I am Not going to be a lackey for anyone

[Jesse Hemingway]

I know someone has said this and also said they will just fall in line and vote for the whoever the Democrat candidate is.

80% of the republican party followed that philosophy in 2000 and 2004 and now there done with the republican party.

Hillary will do the same thing to the democrat party as george W. bush did to the republican party.

[LynneSin]

1. oh BULLSHIT

Go ahead everyone flame me. This is just another ant-hillary thread where the 50 or so anti-hillary posters will try their darndest to get this on the webpage so they can make this the DEMOCRATIC ONLY FOR CERTAIN DEMOCRATS UNDERGROUND.

BULLSHIT

Seriously, admin can we have a forum for the 2 sentence "I really don't have anything important to say but badmouthing hillary and hopes that I'll get this mindless shit on the home page" forum.

And yet there are people who pour their heart out into some amazing writing only to see it sink because god forbid we put really amazing writing on the home page.

BTW - we didn't lose 2000 & 2004 because of bad democrat candidates. If you haven't heard - both elections were stolen. Hell Rolling Stone magazine did a 2 magazine expose by Robert Kennedy Jr. about the theft in Ohio

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

3. Oh get over yourself

That grape koolaid is really sinking in for you isn't it?

[Jesse Hemingway]

12. If Clinton is the nominee good luck I really mean it I wish only the best for her, but

I not going to help so please do not take that in a bad way i just do not trust her. So if it is not Kucinich, Edwards, Obama and,Dodd sorry no can do i do not see a lick of deference between the rest of the democrats and and republican philosophy.

Good luck Hillary supporters i am not on board and i will never be on that wagon I have got draw the line some where.

[saltpoint]

14. You don't get to draw the line. That's not your privilege or perogative.

You get to vote for whom you wish, but other Democrats in the months-long process ALSO get to vote for whom THEY wish, and unless you are going to personally hack the voting machines in favor of your first choice, the majority Democratic primary voters' first choice will prevail.

I'm not seeing the point of flying into a rage and pouting over it if it isn't one of your guys.

[LynneSin]

33. You do realize this is a website for democrats

:eyes:

I hope you read the rules of DU - if Hillary gets the nomination then all this bullshit goes away.

[iamahaingttta]

5. LynneSin, many of us really really really...

...do not like Sen. Clinton.

I know that I for one take offense to your "I really don't have anything important to say but badmouthing hillary and hopes that I'll get this mindless shit on the home page" characterization, and I find it hard to believe that you can't, or don't want to understand why people are adamantly opposed to Sen. Clinton becoming the nominee.

Yes, it was stolen. Yes, we may be discussing Apples and Oranges. However, I tend to agree with the OP, that Sen. Clinton becoming the nominee and the president will be bad for the country.

You can call bullshit on me all you want, I don't really care, and I don't have to vote for her if she is the nominee.

Sorry...

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. I agree with LynnSin

I am tired of the liberals buying into the crap spewed by the right. We are not lemmings and should be able to see the lies for what they are. You don't like Ms. Clinton because of her political positions? Fine. But, this constant nodding-along-with-the-neo-cons is getting old. Aren't we smarter than that?

[abq e streeter]

8. Good candidates, bad campaigns

embarrassingly bad campaigns from two good men who would have made good presidents. Yes, the elections were stolen, but the poor campaigns we ran allowed them both to be be close enough to steal... And of course the complicity of the MSM with the repubs helped make it close enough to steal too, but again, part of a good smart campaign is in finding ways to overcome the corporate-propaganda "news". I don't like Hillary, but certainly don't hate her. I think those that say things like she's no better than Bush are being ridiculous, but I agree with those that say simply that she's a little too business- as -usual, and cozy with corporate America etc. All respectful pro Hillary posts/threads are welcome in my eyes, as I hope my respectful disagreements with Hillary supporters are objectively considered by them. I feel sad seeing the vitriol that occurs a little too often here between people who I assume have the common objective of helping to save our country from the ravages of not just Bush , but of a once decent (if wrong on most issues) republican party that turned into vile, dangerous alliance between corporate fascists and clueless christian/fundie-taliban footsoldiers.

[Capn Sunshine]

20. Like I've said since the beginning: it's the organization that stinks

IF Hillary enjoyed or aspired to grass roots support from the mainstream progressives, she wouldn't be working with the organization she has. These guys remind me of neocons. They have the same blind faith in certain positions which despite evidence, they cling to by repeating their assumptions like they are gospel truth. They lost 2004 and they lost 2000. Now they want a shot at a three-peat.

[abq e streeter]

37. Damn good point Capn-----Carville,Mcauliffe etc.

and it gets worse for me personally, because, as I've noted here before, an old undergrad buddy, who I haven't seen in ages, but who I always admired and respected, is one of the Clinton inner circle. But yeah, I don't understand how excited so many people who claim to be , and no doubt are, progressives, get over Hillary's candidacy. Part of it ( I'm guessing) is nostalgia for the "good ol' days" of the Clinton presidency (to me, chock full o' compromises/sell-outs to the repubs), and a hell of a lot is being so thrilled at the real possibility of a woman president, that they willfully ignore how much of a sellout her record suggests she's willing to be. ( and it seems like yesterday when so many progressives were thrilled at Pelosi's ascendency to speaker just because of her gender) I don't doubt the sincerity of Hillary's supporters, nor am I so pompous as to preclude the possibility that they're right, and I'm wrong. If she becomes the nominee, I fervently hope that I AM wrong about her. And once again, it makes me sad to see the anger, the insults etc. flung around here , as I've seen in so many Hillary pro and con threads here, including some exchanges below. I'm not a fan of voting for the lesser of two evils AGAIN , but there are times that the greater evil is SO extreme, so dangerous, that ya just gotta suck it up and vote for the lesser. In my opinion, 2008 is one of those times. But I fear we may be blowing a crucial opportunity to put a stop to the madness if we nominate HRC. Just my opinion...

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

4. Lemme know how that perfect world is workin' out for ya.

:thumbsup:

[TreasonousBastard]

6. So, what the fuck are your options? One or the other will...

win, so you vote for the one you would rather win, even if it's Hillary.

Or don't vote at al.

How hard is that?

[Mythsaje]

7. Though I'm no fan of Hillary

there is NO way I'm going to contribute to the election of another Republican to the office of President, even by sitting it out. My perception of her is that she's the status quo candidate from the Democratic side. She'll do nothing significant to change any of the things that desperately need changing and has more or less signed on with much of the general policy positions, domestic and foreign, of the neo-cons. It'll be business as usual.

But even so she'd be better in the long run than any of the current crop of Repug weeds up for the job, if only because she's tied herself to them out of expediency rather than ideology. Given a Democratic Congress, she won't publically oppose any progressive legislation. On the other hand, she won't take any strong action on her own to bring any such legislation to fruition. She'd nominate a tolerable candidate for the Supreme Court, should a spot become vacant. She'll appoint decent, capable people to cabinet posts.

None of these things are insignficant and reason enough to vote for her in the GE against any of the Repug contenders.

[abq e streeter]

10. Exactly

[saltpoint]

13. Not so, Jesse. Voters get to pick from a ballot of choices current to

the trend and circumstance of the time of their caucus or primary.

Until that system changes, that's the lay of the land.

You no more know what one candidate is going to do as president than anyone else, including the candidates. We're "hiring" them to navigate through difficulties we all face. Your first choice and my first choice and the next person's first choice might not be the choice of the majority of Democratic voters.

That's how the game is played.

Your comparison in your OP is badly skewed, in my opinion.

[Jesse Hemingway]

15. Still would not vote for Clinton did not like what the first one did so part II no F$KKKING way

[saltpoint]

16. You've stated your position forcefully. But so what?

If you are itching for reform in the way we nominate a ticket, I think you'd enjoy some support on the boards.

Just slamming into the current frontrunner really isn't very persuasive.

The woman is qualified Constitutionally and well-positioned in all respects to be the next U.S. president. We have to pay the historical piper. I wanted Hart over Mondale, didn't get it. I wanted Bradley over Gore, didn't get it. I wanted Udall over Carter. Didn't get it.

You volunteer for a favorite. If that one drops out, volunteer for another candidate. At some point one candidate emerges at the top of our ticket.

Until it's changed, that's how it works.

[Jesse Hemingway]

21. She is not the real front run

Prove to me she the front runner please.

[saltpoint]

39. I can read a poll. I can read half a dozen polls. Right now every single

one of those polls snapshots Senator Clinton with significant support nationwide, including strong performances in one-on-ones against potential GOP nominees.

Senator Obama is usually second in those same polls. Senator Edwards usually third. Governor Richardson usually fourth.

As in every election cycle there is likely serious fluctuation in polling among candidates as voters begin to hone their attention on the issues and start matching urgencies with campaigns.

At this moment, however, Senator Clinton is the frontrunner for our party's nomination in Denver.

[NoPasaran]

19. Yeah, I don't know which was worse

Was it the eight years of peace or the eight years of prosperity that you hated more?

[Jesse Hemingway]

22. Nafta

I fought against NAFTA years before Bill signed into law.

[TankLV]

28. I suspect you won't vote for ANY "democrat"

And,FYI, "WE" call ourselves the "DEMOCRATIC" party, and we are "DemocraTIC" candidates.

You and your repuke friends are easy to spot, BTW...

[Jesse Hemingway]

30. I can call it what ever i want

I am starting to understand your depth if that is all you got maybe I should not waste my vote.

[Zenlitened]

17. Too late.

:eyes:

[Capn Sunshine]

18. well old buddy , first , it's DemocratIC Party

and the only ones who call it the "Democrat Party" are generally right wing wackos trying to pass as Democrats. It's a tell.

[Jesse Hemingway]

24. Ok tell me what is a democrat today oh wise one

Lets see your game enlighten me. Maybe I just do not understand so give me your sales pitch.

[AlCzervik]

23. "the Democrat candidate" careful, your Sean hannity is showing.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

27. Ahh - good catch...

Another repuke troll trying to tell "US" what "we" should do.

And just joined up to do it, too...

Nice...

[Jesse Hemingway]

29. Lets do it; you think you know something i do not know

Please i want to read what makes you think you know what i am.

[TankLV]

26. Oh fucking BULLSHIT...

Get a grip...

[Jesse Hemingway]

31. There is NO such thing as a

I hate to be the one to point this out that there is no such thing as a
100% liberal nor
100% Conservative

If there is please point them out to me, you see everyone has their issues that are important to themselves.

George W. Bush said these are my friends the haves and the have mores yet the reality is that he truly represented that group only.

Jerry Brown the Attorney general said a very profound statement about politics " it is like paddling a canoe you paddle it on both sides a little to the right and a little to the left to keep it going in the proper direction"

So let me hear what makes you think you can fire the dig at me and say i am a republican?

That method of logic of saying i am republican to discount my idea was developed by the the founding father of the neocon movement and who was that?

Please step up you started lets see what you got.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

34. If I only voted for the candidates that agree with me even 75% of the time

I'd have no one to vote for.

Seriously we need an Anti-Hillary Underground so all you miserable complainers can hang out together and we don't have to put up with this bullshit anymore.

I'm seriously tired of republican enablers and that's what all this bashing against Hillary is.

Drink up, I'm sure the repukes are making a fresh bash of Grape Kool-aid for all of you

[lyonn]

35. Do you believe Hillary will not make nice with all the nations

bush has bashed? This issue is a major one. Bill and others will work toward letting the rest of the world know the evil one, bush, is gone and thinking people have taken over.

Hillary is not one of my top 3 candidates. But, If we don't take over the presidency and a larger portion of the Senate we are doomed I tell ya', doomed.

There is no god powerful enough to help America should we have 4 more years of repub. rule! Most of America knows this by now, some are a little slow recognizing what bush has done to destroy hundreds of years of following our founding fathers guidelines.

So, who are you voting for?

[Jesse Hemingway]

36. I never said Bill Clinton was not a political animal

I think Bill Clinton was awesome at politics maybe one of the best ever. That does not mean he was more of a true classical Conservative in his politics.

Why would Hillary say she would not negotiate with Iran? Iran is the country bush is really after.

What has Iran done to be blown of the face of the earth? Living on top of exxon's oil.

[lyonn]

38. Her answer seemed to be a "get Obama" comment

She did want parimeters, how easy is it to tell Iranian leaders she wants talks without compromising the U.S. I'd rather she had handled it better, just my opinion. Obama and Hillary need to cool the one-upence game.

The poor repubs fail to say anything controversial. Dullars that they are.

Edit for clarity: I have no doubt that Hillary will be more than willing to bounce ideas off Amadajihidianiakd(?) if she becomes president, and it won't take a year I'm sure.