Thank you Code Pink for doing damage to Democratic candidates in GOP Districts!

[saracat]

I live in a Republican dominated District.My husband was state Senate candidate the last cycle and almost won. He almost won with the help of many Republicans who perceived him as sane, respectable and rational.He will be running again as we hope this will be a Democratic year and we have a Democratic Governor who desperately needs more votes in a GOP dominated legislature.

I worked the polls yesterday for a City election. Many moderate Republicans were talking to me about Code Pink and how revolted they were.They said Democrats just looked stupid and the General conducted himself very well.It was obvious they were reconsidering their opposition to the current GOP.They did not want to be associated with a bunch of crazies.

These Republicans are not people whose only issue is the war.This is local politics.And the perception of the Democratic Party was damaged in my state where we have worked very hard to establish a foothold and achieve victories.We have elected a Governor and Attorney General.We have added two Democratic Congresspersons and are looking forward to adding a 3rd and possible a 4th.

All of this is possible and we were predicting a Democratic takeover of at least one of our legislative houses.This is made possible by moderate Republicans in our GOP state.
But now many are questioning their support of us.In comparison to Code Pink, they think the General did well though most do not currently support the war but could be persuaded to give it more time.

Code Pink created a perception that has "potentially" hurt our candidates with Republicans.Many will respond saying "Who cares?"

Hard working candidates and volunteers in red states care, that is "who cares". Candidates who need the votes of these moderate Republicans to get elected!

I resent the fact that Code Pink and groups like it conduct themselves in a manner that jeopardizes the chances of Democratic candidates and creates an unfair perception of Democratic candidates, especially in red states who are working hard to get elected on all levels of government from school Board to Governor.

Thanks a lot Code Pink for accomplishing nothing and dismissing the constructive efforts of others with contempt.

[damntexdem]

1. Your post has convinced me of something:

to send an extra donation to Code Pink.

[saracat]

3. Really? You want our candidates hurt?

[crikkett]

12. How about some candidates that don't have anything for code pink to attack

[saracat]

55. Our candidates are local and there is nothing for Code Pink to attack.They have

nothing to do with the War at all.Code Pink is perceived as associated with Democrats .They aren't but that is the perception!

[truedelphi]

89. So why are you blaming a fringe group that many of us are now forced

To celebrate because we have no one else speaking for us??
Why blame Code Pink??

If the MSM wasn't a CIA corproate owned Pravda style organization, Code Pink might not have so many supporters.
But when even moderate liberals see only Code Pink as being something to cheer for, then cheer for Code Pink we will.

And what is it with you? Can't you (or your precious candidates) debate these people in such a way to make them see the fact that Code Pink offers those against the War a feeling of some power.


Shouldn't YOU be trying to get to the bottom of the real reasons that the more Republican people in your district should vote for the Democratic candidates there? Or are all the candidates in your area Lieberman-like? And therefore needing to be seen as being on the same page with the Ann Coulters and Rush Limbaughs.

[saracat]

102. Nonsense! The real reasons are local issues and the war is NOT a local issue! Period.

But the Republicans and some of the more conservativce Dens are being distracted from our real issues by having our Democratic candidates being forced to address issues that have do with the office they are running for.A legislative candidate wants to discuss our water problems and instead has to explain he is not a pink crown wearing lunatic?

[truedelphi]

193. That's just the noise that they are offering today as

To why the Dems are not worthy. If it wasn't Code Pink, it would be something else.

In 2004 it was how obnoxious Teresa Heinz Kerry was. Newsweek even went out of its way to label a photo wherein it was obvious that John Kerry was discussing and explaining something to Teresa with a caption that "even in matters of sports, Teresa dictates to John."

If it isn't one thing, it is another.

These people are not getting on the same page with you because they are being preached at to NOT get on the same page with you. So now you are wrapped up in it. And you are believing that if you go riding off on the straw tangent that they are setting up for you that you are somehow helping your cause.

A lot of people don't like Code Pink. You might begin by saying that because some 72% of Americans do not like the War, naturally some of these dissenters are going to get a little out of hand. That 72% of the people is simply TOO LARGE a group of people to control.

Figure out how to reframe. Reagan did it best - his very simple statement of "There you go again!" did more to deflate the earnest Jimmy Carter than all the charts and graphs and policy statements on "Less Government" ever would have garnered him.

I ran for office in Sausalito and if I had had even a little more money would have won. And yes, it was annoying to have discuss my ideas on gun ownership (City Council in Sausalito has nothing to do with gun ownership laws) and also abortion rights (again being on City COuncil is not going to ever allow you to have any say on abortion one way or the other) But if a future constituent wanted my views on those things, I did the best I could to explain my position. (While adding how little my position on those matters actually mattered.)

Reframe Reframe Reframe. Knock on doors, stand on street corners, hold events, and SMILE WAVE SMILE.

And Good Luck!

If they keep mentioning Code Pink, say with a Big Smile, I have some news for you, The concerns you and I face about the water issues are far more important than my views on Code Pink. I'm sure you are aware that if we don't solve Problem X by attempting to do Action Y, then BLAH BLAH BLAH

[saracat]

197. Thank you what a very nice and logical post.You are correct.

I am just venting because everyone is working do hard and this is so unnecessary!It would have been a lot easier if the local media was not all over this! We can talk to some face to face but this is a huge district and it is hard to deflect the an mount of coverage they got. I am hoping they forget about this soon!

[truedelphi]

202. Really it's okay - As someone who once ran for office I understand the need to vent

I would never sell my soul for a buck or two (or a million!!) but towards the end of the campaign I would have sold my soul and those of everyone I knew for just an hour of sleep!

So please feel free to vent.

And the local media is so often on the side of the RIGHT! Even in liberal Marin County, all we have is the "Independent Urinal" that constantly takes the side of the conservative candidates. I was labelled "a one issue candidate" because of my stance on getting pesticides out of the parks, etc.

Only AFTER the election did the newspaper call me and say, "Gosh we are sorry - it never occurred to us that your opponent had NO issues."

[Justice]

411. so the war is not a real issue?

Your post suggests you think that.

[slampoet]

415. And that is why you so-called Democrats are loosing.

Face facts. This is just hogwash.

Go home and work on something besides smearing an activist group to run on.


War is local. Every small county in America knows that and if you are saying different you're just annother politician who doesn't know the cost of bread or milk.

Your candidate is loosing because there aren't a real democrat.

Try communicating with your constituents for once instead of trying to order other people around to do things for you.

[crikkett]

120. well that's what I get for skimming

I am not a speed reader after all.
sorry

[Chulanowa]

265. So because some dim people associate them with Democrats...

You're going to attack Code Pink and blame them for the weaknesses of your candidates? What, is it too hard to talk sense to these "moderates" or do you just enjoy kissing ass and kowtowing to 'em too much to contradict?

[damntexdem]

29. Guess what: the peace movement, and the citizenry, do not exist to help Dems.

The Democratic Party should exist to help the citizenry, including reflecting their desire for peace. The peace movement must serve its own ends, and ally with Dem politicians ONLY if the latter serve those ends. The citizenry must seek their own ends, and vote for Dems ONLY if they see the Democratic Party as serving those ends. Code Pink must undertake its own actions, implement its own strategy, to seek its ends. If some Democratic politician doesn't like that, or worries about being hurt politically by that, then too damn bad.

Get it: Democratic Party politics is a means to an end, not an end in itself, other than for careerist politicians. We don't need any ends/means inversions, especially about some thing as important as the Iraq War.

[saracat]

44. But it should NOT exist to harm people who hzve NOTHING to do with the war!

[redqueen]

235. Do you HONESTLY think that was their goal?

Jesus christ... you're blaming code pink because the mighty wurlitzer works on it's idotic followers.

[saracat]

236. Nope.I do not think Code Pink thinks about the consequences of their actions. They just do

[redqueen]

242. Neither does Ann Coulter, or Sean Hannity...

but I don't see any repukes getting all up in arms over the bullshit they spew.

Why do you think that is?

[AZBlue]

296. Huh? Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity further the GOP agenda, they don't hurt it.

They increase the Republicans' popularity, not decrease it. Your argument doesn't make much sense.

[redqueen]

340. It only makes no sense to you because of your perspective.

The republicans for integrity people... that tiny little group with a yahoo group and a myspace page... THEY think people hurt the cause. Just as you and a few others think Code Pink hurts the Dem cause / decreases their popularity.

[AZBlue]

297. Ding, ding, ding!

That's it in a nutshell. I agree with their what, I disagree with their how.

[JVS]

391. WOW! Total disconnect. What the hell do you think elected officials' jobs are?

[coalition_unwilling]

155. Thank you. As someone who lives in war pig Jane Harman's district,

I gag at the thought of ever pulling the lever for her again. Same goes for war pig Dianne Feinstein. The Dem Party are imperialists whose iron fist is carried inside a velvet glove, as opposed to the Repukes whose imperialism is simply an iron fist. But imperialism is imperialism, no matter which party practices it.

[alstephenson]

58. If all it takes to "hurt our candidates" is a couple gals in pink tiaras, so be it.

Should Code Pink be denied their freedom of speech? So you disagree with them, what's your point? What would you do about it? Ask them "pretty please" don't make such a big deal out of the war, you're embarrassing us....Sheesh.

[saracat]

85. I disgaree with their methods and I was sickened to find myself having

to defend our candidates on election night because of Code Pinks display!

[VLC]

98. You fell for the distraction!!!

You should have turned the conversation around to REAL issues.

[saracat]

103. I did.I shouldn't have to!

[VLC]

117. You can control your own behavior.

And probably a conversation too.

This is not a new concept. I'm sure there are whole books written on the topic.

When they start spouting ignorant BS about Code Pink, you say something like, "But our local candidates are active on THESE issues... " and then talk about whatever you want to talk about. You don't have to get sucked into talking about Code Pink.

[saracat]

128. Actually I did but what about all those that I am not going to be able to talk to? Hmm.

This was carried on every local newscast.Perception becomes reality and once it is formed it is difficult to change.

[VLC]

130. What was carried?

Code Pink, or people saying that they were gonna vote Republican because of Code Pink?

[saracat]

132. The Code Pink Disruption! That was why people were talking about it!

[Cha]

131. Logical advice...but

then no one can BLAME CODE PINK for the decline of the Universe..and I don't think the hyperbole is that strong here.

[VLC]

135. Oh my goodness

If I had known Code Pink was to blame... but then, I'm still trying hard to work up the appropriate amount of hatred for Nader and people who voted for Nader.

[Cha]

141. At least they didn't vote

for bush. ;)

[VLC]

149. Apparently, it's the same thing ;-)

[cannabis_flower]

129. Whaaaaa...

You should have turned the conversation around to REAL issues.


saracat: I did.I shouldn't have to!

Yes, you should have to...

[saracat]

143. I should have not have to deal with the distraction of CP before we address the issues!

[Cronus Protagonist]

100. Your statement claims facts not in evidence

Not that you care about that, but others might. There is not a shred of evidence that Code Pink did a single iota of damage to any candidate's chance. Code Pink is not the Democratic party, and can be denounced by Democratic candidates in close districts, thereby garnering even MORE soft Republican votes. It is easily conceivable that Code Pink has helped slim-margin states by providing a counterfoil from which a Democratic candidate can claim the middle ground.

[saracat]

203. I said "potential " damage.Some elections are yet to be!

[Tellurian]

23. Exactly...The ridicule factor here hurts Democrats, providing fodder for RW denigration..

Absolutely effen obnoxious stupidity!

[Cha]

133. Ye-ah, I would expect

hil-lary supporters to say no less.

[paulk]

303. hillary is part of this conversation?

where did that come from?

[ima_sinnic]

419. from post 23 (nt)

[antiimperialist]

26. I agree. Don't piss off conservatives, please!

Let's be nice, ok? I'm kind of scare of their big mouth and angry rhetoric.

[LittleClarkie]

198. She's not talking about Conservatives. She's talking about Moderates

The kind of folks who might have had "Republican for Kerry" on their bumper during the last presidential election.

[saracat]

218. Thank you.Absolutely right.

[endarkenment]

227. All four of them.

"Republican for Kerry"?

Had Ms Cat been concerned about independent voters she might have had a point. As it is she is very concerned about how Republican voters are reacting. So what? They don't vote Democratic. The swing voters are independent voters, not party affiliated voters. Ms. Cat's post was a bunch of bullshit.

[saracat]

237. Most Indies in My state are Republican and most are moderates.They are the same!

[endarkenment]

348. Obviously we have a terminology issue.

An independent voter is neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

[LittleClarkie]

244. Oh, moderate Republicans that are teetering on the edge of their party do

And there were enough of them for the Kerry campaign to print up bumper stickers for them. In fact, I used to hang out at the Republican for Kerry yahoo group before I found this place.

Their mascot was Teddy Roosevelt.

[AZBlue]

299. You know not what you talk about.

Arizona is a horribly Repubican state - but Kerry almost took it last election and we have a Dem governor who's very respected. The red-blue lines aren't solid here in AZ.

[saracat]

320. Thank you AZBlue. You are correct.

[Cha]

125. Good! If I had some extra fucking

money I would send it to them, too.

[saracat]

145. Well, you won't be getting any extra money soon either if we don't elect Dems locally!

[Cha]

159. It's not the Dems fault

I don't have any extra money.

[OHdem10]

180. I am sorry, but how many Republicans are we trying

to impress?????? They criticise Dems no matter what.

I do think Code Pink would be more impactful if they
dressed more appropriately when in Congress.

[proud2BlibKansan]

286. Yeah me too

LOL!

GMTA

[sandnsea]

2. Well we're stuck with it, so I also think

we need to throw that back in their face and remind them that we've been listening to Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter for a good ten years and they aren't even doing anything near as honorable as trying to end an illegal war that we were lied into.

[saracat]

8. But these are not the kind of people that listen to Limbaugh or Coulter!

[sandnsea]

25. It's their party, they need to own them

If they're going to get cranky about Code Pink, they need to be challenged on the nut fringe in their own party.

This goes back to the swift boats. Stand together or fall separately. Making their voices heard because the media won't is a far different thing than calling Edwards a fag or mocking someone's disability. We've got to start challenging these muddling Republicans and Independents, they aren't thinking it all through.

[immoderate]

99. Similarly, we're not all Code Pink...

The Code Pink thing is a diversion. Are your local people members? Get your Republican friends to think. Can they be as intelligent as you say and fall for this?

--IMM

[Downtown Hound]

4. Funny you should say this

given that the GOP presidential candidates are slipping in almost every poll. Must be Code Pink's fault! Oh wait, that's a good thing isn't it?

[saracat]

11. I am talking about Local candidates in red states! And it was a bad

reflection on them.They associate the Dems with Code Pink!

[Downtown Hound]

14. You're just not going to get over this are you?

Oh well, stay angry if it's what you want.

:hi:

[saracat]

45. No.Because I saw good people being hurt by this yesterday!

Peoplre who have nothing to do with the War, and will never have anything to do with it and just want to serve their LOCAL communities!

[alstephenson]

65. Maybe they SHOULD have something to do with the war....

I mean, these candidates have NO POSITION on the war??? WTF??? Any candidate I vote for, local or national, will have a position on the war - and it will be: END THE WAR NOW, BRING THE TROOPS HOME.

[saracat]

71. They have positions but that is not relevent to the position they seek!

[harun]

32. I don't see how Code Pink is our problem (n/t)

[damntexdem]

I urge everyone on the board to contribute to Code Pink.

I live in a red district of a red state, and I support Democratic challengers -- but they need to MEAN something. I could care less about some careerist pol who feels hurt by citizens expressing their political voices.

[loudsue]

107. Bingo! Someone else's politics of "fear" isn't going to persuade me

to put down those who are willing to speak out against the war. And I don't appreciate those supposed democrats who are spewing the message of the DLC to try to silence those of us who actually CARE about this country.

:kick:

[endarkenment]

230. So national polling data indicates that Republicans are in deep trouble

all across the nation, including the red states, but somehow you know better and Code Pink is going to lose us the election because Republican voters are going to vote Republican?

Republican voters vote Republican. That is the Republican base. Democratic voters vote Democratic. That is the Democratic base. The base numbers on either side change, but only by small amounts, in any given election. The swing voters are independent voters, they are neither Republican voters nor Democratic voters. To win elections you have to take a majority of the independent voters, convince the other party's voters to stay home, and encourage your party voters to get themselves to the polls. Trying to win the other party's base is a losing strategy frequently advocated by DLC-type neoliberal Democratic consultants who are justifying rightwing policies by pretending that advocating these policies will win elections by appealing to the other party's base.

[saracat]

239. Our Democratic base is not enough to win in my state even if they all voted which they don't.

We need other votes to win.Simple math.And Republicans vote.But you know best I am sure:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

264. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

275. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

289. Kind of a long way to go to call her a liar

Why not just come out and say it? Or did you think the mods wouldn't know what "fraudulent misrepresentation" means.

[valerief]

5. Code Pink should be "in the pink" with all progressives. nt

[ShortnFiery]

6. Deja vu?!? Haven't we been through this "fandango" a couple of days ago? nt

[VLC]

273. by the same original poster, no less

[rox63]

7. Code Pink is NOT the Democratic Party

In fact, they've been protesting several Dem Congresscritters recently. Sometimes their goals intersect with those of the more progressive Dems. But they never have and never will be a representative of the Democratic Party.

[saracat]

9. That is what I try to explain.

[ShortnFiery]

15. But they are an Anti-war voice. I despise all warmongering candidates.

Just because they may choose to have a D behind their name does not make them either "democratic" nor SANE (not wish to bring about the rapture via endless wars).

GOD BLESS CODE PINK. Like the poster above me, I think I'll send them a donation for they are true American Patriots :patriot:, unlike our present GUTLESS Democratic Leadership in Congress. May all the Warmongering Democrats be kicked out by Anti-War Democratic Challengers. ;)

[saracat]

43. What is is about the word LOCAL that some do not understand?

I am talking about School Board and City Council and Legislatures seata .That has NOTHING to do with IRAQ ! Yet these candidates are being dissed for the actions of a fringe group!

[CrispyQ]

95. Why are you holding these people's ignorance against Code Pink?

Maybe you should try to educate these people rather than criticize an organization that is trying to wake people up to the horror that is the Iraq war.

http://www.codepink4peace.org/index.php

[saracat]

106. Why should I have to bother correcting a perception Code Pink created?

Don''t some get this distracts from relevant local issues?There is only so much time and Code Pink issues eat away at our real state issues.

[CrispyQ]

142. Code Pink did not create these misperceptions,

the morans who don't educate themselves do. So your job is going to be harder & longer than you would like -- don't blame Code Pink for that.

:eyes:

[saracat]

150. Excuse me but every Code Pinker I know and I know many is a Dem and they frequently

attend our events in full regalia.

[VLC]

154. If you mean your husband's campaigning events, I'm sure your Code Pink friends would be interested

to know their support is not appreciated.

[saracat]

164. Not an issue!

[CrispyQ]

175. It's their right to do so.

Sorry you don't like their message or their tactics, but we're the Democratic party -- the party of diversity, not uniformity.

For the amount of time you've spent on this thread you could have sent out several emails, denouncing Code Pink to all those republicans, who you are so certain would vote Democratic, except for that damned Code Pink organization! :crazy:

Good luck to you. ;)

[cannabis_flower]

179. Actually...

I know some Code Pink people and some of them are in the Green Party.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

250. Because the Republicanites will always find something

If Code Pink hadn't had their little demonstration, the Republican voters would have razzed you about John Edwards' house.

If you can't deal with the distractions that the Republicanites throw out, then maybe you need to go to Campaign School.

How about, "Well they're trying to stop this war, and more power to them. Now about that sewer line extension..."

[proud2BlibKansan]

290. Oh that's just complete bullshit

What a load of horsepucky. The majority of Americans don't even know what the Downing Street Minutes are! Do you realize how many Americans believe Saddam was responsible for 9/11?

And you want us to believe that a bunch of republicans in a red state are mad at Code Pink and that's why Democrats aren't winning school board elections???? Shit, most Democrats don't even know who Code Pink is, I doubt republicans in local races in your unnamed red state have even heard of them.

This is without a doubt one of the most ridiculous rants I have ever read on DU. Congratulations.

[saracat]

315. Yes.The Election Board and the moderate repugs who had supported

some of our Democratic Non partisan candidates were all aware of Code Pink and were talking about them! All our local news ran quite a bit of coverage about the Petraues Hearing and featured Code Pink prominently.Our local NPR even did a mention of them. They knew who they were.Yes.

[niceypoo]

316. Three words...

borderline personality disorder.

[LittleClarkie]

318. Are you calling her a liar?

Are you saying that she made it up?

[Major Hogwash]

153. Code Pink has many members who are Democrats.

And they protested those Democrats because they were ones who voted to support the war by passing more funding for the war.
The American way.

Just because they protested some Democrats does not mean their members are any less Democratic or progressive or liberal or patriotic or American than anyone else.

Code Pink was the only group to protest the war in Idaho during the 2004 election.

You can bet your ass there aren't too many Republicans that are Code Pink members.

[Enrique]

10. did your republican friends see Ike Skelton threaten to prosecute them?

did you point that out to them?

[ShortnFiery]

19. Yes, that was Oh, so, AUTHORITARIAN of him ... what a doll!

:eyes:

[saracat]

91. Do you seriously think the average voter knows that Skelton is a Dem? Another thing that distracts

the conversation from relevant local issues!

[proud2BlibKansan]

293. Bingo!! Yet you expect US to believe your local repukes know all about Code Pink!!

[John Q. Citizen]

13. If your husband was smart, he would have run on an anti-code pink platform.

I hear it's the number one issue in your county.

By the way, did you read this? http://www.spiritualprogressives.org/article.php?story=20070907191110516

[iconocrastic]

22. Damn the iceburgs, full speed ahead

Everybody must be crushed if they disagree with us.

LOL

[saracat]

172. That actually makes a kind of sense.As for the article.It was Blah!blah! blah!!

[John Q. Citizen]

247. Don't like the comments of our Dem congress folks, eh?

Oh well, I'm not all that surprised.

[glowing]

16. Code Pink is not Democratic... It is a non-profit group that wants to

end the war. If everyone wants to put them in the democratic party, that's their own damn fault. Someone needs to yell at these lying assholes. Everyone else is screaming at their t.v.'s the same damn shit.

[HereSince1628]

17. Bawk, duc, duc, duc Bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwk!

That's just DLC brand chickenshit. ANYTHING voters do frightens the candidates.

[KurtNYC]

104. Yes. Candidates with cloudy middle of the road stances fear

being forced to take a stand.

I am surprised by the general amount of friendly fire directed at:
- Cindy Sheehan
- MoveOn
- Code Pink
- Ralph Nader

If anyone's strategy relies on shutting up those groups and people then it is doomed by design. And un-democratic.

[bluestateguy]

18. And John Kerry's "botched joke" last fall was supposedly going to ruin our chances in the election

My only objection to Code Pink was the bizarre costumes. Can't they wear regular clothes when they do these things?

[ShortnFiery]

24. The same criticism was leveled at the participants of "The Boston Tea Party"

Non-violent resistance is TO GET ATTENTION - by it's very nature. :shrug:

[onenote]

46. a history lesson about the Boston Tea Party

While the Boston Tea Party itself was criticized (by Benjamin Franklin among others), it wasn't because of their outragous costumes. In fact, the tale that the Boston Tea Party participants dressed up as Indians is something of a myth. According to eyewitnesses and participants, “Indian dress” constituted being clothed in blankets or ragged clothing and smearing their faces with grease and lampblack or soot. Many of the men carried hatchets in order to be able to break open the chests of tea. The men were attempting to disguise their identities more than resemble Mohawk Indians.

In other words, they weren't trying to draw attention to themselves by dressing the way they did.

I also suggest you study up on the Clean for Gene movement in 1968. It will provide further insight why dressing in pink tutus and tiaras isn't effective politics.

[FredScuttle]

56. Clean for Gene was effective

right up until the time he lost the nomination.

And comparing Code Pink to Clean for Gene is baffling. Which establishment anti-war candidate is Code Pink campaigning for?

[onenote]

62. the comparison is valid

Code Pink is "campaigning" for a position -- the antiwar position.

Gene McCarthy was campaigning for a position -- the antiwar position. But McCarthy and his supporters knew that to draw people to their position, they needed to be able to communicate effectively and that requires presenting oneself as someone with a serious message, not as a clown.

[FredScuttle]

72. plus it was 1968

and Gene McCarthy was campaigning for one thing - Gene McCarthy (for President). He was following Wayne Morse in speaking out against the war. Yes, he was the "anti-war" candidate because he was recruited to do so. Once RFK saw that LBJ was vulnerable, he got into the race and McCarthy was finished.

I ask again...how is McCarthy's 1968 Presidential Campaign, where his volunteers "cleaned up" so as not to negatively influence voters' attitude towards their candidate similar to Code Pink's campaign, which is to put pressure on Congress to end the war?

[onenote]

74. their message was the same -- "end the war"

Same goal -- convince people to support that message.

[FredScuttle]

80. but your comparison is ridiculous

it's not a apples-to-apples equation. Clean for Gene volunteers were out campaigning for a CANDIDATE. Code Pink's protests aren't for any candidate, but rather to bring attention and pressure on Congress to withdraw from Iraq, or at least cut of the funding.

[onenote]

84. not in the slightest -its the message that matters

Whether its a campaign for a candidate or for legislative action by Congress,what matters is the message. Why vote for McCarthy -- because he'll end the war. Why push on Congress? To get them to end the war.

THe message is the same -- and the goal is the same -- convince people that they should be taking action that will end the war.

[ShortnFiery]

68. Too bizarro! But their costumes were bizarre none the less.

It's unfortunate that centrists always WANT us liberals to vote for their pablum "triangulating" candidates, yet when they are elected we are treated like scum. :grr:

Well, this time the DLC can pound sand - I will not vote for another corporatist warmonger, regardless of party.

Yes, tell the good folks within the civil rights movement and the millions of people who went out in the streets to protest the Vietnam War in those "ridiculous" Afros and platforms, that they didn't matter.

History revision of the DLC crones?

[onenote]

90. You must have attended different protests than I did

Sure there were folks dressed up at the marches I attended in the 60s. But they were a relatively small portion (and in many respects were wearing what they wore generally -- very few put on a costume). In other words, to the extent that there were platform heels and afros at the marches, those people were wearing what they ordinarily wore.




I don't know about you, but I don't typically see people in pink tutus and tiaras.

[ShortnFiery]

109. Those type of "off the cuff" value judgments reminds me of the conservatives during

the 60s and 70s. I bet if you were "your age THEN" you'd also be claiming that Rock and Roll is the Devil's music? :wow: Do you also criticize a woman who wears dangling ear-rings before 6 PM? :crazy: Where does it end with those of you who wish to DICTATE what is and is not appropriate?

[onenote]

114. okay, now you're just blathering

What are you talking about. You suggested that protesters in the 60s dressed outrageously. I pointed out that isn't true and that most protesters dressed the way they dressed every other day of the week.

Your response is just foaming at the mouth. I don't get it.

And I'm not dictating what is or isn't appropriate, its pointing out what is and isn't effective. I'm curious (not that I expect you to answer), but do you honestly think that if the antiwar folks that campaigned for Gene McCarthy had gone door to door wearing pink tutus and tiaras that they would have been as effective in getting people to support their cause -- which was ending the war?

[ShortnFiery]

118. That's just plain SAD. You've lost the argument, now deal with it. nt

[onenote]

126. I'll take that as a concession that you have no response. Thanks.

[Marrah_G]

397. Another bit of history

The Masonic Grand lodge in Boston has the minutes of their meeting from the night of the Tea Party. It consists of a big T on the page and that is all. Incidentally their lodge was also the same tavern the revolution was "born" in (for lack of a better phrase).

[VLC]

37. What are "regular clothes"?

Isn't that the same as saying they should "behave normally"?

It's time we stopped judging people for their clothes and other non-issues. Basically you just criticized Code Pink the same way the media criticized Hillary for showing cleavage or Kucinich for being short.

I guess we should all vote for the tall candidates. They look normal.

[onenote]

49. People who want to be effective in the art of politics should do what it takes to be effective

Clean for Gene, for example. (If you don't know what I'm referring to, it may explain your post).

[FredScuttle]

53. Yes, effective

except Gene McCarthy fucking lost.

[bluestateguy]

59. Not exactly. LBJ lost.

The Clean for Gene movement was in New Hampshire prior to the 1968 Democratic primary. Young people supporting McCarthy were told to shave their beards, cut their hair and bathe every day before hitting the pavement to walk precincts for their candidate. Young men were expected to dress in slacks and nice shirts. Ladies, in dresses. McCarthy got 42% of the vote to 49% for LBJ, a remarkable feat against an incumbent president. LBJ dropped out a month later.

[onenote]

60. Gene McCarthy won the New Hampshire primary, basically forcing LBJ out of the race

He went on to win primaries in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Connecticut and Oregon. His campaign also set the stage for Bobby Kennedy's entry into the race as an antiwar candidate. If he hadn't been assasinated, Kennedy probably would've been the nominee. But while McCarthy didn't get then nomination, his campaign, and the work of the thousands of Clean for Gene campaigners, did more to make being against the war a mainstream position than any of the antics of the yippees (pigasus for president, dropping dollars on the NY Stock Exchange).

McCarthy and the Clean for Gene campaign were effective, as anyone who participated in it can tell you.

[FredScuttle]

63. So how is this comparable to Code Pink?

n/t

[onenote]

64. see post #62

[FredScuttle]

73. see post #63

n/t

[VLC]

61. People who judge others on anything but their messages and actions

are the real problem.

[onenote]

66. maybe so, but you can ignore the problem and be ineffective or work with reality

McCarthy was smart enough to work with reality. CodePink isn't that smart, apparently.

[VLC]

67. Whose reality is that?

Code Pink gets a lot of support. People who are turned off by costumes probably wouldn't have supported their message anyway.

[onenote]

69. so, you think that all the people who supported McCarthy

would have supported him just as much if the folks campaigning for him door to door had dressed in pink tutus and tiaras.

Right.

[VLC]

75. Wasn't that about the time that Elvis was only shown from the waist up and

the Beatles' haircuts were scandalous?

[onenote]

76. prize for non sequitur, irrelevant, and incomprehensible response

Unless, of course, where you live, people commonly walk around wearing pink tutus and tiaras. Which is possible I suppose.

[VLC]

86. OK I'll spell it out for you: THAT WAS A DIFFERENT TIME

Things that were scandalous then are not now.

Personally I'd pay more attention to someone in a tutu and tiara than a suit. Other people think like you. That's why it's good to have a variety of people giving the message in a variety of ways. That way there's someone with our message to appeal to anyone who will listen.

I'll support the Code Pink way and I'll support guys in suits too, but not at the expense of each other. Both are necessary.

[onenote]

94. its not whether they are "scandalous"

Wearing a beard or having long hair in 1968 wasn't "scandalous". CodePink isn't threatening anyone by wearing silly clothes, they are just undermining their effectiveness at conveying a serious message. Sorry that reality bites.

[VLC]

96. Well, we don't agree.

That's fine.

[FredScuttle]

77. Which candidate is Code Pink supporting again?

n/t

[onenote]

81. keep trying. To paraphrase a successful campaign, its the message stupid.

The message that CodePink's campaign is trying to convey is "end the war"
The message that McCarthy's campaign was trying to convey was "end the war."

[FredScuttle]

224. I'll keep trying until you answer my question

I didn't ask how the messages of each campaign were similar...I asked how is a political campaign for a single candidate the same as a protest campaign that doesn't endorse any candidate?

[onenote]

399. I've answered. You just don't like the answer

The answer is that what makes a political campaign for a single candidate the same as a protest campaign that doesn't endorse any candidate is that in the case of the Clean for Gene movement and CodePInk, the goal and message is the same -- opposition to a unnecessary, stupid war.

[movonne]

20. What is your problem with code pink??? and as far as the red

states getting dems elected, is that they turn out to be blue dogs and that is the same as a repug...I'm sick and tired of pussy footing around these repug nuts to get them to vote for a dem...either they will vote against their own interests and live with it..

[LittleClarkie]

219. So you're saying Saracat's husband is a blue dog?

You can't know that from what she's said. She's said that the Republicans trust him as being sane.

Perhaps he's just a progressive to moderate Dem who wouldn't be caught dead in a tiara.

[Vickers]

21. Who cares?

Oh wait, you predicted we would say that. :eyes:

Why do you hate the 1st Amendment?

[DaveJ]

27. If your district wasn't filled with warmongers then this wouldn't be a problem.

n/t

[saracat]

48. So we should just not bother to run any candidates in red areas?

That is really progressive.Lets just let them have everything!

[DaveJ]

87. What's the difference

If the only way to be an elected Democrat is to support war? I think your district just isn't ready to be progressive. There will always be areas that have a relatively high population of lunatics. You can't really blame normal peaceful citizens for pushing already deranged people over the edge.

[saracat]

105. Who is supporting war>? All the candidates I know are against it.But it is not a LOCAL issue.

water and education police, and growth are local issues

[stimbox]

146. Well then....

Address the LOCAL issues and don't blame Code Pink for the stupidity of your neighbors.

[saracat]

166. I don't blame Code Pink for the stupidity of my neighbors! I blame Code Pink

for making it uncessisarily difficult for local Democratic candidates to get elected/I object to their feeding the RW whisper machine!

[stimbox]

304. Why do you fall for the RW whisper machine?

You're smarter than that saracat.

Code Pink has nothing to do with your local Dems not getting elected and you know it.

Are you going to blame MoveOn too?

[LittleClarkie]

216. Nice assumption there

One can be against the war and still think that the Code Pink protest was dorky.

[MadHound]

28. I'm sorry, but if you, your husband and local Democratic community

Can't establish the difference between the Democratic party and Code Pink, a group with whom there is no connection, and create the seperation needed for you to win, then frankly you're not very good at this political process.

Code Pink has absolutely no ties to Democrats and are free to speak as they please(as are we all). Frankly I welcome the input of Code Pink, since they are one of the few groups out there who is gathering any sort of attention on the anti-war front. We've tried playing nice and fair and gee, what has it gotten us? The war kicked down the road for four years and tens of thousands of dead, a country destroyed and our own country on the verge of collapse. Somebody needs to be upset and up front about this, for the Dems certainly aren't doing so, rather quite the contrary.

Again, if you can't differentiate between the Dems and Code Pink, then you probably should give up politics, for it is apparent that you're lacking in good communication skills.

[saracat]

70. My husband happens to be against the war.He has walked in anti war protests but he

and all our other locals should not be being placed in this position by the foolishness of Code Pinks display.Now we are forced to explain that not all antiwar Dems are idiots and clowns!Code Pink may not be Dems but the perception is that they are!

I communicate very well,but Code Pink changes the subject of our local conversation from important issues such as land conservation and teacher salaries and reduces it to"Did you see those idiots". And I have to waste campaign time explaining Code Pink and an anti war stance, when neither are relevant to local elections.
And damn straight that angers me.

[MadHound]

93. And again I say, if you're having difficulty seperating yourself, your husband and the Dems

From Code Pink then you're not doing a very effective job of campaigning and should perhaps consider getting out of politics. I live in a very red area myself, and these sorts of things really don't take much time or effort, for most people, both Dem and 'Pug, can easily tell the difference between a political party and an anti-war group.

Sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but frankly I find your arguements and ranting out of line. Code Pink is one of the few groups who are out front actually bringing attention to the problem and trying to be part of the solution while the Dems are simply mouthing pious platitudes and continuing to fund the war. Everybody has the right to free speech, and your anger at Code Pink is misplaced. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here, and you should just let it go.

Oh, and this war. If effects everybody, at every level, local, state and national. Perhaps you should use it as a jumping off point for explaining why gas prices are so high, or why your local, state and national economy is in the toilet. Hell, I found that a very effective tactic last fall in swinging over conservative voters:shrug:

[saracat]

121. I find your comments out of line.Code Pink and many of their ilk need to be the ones

that "get out of politics".We will win in spite of these people but they make it just a bit more difficult and that is a shame.

I am not having difficulty separating either myself or my husband from Code Pink.I just resent the time and effort it takes because they have now geared up the RW whisper machine and that forces us to have to deal with something we otherwise wouldn't have to. As a successful political veteran, it appears to me you know little about politics or campaigning.

[MadHound]

144. Whoops, there it is! That one word that gives your entire mindset away

"Ilk" Such a despicable term it is, consiging people to a sub human status, one where they don't have any rights and can be dismissed out of hand. A hateful word from a hateful mind.

So let me ask you this, what the fuck have you done to stop the war? Have you marched, screamed, shouted, put yourself on the line to bring the troops home? Somehow I doubt it, otherwise you wouldn't referring to your those who are working their asses off as "ilk" You wouldn't dehumanize people that way. Have you no shame, or is all about you and your husband and your precious political career.

Fuck that! People are dying pal, don't you fucking get it? And frankly being nice and meek and mild isn't going to get them home. Those who play by Marquis of Queensbery rules never accomplish what needs to be done, not during the American Revolution, not during the labor wars, not during Vietnam. If you can't deal with that, well TS, deal anyway. I've got a cousin and a couple of good buddies getting their asses shot at right now because Dems and people like you refuse to do what it takes to get them home. You folks want some sort of nice, polite anti-war movement where we simper and smile and say please and thank you, all the while people are dying and Bush is laughing. Fuck that!

Like I said, if you can't make this sort of differentiation between yourselves and Code Pink, then get the hell out of politics, you don't belong. If you want to shut down other peoples' free speech rights, especially when we're fighting to end this war(which apparently the Dems refuse to do), then too damn bad.

Oh, and just for your own information, I've been in politics from the bottom to state campaign director over a period of time that spans over thirty years, and frankly in all of my experience, whiny candidates don't win, so suck it up and deal with it and stop whining about people exercising their First Amendment rights.

[saracat]

156. This is really pissing me off.My anti war credentials are better than most.

I marched on DC in 1969 when I was just 13! I was out marching and protesting this war since before Cindy Sheehan and I actually marched right beside her before she became a turncoat!

Who the hell are some to consider people who wear pink tutus and tiaras more bona fide than those of us who disapprove of them?

You have the right to love Code Pink.I have the right to express my disapproval for what they do.My political experience is more than equal to yours, and we disagree.
Why do some drag this war into everything?

For me, while I oppose the war, there are other issue I care about.I care about reproductive rights, I care about clean water, and air. I care about controlling growth.I care about my local community.I do not have tunnel vision.
~
I have NEVER stated that Code Pink should not speak! I said I do not like the manner in which they present themselves!

I have also never stated that we should be "meek, or nice, or mild".In fact I have often stated the opposite! But one can be forceful without being ridiculous!

I do not think the one that needs to be out of politics is me!

[sufrommich]

171. I'm with you

although I couldn't care less about Code Pink,if some of their cheerleaders here are any indication of their intellectual depth and understanding of how the political process works,let them speak for themselves and prove your point .

[MadHound]

174. Again, your own word choice betrays you

"Why do some drag this war into everything? " If you don't see the myriad of connections between this war and everything else going on in our government and society, then all of those years of anti-war protests did you absolutely no good. Gee, what does it take for clean water? Both the poltical will and the money. Can't have the money when it's being spent on the war.

And the fact that you consider Cindy a turncoat just goes to show that you place politics, Democratic politics, ahead of peoples' lives. I suppose that you're a good fit for the party, 'cause they like playing politics with peoples' lives too, witness our current Congress.

Yes, you do have the right to express you disapproval of Code Pink, I wouldn't deny that to you. But you seem to want them to tone it down so they don't hurt your own precious little local campaign. I'm saying that nobody got nothing of any importance done by being polite, and your wish to stifle their methods, your referring to them collectively as "ilk" just goes to show how little value you truly place on free speech on this country, ie it's all well and good until it either becomes too outrageous in your eyes, or if it in anyway threatens you. Good thing this country wasn't counting on you to start the American Revolution, it wouldn't have happened. Darn that patriotic ilk, dressing so outrageous and throwing away all that perfectly good tea:eyes:

No, you haven't stated anything specifically about how we should be meek and mild and polite, but your every posting on this thread gives away your true feelings, that yes indeed, you want a polite anti-war movement, one that won't upset your applecart, one that doesn't impinge on your own little world. Let me guess, you have no personal stake in this war, nobody over there getting their ass shot at. It tends to change one's perspective a bit, making things a bit more urgent.

Sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me, and quite frankly I give my whole hearted support to any group who is committed to ending this war, by any means necessary. Like I said earlier, polite people have never done accomplished a damn thing to help out the people of this country. If it wasn't for that "ilk" you so despise, we wouldn't have the country we have now, we wouldn't have the labor laws we have now, and there's a good chance we might still be in Vietnam. Oh, and women's rights and abortion rights? We wouldn't have them either if it wasn't for that loud mouthed, impolite, "ilk" you so despise.

Think about it.

[Puglover]

414. Your post is

as spot on and as good as they get Madhound!

[cannabis_flower]

148. The problemis not Code Pink...

The problem is the "RW whisper machine".

[saracat]

167. But Code Pink Feeds the RW whisper machine!

[cannabis_flower]

187. The RW whisper machine...

would find something else to whisper about if Code Pink disappeared from the face of the earth. People like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh make it their business to find things to squawk about. If it wasn't Code Pink, it would be war protesters in general, "diversity", how the Democrats are weak on terror.. etc. You will just have to deal with it.

[saracat]

190. There is an element to truth to that ,but there is no reason for so called "progressives"

to deliberately give them ammunition!

[slampoet]

416. Don't be naive, they find something else if it weren't for pink and you know it.

[AZBlue]

300. I'm not sure about saracat, but my concern is not with the Dems but the Reps

It's the Republicans that falsely equate Democrats with Code Pink.

[MadHound]

305. So is this any reason to damn Code Pink? n/t

[AZBlue]

306. I'm not damning anyone.

I question the logic in knowingly hurting the only party that might help their cause though.

[saracat]

324. Mine too!

[AZBlue]

395. I could have sworn that's what you were saying, but

I wasn't sure after reading the response and don't like to put words in people's mouths! :)

Hang in there - I know you got flack for this thread, but you're right. And you're trying to share an actual experience you had - not just a supposition of what others might feel or a declaration of what we're all "supposed" to think and feel.

The problem is that you actually understand the game of politics and the importance of every citizen's impressions and view of circumstances, no matter how accurate or inaccurate they are. You understand the need to present things in a way that won't be counter-productive and won't be used against you and your cause.

Unfortunately, CP and some on DU just don't seem to get that.

:hug:

[harun]

30. I pray you someday get to emigrate to a land free of your Republican masters

you feel you must pacify and serve.

If those Republicans are stupid enough to think Code Pink was allowed in to this event for any reason other than making Dem's look bad then I don't see any hope of them honestly working with Dem's on anything. It wasn't like it was a 10,000 seat stadium where people just bought tickets.

I admire your struggle to turn things around where you live, and thank you for that.

I do think you need to ask yourself a question though. Why do you feel Dem's image in the eyes of moderate Republicans was damaged in your state by the actions of Code Pink? I don't think that those Republicans would have thought any different about the "Dem's looking stupid" if protesters said anything or not. Also the Dem's running the meetings kicked them out.

Did any people get kicked out of the Republican convention for wearing purple heart band-aids?

[Cleita]

31. Yes, let's let the Republicans define our base and our principles for us.

For one thing Code Pink are liberals who may or may not be Democrats. A large number of them in my area anyway are Greens or Socialists. Most of them are from families who have family members fighting in Iraq and other misguided war theaters. They do not claim to speak for the Democrats but to influence them to do the right thing to end this war. If you feel you are losing Republican votes, you need to explain to them what Code Pink stands for and whom they are. However, if you are pandering to Republican votes, you have lost already. Your husband would be better off running as an independent and caucusing with the Democrats if he's elected.

[damntexdem]

40. Maybe we need a new first amendment to a Democratic Constitution:

"Democrats shall make no rule respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, unless such exercise hurts Democratic candidates; or abridging the freedom of speech, unless that speech could hurt Democrats, or of the press, unless that freedom should impact Democratic electoral politics; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, unless such assembly or petition should hurt Democratic candidates in red states."

[saracat]

52. That is not true.He got a lot od support from moderate Dems.

And he pandered to NO one.And Independent has zero chance in this state.

[VLC]

33. If the Republicans are not smart enough to distinguish between the Democratic Party and Code Pink

I fear censuring Code Pink will not be enough. They need to be reeducated.

Also, it strikes me that this desire for everyone "on the left" to think and act alike would make us more like the right than the left.

I used to attend protests at which someone invariably tried to impose a dress code so we would look "respectable". I find it far more respectable to be a varied group, where there's someone who can relate to anyone who would stop and talk to us. Imposing a dress or behavior code would just add to the things we are protesting against!

[jChicago]

34. I agree saracat -- I cringed for the few seconds I heard it

I appreciate their passion but I don't think most people, not even RWers, get the nuance of what they are doing, i.e., we are disrupting this charade of a hearing. To most people, even my Democratic, moderate in-laws (from the South!), they appear juvenile and are not taken seriously. I also think they do damage to the anti-war message. Ritter, Krugman, Herbert, Boxer, WesClark*. Sorry, but that's the reality.

[Tellurian]

35. How could this OP's quote be considered supporting Democratic Values?

"But now many are questioning their support of us.In comparison to Code Pink, they think the General did well though most do not currently support the war but could be persuaded to give it more time."

FYI, the General's testimony was far from candid. He was covering for Republicans and Bush all the way. This quote is ludicrous.

[saracat]

39. I was quoting REPUBLICANS not Democrats!Of cxourse they can be

expected to support Democratic values! But many do vote for Democrats!

[AZBlue]

301. Sure, but it's a small minority of Americans that know he lied.

Most - including most Republicans and many Dems - don't know the truth.

[paulk]

36. I've experienced the same reaction

with my relatives in (Red) upstate NY. These are people who are mostly moderate Democrats/Republicans. Many of them voted for Reagan and the elder Bush. They've been shifting more solidly into the Democratic camp, especially with the lessor Bush these last few years, but their loyalty cannot be taken for granted.

I visited there recently for the first time since Bush the younger has been in office, and I was surprised by the level of animosity expressed toward groups like Code Pink. Michael Moore also came in for a lot of derision. I think it's easy for those of us who live in more liberal places to not see the damage these choir preachers do to the causes they are supposedly pushing. The sort of grandstanding that these folks engage in is not appreciated out in the heartland.


My argument is to remind them that these people aren't Democrats and that it's unfair to tar the Democrats with their brush.

[damntexdem]

42. If citizens expressing their politics are inconvenient for red state Dems, ...

then screw the latter. What is important is that citizens express their politics, their grievances, and their impatience with politicians of all stripes.

Discussions like this one are precisely why I argue in the peace movement that it should not tie itself too closely with the Democratic Party.

[onenote]

51. its not that they are expressing their politics, its the way they present themselves

dressing up like clowns obscure, rather than enhances, the message. People see a clown, so they close their minds to the message. Hard but true facts.

[ShortnFiery]

97. "its the way they present themselves" - WTF! These are protestors NOT debutantes.

I'm at a loss. No one changes history by "being appropriate." :eyes:

[onenote]

110. again. Tell that to the folks who went Clean for Gene and changed history

by forcing LBJ out of the race and making the antiwar position more mainstream

[ShortnFiery]

115. You're hopeless. Enjoy your rigid judgments about people you know absolutely nothing about. nt

[onenote]

122. which people do I know nothing about?

Members of Congress who generally don't respond well to people who play "dress up"? I think I know them pretty well.

Members of the general public who tend to look at people in pink tiaras as not being serious? I think I know them pretty well.

Members of CodePink? I know that they mean well. I just think that they have chosen an approach that is ineffective and in many instances, self-defeating since it just gives those who need to be convinced an excuse to ignore them.

[rockymountaindem]

186. It's this kind of inflated rhetoric that's standing in our way, IMHO.

We're not trying to "change history". Ghandi changed history. Otto von Bismarck changed history. We're just people trying to make a point. In no way has the anti-war movement in this country reached "history changing" status. It may in the future, but here in late summer 2007, we're not there yet. In order to attain the status you and I seek, the anti-war movement has to attain *broad-based* appeal, which is only possible if we try to reach mainstream America on its own terms. I seriously doubt that Code Pink's tactics are going to win them broad support because they set themselves up as the "crazy hippie" strawman that the RW loves to abuse. Like it or not (I don't), that strawman has a powerful appeal to a lot of people in America who should be on our side. We're not going to convince them with outlandish tactics that plays right into the hands of our opponent. And please, don't tell me Code Pink is "re-framing the debate" on that score. That debate has already been framed and that frame has sunk deep into the American political consciousness.

It's this messianic rhetoric that Code Pink et. al. is somehow "changing history" that leads to the rather fundamentalist notion that there's no wrong way to go about doing the right thing: that whatever Code Pink does is a priori correct because they're on the right side of the issue. That is incorrect.

I doubt I'm doing any good by saying this because you're probably just going to rip on me and then write me off like you have other posters who have challenged your assertions, but I felt like saying my piece.

[ShortnFiery]

211. "It's this messianic rhetoric that Code Pink" - that's RW slammin' at it's best!

:crazy: Pot meet kettle. :rofl:

On edit, it must be HELL to be so easily intimidated by the Right Wing. Because the Corporate Media works for them, it's the activists who will be the most instrumental at waking up our gutless Congressional Representatives.

I don't fear the RW. I get in their faces and REDEFINE the topic.


I think you are jealous - want a clown suit? :rofl:

[saracat]

223. Get elected to anything yet?

[ShortnFiery]

229. That's the point which truly escapes you. It's not about "getting elected" it's about "SERVING" your

constituents. IMO, the political ruling class has forgotten that they swore an oath to The Constitution of The United States. For all of your efforts to disdain people who genuinely care about our youth sent to kill and die in an illegal/immoral occupation, you will NOT, no matter how hard you try, get many of us to respect your efforts ("I wanna be elected") over those more noble goals of Code Pink to stop the senseless bloodshed. Beware of unbridled pride and ambition Democratic centrists - you will answer to "the people" at the ballot box come 2008 and beyond.

[saracat]

232. The point which escapes you is you can't "serve" without being "elected."

And I work with my congresspersons and the Veterans Caucus assisting wounded vets especially those with PTSS and head injuries, and their families.What do you do for these people? And what makes you even think I am a centrist? Because I do not wear a pink crown?

[ShortnFiery]

234. All I know is what I see here: A person who is rigid and judgmental - toward people who truly care.

about ending the madness of the Iraqi Occupation. :(

bravo <sound of one hand clapping>

p.s. Neither of us have a way to verify each other's claims. However, I have worked for the Government as a Psychologist (GS-11) counseling soldiers with alcohol abuse and drug issues. Also I've WORKED WITH soldiers who suffer with PTSD.

[saracat]

243. "All I know is what I see here: A person who is rigid and judgmental - toward people who truly care"

Sure you aren't looking in the mirror?

[ShortnFiery]

249. No, I do regret my bluntness, but from years of addiction counseling, I serve my clients better

when I call em as I see them. Please forgive me if you think I was too harsh? However, you are doing yourself as disservice by all this angst and venom for an Anti-War Protest Group that sets out to bring attention in order to have their issues aired.

It just isn't worth it. Code Pink is going nowhere - in fact, I predict that their ranks will increase exponentially as time goes on. :shrug:

[saracat]

277. Why should I? You don't allow me to be "harsh" about Code Pink and their actions!

I call them as I see them as well, and apparently it is all right for you but not acceptable for me.

[ShortnFiery]

280. OK, then I hope you are able to make peace "with yourself" because your efforts to

disrespect them here have mostly fallen on deaf ears.

May Peace Be With You. :hi: :hug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

255. The disdain for Code Pink and Michael Moore is just them

mindlessly mouthing what their masters on right wing radio and Fox News say.

That's why they're right wingers. They'd rather be told what to think than think for themselves.

The way to respond to some bozo who says, "I hate Code Pink" or "I hate Michael Moore," is to say, "Do you know what Code Pink stands for? Have you ever seen any of Michael Moore's films?"

In 99% of the cases, the answer to both questions will be "no." That's why their only criticism is, "Code Pink dresses funny" or "Michael Moore is fat."

If my brother ever starts ragging on Michael Moore (he knows better than to do that in front of me and our other brother), I'm going to invite him over to watch a DVD of The Big One--or Sicko, when it comes out.

[paulk]

278. except the people I'm talking about don't listen to Rush

or watch Fox. They are not "right wingers".

The far left doesn't get it. And the attitude that you display here - that these people are to stupid to think for themselves, is exactly the attitude that has alienated these folks.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

302. But have they actually SEEN a Michael Moore film, or are they

just relying on hearsay?

I know that my brother, who isn't stupid, is relying on hearsay when he criticizes leftish media figures.

[paulk]

311. sure they have

another characteristic of the far left (and far right, to be fair) is an inability to understand that not everyone reacts to things the same way. That people can take the same information and reach a different answer...

People can be against the war or understand our healthcare system is fucked up and still arrive at the conclusion that M. Moore is a self aggrandizing loudmouth or that Code Pink are a bunch of flakes. That doesn't make them stupid. It doesn't even make them wrong, by their lights. And being told that they're stupid and they're wrong only ends up pissing them off.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

322. So why are their criticisms in terms of "He's fat"?

If they'd actually seen the films, you'd think they'd point out some factual errors.

[saracat]

325. How do you know what paulk's relatives said about MM? Aren't you assuming a lot?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

343. I wasn't referring to paulk's relatives but to right wingers in general

Yeesh!

[saracat]

357. Fine except in post 36 paulk makes it clear he is talking about his relatives!

who he is specific are NOT RW but moderate and don't like MM or Code Pink!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3514953&mesg_id=3515056

[Hippo_Tron]

412. Why is the GOP not worried about how Rush Limbaugh makes them look?

I don't think it's impossible for someone to come to their own conclusion that code pink and Michael Moore are self aggrandizing loudmouth assholes. I just think that when there is overwhelming concern about how Michael Moore hurts Democrats and little to no concern that Rush Limbaugh hurts Republicans there is no other explanation than people have fallen victim to propaganda.

[fed-up]

38. why are they repukes if :"They did not want to be associated with a bunch of crazies" * is INSANE nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. ROFLMAO.

You sound very concerned.

"many moderate Republicans were talking to me about Code Pink and how revolted they were."

Pull the other one. A prize will come out.

[endarkenment]

226. I'm still trying to figure out what a "moderate republican" is.

Are they the ones who don't want to put all them gays to death?

[VLC]

251. I'm still trying to figure out people's fascination with "moderates"

Usually it just means they're trying to please everyone and therefore not getting anything done.

Moderation in moderation, that's my motto.

[LittleClarkie]

308. No, they're the ones who ...

care for the environment
want the war to end
want to see their party return to the principles of fiscal responsibility
want their party back and for the damned fundies to quit trying to hijack it
and
voted for Kerry last election (several of them anyway).

Eisenhower Republicans
Teddy Roosevelt Republicans
Lincoln Republicans

SANE Republicans

[SaveElmer]

47. K&R...nt

[FredScuttle]

50. "I live in a Republican dominated District"

Your problem is not Code Pink....it's that you live amongst war-cheering assholes who support a party of closet-cases and lying, thieving, degenerate imbeciles. Why you should feel you have to explain Code Pink's actions (which have nothing to do with the Democratic party) when your neighbors turn a blind eye to the rampant criminality operating at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is baffling.

I wouldn't presume to tell you to move as I assume that you have deep roots in your community....so stay and fight! I live in a fairly conservative Democratic city and I don't hesitate if someone starts laying bullshit on me about MoveOn, DailyKos, etc.

Seriously...we're nearing 4,000 US servicepeople killed in this war and you're bent out of shape about Code Pink?

[saracat]

54. Yes.Because they helped create a negative preception of our local candidates.

It is all about perception!

[FredScuttle]

57. Perception by whom?

By idiots who can't tell the difference between non-aligned protest group and the Democratic Party.

If you're so desperate to pander to mouthbreathers like that for votes, godspeed. I'd rather retain my dignity.

[saracat]

79. Thank you.People like you brought us George Bush! Maybe you don't care

about clean air and water or good schools but I do and the only way my state will do that is by electing Dems.Period.And they are doing a great job but idiot are jeopardizing it with stupid behavior! You retain that so called dignity , I would rather have a job, clean air and good schools as well as a state government that listens to the people!

[VLC]

92. That's highly offensive.

If I were you, I'd stop worrying about costumes and start worrying about what's coming out of your hysterical mouth.

[ShortnFiery]

101. "people like you" ... yes, us little people who don't make the political elites' cocktail soirees.

:eyes:

On Edit: Excuse me, I meant this to be a reply to saracat. :blush:

[saracat]

134. If the shoe fits! I find it offensive you think more of your own

so called "ideals" that electing those who can help us make a better county state and city government!

[ShortnFiery]

139. Tell me, I bet you wouldn't be caught dead in white shoes after labor day?

:eyes:

IMO, This thread has morphed into the absurd.

[saracat]

160. I NEVER wear white shoes.Ever!

;) ;) ;)

[VLC]

152. If it wasn't Code Pink, it would be Michael Moore or the Dixie Chicks or Bill Maher or any one

of a hundred other groups and individuals who have been victimized by this smallminded, self-righteous fake indignance by people who fail to become indignant over the war, global warming, healthcare, or any of the other REAL issues that they should be FURIOUS over.

Every time you discuss it with them you are just reinforcing in their minds that the costumes Code Pink wears are an actual issue.

How about this. Next time some idiot starts talking to you about Code Pink "disrupting" something, you say, "That's why I'm sure you'll agree that our disruption in Iraq - by people wearing army costumes and a commander in chief in a flight suit getup - was HIGHLY inappropriate!"

[saracat]

162. Actually that is kind of cute

[Major Hogwash]

168. Yeah, they tried to vilify Michael Moore when he made Fahrenheit 911 although it was true.

It's amazing how far people will go to tell anyone who disagrees with them to shut up.
That's not the American way.

After reading several political forums in 2004 try to blame Michael Moore's movie for Bush getting re-elected, I pretty much knew right then that they were just trying to shut him down.
They're still trying to shut him down.

National groups like Code Pink don't have an immediate impact on local elections.
Except to knee-jerk loyal Republicans that were never considering voting any differently in the first place.
Moderate Republicans would not have considered what Code Pink did was wrong on Monday.
Because they would have been focused more on the lies that Petraeus was telling at that hearing.
The ones that did, aren't moderates.

[Cha]

136. More logical advice..

you better watch it. :)

[cannabis_flower]

177. No that's not true....

It's people like Ralph Nader and Kinky Friedman who gave us George Bush and Rick Perry in Texas. You should not presume that we don't care but people, be they Code Pink, the DLC, Fred Phelps, Sean Hannity or the Swift-boaters are free to do and say what they want and it is not fair to say they are spoiling it for Democrats. If you live in a Red District why are you surprised that you lost? To me it just sounds like sour grapes. Get over it.

[saracat]

199. I was surprised we almost won.He are running again.No sour grapes here!

[ShortnFiery]

83. Well put. Amen!

"I'd rather retain my dignity."

DECORUM BE DAMNED! - We must end an illegal and immoral war - no time for preening, aye?

I envision that "the PIC below" is how DLCers and New Way Demos view ANYONE who doesn't cow tow to their delicate "guilded class" sensibilities of what is appropriate.



Well, BUGGA BUGGA BOO! Blue Dog Democrats - suck it up and play for "the entire team" to include us dirty little working class people ;)

[sufrommich]

184. What working class people? Who's "us".

Something tells me Code Pink isn't brimming with waitresses and factory workers. In fact, the working class, blue collar population of our society is probably the very group that would not view the disruption by Code Pink of the hearing as endearing or productive.Reagan won them over in droves by falsely connecting groups like this to the Dem. party.Read some history.

[ShortnFiery]

209. US? We are what you "Reagan Democrats" seemingly slam at every opportunity = LIBERALS

[sufrommich]

212. How you inferred from my post

that I was a Reagan Democrat is beyond me. You post such nonsense.

[ShortnFiery]

215. Read your post again. Especially the lines about the skill of Saint Reagan.

Come on, you were a Reagan Democrat in the 1980s? It's just you and me, admit it, weren't you? ;) <tease - tongue in cheek>

[sufrommich]

222. Nevermind.

[saracat]

323. That is absolutely correct! And that was how we "lost " those people.That is wh y many of the unions

are now"split" between the parties.

[Vickers]

78. Did your local candidates appear with members of Code Pink?

:shrug:

[saracat]

82. Of course not.But all are againt the war and the association is being made by those that do not know

better!

[Senator]

88. Thank You DC Dems For Allowing Code Pink To Lead

...in confronting this war criminal regime.

Because if you all would honor your oaths of office, speak the truth to the public/electorate, and impeach the most impeachable regime in the history of our once-great nation then, well ... ah ...

Hey, nothing bad would happen. We might even be able to stop the ongoing torture and end the war.

On second thought, thanks but no thanks.

----

[jgraz]

108. Sorry saracat, any candidate who loses because of Code Freaking Pink is too weak to run for office

I'm so tired of hearing stuff like this: "We lost because of Code Pink", "We lost because of Ralph Nader", "We lost because of Cindy Sheehan", 'We lost because of the Greens".

In short: "We lost because of DEMOCRACY." Seriously, if this party is so weak that they can't stand against fringe parties and performance artists, we've got much bigger problems than a few pink tutus.

[BigDDem]

111. CodePink = NutCase(s)

Save the costumes for Halloween ladies.

[ShortnFiery]

112. Code Pink = American Patriots

:patriot: :thumbsup:

[VLC]

113. Is it wearing a costume that makes one a nutcase?

Or is it something else about them?

[onenote]

116. For the record, I don't think that they are nut cases.

I do think that they are undermining their effectiveness.

[BigDDem]

119. Their "message" aka shreeks

are being drowned out by the fact they look like a bunch
of 5 year olds playing dress up.

[VLC]

123. So that makes them insane?

[ShortnFiery]

124. We'll remember all this disrespect when the 2008 election comes around.

And us liberals will rightly attribute it to the "political elites" of the DLC telling us little people how to act and think.

It won't work this time bud. :thumbsdown:

[saracat]

137. Yeah and you will elect a Republican!

[ShortnFiery]

151. NO, our illustrious leaders within the ruling elite Democratic Party will have, once again,

FAILED to listen to the concerns of their constituents.

For example, a truck driver or a laborer doesn't give a damn how we stop this Occupation - they just want it stopped before their beloved children have to serve as "cannon fodder" for the ruling elite's Oil Wars.

You just don't get it! It doesn't matter if we "don't care" for their STYLE, all peoples who are striving to end this war are OUR Anti-war allies.

Now, we don't have to fully claim them, but we also should NOT disrespect them either. But you know that, don't you? Or have you been so out of touch with us "dirty little wage slaves" that you fail to see that we don't give a DAMN about your, IMO, INANE definitions of "appropriateness?"

[BigDDem]

157. Say one of you dirty "little wage slaves"

went and asked your boss for a raise...would you do it in a
pink tiara, a boa and a bunch of children's costume jewelry?

[VLC]

158. Are you saying politicians are our bosses?

Because actually it's the other way around. So the question should be if it's OK for our bosses to wear tiaras.

And in my case, I could do that and no one in my office would care. As it should be.

[BigDDem]

163. ShortnFiery referred to herself as a "dirty little wage slave"

therefore I used the "boss" analogy. I had no idea that would
confuse anyone, I stand corrected.

[VLC]

169. You were pretty clearly making an analogy between an employee talking to a boss

and Code Pink talking to politicians.

[saracat]

178. I am one of those "dirty little wage slaves"!

I take great exception to your insinuation that I am out of "touch" with the "dirty little wage slaves!" My husband is a member of the AFLCIO and he has their endorsement. And I take great offense at your characterization of all truck divers or laborers not caring about "how" we stop this occupation.You simply cannot speak for all people like that and imply that all agree with your methods.I am sure all do not.

[ShortnFiery]

208. Somehow, IMO, you have disconnected with us "little people" whose Moms dress us funny.

:eyes: :crazy:

[saracat]

220. Somehow you have "disconnected" with those of us whose Mom's told us to respect

ourselves and ALL people.Even those we disagree with and to conduct ourselves with dignity. Whatever!

[ShortnFiery]

231. Too funny! This is no time for arbitrary "Miss Manners" rules. They're YOUR inane and rigid laws.

Not mine. My momma taught me to respect diversity. :shrug:

[saracat]

233. Really? You don't act like it! Why must I respect Code Pink's actions? Why don't you

respect diversity of opinion? It seemst you don't respect any opinion but your own.

[ShortnFiery]

241. Not true. I would not "dress up" but I have enough respect for their goal to stop the war that I

refuse to SLAM them. That's the problem with you folks in the "center" - you're far TOO AFRAID of what people might think and are embarrassed of "our activists" who often kick open the door so the lame media might spend more than a moment on critical issues.

Hello? We have no free press. Therefore, anyone who is trying to stop this war by nonviolent resistance AND is willing to be arrested and spend time in jail has my RESPECT.

You're SIMPLY trying to get hubby and other Blue Dog Democrats elected. Please excuse me if I choose to value Code Pink's goals over such PERSONAL ambitions. :shrug:

[saracat]

252. "Personal ambitions? " Obviously you have absolutely no idea

what a legislative salary is in my state. And it hurts us to run finacially but my husband is doing it because he cares. There is no "glory" in this job or money.He happens to care about where we live.And we are about as far from the center as one can get without wearing a tiara!People who sacrifice and dedicate their time and effort to making their world a better place with little or no reward get my respect!

[LittleClarkie]

317. Aren't you assuming an awful lot

or does being described as "sane" make him a blue dog? Let's hope not.

I suppose he could be perceived to be in the center if you're standing far enough to the left. But that tends to be distorting.

[BigDDem]

176. Havin' a bad day?

[ShortnFiery]

207. No, but the centrists have kicked us liberals in the teeth long enough and then DEMAND that we vote

for them. They don't even claim us and always use "evil liberals" as the reason they lose elections.

Newsflash, you centrists need to get out more often. IMO, that cocktail "political elite" circuit is pickling your brains. :shrug:

[saracat]

279. "what political elite cocktail circuit" ?

[Kolesar]

127. What exactly did Codepink do?

Yes, I should ask Saracat...

[zulchzulu]

147. Code Pink = People who f*cking care enough to poke a stick in Bush's eyes

I don't agree with all of their tactics, but I certainly think they have every right to protest...even if it doesn't look "convenient" to some.

[MelissaB]

138. How many people watch CSPAN or saw Code Pink there?

I'd say not many. No, I didn't read through this long thread. I don't have time. Gotta go pick up the kids.

[ripple]

161. That was my first thought, too

I was talking about the Code Pink stuff with a couple of friends who, while not political junkies like me, are pretty well-informed about the issues of the day. They don't watch CSPAN, though, and that's about the only place to see Code Pink in action. Despite their efforts to be noticed and make their voices heard, the mainstream media pretty much ignores them.

[saracat]

181. Nope All our local newscasts carried a clip Fox played it up big!

[ripple]

214. Ah, well Fox would, I suppose.

From what I hear, they've been all over the MoveOn NYT ad, as well.

The right wing is getting desperate. They've lost the upper hand with regard to Iraq, so they're trying the old, tired tactics of portraying dissenters as crazed liberals. I don't think it will work this time, though. And remember, most people who watch Fox and take it as gospel aren't going to vote for the democrat, anyway.

I'll admit that I flinch a little sometimes when I see some of the CP attire, but I respect the hell out of them for putting themselves out there and speaking truth to power up close and personal.

BTW, who was the male protester in yesterday's hearing? Was he the guy wearing the tiara the day before in the House hearings? Just curious, as I thought CP was all women. It's nice to see some men standing in solidarity, even if they aren't members.

[Yukari Yakumo]

384. Why CP needs to be given the middle finger.

All they do is give Faux Noise Channel all the soundbites they could ever need to deride the peace movement. The only ones who would support them are those who are already on the anti-war side. Their goal should be to win over the undecided and convert those who are on the pro-war side. By acting like bratty children and dressing like clowns, CP will have the exact opposite effect that they are supposed to be making.

Respect my ass, CP deserves none of it. If they want to act like clowns, then I say let's complete the picture and start pasting their faces with creme pies.

[zulchzulu]

140. Don't blame poor candidates on Code Pink

Granted, Bushbot Repugs will not like Code Pink under any circumstances.

If a Democrat, who hopefully is running on the idea of ending the Occupation, can't tell their possible voters, who probably don't like the Occupation, that even though Code Pink protests the Occupation, they can't get their vote, then they don't deserve to get elected in the first place.

If the Republican running against the Democrat says he agrees with Code Pink on the Occupation, then it's an easy comeback for any saavy person to slam them against the wall politically. Just say that 70% of Americans of all stripes and political parties want the Occupation to end. Code Pink is just a sliver in the pie chart.

Any saavy Democrat would ask the Republican if they agree with the way things are going in Iraq. If they think it's going well, then they are doomed.

Don't blame Code Pink for protesting the quagmire. We should all be out in the streets.

[saracat]

253. Legislative candidates don't run on the war!

[zulchzulu]

291. So the half a trillion dollars spent on the war have no effect on local programs?

If a candidate doesn't see a link with an overly disastrous war that destabilizes communities with lack of funds and even lack of protection due to people having to fight and die in the war, then they aren't worth voting for in the first place.

If they are mollified by groups like Code Pink and think that they are woefully linked to that small group, then they should stick to selling used cars.

[nealmhughes]

165. This entire thread reminds me of my continued analogy to the activists in the DP as being

"Neo-Puritans", aka, Root and Branchers while the party structure and the outsiders see them as Levellers.
I seriously doubt Medea and Cindy in pink changed anyone's vote since thier minds were already made up, I am sure, before they went into the booth, if it wasn't, they were a 50/50 shot either way.
One thing we must consider, since this was not a nation wide election, is the clout of incumbency and endorsement by the outgoing encumbent. This may well have been the clincher.
Anecdotal evidence does not equate with causation. Several women said they would not vote for a Democratic candidate due to Code Pink. Why didn't you reply, "But you'll vote for a party full of convicted felons, adulterers, and perverts?"
I hate to disagree, but most people are more interested in the road program and education budget in state senate elections than antics in a Senate Committee hearing room.
In short people are fickle, and the best candidate does not always win by any means. People claim one thing but think another and act a third. An election is too much a complex system full of variables in order to simply reduce it to one causation for a particular defeat.
Simply polling ex post facto the effect of why a particular candidate would reveal a lot for the next time. . . but the questions must be open ended so as not to bias it towards the choices! I suggest that if your husband runs again, that you find out precisely why: it might be something as vapid as name recognition, hair style or entrenched Republican ideals from a majority of the voters and not Code Pink at all.

[saracat]

217. My husband hasn't lost.This wasn't his election night.And this was a non -partisan

election and I was able to talk to Republicans not only at the polls but at parties afterward.I would never respond to a potential Republican voter with "But you'll vote for a party full of convicted felons, adulterers, and perverts?"Why on earth would a person I spoke to so nastily vote for the candidate I endorse? I insult them and then ask for their vote? I don't think so.And we need those votes!
As for people being more interested in issues in state senate elections than antics in a Senate Committee hearing, that is both true and false.They are interested int the issues but their perceptions of what Democrats , or what they perceive as "liberals' are about is shaped by the coverage of gals in pink crowns! And our local TV covered this at length!We will have to deal with it but it makes me angry that CP puts us in this position.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

312. Calling a fellow DUer a liar is never cool

And Saracat doesn't deserve it.

[rockymountaindem]

173. Let the others flame, I understand what you're saying.

Red state and red area Dems have a fine line to walk with regards to credibility and Code Pink definitely isn't making that job any easier.

[saracat]

183. Thank you. They just do not get it!

[rockymountaindem]

191. Though I don't always agree with you, you're one of the most tenacious posters on DU

and I'm glad to see you forwarding the interests of red-state Dems on this website. I'm convinced a lot of DUers live in solidly Democratic areas and think that everybody either agrees with them or is some kind of Neanderthal. They don't appreciate that there aren't enough members of the "Democratic base" to win most elections, and that we need to reach out to others. Screaming "fascist" and "war-monger" at people who think Code Pink's methods are counter-productive makes just as much sense as when the radical RW calls us "baby killers" for being in favor of stem-cell research.

[VLC]

213. Posts are overwhelmingly against what you said, but WE'RE the ones who don't get it...

[saracat]

319. Apparently Jon Stewart , unlike you, "gets it" !

And there are quite a few posts in support of my position on this thread as well! Whatever!

[VLC]

326. yeah, quite a few posts from the same 2 or 3 people

[saracat]

328. As are the opposition.But Jon Stewart is another person! So there are some of us out there that do

not agree with Code Pink's methods.As Stewart said,"They are NOT helping".

[VLC]

329. Of course, and you are entitled to that opinion

But that doesn't make you right.

[ShortnFiery]

335. Hello!?! Jon Stewart is a comedian. He uses any political news to spin "humor"

Did you have an interview with Jon Stewart, the man? Because Jon Stewart on The Daily Show is a work of Satire. :eyes:

[saracat]

353. He admits that the show reflects his own views.In a humorous vein.

He has been interviwed about that many times.

[ShortnFiery]

356. Not exactly, "the show" is a TEAM Effort, not necessarily Stewart's personal views. nt

However, if you need to use "the spin" on a fictional news show as proof that we should "tar and feather" Code Pink: Mission NOT Accomplished. :shrug:

[saracat]

359. You must not have seen his interview. The"team reflects "his" view.

Remember his support of Kerry? And he really does not support Bush.He apparently doesn't support Code Pink.Deal with it.Must everyone agree with you for you to be happy?

[ShortnFiery]

362. Hello? The daily show is "a team effort" - that does not equate ONLY to Jon's views.

Gosh, if you are holding onto The Daily Show as your comfort in the storm, it's not REAL. :eyes:

[saracat]

371. Read to comprehend.The "team " is reflective of his views.He has said so.I believe him.

[ShortnFiery]

372. As my Karate coach would say, "There's no 'I' in TEAM"

Look it up? :shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

245. We get it.

We just think you're so full of it you've got it coming out your ears.

[FiveGoodMen]

188. If the Dems would just become neo-cons, the red-staters would love them.

Constant attempts not to appear too liberal have made the Democratic Party almost useless.

F*** every last Dem who tries to appeal to red-state mentality. Better to go down fighting than to become your enemy.

[rockymountaindem]

192. Yeah, too bad we've got people like Claire McCaskill and Jon Tester in the Senate

I guess they can go fuck off too :sarcasm:

[FiveGoodMen]

196. Don't understand your point

Are you saying they're 'moderate' (i.e. spineless) Dems but it's good we have them or that they're fighting the good fight (in which case I wasn't criticizing them)?

[rockymountaindem]

206. I'm trying to point out there are Dems that red-staters will back

even though they're not DINOs. If you want to get on a high horse and attack everybody outside the progressive movement even when they may be looking for reasons to join in common cause with us, that's your prerogative. I'm saying if we want to win a *majority*, we're going to need to use a little honey and get even some Bush voters onside.

[FiveGoodMen]

210. And I'm saying Dems have gradually become corrupt and worthless by following that line of thinking

A majority isn't getting us anywhere right now because it's made up of people who aren't really different from the republicans.

And that majority may well be lost again soon as its base figures out they've been screwed.

The really important thing about our Reps and Senators isn't the letter behind their names, it's the way they vote on bills and the things they say to the press (and thus, the public).

This isn't a football game; it isn't about your team winning. It's about saving the Constitution and becoming, once again, a positive force in the world.

What does it profit a man if he gains the Congress but loses his soul?

[rockymountaindem]

271. Let me ask you a question?

At what point during recent history, let's say the past fifty years, have Democrats been the homogeneous party of zealous, uncompromising liberals of which DUers dream. People here keep saying that the Dems have become "corrupt and worthless", but I don't know when, if ever, the Dems were markedly less so, if indeed they are today. When was that?

[sufrommich]

272. I've seen this question posed

at least four times in the last month. No one ever answers. Good luck.

[FiveGoodMen]

294. They've been moving to the right since Reagan

I don't know that I'm going to compile a set of statistics that will convince you of that if you don't agree, but let me make two points:

1) Lots of people have commented on the gradual shift to the right in American politics for that past quarter century so it's not just my impression, but more importantly...

2) We desperately need to keep the Bill of Rights which has never been in so much jeopardy in my lifetime and we need to quit starting wars. So even if the Dems were never as good as they should have been, they need to step up to the plate right the fuck now!

This is not a game. We might not be a democracy at all by this time next year. Whoever doesn't stand against Bush is evil in the strongest sense of the word. The Pukes aren't breaking ranks, so the only thing we've got to hope for is 'our' party and I can't tell that they are 'our' party any more.

Whenever the Dems back down, the fence-sitters decide that maybe the Dem position wasn't that strong in the first place. Whenever one of ours criticizes Bush publicly and then apologizes, America thinks that they must have been wrong (after all, the admitted they were wrong when they said they were sorry).

Our country is dead if we don't put up a fight damned soon, so there's not much point cutting the Dems any slack. They either win this or we all lose.

[harun]

386. The entire political establishment has been moving to the

right. Both parties, for a long time.

What people want to see is someone with principles who sticks by them. People want this on both sides right now, it is why Ron Paul is getting so much attention. He is willing to take a stand on principles and not get pushed around. This is why I like Kucinich so much. He will stick by what he believes in, period. He will compromise when it isn't for something insane, like supporting imperialism, occupation, and domination of other countries like so many Dem's are compromising on now.

[Hippo_Tron]

413. They never were, but things have gotten worse not better

For example, in the 1970's, the Democratic Congress actually addressed the government abuse of surveillance powers by forming the Church Commission and passing FISA.

Why did Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid not pledge after being elected to form a similar commission to address the abuse of power by this administration?

[saracat]

194. No one is trying to appear not liberal! Geez.Wearing a pink crown has

nothing to do with being liberal.I suppose you think not wearing a pink crown makes you conservative?

[FiveGoodMen]

195. Isn't opposing the war liberal?

[saracat]

200. Who doesn't oppose the war? Can't you oppose the war and not support Code Pink?

[FiveGoodMen]

204. Who doesn't oppose the war? All the Pukes and an awful lot of Dems

(Emphasis on awful)

Getting our troops home from this fiasco should have been a slam-dunk and it isn't even in the works.

So people try different ways of drawing attention to the problem. At least they're trying.

[saracat]

221. I do not know any of my Local or Federal Dems who do not oppose the war!

[FiveGoodMen]

225. That's a good thing. But you DO know that Dems in congress haven't insisted on a time-table

Even if your reps are good -- some of mine are, too -- we need them all to get their shit together.

[FiveGoodMen]

295. Criticizing those who try to stop the war makes one suspect, yes.

[LittleClarkie]

314. So if I tried to stop the war by pulling my pants down and whistling "We shall overcome"

out my butt in front of Nancy Pelosi's house and then crapping on her lawn, you would welcome that?

It's not the people so much as their tactics, really. And one should be able to say "gee, I don't think that was such a good idea, guys" without their credibility being called into question.

Most people here want to stop the war. It's the "how" that's in question. And if one person thinks that the efforts of some war protesters inadvertently sabotages the effort, they're going to say so. Surely not EVERYTHING is helpful.

[Solon]

336. No offense, but yes your credibility is in question...

Mostly because you criticize ALL direct actions, it wouldn't matter if Code Pink wore formal fashions, they are the visible scapegoat. Just admit you actually hate a certain segment of the population and move on, Code Pink isn't here to please YOU or the Democratic party.

[LittleClarkie]

354. You're mistaking me for the OP.

And no, I don't hate Code Pink.

I also don't hate America. And I don't hate freedom.

[MelissaB]

281. I've only been out of a red state 6 weeks, so I do get it.

I just don't agree.

BTW, the red state was Alabama for 42 years.

[LittleClarkie]

313. A Christian friend of mine feels the same way about Pat Robertson

Just makes it harder for her when people think all Christians act like that.

[Raster]

182. Oh puhleeze! I am sick-to-death of the Protest Police and their fashion citations!

So it's not what you would have done. It's what they did. At least they did something. How petty and trite to criticize the delivery and presentation. And when the next election is stolen or the next war-for-profit has killed the kid next door, remember you stood up--to criticize the tutu and tiara! SUPPORT THE MESSAGE!

Wake up, America!:kick:

[Luminous Animal]

185. Politics over carnage....

Father Dan Berrigan responding to those criticizing Vietnam anti-war protests.

Our apologies, good friends, for the fracture of good order, the burning of paper instead of children, the angering of the orderlies in the front parlor of the charnel house. We could not, so help us God, do otherwise.... We say: killing is disorder, life and gentleness and community and unselfishness is the only order we recognize. For the sake of that order, we risk our liberty, our good name. The time is past when good men can remain silent, when obedience can segregate men from public risk, when the poor can die without defense.

[DancingBear]

189. Now THIS is funny

Are "they" REALLY this desperate?

Does rocking the boat REALLY make "them" that nervous?

Does "their" PC have grammar check??

This is one of the funniest things ever posted!

What a hoot!!!!

Now where is that "Code Pink needs more $$" checkbook...

[here_is_to_hope]

201. OMG! OH NO!

Shrill beyond belief!
I cant imagine what your household must be like...
And I find it hilarious that you capitalize 'republican'....
I guess there wasnt enough time to bitch about Cindy today?
where is that damn ignore button?
:wtf:

[saracat]

205. I also capitalize Repugs !

[frylock]

228. aw jeez..

[KoKo]

238. Good luck to your Husband, but he and you should hope to understand that Bush's War

is going to bring down America...it's already shredded our Constitution. Perhaps if you all could frame the issues of what's going on...it might reach across the aisle.

Since you are a DU'er you already understand that so many of us "MARCHED IN STREETS" before this Iraq Invasion was underway...and we are very angry at always being left out of the debate and always put on the back burner by our party...even as they "pretend to listen to us."

"Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures"......I'm not sure where this quote is from...but, I've remembered it all my life. We are in Desperate Times...

[redqueen]

240. Oh yes, I agree with you completely...

we should never piss off republicans!

How will we ever triangulate ourselves back into their good graces?
:sarcasm:



I love how you NEVER see republicans saying bullshit like this... oh noes! We done pissed off those moderate dems! Now our blue state pukes are in trouble! Whatever shall we DOOOOOOO?!


:eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

256. Not THOSE Republicans. THESE Repubicans

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RepublicansForIntegrity/

http://groups.myspace.com/RepublicansForIntegrity

[redqueen]

258. Those republicans buy into rightwing mighty wurlitzer spin?

Integrity my ass. And their sites are on myspace and yahoo... so... how is that such a critically HUGE voting bloc?

[LittleClarkie]

260. They are enough to swing an election.

And I would think that Eisenhower Republicans decidedly do NOT buy into the spin. Or they wouldn't be questioning their own party.

I'm just showing you who I mean. I'm sure that's not ALL of them.

There were enough of them for the Kerry campaign to print up Republicans for Kerry stickers. There were enough of them that I was able to find several sources to hand campaign organizers so that they could go after those disenfranchised Republican.

[redqueen]

262. That's what I mean though, about the spin... if they don't buy it...

then what's the big brouhaha over code pink? It's not a Dem group, it's an anti-war group... so what gives? Either they're idiots who buy spin and therefore I doubt they EVER even seriously considered voting for a Dem, or they're not and no votes lost.

:shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

274. Thing is, what is the 50 state strategy all about if not being competitive

in area like the one Saracat is working in. Taking a moderate Republican who might still be half sheeple and helping them to realize that the Dem Party is where they really want to be.

[redqueen]

341. I just don't know if anyone who believes spin

as ridiculous as that... that the actions Code Pink warrant voting for a different party... I don't think I'd consider them "half sheeple"... sorry, but seems to me those are full-blown backwash freeptard types. And I'm not about to start trying to cater to their idiotic whims.

[LittleClarkie]

246. Code Pink is not a Democratic organization.

Just as the people who picketed Terry Schiavo's hospice were not necessarily a Republican group.

Would that work? Reminding them that there are groups that are vaguely attached to the Republican Party, and probably vote Republican, that would have these people cringing as well?

Wearing pink tutus and tiaras vs having Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

248. Instead of worrying about how to win over Republicans,

your husband should be worrying about how to win over the may disillusioned people who don't vote at all because they think that neither party has anything to offer them.

Besides, people fighting the powers that be NEED to be uppity, especially when the political parties refuse to represent them.

Would you have told the African-Americans of the 1950s, "You're making it hard for me to get the white vote with your sitting in at lunch counters"?

[saracat]

254. We have tried that in the party for 30 years! It doesn't work!

But you know best I am sure!

[redqueen]

257. What? Which 30 years are you talking about?

I'm damn sure you don't mean the last 30... cause we've been moving right that entire time... giving people LESS options, not more.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

261. The Dem establishment has made the false assumption

(one in line with the thinking of their corporate masters) that people who don't vote don't vote because the Dems are "too liberal" for them.

Well, if they wanted conservative candidates, the Republicans already exist.

Could it be that the non-voters are beyond right and left and are not voting because the neither the Dems nor the Republicanites are talking about the issues that really concern them? Could it be that the non-voters feel that their luck doesn't change, no matter who is in office?

[redqueen]

263. Well obviously that's what it is...

Healthcare is in shambles... job losses continue... home ownership declining.

Yeah... of course non affiliated voters want more corporatist suck ups. :crazy:

[ulysses]

392. THANK YOU

:)

[sufrommich]

259. The lunch counter sit down was one

of the most dignified and solemn protests of our time. So powerful that it captured the attention and sympathies of a vast number of Americans who never looked at the right to dignity quite the same way again.
Rosa Parks quietly sitting at the front of the bus was effective,so was Cindy Sheehan sitting in front of Bush's ranch with a hand lettered sign asking why her son died . Protest marches with hundreds of thousands of people from all strata of American life is effective.Disrupting a Democratic hearing on the war in Iraq by trying to shout down the speakers and wearing pink tiaras is just dumb.Obviously,the have every right to protest as they see fit,but their effectiveness is questionable.

[ShortnFiery]

266. Heaven forbid that those Blacks and Women don't know what is "dignified"

:eyes:

http://www.duke.edu/~ldbaker/classes/AAIH/caaih/ibwells/ibwbkgrd.html

Ida B. Wells-Barnett was a fearless anti-lynching crusader, suffragist, women's rights advocate, journalist, and speaker. She stands as one of our nation's most uncompromising leaders and most ardent defenders of democracy. She was born in Holly Springs, Mississippi in 1862 and died in Chicago, Illinois 1931 at the age of sixty-nine.

It was in Memphis where she first began to fight (literally) for racial and gender justice. In 1884 she was asked by the conductor of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad Company to give up her seat on the train to a white man and ordered her into the smoking or "Jim Crow" car, which was already crowded with other passengers. Despite the 1875 Civil Rights Act banning discrimination on the basis of race, creed, or color, in theaters, hotels, transports, and other public accommodations, several railroad companies defied this congressional mandate and racially segregated its passengers. It is important to realize that her defiant act was before Plessy v. Ferguson (1896), the U.S. Supreme Court decision that established the fallacious doctrine of "separate but equal," which constitutionalized racial segregation. Wells wrote in her autobiography:

I refused, saying that the forward car was a smoker, and as I was in the ladies' car, I proposed to stay. . . tried to drag me out of the seat, but the moment he caught hold of my arm I fastened my teeth in the back of his hand. I had braced my feet against the seat in front and was holding to the back, and as he had already been badly bitten he didn't try it again by himself. He went forward and got the baggageman and another man to help him and of course they succeeded in dragging me out.

Wells was forcefully removed from the train and the other passengers--all whites--applauded. When Wells returned to Memphis, she immediately hired an attorney to sue the railroad. She won her case in the local circuit courts, but the railroad company appealed to the Supreme Court of Tennessee, and it reversed the lower court's ruling. This was the first of many struggles Wells engaged, and from that moment forward, she worked tirelessly and fearlessly to overturn injustices against women and people of color.

[sufrommich]

267. Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem?

[ShortnFiery]

268. No, I'm making a point that NOT all EFFECTIVE protests need be "dignified" -YOUR arbitrary standard

Have a great evening bud. ;)

[LittleClarkie]

269. Code Pink isn't even in the same league as the likes of Rosa Parks or MLK

or anyone else you want to bring up out of the civil rights movement.

I swear, the Republicans dream of refighting WWII, and some of the Progressives dream of refighting the civil rights struggle. They attempt to draw glory out of an earlier time.

[ShortnFiery]

270. I never claimed they were, but they do serve a valuable purpose ...

by keeping in the face of the waffling and warmongering politicians in order end the bloodbath that is The Iraqi Occupation. :patriot:

[saracat]

276. They only serve to make the GOP look good! They defeat their own purpose.

The only people they impress are those that already agree with them.That is not constructive or effective!

[niceypoo]

282. Code Pink is democracy, remember democracy?

This is what happens in a democracy, people dare to be heard. People are willing to go out on a limb and go to jail to be heard. Those people are hero's. The late 60 brought a lot of them. They eventually ended that war and changed society, even though they pissed off the conservatives of their day.

Other people have bought so far into the plastic, phony, media driven hype and, "If we do this, they will just say that," bullcrap that their brains have turned to mush. These people are so paralyzed by the hype and the fear that they become frozen in irrelevance. This thread is a perfect example of what transpires when a person becomes paralyzed by such fear and buys into the corporate media hype.

[saracat]

283. I am paralyzed by fear because I think Code Pink look like clowns and reflect badly on

liberals and the anti-war movement? Democracy is also my right to express that they look like idiots and are disaffecting people instead of converting them!

[ShortnFiery]

284. IMO, the only people who use Code Pink as an excuse to vote republican are EXACTLY

those who choose to nurture that fear. :wow: Many of us dyed in the wool liberals are NOT a part of Code Pink but, none-the-less will low crawl over broken glass before we disrespect their courage and efforts to wake up the congress-critters, and thus help bring the Iraqi Occupation to an end. Code Pink's goal is TRUE. :patriot:

[Name removed]

292. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

307. Yer mama dresses you funny and she never, ever liked you

Ever.

[FredScuttle]

285. They serve to make the GOP look good?

The only way they could make the GOP look good is by tapping three times on the bathroom floor, waving their hands under the stall three times, then yelling "HEY....CAN I GIVE YOU A BLOWJOB?"

[Ignis]

350. "They only serve to make the GOP look good!" Really?

Are you honestly attempting to argue that the only result of Code Pink protest actions is that they "make the GOP look good?"

Not one of the results, mind you, but the ONLY result? :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

344. No, they're more like the women's sufferage movement

When decades of common sense and dignified protests didn't get through to legislators, women's rights activists resorted to all kinds of "undignified" stunts such as chaining themselves to the gates of public buildings, running onto racetracks during races, going on hunger strikes, and in general making pests of themselves.

Funny thing, it was only after they dropped their "dignity" that they got results.

By the way, those "silly" pink costumes are obviously meant to represent the Statue of Liberty.

[onenote]

374. history lesson

The more flamboyant wing of the suffrage movement, represented by Alice Paul and Lucy Burns did garner attention and move the movement forward somewhat. But what ultimately led to the enactment of the 19th Amendment was the more "conservative" leadership of Carrie Chapman Catt, who unlike Paul and BUrns, supported US involvement in WWI, thereby cultivating the political support of Woodrow Wilson. This culminated in Wilson announcing his support for the 19th Amendment.

The militancy of Paul and Burns helped in the earlier stages of the movement, but it took Catt's strategy to get results.

[sampsonblk]

418. That's the ticket

If you take today's Democratic Party swing vote strategy and place in at any time in history, it will be shown for what it is.

'If you guys keep bringing up (slavery, civil rights, women's suffrage, etc), we'll lose the moderates!'

[FredScuttle]

287. Your beef should be with A.N.S.W.E.R.

not with Code Pink

[saracat]

321. I do not care for them either but ANSWER was not what people were talking about!

They saw Code Pink on TV.

[MasonJar]

288. Republicans who demean a group of Americans who are exercising

their right of free speech would do well to remember that it is their onery voting that got us in this mess. George W Bushista and Dick Chainy'all are only in power because of GOPer voters and the GOPer yes men in Congress; they have a nerve criticizing anyone ever again. Their voice will never influence me again. I suggest that the next time you hear these sociopathic liars criticizing their fellow citizens you give them a lesson in citizenship. They aren't going to vote democratic anyway.

[noamnety]

298. Wow, that is a huge coincidence

Here you are, a person who has been incredibly vocal for quite some time against Code Pink, and all these random people at the polls just happen to come up to you at the polling place itself to tell you out of the blue that they are thinking of changing their votes specifically because of Code Pink!

What are the odds? ;)

[smalll]

309. Serious, sober, and eloquent the way only truth can be -

take a K, take an R!

Bi-coastal trustafarians who only vote for "hip" candidates (viz., not Hillary) need to get smacked upside the head by electoral reality.

I bow down.

[LittleClarkie]

310. Amen

Truth doesn't need a pink tiara.

Well... except for the Hillary part. I ain't necessarily voting for her either in the primary.

[ShortnFiery]

339. Here's a double barreled "Dose of Truth" for you - NOT dignified nor sober.

[LittleClarkie]

373. Those people deserve better than self-righteous clowns in tiaras

Let them enjoy their little drama. But they better be helping instead of hindering the peace movement or they can blame themselves as much as anyone when it takes years to get out of Iraq.

[Reterr]

327. Huh-their reaction seems extremely illogical at best

I mean look at what we have going on here: the Republicans start and sponsor this insane war, there are layers of scandals by now in just about every area you could have problems in, but because these people
are viscerally revolted by Code Pink, they decide the Dems "look stupid" and won't vote for them?

They sound like Republicans alright in terms of their priorities :crazy:


Look I am not even some huge fan of Code Pink's tactics -I hugely admire their dedication, their approach isn't what I would consider ideal, but at the end of the day they are putting in a lot of effort into this and that is admirable.

Regardless, anyone who makes a decision against voting for Democrats because they think Code Pink ( a group that is at best only peripherally associated with Dems) is "silly" and so decide to continue to vote for the Insane Party, their votes are not something you can look on as in the bag in any case. They might have a freak-out just before the election because of Britney's nipple and be offended that the Dem nominee didn't issue a strongly worded statement on Britney's nipple.

Clearly their priorities are insane-like those of most Republicans.

Whether you like Code Pink or not, to blame them because some people are going to be that ignorant in the way they vote doesn't make much sense to me :shrug:. This is not in anyway something that should bias a voting decision. No educated voter would assume Code Pink==The Democratic Party, much less that Code Pink's dress sense or decorum or whatever is the most important issue around and not climate change, the war, the economy etc. etc.

[saracat]

330. What makes you think most voters are "educated" ?

[IndianaGreen]

331. Why are you defending the man that Admiral Fallon described as "an ass-kissing little chickenshit"?

Petraeus has a history of propaganda! Back in May 2003 he announced with lots of fanfare that he had discovered WMD mobile lab trailers hidden in the desert. The transcript of the press conference he held in Mosul is still posted on the Pentagon's website (I posted it on a thread this week).

Petraeus lied to Congress when he said violence was lower, and he mislead the public when he said that some troops will return home next summer (they were due to rotate anyway at the end of their 15-month tour).

To a direct question by Sen. John Warner, Petraeus could not even say that we were made safer by the war in Iraq.

Petraeus' mission is to keep our troops getting killed and wounded until Bush leaves office. Is this the man you are defending?

Back in the 1980s, Act Up made a pest out of themselves, but they made the public aware of the AIDS crisis. Code Pink is rubbing our collective noses in that Iraq War pile of dung we have in the living room that we refuse to acknowledge. The American people are too busy going shopping or following the adventures of media personalities to give a thought to the war. They have no stake in the war. The Iraq War has only touched military families, while the rest of the country goes blissfully on its merry way. Code Pink is a slap in the face to wake us from our self-induced stupor.

[LittleClarkie]

332. Where do you see that she's defending the man?

She isn't, actually. Read the OP again.

[IndianaGreen]

387. By attacking Petraeus' critics, she is defending the lying general

Petraeus is responsible for the surge, and for the lost lives and lies that resulted from it.

[paulk]

400. you've got to be kidding

that answer would get you laughed right out of debate 101...


attacking code pink = defending Gen. Petraeus.

LOL!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

333. DU is full of people who'd rather fight than win.

Code Pink attack the enemy. Therefor, by the thinking of many DUers, they must be a good thing, irrespective of whether that attack does more good or more harm.

I do not think this is a sensible way of thinking.

Which is not to say, incidentally, that the Code Pink video definately did more harm than good - if I had to guess, I would say that it probably did, but I don't know enough to make an informed judgement in this specific case. But if it did, it's just one more example, and even if it didn't there are still plenty of others.

[jmp]

342. Dems "won" in '06 ... what good did it do?

Some things aren't negotiable. Some things you don't compromise or equivocate over.

When it comes to Iraq ... Code Pink speaks for me.

[sampsonblk]

385. Some would rather fight than concede on everything

I think Code Pink often goes too far. But please don't forget that we are in a fight against a bitter, ruthless enemy. And the GOP will stop at nothing.

If we don't fight, we lose. And deservedly so. They are dancing in our friggin end zone. And to them our party is a joke because we won't even stand up against them when we are 100% right. And some still counsel weakness??? Only in America.

[Solon]

334. I say the OP is full of shit...

its either that, or those so called "Moderate Repubs" are full of shit, and wouldn't have voted Democratic in the first place.

As far as Code Pink, they do NOT exist to promote the Democratic Party, period, I don't see why the fuck you would think they SHOULD act that way, it is not their purpose.

[chill_wind]

337. "Truth Doesn't Need a Pink Tiara." Post of the day.

Thank you LittleClarkie. IMO, they might as well shed the prom queen garb and streaked across the room for the cameras naked, for all the more effective their message was.

An incoherent message, by the way, which no one HEARD a word of, even though they staged their performances to take individual turns. (see their website).

Some things work. Some things don't. This sure didn't.

I'm all for the message. Just not the half-baked medium, which seemed more dominated by ego than concerns for outcome or success.

[ShortnFiery]

338. Yes, but they sure snagged your attention. I'd rather "be pink" than "yellow bellied"

;) OMG! The people in pink tiaras are coming - stop them! For the love of God, those people are not appropriate!

All this FEAR and ANGST for an anti-war group, who by definition, seeks to glean attention to themselves and get arrested (non-violent resistance) reminds me of the movie "Serial Mom."

You be dignified and don't you DARE tell us anti-war liberals to vote for your warmongering or gutless DLC candidates come 2008. It just won't happen. :thumbsdown:

[chill_wind]

345. Sigh. I wouldn't presume to tell you or ANYONE at DU "who to vote for".

And absolutely nothing in my remarks here could be construed as any such thing. Especially since I haven't begun to figure out yet who *I* plan to vote for. The best I can tell you about that, is that I would like to be able to vote for the candidate who can convince me he or she will get us out of Iraq the fastest. My affinities here have always been with those most vocal on the antiwar front-- I've had plenty to say about the war-mongerers all across our gov't, as well the gutless DLC, so don't be taking my personal inventory on the basis of one single discussion issue (Code Pink) and assuming I'm yet another across the board Centrist. You would be very wrong.

I've never been about
My Country - Right or Wrong
My Party- Right or Wrong
My Leaning's Fringe Group Methodoligies- Right or Wrong.


Some I can respect. Some I don't, and I reserve the right to say so.

[ShortnFiery]

347. "I haven't begun to figure out yet who *I* plan to vote for."

That may not be the definition of "a centrist" but it speaks volumes in many different ways. I'd suggest your personality will not permit you to be an activist. I can respect that as long as you hesitate to judge people who do have the persona and compassion to actually DO SOMETHING in an attempt to end these insane occupations of sovereign countries THOUSANDS of MILES from America's borders.

Best regards, a fiery activist (but not of the Code Pink type) who has marched for peace. ;)

[saracat]

351. Wow. Psychoanalyzing over an Internet Board! And a person you have never met

and whose name you do not know! Wow! You are better than Frist. You understand the poster better than they understand themselves.Obviously any "undecided primary voter" has "issues" that "prevent them from being an activist".How the hell do you know whether this person is an "activist?" All "activist" have not chosen a candidate and not all "activists" support Code Pink. The poster may also be an "activist " for another cause than your own.Your "analysis " of this poster is really midget minded!

[chill_wind]

352. More of the grossly presumptuous and wild non-sequitors

One can be still be weighing, and be less than completely thrilled in all ways with the current array of candidates and campaigns so far- and still oppose the war.

One can be activist in many directions, by many various means, and still not worship the existence of Code Pink.

You know, the other day, I was watching the hearings part of the time-- listening only at other parts of the time. I wanted to HEAR these ladies raise all manner of *articulate* HELL. I wanted repeatable sound bytes- quotable quotes! Some serious jingoism, a memorable, coherent message in their own voices and words no corporatist toading MSM could effectively twist or mangle. They each had a few seconds to make such a case.

If you're going to strike at the KING------

You know what? They SUCKED!! They freely handed the MSM all the giggles and stupid talking points about us-- "the loony fringe antiwar left"--they could have ever wanted.

"What my personality doesn't permit me to be" is a cheerleader for the truly flakey and the counterproductive, no matter all the sanctimonious and conventional me-too wisdom flowing so freely here and how fucking fashionable it's supposed to be.

The pink tiaras and tutus were cute, though.

::sarcasm::

[ShortnFiery]

355. You know, I understand that the truth hurts.

Yes, I accept your apology. ;) :yoiks:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

346. I remembered something last night

What Code Pink did at the hearings was actually very brave and risky. (By the way, it was obvious to me that their "silly" costumes were meant to represent the Statue of Liberty.)

During the Iran-Contra hearings, a man in the audience stood up and called out, "Ask about the drugs!"

Committee Chairman Inoue (a Dem!) ordered him removed from the room.

Later, the man was sentenced to what seemed like an excessive prison term. I can't find anything on Google, but I remember that it was about a year--just for trying to get the Iran-Contra committee to look at the elephant in the room.

When officialdom is complicit and politeness doesn't work, I give credit to the feisty ones who are willing to take considerable risks to bring their message to public attention.

In the context, your little local election is insignificant, especially if you're so willing to diss people who are devoting their lives to ending the war crimes being perpetrated by the U.S.

[saracat]

349. "all politics is local" and local politics shape your lives more than DC

unless you are an activist for a cause.And I am willing "to diss people who are devoting their lives to ending the war crimes being perpetrated by the U.S." because they are both ineffective and like some are perfectly willing to diss the efforts of hardworking people who are trying everyday to make our world a better place in our "insignificant little local elections" that are the cornerstone of Democracy! Running local elections is what Democracy is about not wearing pink tiaras ,screeching and getting your picture in the paper!

[ShortnFiery]

358. There has to be something MORE to all the hate you spew toward Code Pink than is apparent.

Did someone from the Code Pink organization mess with you or yours on a personal level? Really - HONESTLY, I'm not understanding all this HATE for an small anti-war group NOT affiliated with the Democratic Party?!?

No, you were right, in a way, with your post above: We just don't get "The Hate." :shrug:

[saracat]

360. I don't hate Code Pink.I dislike their actions and how they reflect on others.

What I don't get is someone trying to "force" me to accept their actions and consider them to be right.You have gone so far as to intimate I am lying and to accuse other posters of having personalities that don't "allow'" them to be activists" if they don't agree with Code Pink.There has been much said and I do not accept your viewpoint.We disagree.I have explained my reasons time and again.I am a liberal and I do not accept stupidity as a mantra I have to accept in order to claim that name for myself.I do not understand the "HATE " for anyone who does not support the silliness of Code Pink.

[ShortnFiery]

361. With respect,, every one of your posts within this thread is dripping with HATRED for Code Pink.

I'm sorry to convey this to you but I doubt too many folks would doubt the above statement.

There's something else going on that we are NOT privy to ... that's cool by me though. :-)

[saracat]

363. Would you like me to point out the "hate" spewing from almost all of your posts?

There is a lot going on with you that is not what it seems as well.And, with,respect, there are as many folks who question your motives as do mine.You have repeatedly impugneed the character of any poster who disagrees with you.That is NOT cool.

[ShortnFiery]

365. No, it's not hatred exactly, it's resentment toward "Serial Mom" personas who wish

to dictate to the populace like a nanny as to what behavior IS or IS NOT appropriate in public.

I resent authoritarian memes of "Miss Manners" arbitrary "value judgments."

You spend all this effort to TRASH people who have the same goal and you DARE to call me full of hate?!? :wtf:

THAT'S A HOOT!!! :rofl:

[saracat]

367. I dictate to NO one.I have an opinion and it is as valid as yours.

What about all the effort you spend to trash me? and anyone who disagrees with you? Look up thread and read the hate in your posts, even this one "Serial Mom"? You make a lot of references that are just filled with contempt for ordinary folks.You are always associating people with being "elite" or dissociated with the"wage slaves". Sounds like I am not the one with the problem.

[ShortnFiery]

Well, your arbitrary definitions of what poses a dignified vs. non-dignified behavior

is very reminiscent of Kathleen Turner's character in "Serial Mom." However, in her defense she was a very charming and physically attractive character. :shrug:

[saracat]

379. People in glass houses ought not to throw stones.I have said it before.Do you have a mirror?

[LittleClarkie]

370. No she's just presenting an unpopular opinion

That's about it.

[saracat]

376. What bothers her is it isn't unpopular with "everyone"'! There are quite a few posters supporting

my position and the same few supporting Fiery! And Jon Stewart doesn't like her! la! la! la!

[ShortnFiery]

378. How Impolite to talk such smack! What would mother think?

:eyes: How very mature - now I think, pink tiaras or not Code Pink is behaving in a more mature manner than the two of us? :rofl:

[saracat]

382. Yes it is impolite to notice that you are not the only one with an opinion?

One should always assume their opinion is the only one that counts because frequently it is the only one one listens to anyway! :sarcasm: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Now remove that tiara, wash your hands, and sit down and behave yourself!Have a cookie!

[ShortnFiery]

383. I will admit that I greatly resent it when people attempt to DEMAND how others should behave ...

you know that whole, First Amendment thing? That's not opinion but an AUTHORITARIAN mindset. :(

BTW, Aren't you late to your cocktail party?

Be sure to tell Tweety hi for me. ;)

[saracat]

388. See whats funny is I don't like it either when people DEMAND to control how I think! I am late.

I have to stop and pick up my tiara at the dollar store on the way! My old one broke when someone sat on it at the last party! :rofl: :rofl: Perhaps it was Tweety?

[ShortnFiery]

389. Sincere best regards. Yes, opinions are cool but demands on behavior ...

are not. On that one element, we agree.

Have a good one - it's been real. :hi:

[BigDDem]

364. I see Karl Rove left you his playbook, how nice

[ShortnFiery]

366. How lovely of you to say. Would you pass the finger sandwiches?

:eyes:

[saracat]

368. Certainly but you must remove your tiara while eating at the table!

[ShortnFiery]

375. Only if you promise to put those scissors away?

:spray:

[saracat]

377. I can't stay.I must be off to the "political cocktail circuit" you say I belong to.

[ShortnFiery]

380. I'm so relieved that you never wear white shoes - since it's after Labor Day.

:hi: ;)

[saracat]

381. Never.Even before.So tacky you know! Halston preached one should always wear beige

with beige hose and black with black and brown with brown etc to lengthen the leg! great man Halston.Designed Jackie's hats.

[LittleClarkie]

369. She hates America too

She hates the president.

AND she hates freedom.

[JVS]

390. Since Moderate Democrats helped start the war that they're protesting, I doubt they give a shit

[sniffa]

393. thank you code pink

for turning some peopLe into hystericaL banshees. i may have to send them money.

[mdmc]

398. kick

for the sanity of it all...

[mdmc]

401. kick

:kick:

[Moochy]

394. They R makin Me and Rupert Look Bad!

Thus SPAKE 44!!!

[mdmc]

396. why not run as a Republican or as a Con-Dem?

I live in a conservative district myself. Whoever wins the GOP primary always wins the county wide general election races.
If a qualified Dem can't win in your area (just like mine), why not run as a GOP? There really is no difference.

If code pink can turn off voters in your area, then you need to act against that. Either attack code pink, or join the GOP. The later may just get you elected.

And, in the end, if your hubby is the best candidate, wouldn't you rather have him elected (as a code pink basher, or as a republican, or as both)? He doesn't need to win as a dem, he just needs to win.

Once he wins he can put in to practice all those things that it means to be a democrat.

How does that sound my friend?

[mdmc]

402. kick

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1836270

[az_sigo]

403. please forgive my interjection...

Unfortunately, I can't seem to begin a new topic because this is my first post. I'm an active duty Army officer who's a long time lurker on DU, and even longer Democratic party supporter. I have to throw this out. I was watching C-Span tonight and they were following John McCain's campaign. He had 6 NCO's from the local Manchester recruiting station, in uniform, in front of the crowd. They introduced themselves, and McCain started expounding on the benefits of the surge. In two weeks, I'll hit 20 years. Got back from Afghanistan last January. I've been active in Democratic politics since I was in high school but NEVER did I participate in uniform or even fathom the thought. The clip was from 14 Sep, and since I don't have the resources I would very much like the DUer's out there to email the different blogs and news sites. I've been quiet for too long, and I'm sick of being used as a photo op.

[mdmc]

420. welcome to DU brother

Peace and low stress

[ProudDad]

404. Aren't you one of those who get on Code Pink's case

'cause they're going after "Democrats"?

And now you're bent out of shape because of limited anecdotal "evidence" that a few republicans are turned off by Code Pink...

I've got an idea.

If you Dems in red states showed some back bone, made your candidate embrace and proclaim real progressive policy stands with courage and conviction (and not "triangulation" and "bipartisan" crap), the stands that most of the people in the U.S. say they believe in, you might get more traction than blaming one group of good women working for their ideals.


And you're even wrong here: "Candidates who need the votes of these moderate Republicans to get elected!"... Unless you're condemned to live in one of the few hard red states this is also BS. I can't think of ANY state that has a majority republican registration...compared to Dems + Independents...

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

405. Good ideas ProudDad.

Unfortunately that would fuck everything up. For some partisan Democrats it's easier to blame groups of well meaning and brave Americans then it is to blame lame Democrats who run shitty and ineffective campaigns.

[Yukari Yakumo]

406. Perhaps because

...Embracing the progressive ideology will cause those Dems to lose those seats.

Not every state is the same. Not even close. Far more states are rural (and therefore, generally red) than urban.

Oh, I do know of at least one solidly red state; Utah.

And don't count on always having the independents on your side.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

407. And "ebracing" the right wing ideology has?????? n/t

[ProudDad]

409. How do you know

they haven't tried since the Lyndon Johnson LANDSLIDE of 1964...

Since then they've been too busy making war and "triangulating" and "moving to the center"...

You'll be MUCH MORE LIKELY to attract independents if you had some Populist, Progressive PRINCIPLES and stuck by them...Kinda' like Kucinich has...

And the total population of absolutely Red States couldn't fill the SuperDome...Screw 'em...

[Eric J in MN]

408. What did they see Code Pink do which "revolted" them? NT

NT

[candymarl]

410. See John Kerry 2004

Who could have been more well spoken, moderate, non-flame throwing than Kerry? He served his country honorably and was wounded. He was a prosecutor who set up one of the first offices to help rape victims. He is polite, educated, and obviously loves his family. Heck his first wife STILL likes him They tried to get HER to trash him in 2004 and she wouldn't. He's stood up, by deeds and legislation, for the poor and the middle class.
By the time the Repubs got through with him he was a:
A. Wine swilling elitist.
B. A coward that DIDN'T serve his country honorably.
C. A person that hates all military folk.
D. A flip-flopper (even though he tried to pursue Iran-Contra and was shut down by his OWN party).
E. Someone who cared nothing for the poor, middle-class, or victims of crime.
F. Weak on defense (because obviously he knew NOTHING about war and fighting).

These people morphed Max Cleland into Osama and got away with it (and got people to vote against him because of it). I doubt Michael Moore and Code Pink are our biggest problems.

I agree with saracat that this stuff does trickle down to the local level. That's smart messaging and media control by the Repubs. Code Pink is not the cause of that. However, they may be one of the more "colorful" symptoms.

P.S. I had three nephews in the middle of this Iraq debacle. It's everyone's concern, even at the LOCAL level. As Thom Hartman says, it's about the "commons". We're all in this war at every level. I find it disturbing that it's NOT an issue, especially at the LOCAL level where most of the people fighting the war come from.

/Rant Off.

[erpowers]

417. Read the Newspaper-Ask Them Some Questions

Maybe the next time you talk to some Republicans you should tell them to read the newspaper a little more. A number of newspapers, or at least the Washington Post, have pointed out that at the least General Petraeus was being misleading in the way he talked about progress in Iraq. After telling them that you should ask them a few questions. Start by asking them if they are revolted by the Republicans who say the loss of our soldiers is not that big of a deal. Next ask them if they were revolted when many people at the 2004 Republican National Convention put purple heart bandaids on in an effort to insult John Kerry and make light of his being awarded three purple hearts. I tend to think what they did was more of an insult to soldiers than what Code Pink has done. Next ask them if they were revolted when Republicans put out an ad comparing Max Cleland, a man who lost three limbs in Vietnam, to terrorists.

Next you might also tell them that this country has a long history of people protesting. Code Pink was just doing what many other groups have done. In addition, in this country people have a right to call out their leader when they think the leadership is lying.