KUCINICH supporters and well-wishers only

[Skinner]

This is the official thread for Kucinich supporters and well-wishers to discuss his performance in the Wisconsin primary, free of disruption.

If you are not a Kucinich supporter or a well-wisher, please do not post in this thread. The purpose of this thread is for disruption-free discussion among Kucinich supporters. Any negative posts by opponents will be deleted by the moderators. We will open up separate threads where supporters of the other candidates can interact without disruption from opponents.

[Paulie]

1. Will, your numbers again!!!

00% reporting - Kerry 00%, Kucinich 00%, Dean 00%, Edwards 00%

:D

[bicentennial_baby]

2. Go Go Dennis!!

Waiting to vote for DK here in MA, along with my mom. 2 former Clarkies for Dennis!

[Paulie]

3. Evening fellow Kucitizens!

Isn't it great, knowing that we're voting for the bestest canidate running?

Dennis :yourock: :D :D :D GO DENNIS!

[bobthedrummer]

6. Yes!

:hi:

[XanaDUer]

4. Go Dennis!

YES.

[EXE619K]

5. Give it up for The Kooch!

The ONE guy, no one dares to challenge!

Best wishes for Dennis!

[bigwillq]

7. Good luck to DK n/t

[revcarol]

8. $$, votes,

and good wishes to Dennis.:yourock: man.

[eileen_d]

9. 1% returns - DK has 3%

:bounce: Hooray for DK! :bounce:

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Good Luck Guys!

I really like Dennis....I hope he does well tonight! :bounce:

[cosmicdot]

11. my personal campaign odyssey: from Gore directly to Kucinich

:bounce:

On February 17, 2002, Dennis gave his famous "A Prayer for America" speech that galvanized people across America causing them to flood his email with pleas to run for President

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

[Desertrose]

31. love that photo cosmicdot

yeah...only two years ago he gave his speech....."Prayer for America"...

I just want Dennis to be my President...is that asking too much?!

:hi: :hug: cosmicdot

peace
DR

[dawgman]

12. Let's go Dennis!!

[edzontar]

13. I hope Dennis is doing well tonight.

He is an inspiration.

[GreenArrow]

14. Well,

I guess Dean's supporter's are getting off the ship in droves, and Clark's supporters must be voting for Edwards. You'd think that DK could pick up some of that grassroots/outsider/antiwar vote. One would think that in a state like Wisconsin with a long-standing liberal tradition, that DK could get more than 3 or 4 percent of the vote.

So much for idealism. So much for honesty.

[Tinoire]

15. I am going to be very curious to read the caucus reports from

Progressives who were there.

[GreenArrow]

20. yeah, it'll be interesting to see

I hate to be a drag, but this is real disheartening. Dennis (and Al) go out in these debates and largely spell things out, tell the truth, making few bones about it, and they get their applause and a few laughs, and then people go out and vote for someone else. It's stone the messenger syndrome, I guess. It's depressing; the pro-IWR, Patriot Act, NCLB, candidates sit with nearly 75 percent of the votes, while the grassroots candidate collect almost nada. I guess the grassroots weren't too deep with Dean and Clark voters.

[revcarol]

17. Edwards is siphoning off the anti-NAFTA vote., looks like.

Don't understand it when most of those jobs have now gone to China, and Edwards voted for free trade with China.

Anyone else's ideas?

[GreenArrow]

21. my ideas

Kerry is establishment, therefore safe.

Edwards has pretty hair and a toothy smile, and is as bland and safe as milk.

[Tinoire]

32. Mine is a cynical, cold-hearted calculation on numbers

You guys know I would do ANYTHING, anything to get Dennis into office but he's been totally marginalized by the corporations and their media, the DNC, the DLC, and Democratic voters who are more interested in paying lip-service to progress than actually seeing it.

Edwards, slick used car-salesman, back-room deal lawyer that he is, is more palatable to the machinery. It also hasn't helped that Kucinich is supported by passionate voters who would deliver BUT is surrounded by a staff of neophytes, half of whom are totally inexperienced or have dual loyalties and are only along for the ride so they pump up our man as an "good man" while on the other hand knocking him down, from the very effing beginning as someone who is "alas unelectable".

I love Kucinich. Will work and have been working my fingers to the bone for him but his staff is totally ineffective against the machinery. As effing angry as I am against Trippi and Dean for their charade of Dean being THE Leftist, THE antiwar candidate- at least they knew how to play the game.

The problem is NOT Kucinich, his ideas or his supporters- it's his God-damned staff. They are either dual loyalty (CARDINAL EFFING SIN) or too ineffective against the machinery.

JEEZ Kucinich! Fire the LOT of them and come to DU for a 100% effing new staff and we'll take you there.

So weary... So sick of seeing him surrounded by people who don't have the know how and/or the 100% dedication to work their fingers to the bone for him.

Peace. & Go Kucinich! If the caucuses had started with California, you'd be where Edwards is right now.

[joyautumn]

54. ruppert on sheehan, kucinich, kerry

have you seen this:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102003_beyond_bush_2.html

excerpts:

"There is a man occupying a pivotal position in Dennis Kucinich's campaign that I am extremely leery of. And, so it seems, are some other Kucinich supporters.

In more intimate circles, my distrust of attorney Daniel Sheehan is well known. I have not made much of an issue of it, because Sheehan can get blown out of proportion. There are "attack poodles" who defend him at every turn. Sheehan is the man who literally destroyed two of the best and biggest lawsuits connected to CIA drug dealing in history: the Christic Institute lawsuit in the 1980s and a civil suit arising from the murder of Marine Col. James Sabow at El Toro Marine Air Station after Sabow had discovered CIA-connected C-130s flying tons of cocaine onto his base in 1990 and 1991. As it turns out, the cases ultimately connected with each other, and what happened in both cases is remarkably consistent."

"The great irony, still recited as a pro-Sheehan catechism today by many of his supporters, is that the allegations made by Sheehan in the case were subsequently corroborated, almost in their entirety, in hearings chaired by none other than John Kerry. What the Sheehan supporters fail to realize is that it was Sheehan's legal conduct, not the facts, that got the Christic case dismissed."

and on Kerry:

"I have a long history with Kerry. Back in 1986, 1987, and 1988, I was in contact with his office and his chief of staff Jonathan Winer on a number of occasions about CIA drug trafficking. They eagerly asked for any material I could send them and gave me a direct line. It was one of my most bitter lessons about how hot issues are controlled. Kerry, in charge of the potentially explosive Iran-Contra drug hearings succeeded in producing a 1,200-page record that was a treasure trove of information for researchers, but absolutely useless in unraveling a corruption that controls the US government to this day. What lies buried in those pages was enough to have turned the American political system inside out. In the end, its greatest usefulness was as a benchmark against which to compare the CIA's investigation of itself after the 1996 Dark Alliance stories and hard revelations of CIA connections to cocaine smuggling that Kerry knew all about anyway. Those of us close to the issue took the lemons Kerry had left us and made lemonade, as we forced the CIA Inspector General to reconcile his 1998 report with what we already knew was in Kerry's."

"A key sign that Kerry might be the anointed one came for me when George W. Bush's chief counter-terrorism adviser Rand Beers resigned in a dramatic moment last June, in protest over Bush's handling of the war on terror and his headlong rush into Iraq. Beers immediately became Kerry's senior foreign policy advisor, as Kerry continued to state that he would improve on and expand the war on terror. Beers' protestations concealed what I considered to be a much more sinister objective, the placement of a key, hands-on operative to manage a smooth transition of power and a continuation of secret policy. Beers, who had served in national security roles for three Republican administrations, was the man who had replaced Lt. Col. Oliver North after North was fired in 1987 during the Iran-Contra scandal."

[Kanary]

55. From your link...

"But rest assured that whoever emerges will not have been
chosen by the people. That is because the people are not doing what needs to be done
to change the system. Instead, they are willfully lining up to play a game that has been
set out for them, and one that is rigged, rather than insisting that they play their own
game."

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

Kanary

[dawgman]

22. I'm pretty discouraged how can his message not reach more than

3% of the "liberals?" I don't get it. I am frustrated and I am still waiting to hear someone on a major news show/channel say "Dennis Kucinich" with out adding "unelectable" or "no shot/ long shot." It is frustrating.

[GreenArrow]

24. it is frustrating

it's pissing me off.

It's not like I really had any hopes for this country, though. DK's ideas are ahead of the times, and when the rest of the country figures it out, it'll be too late, and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. He's not even that liberal, but he is honest.

[dawgman]

26. You are right as soon as Joe Six-pack realizes DK was

right it WILL be too late. Oh Well, I guess I will just have to learn how to Farm organically.

[yo-yo-ma]

40. I'm waiting for the words "Dennis Kucinich" on NPR!

It's such a shut out.
I don't get where the heart of liberals has gone. Not for a long long time has there been a candidate like Dennis. I am proud of his showings but want to see more. Can't wait for Super Tuesday in California.

[revcarol]

16. Anyone here commit to my "$5.00 for Dennis" game?

There are a couple of snarky threads out there right now.

[Paulie]

18. I'm so THERE

I'm sending $50 tonight. :D

[revcarol]

19. Details of the game:

If there are any threads that suggest that DK get out or slight him in any way, some have committed to send DK $5.00 per thread, AND post it on the thread!!

They diss him and DK gets more money!!

[mvd]

23. Hi fellow DK supporters!

:hi:

I am glad that it looks like I'll be lucky enough to be able to vote for him in the PA primary.

[dawgman]

25. good for you. bring family and friends

get them out and get them to vote for DK!

[mvd]

29. I will try

I'm having at least some success.

[bobthedrummer]

27. Hello mvd!

:hi:

[mvd]

46. Hi

:hi:

[Zomby Woof]

28. DeeKay!

:bounce: Go Dennis! :bounce:

[hedgetrimmer]

34. I dig that, "DeeKay!" n/t

[0007]

30. This little guy has won my heart, but I'm afraid that the US

isn't ready for the best yet.

[hedgetrimmer]

33. Kucinich, yeah man!

Rock'n for a free world!

[MidwestMomma]

35. Kucinich is such a valuable candidate for the race and the Party

If Dennis wasn't in the race, I doubt we would even be talking about NAFTA. If Dennis wasn't in the race, we probably wouldn't be talking about healthcare issues. If Dennis wasn't in the race, the Iraq war would be quietly pushed under the rung as much as possible.

He has a small voice but it is mighty. I think he keeps the other candidates honest in some respects. I don't know, maybe his calling is something beyond the office of Presidency. Don't get me wrong, he would make a wonderful President. But in some ways the presidency might actually stifle the work he needs to do.

I don't know. Just some thoughts on another primary night.

Go Dennis!

[Rhiannon12866]

56. I completely agree!!! Go Dennis!!!

By remaining in the race and not being disheartened by his poor primary numbers, he has managed to keep so many important issues before the American public. NAFTA and the WTO, for sure, but also our illegal and deadly involvement in Iraq, which he has opposed from the very beginning. I am pleased that he did slightly better in Wisconsin, but I am totally baffled as to why he hasn't done better, overall, since he, and his ideas, are the perfect antithesis to George Bush*.:shrug:

[Taeger]

36. Dennis "Give em Hell" Kucinich

I believe that Dennis Kucinich is the modern Harry Truman. However, his time simply has not come.

Truman made his mark in the house as a waste and fraud buster. He put war contracters on the stand and forced them to fess up that they were defrauding the people.

I think that Dennis' destiny is to be Speaker of the House. He is the peoples politician. Dennis' day will come.

[Kanary]

37. I was sure hoping for double digits

I wonder if Dennis gets discouraged at times like these. I just want to somehow let him know how much he means to all of us.

I'm just sooo glad to know that he's going to continue, no matter what! We need him at the convention sooo bad!

:toast: To Dennis!

Kanary

[no name no slogan]

38. Keep On Keepin On Kucitizens

There's STILL plenty of battles ahead. I know that in MN we're going to bring it on home for him, DESPITE the fact that the party bigwigs have all given their $$ to Kerry already.

We've shocked the world with Paul Wellstone in 1990, Jesse Ventura in 1998, and we'll blow their freaking minds with DK in 2004!!!!

:toast:

[dweller]

39. Poem for DK supporters

Throw Yourself Like Seed

Shake off this sadness, and recover your spirit:
sluggish you will never see the wheel of fate
that brushes your heel as it turns going by,
the man who wants to live is the man in whom life is abundant.

Now you are only giving food to that final pain
which is slowly winding you in the nets of death,
but to live is to work, and the only thing which lasts
is the work: start then, turn to the work.

Throw yourself like seed as you walk, and into your own field,
don't turn your face for that would be to turn it to death,
and do not let the past weigh down your motion.

Leave what's alive in the furrow, what's dead in yourself,
for life does not move in the same way as a group of clouds;
from your work you will be able one day to gather yourself.

Miguel de Unamuno


November is still about 9 months away, alot will change between now and then. Dennis is still in the race, and as long as he is there...

Peace,
dp

[DemBones DemBones]

43. Gracias y paz, amigo!

It's disappointing to see Dennis not get a large vote in allegedly-progressive Wisconsin, but he still has my vote on Super Tuesday!

DENNIS :yourock:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. Here's an appropriate quote from I.F. Stone

as quoted by Curtis White in The Middle Mind:

"The only kinds of fights worth fighting are those you are going to lose, because somebody has to fight them and lose and lose and lose until some day, somebody who believes as you do wins. In order for somebody to win an important, major fight, 100 years hence, a lot of other people have got to be willing--for the sheer fun and joy of it--to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose. You mustn't feel like a martyr. You've got to enjoy it."

I feel that we do have a great time as DK supporters. Who knows what we are starting?

[Kanary]

47. I hate that you're right

Because the time for this particular fight was over 50 years ago.

I guess I'm getting cranky tonight.

I'm sooo grateful for Dennis, and my admiration of him grows by leaps and bounds when I see, over and over, what he's contending with, and yet he keeps on keeping on, with his head high, and that great (and sometimes goofy) grin. Yeah, he's fighting that losing fight, and doing it with verve and spirit, but ..... it shouldn't be a fight NOW... this should be ground we've already won.

Poop.

Kanary

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Any numbers from individual cities yet?

Like Madison?

[hedgetrimmer]

42. Kucinich!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #1 baby!

[hedgetrimmer]

51. NUMBER 1! yeeeeaaaaah baby!

[snoochie]

44. I want Kucinich

This guy puts the rest to shame. We need him so bad, I wish so many people hadn't given up before the fight began. I hope more of them regain the hope and optimism we need before their primaries!

I can't wait for my turn to vote for Dennis. :loveya:

[rucky]

48. Three percent, schmee percent. His mere existance...

is good enough for me. He's in, we win.

:)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. Counties where Dennis made 5% or better

Ashland 9.9%
Bayfield 9.5%--both of these are thinly populated counties on the southern shore of Lake Superior

Crawford--5.4%
Vernon--7.2%
LaCrosse--5.6%--these three counties lie along the Mississippi River, approximately between LaCrosse and Prairie du Chien

Dane--6.1% (I expected more from Madison!)

Dunn--5.5% the main town in Menominee, home to a university campus

The other counties all gave Dennis less than 5%.

The distribution raises some questions. Why were there these clusters of votes? I know that Dennis was in Viroqua today, which is Vernon county, and when I heard that I thought, "Why Viroqua?" (I've been through it many times.) It seems to have paid off.

Maybe these clusters of counties reflect strong local volunteer organizations. I can't think of any reason why DK would do well in Dunn County but not in the counties on either side, especially since the county to the east has two larger cities, Eau Claire and Chippewa Falls, and the county to the west has become an exurb of Minneapolis.

And I REALLY can't think of any reason why he should have done so well in two adjacent counties on the southern shore of Lake Superior.

Thoughts from Wisconsonites?

[rhite5]

57. hmmm ... e-voting possibilities? or exceptions?

I know very little about demographics (or even the geography) of Wisconsin. But the unexplainable islands of different results could suggest some form of vote-tampering. These votes today were not caucuses, this was actual voting. What do we know about the pattern of the use of e-voting machines for either balloting or county processing in Wisconsin? In those same "islands" of different results, are the results for the 3 leaders out of line with the overall too?

Just musing ... but sometimes the clues show up in races the vast majority are not following so closely.

And of course it could be as simple as better organizing or a letter to the editor in a small town weekly that moved a lot of its readers. Or a popular local official endorsing or a popular minister or a popular local radio jockey.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. If there were tampering,

don't you think they would have either tampered with one of the front runners or given Dennis bigger numbers?

I'm inclined toward the "better grassroots" theory of why DK did better in certain areas. I know something about Madison, the LaCrosse-Prairie du Chien stretch of the Mississippi River, and Menominee, but I don't know anything about the south shore of Lake Superior. Could it be an old IWW stronghold, or something?

[goodhue]

63. Viroqua

Hello, LL. Well, as you know, I'm a Minnesotan but I have some thoughts.

I spent the weekend in WI visiting in-laws in suburban Milwaukee and taking in DK events in Stevens Point, Milwaukee, Madison, Viroqua and LaCrosse. Dennis was very well received at the Viroqua middle school Monday. Viroqua is in the heart of SW WI-based Organic Valley.
http://www.organicvalley.com/member/v7.10.html
Viroqua area has many progressive folks practicing sustainability.

In LaCrosse the crowd was large, bigger than Madison it seemed. Madison appeared overrun with Dean visibility volunteers. Kucinich was warmly received at capitol and in student union but State St did not have much in the way of DK flyers, in contrast to Dean, Kerry, Edwards. Dean was clearly an organized presence in Madison.

Ashland and Bayfield, like the north shore on the MN side, have many progressive free-thinkers. (Norwegian rather than German heritage).
I think the returns in NW and SW Wisconsin bode well for parts of SE and NE MN.

[JohnKleeb]

50. Keep it up Dennis

He is the best, always was and always will. I dont have much money and I am not even sure if I cna donate but I will try to soon. I wont forget you Dennis, win or lose, you always are my favorite, and youre going somewhere, and i want it to be the white house.

[revcarol]

52. thank you, John.

That means so much. We know how you love and support Dennis. And we ARE working for YOUR generation because Dennis is working for YOUR generation.He wants ALL of us to have a good future!!

Love ya!! :grouphug: (and don't sweat the small stuff like money. DK is squeezing those contributions until they yell "OUCH" and is running a super campaign on very little!!)

[Kanary]

53. What's with the CNN thing about keeping Dennis out of debates?

I didn't see any news today, and just saw the thread headlines about it.

I wanted to post it here, because I'm not wanting to argue with anti-Dennis people about it.

Does anyone have any more news on that?

Any clues how Dennis' campaign will deal with it?

If true, it really sux, and makes us, as a society, look so small.

Kanary

[rhite5]

58. I hope you get some answers, Kanary

I've been out of the loop on today's news too.

[bleedingheart]

59. I am switching my vote from Dean to Kucinich

I desparately want change in this country...a positive change not same old story different party.

[LWolf]

60. Welcome.

If you want positive change, you've come to the right place. Dennis will be working for positive change no matter the outcome of this election. And our support keeps him and the work "up front."

[Paulie]

62. Yep Yep

Welcome :D :D

[goodhue]

64. good article in Badger Herald accurately describes rally

but why was it published the day after the primary?

http://www.badgerherald.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/02/18/4031b76263ea4

Kucinich speaks at Union

by Christina Daglas, News Editor
February 18, 2004

A mix of Wisconsinites including students, adults and children gathered in the Memorial Union's Great Hall Monday afternoon to show support for presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich in what served as one last distinct push before the state sets out for the polls today.

Kucinich's progressive and liberal views attracted a diverse mix of individuals Monday, including musician Tim Reynolds, who played before and after the rally to stir up support for the candidate.

Kucinich entered the hall to cheers, a standing ovation and a musical medley courtesy of Reynolds.

"Hello, Madison," said an energetic Kucinich. "Are you ready to take America in a new direction?"

* * *

http://www.badgerherald.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/02/18/4031b76263ea4