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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:34 PM
Original message
I firmly believe that a lot of women, especially those 50 and younger,
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 11:00 PM by WCGreen
will vote for Clinton just because they feel it is time for a woman to lead this country...

I know some here will think that is a sexist remark and should not be mentioned except as the truth that shall not be spoken...

But that historical social moment has to be layered over what the polls are actually showing...

Especially after all the shenanigans, both dangerous and embarrassing, the manly republican daddy party have been caught red handed, with or without their Shillelagh's hanging out....

I think a lot of Republican women will split their vote with HRC getting the nod for president and then voting the ticket on the way down the ballot...

To harken back to the Mad Men (A wonderful AMC series about the early sixties, I digress) days, a real woman never votes and tells...

It's just a hunch, but I also believe a lot of professional women will vote democrat at the top while telling pollsters they have unfavorable feelings about HRC, especially those 40 and younger...

And of course this stuff will never show up in polls because polling of the kind to get at this hunch of mine takes a lot of time and effort to put together, let alone conduct...

And lest we forget, the nomination is still not hers, but we all have to admit, even though I have publicly come out for Edwards, it is hers to lose at this point...

Just something else to think about as this interminably long election season slogs onward...

Well, that's my two cents...
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think you have the wrong ideas about women
Women are, if anything, more critical of other women than they are of men.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Like I said, it's just a hunch...
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Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. Ain't That the Truth?
Women ARE harsher critics against women. And I think predictions of women endorsing Clinton out of gender bias are just as bigoted as assuming blacks will go for Obama without having some significant rationale beyond race.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. Oh, geesh
Women are MUCH, MUCH harsher on one another.

Many of us would still like to see a first woman president, and Hillary is the closest we will have come.

I'm not committed to her, but will see what happens by the time my state votes in the primary.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. I actually hope that the first woman nominated for pres
will be one I can feel good about voting for.

So, I'm leaning toward Obama.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. If you want him, you vote for him.
The primary is all YOUR choice. We won't know who stands with us until we cast our votes and count them.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Maybe a lot of women will vote for her...
But I won't, not in the primary, anyway.

I will vote for whoever our nominee is in the General, of course...

I do support the idea of a woman president. But I want one who's a LOT more liberal than she is.

And yes, how I agree....how interminably long this election season is....

Your two cents are worth more than most peoples'....IMHO of course.



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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. It's more about the general...
That's why I mentioned republican women...
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FreedomRain Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. No doubt, but
there's also people who won't consider voting for a woman, including a jerk I work with. HRC ain't my favorite candidate, but being a woman has nothing to do with it. I'll take President Pelosi next week if possible!
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yea but those types are probably already Republcians and so
it's almost a moot point...
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. to just vote for any woman is as irresponsible as
voting for someone cause you want to have a beer with them. I want a real democratic woman who is going to make me proud.
Hillary makes me cringe. She doesn't care about you and anyone who is not in her little group of greedy and corporate opportunists. She will set us back generations.
I vote according to the issues, the stands, the person and if they won't sell my country to the highest bidder. Try voting according to who would make the best president instead of whether she has a vagina or not.
Even Fonda and Gloria will not accept her. the feminists hate her. they got her number.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. Then why has NOW endorsed her?
I think the original poster has a lot of this right, and I think there are a lot of women out there who will vote for her simply for her gender and regardless of policy. If she's the nominee in the general election, I think we'll see some shocking numbers in bright red areas that show that conservative women are voting for just this reason. I still don't think she has a chance in hell or a Sojurners Coven of winning, though.

This is truly the unvoicable fact of her candidacy, and it's cloaked with endless denial and outright deception.

I've already encountered some people who've vehemently sworn up and down that they'd NEVER vote for anyone who voted for the IWR, yet they support Hillary. They deny that gender is the issue, but they're all women. I've also encountered quite a few who admit straight out that their support is because of gender; at least they're honest about it.

This is a big deal and should be discussed.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
67. I know many women not voting for her.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
76. If HRC is not a "real Democrat" what does that make BO, who has the same platform as her? nt
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. You may be on to something about the 50 and UNDER demograpchic. But here in NE Ohio
plenty of women I know, are not in Hillay's camp.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I think that is what they will say and then when they get into the
voting booth, the vote will go for HRC...
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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. not this woman --
no way.

here's your two cents back. you need them worse than i do AND i am unemployed :rofl:
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm voting for Edwards in the primary...
I was talking about the general...
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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. why do you concede so easily then?
i am sick of it being taken for granted that hrc will win the nomination. this is NOT over by a long shot. it started too early and too much money has been wasted on some over inflated egos. i intend to write in gore in my state's primary. if he has not declared by then. if nothing else this campaign has proved how badly election reform is needed. ymmv.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I'm not conceeding one inch...
I still firmly believe that Edwards is the best candidate...

But as of now, it looks pretty bleak for all the other candidates...

Although, things could change like that...

I thought that by mentioning the Repulican women that people would see I was referring to the General election...

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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. one step at a time, my friend --
one step at a time. i like edwards, too. i still think gore/clark is the best this country has to offer the world. that is my dream ticket. after that...i am going back and forth between kucinich and edwards. the republican women i have talked to ...have not made up their mind. :shrug:

it is a true horse race this time.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That's why I think HRC, if nominated, will win...
I think a Gore/Clark ticket would really be a dream ticket, but as the days dwindle (finally), the probability of that ever happening dwindle as well...
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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. you see the glass half empty
i see it half full
you think it is getting late
i say it is still early
you think if hrc is nominated she will win
i think if hrc is nominated ...please don't make me think about that :puke:

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Sorry....
I just was opining about why Rassmusen and others believe HRC will win the General, if she gets herself elected...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you for your concern about women who vote Democratic.
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 10:46 PM by aquart
We don't need your help to make our decisions.

And the series is Mad Men about the advertising industry. The title is a pun on ad men.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I knew I would find someone who would believe I am a sexist...
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 10:53 PM by WCGreen
And honestly, how can you say that I was trying to help women vote by saying that this is what I feel, a hunch, if you will...

And beside that, I was referring to women in the general election, not the primaries...

And really, it is about the early sixites and the people who work on MADISON ave., hence the Mad Men...

Sometimes I type faster than I think...

Beside all that, look at this post which pretty much says what I say...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3503446

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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. Disagree nt
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fedupfisherman Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Then why isn't Carol Moseley-Braun president??
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Because she really wasn't a good candidate...
People forget that fundraising is really hard to do and that raising funds is one measure of how much commitment is out there for a candidate...

CM-B had a tough time raising money and that is one reason she was not taken seriously by the voters in 2004...


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RFKJrNews Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. As a woman under 50...
...I will vote my heart and principles, which means I could never vote for HRC. Sorry to disappoint you.

Women voting for a woman just because she's a woman makes about as much sense as drunks voting for George Bush just because he's a drunk.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. So you won't vote for her is she wins the nomination...
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 11:16 PM by WCGreen
BTW, that doesn't disappoint me at all...

You see I can divorce myself from my personal feelings and talk about things that I might not agree with or like...

It's just the way I am...
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RFKJrNews Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. No, I would not
Let me add to my above statement, just to be perfectly clear:

<<Women voting for a woman just because she's a woman makes about as much sense as drunks voting for George Bush just because he's a drunk.>>

Or Democrats voting for a Democrat just because they have a (D) after their name on the ballot.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. So you would rather say have Fred Thompson or Rudy as president
than Hillary...
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RFKJrNews Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I would rather give my vote to...
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and am actively working to get him in this race!
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. That;s the primary...
Not the general...
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RFKJrNews Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
88. If Kennedy enters the race...
he will be our nominee. I have no doubt!
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
24. How many will vote for Clinton because her last name is Clinton?
She is a completely unremarkable senator, and wouldn't have a chance if her last name was Rodham.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
102. I'd be happier if she'd done this without her husband paving the way.
I don't think that the official two-fer thing that the Clintons used in '92 sounds very good now.

If she gets the nomination, I guess that I'll have to hold my nose, like I have done so many times before, but it will be very, very difficult for me to pull the lever for her due to her mushy positions on Iraq and Iran, and her seeming disinterest in policies that have been shown to help the average American.

Economic theory doesn't cut it with me anymore. I want to see policies with results.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. She is not my first choice...
As a matter of fact, she is about my fifth choice...

But she's got big mo workin' and that's hard for anyone to beat...
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. WC, you need your two cents back...

Because you are dead wrong this time and you need a swift kick in the ass.

In fact, the only DU'er here that rambles endlessly about her being a female is Ben David, and he's a he.

This time you are wrong. Take it from us ladies!!!!

Hillary is NOT the Big Dawg!!!
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Anyway, I was talking about the general...
And I still believe that is true...

A lot of women will say they have unfavorable opinions of HRC but will, when they get into the booth, vote for her...

Just as I think a lot of Roman Catholics who would have normally voted for Nixon in 1960, voted for JFK because he was Catholic...
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz





What got into you WC? What a boring ass topic. Very unlike you...





..

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. It's Sunday night...
Give me a break...
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #32
59. It's an interesting point. It seems that in a democracy, especially ours, people
can feel empowered to make a difference by their vote. When you think about it, having the first woman elected President of the United States would be an amazing thing to be a part of. Hillary's campaign is "right on" by tapping into the awesomeness of such a landmark event. I don't think we should deride how people, like the Irish Americans in your example, can be so inspired. When you read about the 1960 campaign, you are struck by how big a deal his being a Catholic was. Once he was elected, the issue of a Catholic president quickly died.

I say all this as an Edwards supporter myself and I don't think we should underestimate Hillary's appeal to women voters.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #59
78. Especially in the General Election...
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Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
73. OMG
My eyes, my eyes! Well, I'm not going to sleep tonight.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. It does seem funny that the US supposed to be the most progressive
country in the world that they haven't elected a woman.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. That plays even more in my hunch...
Hell Pakistan had an elected woman as Prime Minister...
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. I Think Many Liberal Women Feel Betrayed By Hillary
and I doubt they will vote for her in the primary.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Again, I mention Republican women in the OP...
I am not talking about primary votes here...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Oooh, I missed that, sorry
Yeah, there will be a certain number of women who will vote for Hillary, all things being relatively equal.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. Oops, I Missed That Too
I won't even pretend to understand Republican women. Let's hope you are right.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
83. I don't think so: she didn't dump Bill when he was so awful to her.
That stops a lot of women from supporting her - Republican or Democratic.
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shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #35
113. An interesting idea, especially in view of
the number of male Repub. politicians brought low by sexual scandals this past year. Neither Guiliani, McCain, or Fred Thompson have much to be proud of in that arena either. I'd say the over-50 women might view them with a jaundiced eye too, because the "trophy second wife" syndrome can come across as even more of a threat to them. I hope somebody in Hillary's camp is looking at how to make these subtexts work for her in the Gen'l election.

And I'm not a Hillary supporter at this point--I'm more for Edwards if Gore won't get in--but I'll support her over any Republican candidate in a heartbeat.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. Hillary is Death
We supported her (monetarily) in her Senate campaign.

No way, for President.

Might as well paste a bull's-eye between her eyebrows.

She is a target, too soon identified.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. People are voting for Bill
I don't hear any talk of women supporting Hillary because she's a woman. It's more the hope that Bill can calm things down around the world, and Hillary can do whatever Bill did to fix the economy here at home. The more I think of it, the more I don't think very many people are voting for her at all.

And I'll be 50 in a few weeks, my daughter is 23, we're not hearing any interest in her from women. I thought it was older women who want the first woman President before they die.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. It is republican women I am talking about and not the primary....
I thought I mae that pretty clear in the OP...
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. I used to be a fan, but I feel betrayed.
The only candidate that comes close to representing me is Kucinich.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. And I am pretty happy he represents me in Congress...
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. you got it and couple that with "Clinton nostalgia" and you have the main
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 11:32 PM by Bread and Circus
two reasons people support Senator Clinton.


I think it all has to do with her gender and the desire to turn back the clock to the Clinton years.

I don't think it has much to do with her personality, her leadership abilities, or her experience.

As of now, I don't really give a shit because I don't think she would be that bad and will be the best revenge for 8 years of George.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. but but but
oprah is for obama.

well, this non-male is not for hillary. oh, wait, i ain't very feminine. i don't think i really count.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. Does that mean you would vote for a republican in the general...
Because this post was written to explain why HRC has such high unfavofrable numbers, in the GENERAL population, and yet could still win the GENERAL election...
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
51. Not me.
Edwards is my favorite. If it was down to H. Clinton Vs. Republican, then of course I'd vote for her. She's not my ideal, though.

I'd much rather see a fair representation of women in Congress and Senate, and on the Supreme Court.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. This post is about republican women, in the general....
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. But don't underestimate the effect of having a woman elected president
will be! IMHO, more women will be inspired to run for other offices just by her example.

Hillary is certainly flawed which is why I am supporting Edwards, but I understand what the OP is saying. Just the historicity of electing a woman president could certainly encourage non Democratic women (I want to include Independents along with Republicans here) to vote for Hillary.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
54. many men won't vote for her because she is a woman
far, far fewer woman will vote for her because she IS a woman
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
55. I'd love to vote for a woman for president, but
I'd prefer it to be Barbara Boxer.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
56. Not this under 50 y.o. woman - I will NOT ever vote for HRC. nt
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
79. Even if your alternative is Fred or Rudy....
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
57. I am a woman and I will not vote for HRC.
Edited on Mon Sep-10-07 07:43 AM by LWolf
It is time for a woman to lead this country. I hope I get a chance to elect one to the WH before I die. It won't be HRC, though. She is not that woman.

I won't vote for bad news just because it comes with a vagina. Or because of skin color, for that matter.

Edited to add: I'm 47.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
77. But yo would vote for Fred Thomspon in the General if HRC is
the nominee...

Because what I was talking about in the OP was that REPUBLICAN women, in the general, will vote for a woman because it would be the first time they could...
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. Bullshit. Not voting for HRC doesn't equal voting for a repub.
I haven't voted for a republican in many years, and have never voted for a republican, in my 30 years of voting, for state or national office.

Where the fuck do you get Fred Thompson from a refusal to vote for HRC? If you are so worried about where my vote, and others who won't support HRC, will go, work to nominate someone else.

The votes won't go to the republican, whoever that may be. They are the Democrats' to earn or lose.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Then throw your vote away...
Edited on Mon Sep-10-07 08:42 PM by WCGreen
THat's completely up to you...

I was assuming that someone who posts on DU would consider, very strongly, voting for the DEMOCRAT in the November election...

My mistake...

ANd really, you haven't voted for a republican in years or have never voted for a republican...

Whatever...
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. I won't be throwing my vote away.
While I AM A DEMOCRAT, I am not going to throw my vote away on a less than worthy candidate. I will only compromise so far. Party does not come before issues with me. The only purpose to the party is to work to defend the constitution and move the issues of peace and social and economic justice forward.

If I think the Democratic nominee won't do those things...if I think the nation will be getting more non-action, more enabling of a corporate agenda, more of the same bullshit we've seen FROM DEMOCRATS since the 2000 selection, I won't waste a vote on it.

My vote will go to someone who's earned it.

THAT'S NOT THROWING IT AWAY. THAT'S HONORING IT.

THE BEST THING I CAN DO FOR MY PARTY IS HOLD THEM TO A HIGH STANDARD OF ACCOUNTABILITY. OTHERWISE, THEY ARE IRRELEVANT AT BEST, AND HARMFUL AT WORST.

I am no less a Democrat than anyone else for holding that point of view.

And really...JUST WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU INSINUATING WITH THAT LITTLE REMARK?
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. To me, voting for a third party candidate, no matter how altruistic
that may seem, is pretty much useless...

They have no chance of winning...

TO me, that is wasting a vote...

It may make you feel good at the time, but there is too much, at least in my opinion, at stake to take a potential democratic vote out of the mix with absolutly nothing concrete to show for it...

So to me it is wasted, to you it is making a statement...

To each his own...
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. To me, voting for a third party candidate, no matter how altruistic
that may seem, is pretty much useless...

They have no chance of winning...

TO me, that is wasting a vote...

It may make you feel good at the time, but there is too much, at least in my opinion, at stake to take a potential democratic vote out of the mix with absolutly nothing concrete to show for it...

So to me it is wasted, to you it is making a statement...

To each his own...
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. To each his own, is right.
I understand your pov, and that it is different than mine. I respect your right to make your own choice based on your own point of view.

I expect you, and others, to do the same for me. Just because it's different, doesn't mean it's wrong.

To me, a vote for a bad candidate who will not work for what I want when in office is a waste.

To each her own.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
58. I think so too, as it becomes clearer that she has a chance
The last-minute women voters, I believe, will go strong for Clinton. My view is that if you wait till the last few days to decide whom to vote for, you really have only a few criteria left to use to make your choice. And in this election, gender will be an important factor.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
61. Based on my experience in the streets...
...a woman who supports Hillary Clinton is as rare as an albino wombat dancing a jig. I kid you not. 95% of the time, women in all age groups I've talked to that want to share their opinion say they can't stand her.

Bash me...whatever... the support for her in grassroots efforts I've been involved in is just not there.

I'd like to see it to engage in conversation, but the only time I saw a Clinton table was in Milwaukee where the campaign outsourced a booth crew from some marketing company. They had no idea what she stood for...just had slick brochures and stickers to give to people who didn't wear the stuff; they just put the stickers in a bag...

We'll see as time goes on.



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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. well, we all know you're not real street savvy.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #62
68. Yunno...
Can you find anywhere in the country where you've heard about people in the street doing tabling for your candidate? Please...I like rarities. :rofl:

Seriously, since you're getting paid to shill, perhaps you can inform us of grassroots activities for your candidate so we can check it out.

Anywhere?




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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. "albino wombat dancing a jig"
:rofl: I'm going to file that! :hi:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
63. HRC in both her Senate races has done better in the election
than in the polling. She has a "hidden" vote.

Your explanation is as good as any to explain this.


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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Whoa! They must hide those pro-HRC women real GOOD!
Because for me, they are all but non-existent. :shrug:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. what's your point?
:shrug:
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
64. I don't think it's just those under 50
Some women I've talked with, from both parties actually, think this will be the only chance in their lifetime to see a woman President. Those women cannot be discounted.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #64
72. I agree...
Women do like to bitch at and about other women, but many will vote for historic change in the privacy of the voting booth.

(And, before the politically correct police start bitching about it, I do mean to use the verb "bitch.")
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musiclawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
69. For what it's worth
I've had 3 serious girlfriends in the last 5 years. Still talk to all of them in one form or another. All in your demographic. All would love to see a lady president. All of them loathe Hillary Clinton. I'll summarize as follows: One says Hillary is a "phony". The second says Hillary was bought by "big pharma" a long tiome ago and can't be trusted. The last reason I like the best--"people like me despise her because she's trying to be a man instead of trying to be a leader." ....That's my experiecne for what it's worth.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #69
82. But again, if faced with HRC or Fred or Rudy or Mitt, I think all three
of your ex's will vote for HRC...

That really is the point of the OP, to point out behavior in the GENERAL election...
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
71. Sorry I don't know one woman who is voting for her
and I know a lot of democrats, some like Gore like me. Some like Obama and some like Edwards. But I haven't met one who is voting for Hillary. That includes other states than mine (WA) as I have friends all over...I am sure there are people who plan to vote for her but I haven't met any.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. Please read the post...
I was referring to voters in the General Election...

Not the primary...

The General....

And if you can't vote for HRC when the choice is her or Fred or Rudy or Mitt, well....
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
74. It will be a tarnished victory
I think most people can agree that it is highly unlikely that Hillary would be in a position to run for the nation's highest office, if not for her marriage to Bill.

There is also a lot of speculation that despite his affairs, she stayed in the marriage only to further her own political aspirations. I have no idea if that's true or not, but I would prefer to see the first woman president achieve such an accomplishment in her own right, rather than on the coattails of her husband.

And I say this as a woman who falls within the demographic you mentioned.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
80. Woman here. Under 50. Praying she's NOT the nominee.
But, then again, I really don't know who I want for our nominee in the first place.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
84. I'm A Woman... Have A Daughter Under 50 And SHE Won't Vote For
Hillary! She's a professional and doesn't like her at ALL! While I don't like bashing our candidates, she's full of VENOM when Hillary gets mentioned regarding politics!

It could be that this is Florida, but I don't know! I don't support Hillary! Sure, it's about time America elected a woman, but not THIS woman!

Sorry!

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. Remember, this is all about the general, not the primary...
I'm not voting for her in the primary and frankly she is about my fifth choice...

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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
85. so if not Hillary? then who? Condi?
women are more likely to vote democrat and men more likely to vote republican... married women whose husbands are republican and they are democrat, tend to hide their views... they are afraid to let their husband know who they vote for... I have heard it... always no, but they are out there...

will some women vote for the woman just because she is a woman? of course! is that always bad? depends on who you ask... if I am voting for a seat that the candidates did not send out info (judge or such)... I may vote for the woman... its either that or leave blank... it is a toss up...

if you can't decide who you like better and one is a woman... will some vote to get a woman in... sure... to say otherwise is naive... some republican woman may vote for Hillary just to have a woman open the door for other women...

are women tough on women? yes... we are horrible to each other...

will some men not vote for Hillary because she is a woman? sure... but many blue collar men I have spoken to will vote for her...

you could say the same about Obama... some support him for the reason of the color of his skin... would Oprah support him if he were a pretty White man? No... she likes him because he is an attractive articulate Black man... anyone who says otherwise is fooling only themselves...

so if not Hillary? then who? Condi?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
86. in the oppressed people toss-up -- I'd rather elect the first black president.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. If he wins, fine...
But if HRC is the nominee, and you have to admit it looks, as of now, that she will be, then I say many REPUBLICAN women who wouldn't vote for democrat just might vote for HRC...

THat is how I look at the high unfavorables but high electability...
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. In mercurial fashion, she will repel some and entice others.
It's hard to say, really.

In the final analysis, I will enjoy ANY Democrat beating down the GOP Wrecking Machine.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
97. I'm not going to vote for someone based on their gender
While it would be cool to have a female president in my lifetime, if I don't agree with her positions, I won't vote for her.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. Well, wait until the general to see how this is played out...
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
98. Alan Keyes didn't attract alot of black voters....
African-Americans didn't line up behind Keyes, even though he would have been the first black president. In the same vein, I don't think women will be lining up behind Hillary because she's a woman.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #98
105. Keyes wasn't even close to being a viable candidate...
BEside, African Americans typically vote about 89% democrat, so even if he had a few AA's turning his way, it would have been a useless gesture..
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
99. This one won't. I'd hold my nose and vote for her instead of a Republican. nt
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
100. NOW Political Action Committee Proudly Endorses Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for President
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
101. As a woman I find this rather insulting, to say I won't vote for a man
with better qualifications when I can vote for a woman just because.That might be a "man" thing to do but not this woman, we do have brains and believe it or not most of us know how to use them.:spank:
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. Oh jeez...
First, I didn't say all women...

And second, I was referring to REpublican women in the general...

I believe there are enough GOP Women that will vote for her just because she is a woman...

You are like the fiftieth person who didn't really read what I wrote...

:spank:
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
103. If you're referring to the general election...maybe.
As far as the primary is concerned, this 35 yr. old is for Obama.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. I was referring to republcan women in the general...


"I think a lot of Republican women will split their vote with HRC getting the nod for president and then voting the ticket on the way down the ballot..."
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
109. ... not this 42 year old woman ... or any of my friends.
n/t
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. I'm a
34 year old bi-racial woman and I'm not voting for either Obama or Hill in the primary.

Now, if it's Hillary v. Repug - I'm voting for the woman.

If it's Obama v. Repug - I'm voting for the black man.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. I was referring to the general and about some Republican Women
splitting their votes between HRC and the rest of the GOP ticket...
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
111. I used to like Hillary
but not since she started playing buddy-buddy with the Republicans.

She'd not what the country needs now.

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