I know it's not as sexy as a party at Oprahs - but Biden discusses what he found in Iraq

[jillan]

Petraeus is "dead wrong"
This administration and the surge are a failure....
Not working in Anbar province either....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/09/biden-just-back-from-ira_n_63641.html

[daninthemoon]

1. Big message I got was he will vote to keep funding. his reason is

bushler will find other ways to keep war going, but funding will supply armored vehicles which they have been lacking since day one. troop protection over troop vulnerability. kinda makes sense, although I suspect I'm about to get a du trashing

[emilyg]

4. No trashing from me.

[jillan]

5. He is holding hearings with Petraeus and Corker this week

My hope is that the Senate comes up with a timetable for those funds.

Biden makes no bones about his feelings for the troops - he doesn't pander -
AND doesn't wait until all the votes are cast to see how he is going to vote.

(edit - my fingers are not coordinating with my brain today!)

[Cha]

6. I won't trash ya..I'm busy trying

to understand the whole thing. If that's why they're funding then the should make that PERFECTLY CRY-STAL CLEAR.

There's gotta be a way to PROTECT THE TROOPS AND GET THEM THE HELL OUTTA THERE.

[babylonsister]

11. Getting them 'THE HELL OUTTA THERE' would be protecting them.

I do wish Biden had made that crystal clear.

[jillan]

12. Even if the Senate votes tomorrow 100 - 0 to cut the funding -

the troops are not coming home on the same day.

If we can save some lives and limbs in the meantime, it needs to be done.

[babylonsister]

16. I realize that, but strongly object to Biden's comments regarding

continued funding, and that's not because I don't also support the troops. I want Congress to vote for them to come home-period. I know Joe has to toot his own horn, RE: MRAPs, and realize he has a son on his way over there, but I was not impressed this a.m.

[snappyturtle]

23. Exactly! We won't need the MRAPs if the troops come home! From

what I've heard these MRAPs are not quick to come off the assembly line!I thought Biden was rationalizing his capitulation to the wh and repukes.

[jillan]

26. He said that this strategy is a failure and the troops need a timetable

to come home. He has already publicly said he doesn't want Beau to go over there.
You can be sure Beau will be foremost on his mind while the debate is going on.


The Biden boys - Beau is the one in the front.

[PatSeg]

22. Being his son is being sent to Iraq in 08,

Biden certainly has amble motivation to end this war, but with a real, doable plan.

[Cha]

45. Yes,Protecting, While getting them THE HELL OUTTA THERE..

Everything is so Muddied..people are so down on Congress and here they're just trying to Protect the troops.

[mrigirl]

7. Not from me!

Or anyone else that supports Biden. What I got the most was that Petreaus's report will be fed thru the White House and not completely accurate. Which is why Biden went to Iraq this week- to see for himself. They won't be able to pull the wool over the FRC's eyes especailly w/ Biden as the Chairman. He knows the truth!!!!!

[sandnsea]

8. It's a hell of a mess

I'd like to see them call on Americans a lot more, to ramp up the pressure on Republicans to end this war. But if that doesn't happen, then cutting off money for troops is a huge risk to take. There is no guarantee Bush would end the war.

[jillan]

10. Bush's goal is to hand this over to the next administration

He'll just borrow more money from China to keep it going.

[sandnsea]

19. Congress can make it illegal to spend money in Iraq

They did it in SE Asia, and they did it in Nicaragua. Then, the only way Bush could continue the fighting would be illegally, which is what caused Iran/Contra. The problem is that we don't have the votes, and we don't have enough Democrats pushing to get the votes either.

[PatSeg]

17. Bush will NEVER leave Iraq

He is like the abusive spouse who trashes the house and leaves the mess for someone else to clean up and then blames it on someone else!

Now it will take a real "grown up" to step in and try to fix the mess, for which he/she will probably get blamed when the results aren't pitch perfect. Meanwhile, Bush will be out clearing brush and planning his presidential library in between speaking engagements.

[saltpoint]

33. I think that is a real surgical read into the mind, such as it is, of George W. Bush.

Bullseye.
:thumbsup:

[PatSeg]

56. He reminds me of the many

alcoholic, abusive spouses I've known who never, ever take responsibility for their actions. I've been in many blue collar neighborhood taverns, and there was a GW in each and every one. They talk too much, but have little to say and they always have an opinion based on pretty much nothing. The area around them usually thins out as people try to move away, but they can usually hold a few captive by buying them a drink or two. Eventually they are left alone ranting to the exasperated bartender who is watching the clock, waiting to finally say, "last call".

[saltpoint]

61. Sad and likey true. We need to get into the first hours of the Iowa caucus

to remind ourselves that all presidents aren't this bad.

And to remind our allies of the same.

[PatSeg]

103. Yeah, we have to shake the past six years off and get back

to sanity. Looking for "better than Bush" isn't too hard, that's just about EVERYONE. We have to elect someone who will become the president we need and deserve. Time to raise our standards!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. it did make sense. it also made me sad, the dems are in a really hard position here.

[PatSeg]

25. They certainly are

If they don't fund the troops, then the blame for every subsequent American death will fall on them, not Bush.

[sendero]

118. You think..

.... those "subsequent deaths" will reach anything close to 4,000?

I don't and I think your argument is hogwash.

[PatSeg]

123. No I don't

I think the republicans would try and turn the tables and fix the blame on the Democrats. That is how they operate. They never take responsibility for their own actions. They just divert it. Republican tactics are "hogwash", but they still use them.

[sendero]

124. I'm ready to give..

.... the American people a little more credit. They know the game now, having seen the promises vs the reality.

If Dems keep waiting for a perfect scenario politically, we will never do anything. That seems to be the holding pattern we are in now.

[PatSeg]

126. I hope you're right about the American people

There are many days that I believe we've grown up a lot as a people. Then there are others where I encounter shocking apathy and ignorance, and I am stunned by people who appear to be sleepwalking through life and have selective memories. I'm not generally cynical, but I do know there is a large segment of society who believes what they're told by the MSM as long as it is in short sound bites and doesn't require any thought process.

I do believe the republican party has lost a lot of its power to sway public opinion and that their playbook has gotten tired and worn, but there still are people who are buying the old, stale ideas.

[Rose Siding]

125. Why can't he write legislation to use the funds already provided for those vehicles?

There's always another option. This "no-can-do" bull that pols try to sell us is really maddening.

[msongs]

2. troops who leave iraq alive have no need for corporate profit driven armor protection nt

[jillan]

9. But while they are there - we should just let them die or get maimed

for life?

Even if the Senate votes tomorrow to bring the troops home, it is going to take some time.

[superkia]

21. So all the money they had for the war is gone?

I thought bush was asking for more money to continue his surge and that they do have money available now that they could use for armor and things.Are they fighting the war with funds they receive daily? If we give them more money then they will use what money they already have to continue the surge. Hasn't this been the excuse for the congress to continue this war, if so it will never end.

Now don't scream at me I just don't know enough about the specifics of where the money is or goes? I am confused a bit.

[jillan]

28. Personally I wish

the funding for the war and the funding for the troops were in 2 seperate bills.

I don't trust this administration with one damn dollar!

[superkia]

29. If it were dont that way, they couldnt play the political head game with us.

That should be the only way it should be done!

[daninthemoon]

42. That's a great idea. no idea if it's possible, though. anybody know?

[PatSeg]

30. You aren't the only one confused

I don't think anyone truly knows where all that money went. It was given too quickly and easily without any accountability. Congress needs to demand that each and every dollar be used appropriately and that the war profiteering contractors account for their outrageous charges to the American people.

[druidity33]

57. i don't know

I have absolutely NO FAITH that funding the Resident's war will IN ANY WAY help the troops with the logistical and physical support they need. THAT MONEY WILL GET SUCKED UP BY MERCENARIES AND CORPORATIONS AND EVEN IF THEY 'TAG' IT FOR ITEMS LIKE ARMOR AND ARMORED VEHICLES IT WILL COME WAY TOO LATE TO HELP (the goods themselves will probably be shoddy and dangerous... look how well Halliburton did with the H2O supplies for our troops... aren't they all drinking bottled water now?)!!!!! The premise itself would be laughable if it weren't so maddening.

:(

[superkia]

121. Cross your fingers and hope the Democratic candidates

will stand up and scream like the American people are.Lets see if and of them are capable of being presidential and making a stand?

[sandnsea]

3. Thanks

I'm glad he's pointing out the misinformation about al-anbar. Here's two al-anbar leaders and there is no way anyone can think they're working with us out of any new-found appreciation of the US. We need to get out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=137643&mesg_id=137643

[Nutmegger]

13. Sending this to the greatest...

General Betrayer is a fraud, just like his little report that he'll deliver this week.

Keep talking Biden. I like what I'm hearing from you.

[jillan]

14. Thank you!

(like your avatar)

[jillan]

15. In the press:

Ahead of two days of crucial testimony by Bush's leading military and political advisers on Iraq, Sen. Joseph Biden indicated that he and other Democrats would persist in efforts to set target dates for bringing troops home.

"The reality is that although there's been some mild security progress, there is in fact no security in Baghdad or Anbar province where I was dealing with the most serious problem, sectarian violence," said Biden, a 2008 presidential candidate who recently returned from Iraq.

http://cbs2chicago.com/national/topstories_story_252135452.html

(this is all over the place in the press)

[democratsin08]

20. biden is great

obama is doing too much hob nobbing with the "beautiful" people.

[PatSeg]

35. I would like to see every "serious" candidate

take time off from the campaign trail and go to Iraq. A garden party in California is not very persuasive for me and I'm sure soldiers in Iraq won't be very impressed.

[daninthemoon]

44. absolutely. I just wonder if biden's senate post's might make it

easier/more appropriate for him to get there. Course Hil's on armed services, and I don't recall her going there at all. Being she was such a hawk for so long, she kinda owes it to all those troops, doesn't she? Or has she gone and I don't remember?

[jillan]

47. Obama is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee -

and seeing how they are going to put Petraeus and Crocker on the hot seat this week, one would think he would
be interested to see what is going on.

Hillary did go there last year? with McCain.
Obama went there in Jan 06.

Edwards, I could see would not be as easy.

[maximusveritas]

49. What would he see there? We're all quick to point out how the Republicans

don't actually see anything when they go there since they only visit the safe areas and are heavilly guarded.
Once you've been there once, you've seen all you're going to see. Any further visits are just for PR, like this one for Biden.

[jillan]

54. You are joking right?

The situation in Iraq has changed - gotten worse - as time goes on.

And the fact that Repugs do go over and say things are going great is the exact reason why
more Dems need to go there, as Biden did, to tell the truth - to verbally fight the liars word to word.

[maximusveritas]

59. You are joking right?

You actually think people need Democrats to go over there and report back in order to realize the Repugs are full of it. The people who believe the Repugs won't trust the Democrats to tell them the truth. People who believed things were getting better aren't going to hear Biden tell them that's not true and suddenly change their mind. That's just not realistic.

[PatSeg]

53. Yeah, I thought about that

I'm sure it would be difficult for someone like John Edwards to go to Iraq, but like you said, there is no reason why Hillary can't go. If Biden gets any traction from this visit, we may see everyone clamoring to get on board a plane to Iraq!

According to Wikipedia, Hillary went to Iraq Feb 2005.

[demommom]

119. I think she has been 1 time.

[saltpoint]

24. What a valuable glimpse into Joe Biden. He does not debase the general but

resolutely disagrees with his conclusion.

I think that would be an extraordinarily useful character trait in a president.

[jillan]

27. Another eloquent post!

What would us Biden supporters do without you??

[saltpoint]

31. Hi, pirhana. The posts the Biden Group on DU have been putting up have

been pretty upbeat, very affirming, pro-Democratic as well as pro-Biden, and you've been generally quite civil to other posters in their support for other candidates.

Taken in sum, that's what this site is at its best.

Biden's detractors have not followed him for the length and trajectory of his career. If they had, they wouldn't be detractors.

The man would make an outstanding president.

[jillan]

34. If only Oprah felt that way

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

36. LOL! I half expect her to give Barack and Michelle a new car.

[PatSeg]

39. I've been looking for an opportunity to throw the "new car"

theme out there and you beat me to it! Now everyone scream and squeal and jump up and down!!!

[saltpoint]

41. LOL!

[Laurab]

128. I like Biden - I actually like him a lot.

I believe he's by far the most experienced candidate, especially on foreign policy. I don't like the way he talks and talks so eloquently and then goes and votes the opposite way sometimes, but I do think he'd make a good President.

I don't think an attack on Obama/Oprah is really warranted - IMO Obama is the best of the "top three". I'm glad Oprah is supporting him. I wish Biden was doing better in the polls - I'd probably vote for him over anyone else if I felt he had a chance of winning the primary, but thus far he isn't doing well. It really has nothing to do with Oprah/Obama, and I think it's sad that people often have to trash another candidate when supporting their own.

It's still early, and anything can happen, but the reality is, it's not looking good for Joe right now. I hope that changes, and it might, but if it doesn't, I want someone with common sense, intelligence, and honesty in there, and the only one I can see like that who has a chance is Obama.

[PatSeg]

38. I have found the Biden supporters to be very tolerant

of the other candidates overall and very civil in their discussions. Most of us believe in building UP our candidate, not tearing DOWN another.

Your observations are very perception, yet again!

[saltpoint]

40. Hi, tsegat01, but I can't take the compliment on the observations. It's just

that I'm in an ebullient mood over the news that the admins are going to provide free beer and sandwiches starting tomorrow.

That's gonna be awesome. European beers, too. None of this cheap domestic swill.

Biden's profile is more likely now to go up than before. The timing of his Iraq trip and his return to Washington to set the table for the Petraeus hearings is an indication that the Biden team is looking ahead -- way ahead.

I can't help but think that David Petraeus knows Senator Biden is not going to be a bureaucratic pushover.

[jillan]

43. I'll take a Mackeson's dark please

Smooth as silk....

[saltpoint]

46. Not bad at all. I might join you on that one.

Make it two, bartender.

[PatSeg]

64. Oooh, that looks good!

Never tried that one!

[PatSeg]

62. It's nice to see a candidate get some coverage

doing his job, instead of attending fund raisers, and it is potentially more effective. Of course I could be dreaming that people are actually paying attention to real news.

Petraeus has to know this hearing won't be a cakewalk with Biden there.

[saltpoint]

68. Yes. In the best case for the country, and certainly for Iraqi citizens,

I'd like to see Petraeus and Biden publicly demonstrate their mutual respect and convincing brainpower.

It would provide a very sharp contrast for the Washington Beltway pundits regarding the Biden/Petraeus Adult Problem-Solving duo and a certain Commander-in-Chief operation over on Pennsylvania Avenue.

If I were Petraeus, I'd much rather work for Joe Biden than George W. Bush.

[ShortnFiery]

51. You forgot Pro- Corporations first, above all Pro-Military Industrial Complex - bombs and guns! rah!

[saltpoint]

66. Be fair and take onto the scale the entire number of votes Biden has

cast for distinctly liberal causes.

Here is a site for that tally going back a significant number of years:

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Joe_Biden.htm

--and not at the very bottom of the page the charted assessment of his voting pattern over long periods: "hard core liberal."

I like hard-core liberals.

I like Joe Biden.

[ShortnFiery]

72. No, The Bankruptcy vote was a true "deal breaker" - IMO, for true liberals. nt

[saltpoint]

77. An acknowledged disappointment among progressives, yes, but not less a

disappointment than Russell Feingold's vote for John Ashcroft's confirmation.

I'm arguing for the long-term look back and the long-term look ahead.

I am drawn to the liberals and Biden is one.

[ShortnFiery]

80. Comparing the confirmation of an AG in NO WAY compares to Biden's true Corporate colors

No, he's no liberal - for that one vote he RUINED countless American Families who must often declare bankruptcy due to Catastrophic Medical illness. Again, Biden is PRO-CORPORATION first and foremost. Biden's liberal, just like HRC is liberal. :eyes:

[saltpoint]

84. What an odd interpretation. We disagree. Jimmy Carter fired Bella Abzug.

It did not disqualify him for the Nobel Prize he genuinely earned.

Neither Feingold nor Biden's singular votes that we've indicated above disqualify them for consideration of public service, as neither vote, singularly weighed, is definitional to either man.

There's no zipless f-ck. Our public servants rise from public stock and are no more and no less human than you and I.

[PatSeg]

88. Zipless f-ck???

:rofl:

[jillan]

91. Well - I guess being zipless certainly would help!

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

127. We're not talking "Jimmy Carter" whom I admire only for his humanitarian work.

Biden screwed over the American People by voting for The Bankruptcy Bill. That vote SHOULD and WILL deny him liberals' votes. The foregoing is fact vice fiction of extrapolation. :shrug:

[saltpoint]

129. We are indeed talking Jimmy Carter here. He fired Bella Abzug because

he couldn't take her heat.

There are analogous citations for/against any number of public figures, politically figures especially, and that's what keeps things interesting.

We agree on Carter's humanitarian work and there's no reason we shouldn't. It's universally acclaimed, and properly so.

And this despite his rather weak-kneed Cabinet, one of the worst of my lifetime.

I challenge you to find in the link I've provided a vote of Joe Biden's you concur with, whose tone and intent are to your liking.

You won't have to look far.

He's a classic NE liberal.

Your comments pretend to isolate him on one vote. That's a patently unfair and inaccurate read of any one, no matter who they are or what they do.

[PatSeg]

37. Essential trait, I would think

[jillan]

32. Biden AGAIN goes after Gates to get the MRAPs to the troops:

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48731515_joseph_biden_biden_gates_additional_delays_deploying_mraps_and_efp_protection_iraq_unaccept

Thu, 09/06/2007 - 12:37 — newsdesk
Sen. Biden to Secretary Gates: “While you have said the MRAP is your top priority, in a time of war, it must be more. It must be a national priority.”
September 5, 2007 -- Washington, DC – In a letter to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) called on the Pentagon to immediately remedy the delays and meet the full needs of commanders in the field for life-saving technology in Iraq, specifically the need for more Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) Vehicles and Explosively-Formed Penetrator (EFP) protection. Road-side bombs are responsible for 70 percent of casualties in Iraq and the Mine Resistant Vehicles can reduce those casualties by two-thirds. Sen. Biden will be in Iraq later in the week and will participate in a military briefing on MRAP and EFP technology

=================

It's not just a bunch of bs that Biden is serious about this.

[ShortnFiery]

48. Biden is Pro-Corporate Whore - IMO, he's a "No Go!" right out of the gate. nt

[jillan]

50. Because he wants to get our troops armored vehicles?

And before you call him a corporate whore - you better
check who is funding him compared to the other candidates.
That is a bunch of shit.

[ShortnFiery]

52. Because he talks out of both sides of his mouth: how about stop the madness that is OCCUPATION?

If you haven't guessed, Iraq is NOT our 51st state. :eyes:

[jillan]

55. I don't know where you are getting your information about Biden

The Biden I have been following has been one of the first Senators to say it's time to propose a timeline for withdrawal.
Has met with foreign relations experts to come up with a plan to get us out of there.
And has been more than upfront about how he will vote (unlike certain other Senators that wait until the vote is over to cast theirs)

You might not like where Biden stands, but he does not talk out of both sides of his mouth.

[ShortnFiery]

58. Of course, it's his MO - he's been prancing and talking - then folding like a cheap suit at votes.

I will NOT ever support him due to his voting "Yea" on the Bankruptcy Bill. Newsflash: He's not going to win. :shrug:

[jillan]

63. Biden does not pander - he will tell you how he is going to vote

and why.

You can insult him all you want - but insult him for what he deserves to be insulted for.
Not for talking out of both sides of his mouth or for being a corporate whore.

I'm not happy with his vote on the Bankruptcy bill either.

And no one knows who is going to win - except maybe Diebold.

[ShortnFiery]

65. He is always talking ... and talking and pandering. Many people agree, many don't

He's a known quanity within the beltway. :shrug:

[PatSeg]

69. "Known quantity" - what does that mean?

"Many people agree, many don't"??? I'm trying to understand what you're saying, but I'm sorry, I just don't get it.

[ShortnFiery]

70. OMG! Don't you recall his disastrous past? The plagiarism - his reputation for not knowing ...

when to STFU? He's a shoe in for DE Senator as long as he wants. That's partly why I'm praying for term limits for all of Congress.

[jillan]

76. There you go again - the plagerism was a smear campaign

from John Sasso - who worked for Dukakis!

He later PUBLICLY apologized to Biden for dragging him thru the mud.


That is such old news.

[PatSeg]

78. Sorry, I like the fact that he speaks out

and if occasionally he puts his foot in his mouth, he certainly isn't alone in that regard. The only candidates who don't misspeak now and then are the ones who never stray from the script, and even then they can be vulnerable.

I guess it is inevitable that two people can look at the same candidate and see a different person. I'm sure I will never change your perspective and you won't change mine.

[demommom]

120. ok,we get it,you won't vote for him

[mrigirl]

60. ShortnFiery

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Biden wants to withdraw the troops from Iraq and end this war! What planet are you on????????? If you knew ANYTHING about Biden you'd know this!!!!!!!!!! Get a clue!!!!

[ShortnFiery]

67. No, that's where you are pulled in - he wants to DRAW things OUT

- in other words, give as many sweet wet kisses to the Corporations who comprise the Military Industrial Complex.

The ONLY answer is to WITHDRAW in an orderly manner - beginning NOW!!!

Biden is part of the problem - you just will not allow yourself to see it.

Hello!?! They are dragging their heels. Don't let them. :grr:

On Edit: Please pay attention to the difference between Biden's statements now and THEN how he votes? It's his actions, not his pontification that counts in the end. :(

[mrigirl]

71. What????

Biden wants everyone out ASAP!!! He only wants to leave residual troops in Iraq until all the American Civilians are out safely. If you actually LISTENED to one of Biden's speeches you would know that he's calling for this war to end. He does say that as long as there is these young kids in Iraq lying down thier lives it is irresponsible not to give them the proper equipment to survive. Our government should be ashamed of themselves letting our kids go to war w/ out the right protective equipment when we've had the technology all along. Biden is not a Corporate Junkie. You are totally misinformed!!!!

[ShortnFiery]

74. Again, let time pass. You will see NOTHING that he says comes to fruition and he votes for more $$$

to feed the beastie that is The Corporations that comprise The Military Industrial Complex.

Look at what he DOES (how he votes in the end) not what he SAYS (talk is cheap). ;)

[jillan]

73. You obviously don't like Biden - we get it - we disagree

You're not going to make me angry or change my mind.

And I can tell you feel the same.

Case closed.

[ShortnFiery]

75. That's very thoughtful of you - I will NOT forgive Biden for The Bankruptcy Bill.

Yes, we disagree. :hi:

[PatSeg]

82. Ditto

Pointless debate and there are too many crucial issues at stake to let our emotions take over the discussion.

[gateley]

79. All along I've thought that if this Admin just TOLD US THE TRUTH, (that they'd fucked up BIG)

that we as a nation would come together and work together to right the wrong. It's the lies and disregard for the citizens, Constitution, Bill of Rights, that have made W and his posse so despised.

I trust Joe Biden to tell us the truth, period. More so than the other "top tier" candidates. Maybe I'm being a little We Are The World-ish, but I believe our country could become a cohesive entity again. Joe Biden would be an exemplary leader.

[mrigirl]

81. You are so right Gateley!!!

That is why I support Biden!

[PatSeg]

83. Trust

That's a good point. After the last six and half disastrous years, the people need to be able to trust their leaders to tell them the unvarnished truth, even if we don't always like what we hear.

[jillan]

85. You are a breath of fresh air

after the conversation I have been having for the last 1/2 hour....

[saltpoint]

86. Have to say congratulations, pirhana, for putting up a thread that

has garnered such a vigorous response.

Likely that not all the respondents agree with all the other respondents, but we'd all have to agree that the responding itself has been lively.

[jillan]

87. Except for a few

It has been alot more Biden-friendly than I expected.

whew!

[saltpoint]

93. The press coverage today was also more favorable to Biden, I think.

I'm wondering if more than a few of the media-types in DC realize that Biden is returning from Iraq as a freshly-informed observer in addition to his long-standing expertise in foreign affairs, and that all the hoopla about Petraeus' intellect (and I'm convinced that he is very bright) has a Democratic counterpoint in Joe Biden.

Bush has his star general. We have our foreign policy adept.

Bring it on.

[PatSeg]

97. Don't you wish you could hear what Bush

mumbles under his breath every time Biden leaves the room? Brings to mind Peter O'Toole in Becket, but nothing nearly that articulate.

[saltpoint]

100. Yes! O'Toole in BECKET. Bush's words would be coarser, yes.

But Joe Biden has just upstaged him.

The Bush people have been trying to set the table for this Petraeus appearance for weeks, and with one fell swoop and a nicely-timed 8th trip to Iraq, Joe Biden has pretty much tipped the canoe.

The Bush White House wanted it to be David Petraeus, Company Man, will proclaim reasonable success to justify continued administration recalcitrance on the Iraq occupation and troop levels.

Joe Biden has just converted the dialogue to David Petraeus, infinitely smarter than Tommy Franks, will comment at a level directed at why Bush's plan has gone so horribly awry.

Petraeus can't sloganeer with foreign policy adept Joe Biden in town.

The dialogue has changed.

[PatSeg]

105. I knew you'd get the Becket reference

The line jumped into my head when I thought of Bush's reaction to Biden's trip to Iraq. Of course Bush tried to one-up him by going there first, but Bush's trip was full of the usual missteps. Thanks for embarrassing us again Mr. Bush!

I'm kind of thinking, that Bush is thinking, "Aw, Joe is harmless. Ain't nobody paying 'im no mind, no how. I sure know, I don't."

Well, as you said "the dialogue has changed", but somebody forgot to tell Bush.

[saltpoint]

106. Agree. Bush is the clueless variable here. Rove's out the door and

all his pals are gone or packing to leave, and there's nobody to tell him that the voters are no longer interested in any surge, they don't want to occupy Iraq, they don't want extended tours for their soldiers, they don't like being left vulnerable because national guard forces are used for war and not homeland rescue, and not least, they don't care to trade their daughters' and sons' blood for Dick Cheney's wealthy friends at Halliburton.

Bush is the smug emperor walking buck naked down the street and the whole town can see for themselves what a miserable parade this is.

Biden's got he pulse on this one. He's outflanked the Bush team and Petraeus' response is going to be geared toward Biden's knowledge instead of Bush's incompetence. And the public is listening.

[PatSeg]

107. Yep, this isn't dumb luck on Biden's part

He knows what he's doing and Bush is clearly misunderestimating him. Bush is living in the past where a neat photo-op with the soldiers and a Bin Laden video will save him. Sorry baby, you wagged that friggin' dog one time too many!!!

[PatSeg]

96. Adversity can bring out the best in people

It puts our beliefs and ideas to the test, and brings any doubts to the surface. I think we are all better citizens for it.

[PatSeg]

90. And that's politics

If we all agreed, then we'd be republicans! Being a Democrat is far more interesting and stimulating!

Thanks to Pirhana!

[jillan]

94. go turn on c-span

Deb's hubby was at the breakfast.

Thanks for all of everyone's help:toast:

[jillan]

89. Biden is going to be on Road to the Whitehouse coming up shortly

along with Dodd :) and McCain :puke:

[mrigirl]

92. I don't like McCain anymore!!

he's a real piece of work lately. extremely disappointing!!!!

[jillan]

95. He's my Senator - and never has done a dang thing for this state.

Welcome to the club!

[PatSeg]

98. Bush destroyed him in 2000

and he's never been the same since. The man has lost his way and he's getting worse all the time. How very sad.

[mrigirl]

99. Watching him on MTP this am

before Biden was on I couldn't bear it and actually had to change the channel!!! I can't listen to him anymore. You're exactly right- Bush destroyed him. He's like a little Bush toadie now. yuck!!!

[PatSeg]

104. The Bush team slandered the man's family and reputation

and George said, "its just politics". Instead of standing up for himself and defending his family, he turned around and embraced the man! That represents a total lack of character and integrity to me. How can he face his family after that?

[jillan]

101. now!

on edit - he is such a little flirt!

[PatSeg]

122. Well I finally got to watch it

I missed it the first time it aired being I was here. His appearance was very impressive and he had intelligent, informed answers for every question that came his way. He remembered the names of people he had met before and spoke very directly to them. He's a natural in this kind of setting. He is a man who is as comfortable with an Iowan factory worker, as a foreign leader.

Wish I could have been there in person!

[illinoisprogressive]

102. not sexy but, important. I watched him today and he is really good.

[gateley]

108. Just watched the entire Joe Biden interview on Meet the Press --

Man, I love that guy!

[jillan]

109. Donate $10 to DU, get your star and

come join us at the Biden group

[PatSeg]

112. You don't have to donate to come to the group

You just need to be a donor to be part of starting a new DU group. Any registered member can participate.

[PatSeg]

115. P.S.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding on that one.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

110. Glad to hear someone's saying it

I can't forgive Biden for his support of that corrupt Chapter 11 reform bill, but I admit I've been impressed by him lately. Especially on Iraq, he seems to talk a lot of sense.

[PatSeg]

114. I can't say that I would agree with every vote of every candidate

but overall, I agree with Joe Biden more than I disagree. The longer someone is in the Senate or Congress, the more history he/she will have to scrutinize and criticize. Though I think the bankruptcy bill is significant, I can't make that a deciding issue for me in this election. There are too many pressing issues to address and Iraq is on the top of my list.

[Olney Blue]

111. Nice thread, Pirhana!

:hi:

[jillan]

113. Thanks!

[jillan]

116. The best thing Biden said, imho

was setting the record straight on Anbar province.

Biden explained Anbar province is not better because of the surge, but because the Iraqi's stood up
to Al Qaeda. Thank you Biden for clearing that up before the Petreaus report.

[PatSeg]

117. This has been said before, but it carries more weight

when it is said on MTP.