Candidates other than Hillary snubbing AARP? Bull! Do NOT fall for the disinformation!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

There was a recent posting clearly implying that most of the major Democratic candidates (other than Hillary Clinton) have decided to snub the AARP and disregard the importance of this organization. This is blatant disinformation!

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2007/08/28//news/elections/doc46d3b37ee1baf181711602.txt

Other major Dems clearly *are* participating in major events sponsored by the AARP. One of the other Hillary boosters tried to make the lame argument that the AARP forum "just doesn't count as much" as the convention-- which is total bull. The candidates obviously cannot attend every single major event sponsored by AARP and other organizations, they will attend various events on different dates. Hillary may be with the AARP on one day, she'll be with other organizations the next day. Likewise, Edwards, Richardson and the other Dems will not address the AARP on one day-- but will address the organization on others. It's an insult to the AARP only if the other candidates blow off the AARP in general, which they're not. The attendance or lack thereof of the candidates for this particular event (versus other major events) is a total non-issue, falsely claimed to be an insult against the AARP in a Swift Boat-style manner.

The claim of a snub against the AARP and its members by the other Democrats (other than Hillary) is thus patently false and a classic example of misrepresentation-- the point is that they *are* attending major events held by the AARP, with large audiences and the membership of the AARP, and specifically addressing retirees in general and the AARP members in particular, confronting crucial issues such as Social Security and Medicare.

I myself have not made up my mind about which Democrat to support-- as much as I've been angered by many of her policies, I've still even been considering support for Hillary. But it's blatant insults to our intelligence like this, fabrications and misrepresentations-- as much as any particular policy-- that are angering so many Democrats and turning them off from voting for Hillary at all, at every step. Whenever supporters who push these kinds of misleading (and easy-to-debunk) representations and attacks on the other candidates, are only doing her campaign even more damage.

Whomever we and other Dems decide to support in the primaries, we're not just going to let a piece of blatant disinformation like this go unchallenged. It's unconscionable and goes against our most basic principles!

[Clintonista2]

1. But WAIT! I thought the other candidates didn't show up because the AARP is in bed with bush?

That's what Obama/Edwards supporters are claiming in the other thread.

[saracat]

3. Uh ! Uh! That was me and I said I did not know why but I thought it might be that AARP

was in bed with Bush and they "are" in bed with Bush. I was speculating as to "why" candidates did not show in response to the misrepresentation of the Hillary supporter.AARP endorsed Bush's stupid drug plan and did all those commercials supporting it and the drug companies it benefits.Many seniors dumped AARP as a result.But It is good to know the other candidates are not shying away from speaking to AARP anyway!

[liberaldemocrat7]

29. AARP should get snubbed for helping pass the junk Medicare Part D meager benefit to the middle class

See my signature to repeal Medicare Part D and put the benefit in part B and enact HR 676 single payer universal health care. Make a darn toll free phone call.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

37. Again, maybe this is so, it's just the original misrepresentation of the

other Dems was false and misleading.

[bluestateguy]

2. The AARP should be snubbed

That stupid Medicare Drug bill became law because of the AARP's support in 2003 (as well as some cheating in the House roll call vote).

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

36. Again, a lot of people probably agree with you, it's just that

the poster of the original thread was attempting to foster a false premise. That's the thing that I was correcting.

[jobycom]

4. The other thread only said Clinton was the only candidate at the convention

you added the emotional stuff to make your straw man more shiny.

[snowbear]

5. Yeppers... and it was created by her biggest supporter here!

...

[jobycom]

6. Doesn't change the fact that it was accurate and did NOT say what the OP said it says. nt

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

16. Yes it does, jobycom

That thread clearly attacked the other Dems for neglecting seniors issues and snubbing the AARP:
"Where are they (the other major Dems) when it comes to senior issues? Where are they when it comes to making their case to seniors? "

Does this honestly sound like a mere "factual statement" to you? It's a clear implication by the poster that the other Dems don't care about this issue and are neglecting the AARP, which they're not-- it's Swift Boat style misrepresentation.

For example, someone else could point a finger at Hillary for failing to attend a UNCF convention in, say, December, then draw the same BS conclusion-- "Hillary doesn't care about the concerns about African-Americans"-- when Hillary might be addressing the UNCF on another day, for example.

It's plainly obvious that this is a straw man, i.e. it's a statement about something that is superficially true but utterly irrelevant, so as to draw an entirely misleading conclusion. The conclusion here, explicitly stated, is that Edwards and others don't care about seniors and the importance of the AARP, and that's entirely false.

[Tellurian]

19. No misleading conclusion..Obama has no use for BOOMERS..He said "get over yourselves..."

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

22. More out-of-context rubbish

So when Hillary made that infamous statement about how young people essentially are "too lazy" these days and "aren't willing to put enough effort into training to get a well-paying job"-- we're supposed to interpret that as Hillary flipping the bird at American youth? I was very annoyed at attempts to misportray that statement since it was taken out of context. You are doing the same with Obama. (And besides, I'm not an Obama supporter, I'm undecided but I came on to attack a blatant misrepresentation.)

[Tellurian]

23. Link or slink..

I want you to show me where she said that...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

39. Excuse me..

It's really cowardly of you to play the racist card to garner some kind of misplaced sympathy for the topic of discussion. The article, in it's entirety is a NYT publication. Rather you should speak to the issue it points out. The discriminatory nature embedded in the key elements of Obama's campaign.

[Tellurian]

24. You must have missed the reason Obama doesn't care about BOOMERS...

Or the AARP

Shushing the Baby Boomers




"THE time has come, Senator Barack Obama says, for the baby boomers to get over themselves."

In taking the first steps toward a presidential candidacy last week, Mr. Obama, who was born in 1961 and considers himself a member of the post-boomer generation, said Americans hungered for “a different kind of politics,” one that moved beyond the tired ideological battles of the 1960s.

To make his point, Mr. Obama, a Democrat from Illinois in his first term in the Senate, announced the formation of his presidential exploratory committee in a video streamed on his Web site. He is tieless and relaxed and oh so cool.

Mr. Obama calculates that Americans of all ages are sick of the feuding boomers and ready to turn to the generation that came of age after Vietnam, after the campus culture wars between freaks and straights, and after young people had given up on what überboomer

****Hillary Rodham Clinton (who made her own announcement on the Web yesterday) called in a 1969 commencement address a search for “a more immediate, ecstatic and penetrating mode of living.”****

Yes, vote for a president that doesn't believe in age discrimination against any age of Americans! That would be Senator Clinton!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder.html?ex=1327035600&en=b1368edf6827a3a9&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

32. Hillary: "To America's youth, work is a four-letter word"

It was a dumb gaffe on Hillary's part. Now, I've never before thought too much of it, but your pathetic attempts to play up Obama's out-of-context remark make Hillary's attack on American youth fair game, just as much. Oh and BTW-- I'm not an Obama supporter.

[Tellurian]

38. In case you need a history lesson..It's always been Boomers who have affected change in this country

And if Hillary said: "To America's youth; work is a four letter word." How is that statement in any way derogatory in that Hillary won't work for change for them?

And as far as issues are concerned, Obama offers nothing in the way of change. For instance, in last nights' debate Obama falls short of addressing the question:

"Maria: Why is is so difficult to get healthcare?"

"Obama: My mother died of ovarian cancer. I have a healthcare plan. You should have healthcare as good as I do. As president I will do this." (this supposedly was Obama's shining moment in the Univision debate. But look at what he'selling..an unrealistic dream)

Why didn't Obama say what we all know to be true. Republican legislators, as they did to Hillary's Health Care program of the 90s, are thwarting the passage of Universal Health Care! How hard would it have been to just tell the Truth?

So, please tell me how is this presidential contender Obama ready to lead *ALL* of our country...

also tell me how many years away from Social Security are the youth of America?

Here is Hillary's answer to her Health Care question:

"Jorge: What did you learn the first time you had a plan?"

"Clinton: I am proud we tried. I will present my healthcare plan next week. We need universal healthcare. Even the insured cannot get medical care. I just helped a mother whose child could not get the operation the child needed even though they had healthcare."

[elfin]

7. I have snubbed AARP since their

awful push for Plan D - and cashing in on same.

They are now just another money grubbing lobby - glad my choice (Edwards) didn't attend.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

9. Elfin, that's fair on your part and I'm sure a lot of people sympathize

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the AARP here (and along similar lines, thinks they should or should not be snubbed), all I was trying to do is to confront an obvious article of disinformation by showing that the candidates really aren't snubbing the organization. Again, one can still *criticize* (as well as praise) the candidates for that if desired, it's just that it's critical to have the right info, and the accusation of a snub by the Hillary supporters is blatantly false.

[cutlassmama]

8. I read another post where she said messing with SS was

"off" the table, but Obama said it's "on" the table. Thus, my 50/50 decision between the two changed my vote to her.

[Adelante]

12. No, that is not true

Not at all.

[papau]

17. Obama said he was open to changing Social Security with "all options on the table - he refused to

take off the table the Bush separate accounts offset by benefit reductions.

Hillary has said the Bush separate account plan was off the table.

[maximusveritas]

18. Absolutely not true

Obama specifically opposed Bush's plan, in the same interview where he said all option were on the table. I guees you can criticize him for saying "all options" when he didn't mean it, but that's about it.

[papau]

21. He said "all options are on the table" - interviewer noted that Bush separate accounts were

included in "all"

Obama then said he was opposed to separate accounts

indeed my memory - which sucks - seems to recall him after saying he opposed Bush separate accounts his repeating that all options have to be on the table

I'll let you work out what he meant

The fact he said "all options are on the table" is on video - as is the rest - the oppose Bush comment - and whatever followed (I wouldn't trust my memory on what followed - I just was so surprised by the comment that some parts stuck in my memory).

[maximusveritas]

25. Here's the parital transcript. It ends with Obama saying he opposes partial privatization

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/05/obama_brushes_a.html

I just think Obama was saying "everything should be on the table" without thinking that privatization could be included in "everything" since he had previously stated his opposition to it. It was a rhetorical mistake on his part, but it's pretty clear where he stands on that issue.

[papau]

28. Thanks for the link - as I said - I was surprised by the statement but as you noted he corrected

himself.

Glad my faulty memory can be replaced by a good transcript. And I am glad he did not go back to "all" is on the table.

Coming soon - in 2 weeks - Hillary outlines her universal Health plan.

Meanwhile Edwards has a great idea of a internation org that fights terrorists.

It has been a good campaign and we are still far from the first vote being cast!

[calteacherguy]

10. That's the second piece of disinformatiion from camp Hillary today.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here...

[Tellurian]

20. I'm still waiting for the link to back up your accusation..

Who are you to make an accusation, refuse to prove it, then have the thread locked ?

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. I, for one, would be perfectly fine with snubbing AARP.

AARP does not speak for seniors. It is an insurance forum, not a seniors forum.

Fuck AARP

[Bitwit1234]

13. Oh are you giving Obama excuses.....typical.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

31. I'm not an Obama supporter, Bitwit

I haven't yet made up my mind, in fact (which I kinda wrote nice and explicit up at the top of the message to make it nice and obvious)-- just trying to level the playing field as far as, oh, you know, basic truth and other luxuries like that, which are kinda nice to have when making such essential decisions as voting in a major party's primary. But thanks for playing.

[TSIAS]

14. K + R

While I don't like the AARP, I guess they are a political force that needs to be attended to. To think that any politician would snub older voters is so beyond ludicrous. Everyone in politics knows they vote in high numbers, so to suggest that Obama (or anyone else) would ignore them is stupid.

Thanks for providing some context for this situation.

[superkia]

15. Vote Kucinich, no excuse needed!

[MethuenProgressive]

26. Flame bait - nothing more, nothing less

[Tellurian]

27. Feigned Outrage..

There is one poster from the (other) team that continually posts at least 3 or 4 Hit pieces from RW Blogs, on some days up to 5, attacks on Hillary everyday. Nothing is said about it. If this is a new Iron Clad Rule, let's make sure we keep the playing field level. If anyone starts a thread from a RW site or RW Blog that thread will automaticly be locked... Any objections?

[liberaldemocrat7]

30. I'm a liberal, live in NY and won't vote for Hillary.

Sorry but she won't go for single payer universal health care. I also have not heard a peep from her to repeal Medicare part D and place the prescription drug benefit in part B and cover it like a doctors visit, implying no extra premiums, no extra deductibles, no means test and no coverage gap. I also want the means test for Medicare part B repealed.

Hillary still has until January 2008 to voice this loudly on the senate floor to get my vvote.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

40. Apparently, it's beneath you to read the DU Rules here.

We argue with issues not personal attack. Personal attacks are the final resort of losers..

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

33. No, Flamebait is posting a false accusation against the other Dems that breaks down

on examination. And that requires a response. You had BS called on you and you got caught, and you can't take it. I haven't made up my mind on the Dem candidates, but I have zero tolerance for BS accusations against each other, something which far too many Hillary supporters have become infamous for.

[Tellurian]

41. Buh-Bye...

The only one demonstrating a breakdown is YOU!