 95k. You can generate a huge tax increase without touching a typical middle class family.

I think Hillary is very aware of this and that's why she is promising that.
I don't agree with Hillary with many things but my vote goes to her since she is the most competent candidate all combined.

My first choice is Gore since Climate change is the most important issue for next 50 years. ( We may lose the world as we know of if we fail.)

I am also very disappointed by Oprah. I don't mind she endorse whoever she likes. However, she is exploiting her celebrity status to make fund-raising into Hollywood event. That's a huge turn off.

Hertopos

[midlife_mo_Jo]

36. She's exploiting her celebrity status?

Isn't that what "celebrities" do when they endorse a candidate or favorite cause (PETA, for example)?

She's doing what she "can," for "her" candidate. What a novel concept. :sarcasm:

[OHdem10]

30. Thank you Hilary---Ttis is the "real Democratic Posistion"

Now, I ask any and all of our Candidates to commit to using
Larry Sommers as an economic or financeial advisor. While
Bob Rubin was one of the best Treasury Secretaries ever, in
policy matters he leans a little Rockefeller Republican.
After watching Summers, in Cong.Hearings, and on C. Rose,
Sommers has some wise and "real Democratic advice."

I say this because I believe we are going to face some
seriously turbulent years in our economy.

SS and other Safety Net Programs will be more essential than
ever.

[Roland99]

34. Cuts must occur

Google Concord Coalition

[antigop]

35. And what was the ACTUAL QUOTE????

The article says:
>>
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton told an AARP convention that, as president, she would move quickly to fix Social Security's long-term finances, but that cutting benefits or raising the eligibility age would be "off the table."
>>

The only words in quotes are "off the table".

What was the real quote?

Inquiring minds want to know:
cutting benefits "off the table" FOR WHOM???? Those already retired and collecting? Those who haven't retired? WHO??????

[Alamom]

38. LA Times has more in quotes, here >>>>>

In her speech, Clinton took the position that certain solutions should be off-limits.

"I'll tell you, putting everything on the table is not the answer," she said. "Raising the retirement age is not the answer. Cutting benefits is not the answer."



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clinton8sep08,1,1330631.story?ctrack=5&cset=true

[antigop]

40. "Cutting benefits is not the answer"... FOR WHOM? It doesn't say.

Cutting benefits is not the answer for people already retired?

Those not retired but close to it?

Those who are far away from retirement?

WHO????

weasel words from Hillary -- that's all they are.

[Capn Sunshine]

45. More disingenuous crap

No quotes from Obama, just an implication that once upon a time he said "everything should be on the table" Hillary said that once too.

Besides, if we can afford 12 billion a month for War Profiteers, we can fix Social Security easily.

[zulchzulu]

51. Clinton looks at reality and decides to pander... nothing new...

Nowhere is it stated that Obama would make cuts to social security, as is "surmised" by the OP. It's blather at its finest.

What is actually a taste of what we are witnessing is from this SF Examiner editorial:

In Sen. Clinton’s world, Social Security is going to go right on just as it is. Even allowing for the expected rhetorical excesses of a candidate seeking support from the nation’s largest liberal lobby, Clinton’s promise not to act — in effect, to be irresponsible — defies reason.
People who read this also read:

Sen. Clinton, meet Reality, as described by the 2007 Social Security Trustees Report, which noted in April that: “Social Security spending will exceed projected tax collections in 2017. These deficits will quickly balloon to alarming proportions. After adjusting for inflation, annual deficits will reach $67.8 billion in 2020, $266.5 billion in 2030, and $330.9 billion in 2035.”

http://www.examiner.com/a-919084~Hillary_s_fecklessness_on_Social_Security.html?cid=all-hp-featured_editorial

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html

[JCMach1]

54. MEANS TEST

Do the rich need it...?