Picking the nominee at DU: Has it always been like this?

[PresidentObama]

I registered after the 2004 election, actually right after, and missed the whole nominating process last time on DU. Was it this bad? I mean sometimes I can't come onto the board without seeing anti-Hillary, anti-Obama, and anti-Edwards threads.

What's bad is I see MORE negative bullshit thrown around about our candidates than I do Republican candidates. Doesn't this strike anyone else as wrong? I see candidate supporters turning undecided voters off by saying they're candidate is the "only and best candidate" and they have the only "anti-war" candidate...everyone else is lying. It's stuff like this that makes DU really unbearable at times, and makes me wish we'd stick to nominating the best candidate without attacking one another and instead attack those damn slimy Republicans!!

SO, back to the question. Was DU like this during this time in 2003? And in 2004? Or worse?

[annabanana]

1. The joint gets jumpy alright!

(Comes of passionate people with a vision)

[Bunny]

2. 2004 was as ugly as it gets.

Fasten your seat belt.

[Maddy McCall]

3. Worse.

And it'll get worse here, the closer we get to primaries.

In 2003/04, we had a forum for nothing but the primaries, so everything was contained there. Now it's kinda spread all over DU.

[Honeycombe8]

4. I think it's BETTER this time around. Last time...phew! The animosity

surrounding Dean, especially (both for and against him) was thick thick thick! His supporters were called Deaniacs by non-supporters, and Dean supporters would call other candidates' supporters names. It was a madhouse.

But despite all that, this is still one of the most informative forums out there, and one of the ones to have the most informed posters. That's why I lurk a lot, and post a little occasionally. This is the place to get the latest info and the best discussions on relevant topics, IMO.:yourock:

[Gman]

20. I got some posts deleted for calling Dean supporters "Deanie Boppers"

they didn't like that term.

[Clintonista2]

22. Deanie Babies

I used to hate it when people used that term, but now that I think about it, it is kind of clever :D

[karynnj]

25. I always though Deaniac was a term the Dean people coined

as the people I saw using it supported him.

[Honeycombe8]

26. Maybe so. I thought I remembered people getting in trouble for "Deaniacs" term.

I think I had even referred to Dean supporters that way, thinking that was a term they coined themselves. But there was a complaint later. But whatever the specifics, there was hostility all around!

[karynnj]

29. Former (and current) Dean supporters, can you give input on this?

I have also used the term and thought it cute and positive - like kerrycrat. If it offends anyone, I'll never use it again.

[supernova]

5. It became worse

This is only the time of the ice berg, and we have a year to go yet. :P I would have hated being a mod then.

And it mostly feel along a Green/Dean/DLC axis as to where the wars raged.

But that's DU, it's a place to debate and possibly meet others with whom you can be friends too.

So, when you get too tired to argue, come hang out in the Lounge or visit the groups. :-) Or take a DU break.

[polichick]

6. It's kinda sobering to remember that relatively few...

...will actually have a vote in choosing our nominee ~ only those in the early primary states.

[liberal N proud]

7. Just hang on to your shorts

This will get ugly and it will get mean but in the end we all come together

[LWolf]

27. I don't think it's going to happen like that.

The "coming together" part.

How dysfunctional is it to see "ugly and mean" as a legitimate part of a campaign that everyone "ignores" when it's over? It's kind of like the wife who is beaten by her husband, but won't leave him, and defends him if anyone steps into help.

I think the message has been sent loud and clear, for anyone who is listening: Democrats aren't unified, and there are many, myself among them, who will simply not have another bad candidate shoved down my throat and then get in line and vote obediently.

My last "get in line" vote was for Kerry in '04. I said so then, and I meant it. I still mean it. I said so, for several months in my sigline at DU, before anyone even declared for the primaries. I said so for the first 6 months of this year. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A DAMNED DLC/CORPORATE CANDIDATE. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE WHO DOES NOT REPRESENT ME ON THE ISSUES. IF YOU CHOOSE TO NOMINATE A CANDIDATE THAT I CANNOT, IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, ACTUALLY SUPPORT, I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HER/HIM IN THE GENERAL.

I'm sure there are a few who will be bullied back into line. I won't be. If the nominee is someone I don't want to see as president, that nominee won't get my vote. Period.

I will also not be the damned Democratic Party scapegoat for making a bad choice. The voters can be accountable for their choice, and if they choose a candidate that loses a chunk of votes, THAT WAS THEIR CHOICE.

Ruggerson tells me today that it's ok, Dems can win without me. :D I've bookmarked that thread for the inevitable ugliness that happens when a D doesn't win, should that happen.

For me, if Democrats once more nominate a center-right, corporate candidate, this will have been my last primary. You guys can win without me, and you'll have to.

[Gman]

28. Oh, we will come together...

those of us that are Democrats, that is. There will be the usual bunch that are disruptors and never had any intention of voting for a Democrat that won't come with us. But by and large, DU will come together around one nominee. Nationally, the party will come together. Also keep in mind that neither DU nor the rest of the "netroots" are in the least representative of the entire Democratic Party.

[LWolf]

30. "Those of us that are Democrats, that is."

That's not exactly what I would call inclusive, lol.

Basically, you've just said that anybody who doesn't "come together," aka "shut up, get in line, and vote the way you're told," aren't "real" Democrats.

Good to know that our registration, donations, and work on the local level doesn't qualify us for membership in the "real" group. :eyes:

That's ok. You, and others like you, have been slowly convincing me that I don't really want to BE a Democrat. If being a Democrat means putting party before issues, means valuing "winning" more than what is done when the "winner" is in office, then I sure as hell don't belong.

I've got until August 28, 2008 to make that decision. I'll be the one to make it, though. Nobody else, including you, will decide if I am a "real" Democrat or not.

[Gman]

35. Don't let the door hit you in the ass

that is, if you ever came in.

[LWolf]

39. NOBODY ELSE, INCLUDING YOU, GETS TO DECIDE IF

I COME OR GO, OR IF I AM A "REAL" DEMOCRAT OR NOT.

[jobycom]

8. Oh, Hell yeah! This is child's play, so far. You should have seen the way they treated Gore.

After Gore lost but was still considered a candidate for 04, he was bashed unmercifully. Worse than Hillary Clinton, easily. He was a DLC sell-out, he was evil incarnate, it would be better to have four years of Bush than four of Gore.

The day Gore dropped out, the same DUers who had been bashing him--and I do mean the exact same individuals--began crying to the Heavens about how the evil DLC had betrayed our martyr Gore, how the evil DLC had brought down our brightest shining star.

You watch--if Hillary drops out, she'll suddenly become the Messiah, just like Gore.

Liberals hate winners. Start a thread on worst movies ever, and it will read like the Oscars and the list of best selling films ever. Ask them their favorite movies, and you probably will have never heard of half of them. You remember how when you were in third grade the teacher would ask who had trouble with the hardest problem, and half the class would raise their hand, and some little arrogant brat would say "That was the EASIEST question!" because someone had explained it to him? That's a liberal! We feel like when we've understood why Fitzgerald was great, then anyone who reads Stephen King is an idiot (even if we read Stephen King until someone finally explained Gatsby to us).

So whoever is leading in the polls must be Stephen King, and whoever is trailing just might be Fitzgerald, and if Fitzgerald suddenly began appealing to the masses he'd immediately become Stephen King.

It's not even warmed up yet. Wait until January.

The good news is that once the primaries are over, the Democratic candidate will be the least popular, so we'll all rally around her, no matter who she is. :)

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. You've got some weird ideas about liberals, Joby.

Where's that come from?

[jobycom]

16. Comes from careful and long-term observation. nt

[Kahuna]

17. He always comes up with unique ways of bashing Democrats...

He's is one of two posters I can recall in all these years who posts unkindly about Al Gore on a consistent basis.

[Fridays Child]

9. DU has been around for three election cycles and only one of those was a presidential election.

So it's hard to say. But the tone of this place has gotten nastier, in general, over the better part of the last year

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. The thing is, we can all agree how wrong the Repub candidates

are.

What needs to be pointed out is how opposing Dem candidates are evil incarnate. It's not always obvious to their supporters.

[sandnsea]

11. It's only at half steam

2003 was so much worse.

And then when candidates start dropping out, oh owweeee, it is like a feeding frenzy and sad to say there is some gloating, along with all sorts of approaches to try to "woo" the supporters to one candidate or another.

It's been relatively civil around here so far, in comparison.

[JDPriestly]

13. We love our country and want the best president.

We can't do anything about the Republicans' choice of nominee, but are responsible for helping to choose the Democratic one. This is part of the Democratic process. Has been since the beginning of our country. Since Adams and Jefferson anyway. It's a healthy process. I learn a lot from the repartee.

[Cha]

14. Imo, it was much worse but

maybe I'm inured now. This is nothing, again, imo..course it's only freakin' 2007.

[demommom]

15. I just registered a few months ago(6)

and I think it isn't as bad right now as it was then. Once in a while someone gets really over the top. I expect folks to say their candidate is the best,but I don't go in for bashing. I have come in contact with some very nice and friendly people lately on here,even though they are for a different candidate than I.

[Lindsey]

18. I think that this is the time to discuss on DU why we think the candidate of

our preference is so and why we aren't on board with some of the others. The frustrating part is that people can get so nasty. There's really just no reason for that. Yes, I thnik we can and should be passionate in our dialogue- that's great. However, we don't have to get personal and that's what seems to happen too often.

[Gman]

19. Nah, this is nothing compared to 04!

There were roving gangs with their avatars as their gang colors. Drive by's, the whole bit. People were given "time outs" for 24 hours from posting. (I got a couple). It was great!

[knight_of_the_star]

32. Yep, I remember that!

I don't think there was anyone on DU who wasn't flying the colors of their candidate. It was like a 9 way free-for-all war here and nukes were definitely on the table and being tossed around like firecrackers.

[dweller]

21. like what?

i vote my conscience. i go to bed knowing i've done what i can do to make a better world, sleep soundly.

plus being a stolid Kucinich supporter, my skin has gotten fairly thickened concerning candidates. So, rather than bother with tearing down, work on building up.

focus, not fracas.
dp

[Catherine Vincent]

23. It was bad back then.

But not as bad since a Clinton is in the mix.

[paulk]

24. it was worse - but, hey! there's still time!

no, really - I think a lot of the people still here who went through it are being ... nicer this time around. Also, a lot of the biggest jerks from last time got Tombstoned or went off to form their own website.

[knight_of_the_star]

31. It was this bad and then some

You can really tell the difference on here between the people who signed up before the '04 Primary Season and after by their reactions to this one. The ones who were there for the previous one are more taking it into stride cause it was at least this bad, if not moreso, as opposed to this time around.

[PresidentObama]

33. Your theory may be true....

I know I wasn't here last time, and I'm shocked by the amount of Democrats attacking one another and not those damn Republicans.

[CK_John]

34. No worse than the last six weeks of the Kerry forum. n/t

[wyldwolf]

36. DU has never picked our nominee

in 2004, the most popular DU candidate finished, what, third? Fourth? Great track record here.

[wyldwolf]

37. The most bizarre thing of 2003-2004...

were the odd "6 degrees of separation" research the anti-Clark people did. (You can still see a lot of it on another "progressive" board that shall not be mentioned.)

It usually went like this:

Clark consulted for a company that had the first cousin of Henry Kissinger on the board of directors 10 years prior, which means Wes Clark is a neocon and was in cahoots with Nixon and the gang."

Yeah. Seriously.

[Kelly Rupert]

38. 2003/2004 was way, way worse. n/t

[JNelson6563]

40. Not so much in GD or LBN

Sadly some of the shit now flowing down the ol' DU river is some of the same which flowed through in 03-04. Thankfully, those poor, poor souls are few in number.

As to the other monkies-flinging-shit sort of activities, some are worse than others but it all sucks.

I do appreciate the positive "here's why I support {name}" threads. Well, at least the OPs are good but you can bet real money some shit flinging monkey will show up and....well you know.

So yeah, it was like this last time. At least it will change soon. Once a nominee is chosen DUers will not be allowed to attack the candidate. Not even in not-so-clever-as-they-like-to-think disguises like "questions" about a candidate they are famous for hating, phrased in such a way as to totally trash said candidate. Shit like that. Game over. This is a wonderful time as those who really have no productive purpose tend to fall away, get tombstoned or go back to whatever rock they crawled out from under.

Julie