What DU'ers think about the Moveon ad

[antiimperialist]

I'd like to gauge opinions in the Democratic Underground about today's Moveon.org ad in the New York Times denouncing David Petraeus and his report.
Some have said it was over the top. Some have said it was not.
Please read the ad here http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html if you have not done so.

What did you think of Moveon.org's ad?

[FormerDittoHead]

1. They cry about "political correctness" then get their panties in a bunch at the slightest jab... n/t

[IndianaGreen]

2. CNN Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware said tonight that Petraeus was misleading

The troops Petraeus said that would be rotated next year, were going to be rotated anyway because they served an extended 15-month tour. As to the decline in violence, Ware said that the Pentagon purposely undercounted civilian casualties. As to the Sunni tribal leaders in Anbar, the US was arming them before the surge began as a counter-balance to the Iran dominated Maliki government.

Petraeus showed a lot of charts, without any supporting documentation. A typical dog and pony show that reminded me of the crap we were fed by the military during the Vietnam War.

[antiimperialist]

3. Don't forget to tell Moveone what you think

Whatever your opinion, speak up here:
http://pol.moveon.org/feedback/fb/form.html?tp=suggest

[Glorfindel]

4. I loved it!

It only had one flaw, timing, which gave the 'pukes and the media an excuse NOT to concentrate on Petraeus' lies. On the other hand, they'd have found something else to divert attention from the real issues.

[illinoisprogressive]

5. I support this ad.

[unkachuck]

6. should anyone....

....be confused, Petraeus works for bushco....

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. caveat to my vote...

it was a little over the top, but not by much.

[jmp]

8. He is owed no respect.

He is nothing more than a political appointee like any other.

[Catchawave]

9. I contributed to run that ad.....

me likey :D

[TankLV]

10. I couldn't have written it better...

Way to tame for me, tho...

[Breeze54]

11. They spoke the truth!

;)

[Warren Stupidity]

12. 11 War Party Enablers so far.

Gee what a shock.

[ProSense]

13. Petraeus didn't betrayus, he works for Bush!

Silly ad!

I don't think it should become the focus when everyone is paying attention trying to discern the facts. If 60% of Americans want withdrawal, I want another 1% or more to jump on the bandwagon armed with the facts.

[Mojambo]

14. Hamfisted, but necessary. n/t

[Firespirit]

15. You need a third choice: Idiotic.

Whose brilliant idea was it to make a "clever pun" out of the man's name? Is that really the best they can do? That's a Rush Limbaugh level of dumbness. I was embarrassed for MoveOn when I read that.

[antiimperialist]

16. but you are against the pun, not the ad

The ad contained facts that are irrefutable. Will you condemn the ad because of one pun?

[Firespirit]

17. Yes.

If it's ineffective because it makes the messengers look like fools, then it deserves condemnation.

(From a personal standpoint, I'm sick of hearing about Iraq and I'm tired of it being THE issue of our side. There are issues that are more important.)

[antiimperialist]

19. ...but you focus on the pun and not the facts, which are more important

Aren't they?

[Firespirit]

22. Not for an ad, they're not.

In an advertisement, the point is to get across a message. The message that this ad presents is a low-brow personal attack on the surname of this guy. That's in big text and that's what regular people walk away with.

[ruggerson]

24. Read the word you use: AD

it's an AD. Meaning it's ADVERTISING. Meaning (one hopes) it's trying to sell a product - in this case a set of ideas.

When the main tag line in an AD is a juvenile, idiotic, Republican-like mockery of someone's NAME, it destroys the ENTIRE MESSAGE of the ad.

Changing public opinion requires great skill. THe only thing this ad symbolizes is great stupidity.

[jmp]

18. Wow! So style maters more than substance? (nm)

...

[antiimperialist]

20. I think he's one of those

...voters who choose a candidate based on who they'd love to have a beer with on a Sunday afternoon, ignoring the issues.

[Firespirit]

"She," and that's an ad hominem attack.

I take it you are one of those voters who have a purity checklist and refuse to support anyone who doesn't meet your impossible criteria.

[ruggerson]

27. Never mind

most sane minds agree with you. More angry drivel from the cut off your nose to spite your face crowd.

[Firespirit]

29. Thanks for the support

I'm surprised that my comment was so inflammatory. It seems that some institutions are supposed to be above criticism in here.

[Firespirit]

21. This is politics. Specifically, an AD. Absolutely it does. /nt

[jmp]

23. I think if you are worried about this ad ...

Or any other ad swaying anyone, you can forget it. The news is shaping opinion. Ads like this accomplish nothing other than rallying the base. For that purpose, it will work fine.

[Firespirit]

26. That doesn't say a lot for "the base," then.

Are we really no better than Freepers chortling at "Klintoon," "Hitlery," etc.? I would have hoped we were.

[ruggerson]

30. That's done here with great frequency

someone referred to the former Prez and his wife as "Billary" just today.

And this is someone on a progressive board who claims she is a liberal.

[antiimperialist]

34. Freepers attack innocents. We attack warmongers such as David Petraeus

Big difference.
Petraeus wants to continue a war that's killed thousands of innocent Iraqis, has created a civil war and has killed thousands of Americans.

Bad analogy.

[jmp]

41. I'm sorry if we aren't ...

Up to your standards. :eyes:

[ruggerson]

28. Yeah, it rallied their base plenty

and gave the media an excuse to talk about how this puerile ad riled the Republican base instead of talking about the Democratic response to Petraeus.

Just one more diversion that our side supplied to fuck up our message.

[antiimperialist]

31. So because the media (as usual) overreacts, the ad is inappropriate?

I think nobod has told you that media consolidation has destroyed media objectivity. Corporations sympathetic to the GOP own the media. If we act based on their unfairness we will get nowhere.
Do you disagree with Edwards' haircuts because the media whined about it?

[ruggerson]

32. The public relations war is won or lost

in how you spin the media to get them to report your side of the story in the MANNER in which you want it reported.

How the fuck do you think Bush got us into IRaq in the first place? He bamboozled the media.

This was mind bogglingly stupid. Kindergartners could have done better.

[antiimperialist]

33. Bush did not bamboozled the media. The media bamboozled voters

Very different.

91% of political talk radio content is conservative. Did you know that? Find me a TV network that is as liberal as Fox is conservative?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass]

40. In an ad, yes. This is exactly the point...

[antiimperialist]

35. Conclusion: DU'ers love the Moveon ad

Thanks for voting.

[ProudDad]

36. It didn't go far enough (n/t)

[JNelson6563]

37. I hope there's a lot more on the way

It's high time our side got more in-your-face about stuff. We have stayed quiet for fear of offending for waaaaaaay toooooooo looooooong!!

Julie--sick and tired of spinelessness

[Vidar]

38. Petraeus is cut from the same lying, traitorous cloth as Wesmoreland,

and deserves to be properly vilified.

[Mass]

39. Neither nor. It was not over the top, just poorly done...

Had the had said, for example: "General Petreaus, do't betray us", it would have said the same thing more efficiently!!

[ieoeja]

42. Attacking military officers worked great for McCarthy! n/t

[tigereye]

43. wow, that is some small print, even in the PDF

get back to you after I find my glasses!

[Milo_Bloom]

44. Calling someone names is stupid, period.

If the title had read: General Petreaus, please don't betray us the ad would have worked, but instead it comes off at idiotic name calling and many people won't get beyond the "fatty fat fat fat" part of the ad.

That is highly ineffective advertising and they should know better.

[antiimperialist]

45. What name did Moveon call Petraeus?

?

[DuaneBidoux]

46. My problem with Dem criticism of Petraeus is that Dems in Congress voted for him 100%.

So if he is a dickhead, then they voted for that dickhead and must take some responsibility for that dickhead. The ad gave Pukes good ammo however.

We have to face it that on this mini-battle Bush cleaned our clocks big time.

[NaturalHigh]

47. Other...

haven't seen it.

[BootinUp]

48. In terms of whether it helps or hurts the Dem cause

it was over the top. Political speech works better with a modicum of respect shown as well.

[Apollo11]

49. I agree

It made no sense to question Petraeus' integrity BEFORE he delivered his report to Congress.

And "Betray" is not a word to be used lightly about a senior officer in the US Military.