My parent's take on the Dem race: What two non-English speaking Hispanics think.

[Colobo]

My parents live here in Fla, and we talk about politics all the time. My dad is a legal resident from Dominican Republic and he can't vote, but he is extremely vocal about his take on American politics, and my mom is Puerto Rican (like me) and, of course, she can vote. She is an independent who leans to the right on social and economic issues and left on health care and the war. She voted for Jeb Bush because she felt he cared about Hispanics (married to one, the guy speaks Spanish flawlessly) and for GWB in 04 because she felt Bush needed a chance to fix the mess he created in Iraq and because I was for the guy (yes, mom saw me campaign for the guy and felt like she needed to support him as well).

Well, my dad is a lefty except for gay rights (declared homophobe who think gays are inmoral deviants). He supports Hugo Chavez and the leftists movements in Latin America, including Castro (although he doesn't say it openly). He oppossed the Iraq War from the start and told me Bush was a crook and I was supporting a big mistake (the Iraq War). He was right.

This is what they think about the 08 election and the Dem primary:

-Democrats need to win in 08. Mom thinks Bush is an incompetent and a Dem is needed to fix both the health care crisis in the country and the Iraq mess. Dad thinks a Dem will make America a respected nation again.

-We are black Latin Americans, so we know a bit about racism, and that is a hot topic when it comes to Barack Obama. My dad, who is a bit racist himself, thinks Obama should drop right now. He feels no black man or woman will ever be president of the US. I don't think dad would support him even if he gets the nomination.

Mom is proud of Obama and likes him a lot, but thinks most Hispanics in the US are more racists than white Americans, so she thinks most Latinos won't support him and that the most he will be able to get is the VP spot in 08, and that is being hopeful. However, she's ready to vote for him if he gets the nomination.

-Dad loves Hillary Clinton and Edwards, although he feels Hillary has it in the bag. Mom thinks Hillary has it in the bag, although she doesn't like her as much as she likes Obama. MOM THINKS JOHN EDWARDS IS A PHONY! She told me last night that she senses Edwards can't be trusted and she even called him a crook. I asked her why and she said that's what she feels when she sees him.

-Dad thinks Republicans have NO chance to win in 08. Mom is not so sure. Dad thinks Reps can nominate Jesus and they are still going down, and he says that if Obama happens to make it to the WH, is because of that, not because people truly like him. Both of my parents don't know who the Rep candidates are except for Giuliani, and they both fear him- they think he is a racist with facist tendencies that would be worse then Bush.

So, that's what 2 Hispanics living in Florida think. :)

By the way, mom predicts Hillary will be our next president and Obama our VP.

[Jade Fox]

1. Interesting. Thanks

[Dan]

2. 1000 posts on DU

and you supported Bush, interesting.

[Colobo]

3. People over here know about my past.

[Myrina]

8. 289 posts and you're casting aspersions on others. Interesting.

:(

[Dan]

34. yes and no,

I would have thought after 1000 posts on DU, listening (and maybe not always posting) that by the time 2004 rolled around, one would had a good idea of the type of person Bush was - and was going to continue to be.

So, my thought was - after 1000 posts on DU - what did you learn that would have led you to continue supporting Bush. Although it is possible that the 1000 posts could have all been generated after 2004.

Lots of people, like me, I suspect - listen to the various posts without commenting; trying to understand the mood of various people across the nation and in some ways the world.

That is why I visit this site - and only rarely do I comment - because I like to hear new ideas, thoughts, and opinions that may or may not reflect my own.

But it is hard for me - that one could have supported Bush in 2004 - that is still hard to understand.

[Colobo]

35. Read post #12.

[Dan]

37. I did, and thanks for the update

I can share this with you, I was in Panama in 1977 or there abouts when Jimmy Carter visited the Canal Zone; he promised and delivered their independence or control over the zone. For a lot of reasons on the American response that I won't discuss here, but the point was - as long as there is a chance in hell that PR might vote for the Democratic party - there will only be lip service to statehood by the GOP.

Enjoy...

[Arugula Latte]

52. Dan -- Just wanted to point out that people can rack up more than 1,000 posts in no time

Katzenkavalier joined DU this year, if you look at his profile. :)

[Dan]

56. understood that...

but some like me, don't post as much... thanks

[Adelante]

4. Thanks, Katz

That was an interesting read.

Look what you made your mom do :spank: ;)

[Colobo]

20. Sorry!

:(

[jaxx]

5. Thanks for sharing that. Interesting perspectives.

You all must have fun discussing politics. ;-)

[Maggie_May]

6. How do you feel?

Who will you support this time around?

[Colobo]

9. I became a registered Dem in early 06, and I'm for Obama all the way.

[TheDoorbellRang]

7. You campaigned for B*sh?

So three questions:
1) What did you see in him?
2) When did you realize you were played?
3) How did you end up here?

[Adelante]

11. That's a great screen name you have

And good questions, too. Katz has been completely honest about his past political idiocy and I respect that honesty a lot. When somebody doesn't have to say it and does even if it can hurt, well, I like that.

[TheDoorbellRang]

30. Thanks! You must be a Rex Stout fan, too!

:toast:

It's always interesting to find out how people journeyed from B*sh supporter to Duer. :)

[Adelante]

31. The Master!!

:toast:

[Colobo]

12. Let me answer

1) I didn't see anything particularly positive about him. I worked on 2 of his campaign rallies, so I saw him live, and he came across as a very calculating man who had created this "I'm a folksy dude" persona to get votes. To be honest, I never trusted him completely.

However, the Republican Party has strong ties with the pro-statehood movement in Puerto Rico, and Democrats have been more vocal supporters of the current colonial status. When I moved to the US in 2001, I quickly registered as a Republican in order to support the party that, supposedly, was more "Puerto Rican friendly".

I never truly believed in conservatism, to be frank. Also, I felt it was going to be easier to be accepted and liked by Americans in general if I joined the party of "patriotism" and "American values". I wanted to be seen as a good American, to show that Puerto Ricans could be good Americans too, especially after 9/11.

2) I knew all the time I was in the wrong place, but I felt I had to be a Republican for the reasons I gave you above. I remember that a good friend of mine, a hardcore Republican (she's Puerto Rican) introduced me to Sean Hannity in late 2003. When I started listening to him, I felt sick. I got headaches (no joke) while driving because I wanted to scream that all he was saying was bullshit but I repressed myself. For years I tried to indocrinate myself so that I could be a good American, not some black Puerto Rican guy in America. It's complex and sad, but it was like that.

3) I learned about DU in the Hannity forums. People used to trash DU all the time (they probably still do), and I came here to read what people posted. Eventually, however, I started realizing I could not pretend anymore, and started challenging conservatism/Republicanism with everyone I could, including myself. By late 05 I realized I couldn't stay in the wrong side anymore, and changed parties in early 06. Keep posting over there for some more months, but now as a left leaning centrist (to avoid getting banned). Eventually I stopped posting there, and at the beginning of this year I decided to join DU.

I don't regret it one bit. This is my home. It always was. :)

[PatSeg]

21. Wow, thanks for the honesty!

Your responses are very honest and give me hope that there are a lot of people out there quietly moving to the Democrats. I'm glad you feel at home here.

[Colobo]

22. You are welcome, and thanks for being so accepting and understanding.

:hug:

[PatSeg]

27. I'm always impressed with honesty

and having had many conversations with Hispanic friends, I understand your parents' viewpoints, even if I can't agree with all of them. It is obviously that you made a conscious choice to think independently and come to your own decisions. I'm assuming that your parents had something to do with that, as they raised an inquisitive person capable of critical thinking.

[TheDoorbellRang]

29. Thanks for answering

So glad you found DU.
H*ll, so glad I found DU. This place is awesome.

:hi:

[Olney Blue]

46. Thank you for taking the time to explain your history!

:hi:

I was raised as a Republican in an extremely fundamentalist environment.

People can change....

[ieoeja]

51. I think you misunderstand the R/D stances on Puerto Rico.

As a rule Democrats would love to add Puerto Rico as the 51st state. But they oppose forcing Puerto Rico to make a choice between statehood or full independance.

Republicans want to force that choice. They believe Puerto Ricans currently receive special treatment. Ask any Conservative and he will tell you that Puerto Ricans get all the benefits of American citizenship (they will probably use the word "welfare") without any of the costs (they will tell you that Puerto Ricans pay no federal taxes).

But while they will always offer up both choices, if Puerto Rico actually voted for statehood, the Republican Party would go batshit crazy. They would threaten to resort to armed rebellion before they would accept Puerto Rico as a State (see US history of Andrew Jackson versus the proposal for Cherokee Statehood).

The last thing they want are several million more Spanish speaking minorities as American citizens.

[Colobo]

57. Mmm... Dems are wrong on the issue, I think.

You need to keep in mind that the most important pro-statehood figures in Puerto Rico have been or are aligned with the Republican Party. José Celso Barbosa, Miguel Angel García-Méndez, Luis A. Ferré, and currently Luis Fortuño, Miriam Ramírez de Ferrer, Orlando Parga and others have had strong ties with Republicans, including the Bush Family. Pro-Statehood Puerto Ricans know this, and we also know most Democrats in the island as pro-colonial status, and the few pro-statehood Democrats (Carlos Romero Barceló, Pedro Rosselló and a few others) are very shady characters.

Now, the problem with American Democrats is precisely what you point out: They don't want to decolonize Puerto Rico. They don't wanna kill the completely innefficient, outdated and inmoral colonial system the island is under. We need to kill the "Free Associated State", and Democrats want to keep in on the ballot because most Democrats in the island happen to be supporters of this. The colonial option should be off the ballot.

Republicans, at least, have favored decolonization, that is what most pro-statehood and independence supporters, me included, are looking for. Of course they don't really want an island with bunch of Spanish speaking mulattos as a state, but at least they understand the colonial status needs to be eliminated.

Democrats are wrong when it comes to the Puerto Rican dilemma, and they don't seem to realize it.

[CitizenLeft]

59. good for you

:hi:

Thanks for your parents perspective. It'll be interesting following them as we get closer to the election, if you post any updates.

[emilyg]

10. Thanks Katz

Listen to your parents.

[Colobo]

13. I agree with them on everything except Obama. I believe in him.

[emilyg]

23. Good for you. Loyalty is a good trait.

I think I would like your parents very much.

[Cleita]

14. Except for the homophobia and selective racism, your dad and I would get along fine.

Voting for someone just because they speak Spanish and are married to a Hispanic is a big mistake many Latinos make. You really need to look at their politics and their record. I don't care what they say and how many languages they say it in, I want to look at their past actions and present politics. This is why Hillary won't get my vote in the primaries. Also, there is a big question in Jeb's and George's past as well as too how much they were involved in drug trafficking. I believe a lot and daddy Bush was able to cover a lot of it up and make it go away. This may explain the flawless Spanish you say he speaks. I'm not that impressed with his Spanish. It's not very educated Spanish and a politician, especially one who might become Governor or even President, should be educated and well spoken. Oh well, George can't even speak English. At least Jeb can do that.

[Colobo]

17. Jeb speaks a very good Spanish, I think.

Could be better, but it's very good. In terms of how many Hispanics vote, sadly many Hispanics are one issue voters- they vote based on who they think is more "Hispanic friendly".

I think my dad and you wouldn't really get along well. He is an old school, mysoginist "machista" and homophobe. He has said he admires Hillary because she was a "lady" that stayed "in her place", supporting Bill.

Dad is a very controversial individual.

[Cleita]

18. Actually, I do give Latino men a little slack on the "old school"

misogynism because it usually come with gifts, romance and courting. However, Hell will freeze over before I marry any single one of them. Your father though would treat me as an equal now because I have reached the age of the widowed abuelita who is in charge of everything anyway.

[Colobo]

19. LOL! Hehehehehe...

Not all of us are like that, though. Many young Hispanic men are reacting against the beliefs of the past. :)

[CK_John]

15. Will mom be voting in the primary? Time is getting short to register or change to DEM. n/t

[Colobo]

16. She wants to remain an independent. The only thing I feel keeps her

from becoming a Democrat is gay rights and abortion. My mom is a social conservative, like many Hispanics. She's more reasonable than my Dad, though.

[msongs]

24. so your dad agrees with Hillary/Obama/Edwards - no gay marriage nt

[Colobo]

25. If you wanna see it that way, yes. He also opposses civil unions.

[Crabby Appleton]

26. Thanks for the info. nt

[BeyondGeography]

28. Great read, Katz, and thanks for staying so loyal to Barack

it's not as if you're getting your pro-Obama inspiration from Mom and Dad!

Here's to a great debate performance tonight from our guy.

:toast:

[LWolf]

32. Iteresting peek at the way some others are thinking!

Thank you for sharing.

From my family:

My mom is a wonderful woman with incredible empathy for others. She comes from the working poor, and leans liberal, with an extremely strong work ethic.

She tends to form her opinions by listening to people and talking to people. Unfortunately, she doesn't always look underneath the surface appearance of things. Fortunately, she has me to point out the underside of every issue. ;)

Mom is a long-time Democrat and an ardent fan of Bill Clinton. As I noted, she doesn't look deep, and often won't see flaws until it's too late. I expected her to jump on the HRC bandwagon, because she's both a woman and a Clinton, or the Obama wagon, because he's black. I think she was drawn to both. She called me, though, and asked me what I thought. I told her. She admitted a deep disappointment with HRC, and regretfully passed on Obama because of some of his stances on issues. She hasn't made up her mind. If she goes with one of the top 3, it will be Edwards, who is campaigning on a more people-friendly platform. She, though, like me, and like your mother, doesn't "trust" Edwards. If she goes on issues alone, it will be DK, without question.

My oldest son may or may not even participate in his primary, but will vote for the Dem in the general. He despises Republicans, but politics aren't at the top of his interests in life. He'll vote for the democrats to defeat the republicans, and move on with his life. Unless I change his mind when he visits next month. :D

My younger son is a declared anarchist. He has literally never cast a vote in his life. He despises the current corrupt system, and doesn't want to participate in it. In 2000-2004, he worried about me. He didn't like my time on DU, considering democrats to be as corrupt and complicit in wrong-doing as republicans, and was uneasy at the idea of me registering with a party after a lifetime of political independence. He wanted to "get Saddam." His best friend was over there helping do just that, in Mosul.

By 2004, though, he'd decided that Bush was a disaster and the war was a mistake. He still didn't trust Democrats, though. In 2007, as the primary season opened, he suddenly decided to register to vote. He likes one of the candidates. Gravel. He knows that Gravel has no chance, but will cast his first vote ever (he's 28), for him. Gravel's presence in the race has certainly been beneficial for my family, and I'm glad he's there. I don't know if he will vote in the general election. I know he won't vote for some. While he was horrified with my support of DK in '04, it came from listening to the negative propaganda used to marginalize him. Since Mom hasn't wavered, he's taken a closer look, and he'd vote for DK. He might vote for Biden or Richardson.

He has an automatic, visceral distrust of Edwards. I don't know why. It's just there. He sees Obama as a loose cannon on the "war on terror." He wouldn't vote for him anyway, as he will not vote for someone who wants to "reconcile" faith and politics; he wants faith and politics not only divorced, but desires that "never the two shall meet." And HRC? The epitome of "leader of the corruption." Disclaimer: he didn't get these attitudes from me. He knows I'm an idealist, and while he listens, he doesn't follow. As an anarchist at heart, it would be true to say he follows no one, lol. So, if Gravel, DK, Biden, or Richardson are nominated, he might vote in the general election.

[coco77]

36. I agree with your son...

about edwards. I didn't like him in the last election and I was really angry that he tried to run again. He seems to say just about anything to prove he is the best candidate. I am not crazy about any of them and just because everyone is hyping up the top three I now will vote for Biden, if he hasn't dropped out by then.

[LWolf]

43. I really dislike the "hype."

They corrupt, circular "media spin creates name recognition/impression which affects poll numbers, which again affect media spin and time given..." just completely turns me off.

I don't want a candidate chosen for me by the msm or some polling company.

I'll choose my candidate based on issues. For me, that's DK. Frankly, I'd like to see ALL the candidates but the top 3 do well enough to shake up tptb.

[coco77]

33. I agree with your Mom...

[Dawgs]

38. Interesting.

My Mom and Dad live in Florida - two white retirees from Ohio.

My Mom likes Obama, my Dad says it's too early (but kind of likes Richardson). They both can't stand Hillary.

[Cha]

39. Sorry, I cannot believe

you campaigned for fuckhead in 2004..boy, have you seen the freakin' LIGHT!

Welcome back for the depths of delusion.

[Colobo]

40. LOL! Thanks! :)

Now that I look back, I can't believe it either.

[Cha]

45. That's cool..I've had

experiences that left me wondering.. ":wtf: was I thinking?!"

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

41. "He feels no black man or woman will ever be president of the US. "

Yeesh, this is a sad commentary on our country if this belief is still being held. Very, very sad. I haven't made up my own mind, but one of the best parts about an Obama Presidency is that it would thoroughly, utterly refute such a belief. (BTW-- Obama as veep? He'd never accept that now, certainly not as running mate for the other Big 3-- way too much bad blood.)

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

42. Unfortunately, seems like the Rethugs *do* have strong prospects in '08

"Dad thinks Republicans have NO chance to win in 08."

I wish that were true, but it definitely is not. Not by any stretch. A good number of my friends are Independents, and while many of them do tilt Democratic, a shocking number (much more than I thought) of them are already signaling an intention to vote for at least certain Republicans-- namely Giuliani or maybe Thompson. This is borne out in the polls, which show Giuliani in particular even with or even beating the top Dems (esp. Hillary, though Obama, Edwards do better).

I was curious about why, considering Bush's failures, but the truth is, though people may severely dislike Bush, this doesn't mean that they're necessarily anti-Republican per se.

The Democratic control of Congress has a lot to do with this-- many in the public are blaming Democrats in Congress for the failure to extricate ourselves from Iraq, and for the recent economic troubles. Also, the situation in 2008 is as unique as I've ever heard in US political history, since although the Republicans are the incumbent party, the Democrats have more insider candidates. Hillary in particular, is viewed as a member of the current establishment. In contrast, both Giuliani and Thompson are outsiders-- Giuliani in particular, who has been an executive entirely outside the Beltway.

So paradoxically, the current troubles in the nation benefit the top Republicans, who are seen as outsiders. Assuming the 2008 election is already in the bag for us is a recipe for disaster-- there's a good chance we'll lose it, and if want to do otherwise, we really have to choose carefully.

[bbgrunt]

48. Most people want to see evidence of Leadership. The

dems are hanging themselves by being so timid about impeachment. If they don't go to the barricades soon, they are dead meat.

[illinoisprogressive]

44. my mom is from France, not a citizen but, raised me to be political and democrat

[Sancho]

47. Nice Post!

I think Jeb fooled a lot of people...

[bbgrunt]

49. what an interesting family you have.

Having lived in the DR for a couple of years I can assure you that your Dad's take about prejudice between people of color is part of the culture there. Good hair vs. bad hair determines your station in life.

Glad you saw the light. You sound pretty politically astute. Hope to see you running one day!

[Netbeavis]

50. Thanks for sharing. Interesting perspectives.

I think the moral of the story is our candidates appeal to a wide variety of people.

[ChiciB1]

53. Nice Post & Interesting Too.... But I Must Beg To Differ! I DON'T

think Hillary has it "in the bag" and feel as time goes by it will become more and more evident. I too live in Florida and even though JEBBY has an Hispanic wife, unless things had changed during his last 6 or 8 months, his wife DIDN'T want to life in the Governor's Mansion. I never held their daughter's addiction problems against them, having had to deal with a son who was into Meth for a time. What DID offend me was the preferential treatment she got, and then screwed it up several times.

Trying to get help for my son was IMPOSSIBLE because any "good" Rehab cost thousands and thousands of $$$$! As for Obama, I don't dislike him, but there's something that holds me back from supporting him. As for Hillary, she lost me a long time ago, and I WAS looking forward to her running too!

I'm going with Edwards and I don't buy the "phony" thing anymore than any other candidate. In fact, I think he's really been pretty good, especially lately with some intelligent and thoughtful plans for the future.

But I'm biased.... Go, Johnny, Go!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. Well that explains a lot.

[Colobo]

58. Like what?

[allisonthegreat]

55. Interesting...n/t