Conservatives are really upset at Giuliani for saying illegal immigration is not a crime

[antiimperialist]

Giuliani said in an interview with Glenn Beck that not only is illegal immigration not a crime, but it shouldn't be.
Regardless of what needs to be done with illegal immigrants, I think Rudy made a false statement, since entering the country illegaly, as the name implies, is a crime.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070908/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani_immigration

[KurtNYC]

1. At the risk of seeming to agree with Rudy, there is no specific

crime called "illegal immigration" It is an umbrella term which shifts the focus off of the Americans who employ people without proper documentation and without paying taxes.

[cmd]

4. We must keep the focus on the employers

The only way we will limit illegal immigration is to take away the incentive. Go after the employers.

[Doctor_J]

2. My daughter has a few ultra-con (fundy) friends who WILL NOT vote for Rudy

between his pro-choice and pro-immigrant views and his serial adultery, the true Christians don't care for him

[antiimperialist]

3. don't forget that he married his second-cousin

Which doesn't bother me, but bothers fundies.

[KurtNYC]

10. I think I know what you mean but I would take issue with calling

ultra-cons "the true Christians". Most of their pro-war, worship-the-rich-hate-the-poor-i'm-going-heaven-and-you're-not attitude seems very un-Christian to me.

[jobycom]

5. I don't suppose any of them bothered to understand what he actually said

"I was U.S. attorney in the Southern district of New York," he said. "So believe me, I know this. In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it's not a criminal proceeding. It's a civil proceeding."

Illegal immigration shouldn't be a crime, either, Giuliani said: "No, it shouldn't be because the government wouldn't be able to prosecute it. We couldn't prosecute 12 million people. We have only 2 million people in jail right now for all the crimes that are committed in the country, 2.5 million."

He added: "My solution is close the border to illegal immigration."

--------------------

Republicans aren't known for technical specificity involving the law. If they don't like something, it's illegal or it ought to be.

[bluerum]

9. Thanks for contextual quote.

[Ian David]

6. It's not a crime, it's a civil infraction. n/t

[treestar]

7. There is case law stating it is not a crime

The law is based on precedent, not emotions.

Crimes are defined by having criminal penalties: fines, imprisonment, death. They are brought by the state and have to be proved by a reasonable doubt.

Torts are defined by having consequences of a money judgment or an injunction against you. They are brought by the aggrieved individual, the plaintiff and have to be proved by a prepoderance of the evidence.

The Supreme Court analyzed a violation of the immigration laws as resulting in deportation and decided that deportation was a civil penalty, not a criminal one.

It is thus more akin to breaching a contract than a crime.

The word "illegal" is simply used in this context, and "illegal" can refer to civil violations. It is a general term.

People are never illegal in and of themselves, so the proper term is "undocumented immigrants."

The immigration law is also quite forgiving in some areas. There are provisions to legalize people who have violated the laws, even without "amnesty."

[no_hypocrisy]

8. The "real" reason they're upset: Rudy should've said "Illegal immigration is not a crime,

but it SHOULD BE!"