LA Times Poll: Clinton Appeals To Anti-War Democrats

[wyldwolf]

WASHINGTON -- -- Gayle Moore, an Iowa nurse, wants U.S. troops "out, out, out" of Iraq as soon as possible. Darleen McCarthy of South Carolina fears that Iraq is turning into "another Vietnam."

But when these two Democrats vote in January to help decide their party's 2008 presidential nominee, neither plans to support the self-styled antiwar candidates. Instead, they are siding with the one top contender who voted to authorize the invasion and has refused to apologize for that -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"It's just a gut feeling," said Moore, 53, a mother of five. "It's her experience."

A new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll of voters in key early primary states reveals that Moore and McCarthy are hardly alone. They represent a paradox of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination: Although a plurality of Democratic voters considers the Iraq war to be the most pressing issue facing the candidates, the more hawkish Clinton has found a sweet spot in the debate.

Many of those voters who want an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops support her candidacy and consider her best able to end the war, as do many who back a more gradual drawdown.

"It's just the way Hillary Clinton handles herself," said McCarthy, 55, who lives near Myrtle Beach. "She says what she wants, and I think she'll let the American people know exactly what's going on."

The findings help explain why the New York senator has built a strong lead over Democratic rivals who have made their opposition to the war the centerpiece of their campaigns -- and who have laid out more-detailed plans for quicker troop reductions.

The poll, which surveyed registered voters who planned to turn out for the primaries or caucuses in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, found that a plurality of Democratic primary or caucus voters in each state thought Clinton would be "the best at ending the war in Iraq" -- 33% in Iowa, 32% in New Hampshire and 36% in South Carolina. Clinton holds substantial leads even among voters who listed the war as the top priority facing the candidates.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clinton13sep13,1,3833607.story?track=crosspromo&coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

[lapfog_1]

1. I would certainly hope so!

Considering that there really aren't that many PRO-WAR democrats!

:grr:

[ronnykmarshall]

2. The LA Times

Yet another prawn of the DLC and KKKarl.

[Tellurian]

50. hee! ..ronnyk...

"Obama tried again Wednesday to turn his war stance to his advantage, delivering a speech in Iowa that called for a troop drawdown to begin immediately and be completed next year. He did not mention Clinton's name, but ridiculed "conventional thinking in Washington" that he said "lined up for war" and led Congress to support President Bush's plans because lawmakers feared the political consequences of doing otherwise.

"I made a different judgment," Obama said. No, Bama, you never had to make a judgment! Big difference!

But the new survey results suggest that even if Obama's views more closely match those of many primary and caucus voters, he is not necessarily going to benefit.

The poll, which surveyed registered voters who planned to turn out for the primaries or caucuses in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, found that a plurality of Democratic primary or caucus voters in each state thought Clinton would be "the best at ending the war in Iraq" -- 33% in Iowa, 32% in New Hampshire and 36% in South Carolina. Clinton holds substantial leads even among voters who listed the war as the top priority facing the candidates."

[MNDemNY]

69. The LA Times is a shrimp?

[ShortnFiery]

3. OMG!

You folks owe me a new keyboard. :spray: :rofl: :spray:

[BeyondGeography]

4. All the "trusting" quotes are from older women

One is 53, the other 55, and the other who wouldn't give her age. They're thinking more with their hearts than their heads, in my view, but they won't easily be moved.

[wyldwolf]

6. and their votes count just as much as obviously smarter men who think with their brains...

:sarcasm:

:eyes:

[calimary]

40. Those must be the brains in their "other" head.

But why don't they go with all those aging little boys running around with their pop guns and their tin-foil breast plates and their tough-guy play-acting and their daddy complexes, like you find coming out of that other party? :eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

72. Well it's all about the young and hip!

Those "old" people really don't count, ya know!

:eyes:

[Missy M]

16. We older women think with our heads all the time.....

I resent your remark and with an attitude like that I will never be moved. I could add that saying "youth is wasted on the young".

[BeyondGeography]

20. The women quoted in the article are portraits of blind faith and vacuity

Their feelings about Hillary and the war are about as well thought-out as your post.

[Missy M]

36. I hardly think your 1st post was well thought out....

and the way the polls are going right now, you are the one who is a portrait of blind faith. The women quoted in the article have a right to their way of thinking even if it doesn't go along with yours. It seems your candidates latest plan for the war isn't exactly anything new and improved, in fact it seems vacuous.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Here are their quotes

"It's just a gut feeling," said Moore, 53, a mother of five. "It's her experience."

"It's just the way Hillary Clinton handles herself," said McCarthy, 55, who lives near Myrtle Beach. "She says what she wants, and I think she'll let the American people know exactly what's going on."

Explaining why she will back Clinton, Corson said: "She's smart. She knows how the system works."

Acts of faith throughout; and indicative of a real strength that Hillary has among women, particularly older women, which has already been documented. She connects on a visceral level with many of them and it shows in this article. I acknowledge that this is one of her key strengths and it shows every sign of enduring, but if you think this makes her the ideal candidate on the war that she authorized, alternatively supported and criticized depending on which way the political winds were blowing and for which she has yet to offer a detailed plan to conclude, congratulations.

[zulchzulu]

51. I've run into many older women who will never vote for a Clinton again

Granted, they are from all over the country...

Whatever.

[BeyondGeography]

57. This is where she's winning right now, like it or not

Clinton Owes Lead in Poll To Support From Women

The consistent lead that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York has maintained over Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and others in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination is due largely to one factor: her support from women.

In the most recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, Clinton led Obama by a 2 to 1 margin among female voters. Her 15-point lead in the poll is entirely attributable to that margin. Clinton drew support from 51 percent of the women surveyed, compared with 24 percent who said they supported Obama and 11 percent who said they backed former senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

Clinton is drawing especially strong support from lower-income, lesser-educated women -- voters her campaign strategists describe as "women with needs." Obama, by contrast, is faring better among highly educated women, who his campaign says are interested in elevating the political discourse.

..."Women are a significant proportionate share of the Democratic primary electorate in most of these states, and women are disproportionately in favor of Hillary Clinton," said Mark Mellman, a veteran Democratic pollster who is not affiliated with any presidential campaign.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/11/AR2007061102216_pf.html

And, if the quality of the thinking reflected in this article is any indication at all, HRC's support with many women is issues-resistant on the question of Iraq with many of the women who are supporting her.

[durrrty libby]

81. "thinking more with their hearts than their heads"

No, they are thinking with their immense life experience.
It's a combo thing.(head and heart)

Their gender and age group are a huge voting block, and if they have made up their mind,

Hillary is the next president

[MadHound]

5. You can fool some of the people some of the time. . .

Sorry, but Hillary isn't the anti-war candidate that is being portrayed here, nor will she bring the troops home, at least not right away. She has stated that she would be keeping some undefined number of troops in Iraq for some undefined period of time if she is elected. She enabled Bushboy's war by voting for the IWR, and continues her ongoing support for it by voting to fund it. Hillary as an anti-war candidate, HAH, that's a stretch.

My question is why should any person committed to peace vote for her? If she was, as she claimed, fooled by Bushco into voting for the IWR, then do we really need somebody that stupid in the highest office in the land?(really now, fooled by Bush? That's just sad) The only other conclusion is that for personal and political reasons she voted a cold, calculating vote for the IWR, and that too is a very good reason to vote for her.

I find it amusing some of the lengths that Hillary supporters will go to drum up support. Hillary as the anti-war favorite:rofl:

[wyldwolf]

7. I find it amusing you somehow know the author of the LA Times piece is a Hillary supporter

:rofl:

[MadHound]

9. What makes you think I was referring to the author

I wasn't, I was referring to you, and how you desperately and continously post these pro Hillary pieces, even if they stretch credibility to the limit, all in an effort to get one more backer in your Hillary uber alles campaign.

[Kolesar]

8. Pelosi and Kucinich and Strickland and Kaptur and Brown were not "too stupid" to vote for the IWR

And every one of those representatives were up for election that fall. And Strickland, Kaptur, and Brown did not have "safe seats" that were easily defended from gop opponents.
I'm not :ROFL:, I'm :puke: at Clinton

[MadHound]

11. Oh I hear you, which is one of the big reasons I support Kucinich

I just find it amusing, and amazing the depths of hypocrisy that some of the Hillary supporters will go to around here in order to drum up support. This latest one, Hillary as the candidate for peace, is just a prize winner, really. Doublespeak on the order of Bushco is what it is.

[Carolina]

89. great post

Couldn't agree more with: "really now, fooled by Bush? That's just sad." How could such an allegedly smart person be fooled by such an idiot? It's more than sad. It's absurd and downright criminal considering what this befoolment (befuddlement ...an excuse by her and others) has wrought for Iraq, for our military, for our world standing, for our treasury, for our security, for generations to come...

Hillary as the anti-war favorite? Spare me...
Hillary because someone has a gut feeling? Gas is a gut feeling ...
Hillary for president? HELL NO

DISCLAIMER to those who would flame me: I am a lifelong Dem who supported and remembers JFK!

[IndianaJones]

10. because she's anti-war. There is a reason for her domination in the polls. nt.

[MadHound]

12. Are you saying that with a straight face? Do you honestly believe that?

You are claiming that Hillary is the anti-war candidate despite her vote for the IWR, her refusal to apologize for it, her ongoing support for the war, and her claim that she will keep an undefined number of troops in Iraq for an undefined period of time if she is elected.:wow: Quick, let me sell you a bridge, some fine ocean front property in Kansas, something, everything, because as they say, a sucker is born every minute, and friend, your minute is here.

Hillary as the anti-war candidate:rofl: Talk about grasping:rofl:

[IndianaJones]

13. I didn't say she was the anti-war candidate. I said she was anti-war.

But the smilies sure score you some cool points with the Hillary hating crowd. Ain't it gonna suck for you when she's your President?

[MadHound]

14. Can I have some of what you're smoking then?

How can you honestly, with a straight face look at Hillary's actions and statements, which I outlined just a few above, and state that she is anti-war? Really, are you that naive?

As far as sucking for me if Hillary is elected, yes, it will suck. It's going to suck for all of us friend because what don't need, a war mongering corporate whore in office is exactly what we'll get with Hillary.

[IndianaJones]

15. If you talk to Hillary haters long enough...the real reason for their hate always comes out. nt.

[MadHound]

18. Ooo, can you tell me what my real reason is oh Great Swami? I need some more laughs today.

Between Hillary as anti-war(which I notice that you're not backing up with any sort of facts, wonder why:think:) and your self proclaimed ability to divine peoples' motivations, this is becoming quite the interesting thread. So please, enlighten me, I'm waiting on pins and needles here.

[IndianaJones]

21. because she's a whore of course. and you seem to hate whores of various kinds. nt.

[MadHound]

22. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is so precious,

You know nothing about me, nor my background, yet you claim to divine my motivations, my likes and dislikes. OK, let me put this into easy terms for you to understand.

I am specifically referring to corporate whores, you know, politicians who sell themselves out to the highest bidder. Corporate whores have absolutely no relation to regular prostitutes, who actually have more integrity and honesty that a corporate whore ever can or ever will have. As far as "hating whores of various kinds," well that is simply untrue. Though I've never patronized a prostitute, I've known and been friends with a few, helped some out, and generally consider them to be decent people for the most part. You are correct however, I do hate one type of whore, and that's the corporate whore, the person who sells out their political power to the highest corporate bidder. You know why I hate that sort of corporate whore? Because they are selling you, me and the rest of this country down the river for their filthy lucre. Get the picture now?

So what other great claims are you going to make about me, that I'm anti-woman because I used the word "whore"? Please do, I need some more amusement this morning and that would be a great claim for you to make, given your absolutely zero(0) knowledge of me.

Or do you care to back up your claim that somehow, someway Hillary is anti-war?

[IndianaJones]

24. sure you are. you got the justification thing down pat. I'll give you that. nt.

[MadHound]

27. Sure I am what? Your post is a little unclear, perhaps you should expand it

Beyond the subject line, thanks

[IndianaJones]

28. specifically referring to corporate whores. nt.

[MadHound]

32. Ah, OK now, you're going beyond humor and into speaking in cryptic tongues

Is this your Delphic Oracle phase?

Anyway, yes, I specifically hate, loathe and despise corporate whores, no matter what their sex or political stripe is. The fact that you're trying to imply something else with your cryptic phrasing simply shows how little basis in fact that you have. And frankly, if you are going to accuse me of hating women, have the courage of your convictions and be up front about it rather than beating around the bush.

And again, back to Hillary, can you present evidence, any evidence, that Hillary is anti-war? Or is this more of that Delphic Oracle divination of yours?

[IndianaJones]

33. Again, I am sure you hate only that kind of whore. nt.

[MadHound]

35. Good, now that that is settled, can we get back to the original topic?

Specifically what evidence do you have that Hillary is in any way, shape or form anti-war?

[IndianaJones]

37. Oh, you're expecting civil discussion? Interesting discussion technique. nt.

[MadHound]

39. No, not necessarily civil, things are rarely civil in this forum

But I would like to get back to the original topic. You know, what evidence do you have for Hillary being anti-war? You can make it as civil or un-civil as rules around here allow.

[IndianaJones]

42. All that matters: anti-war Democrats are supporting her over all other candidates.

I know it hurts. I know Clinton haters are gonna whine about it. It is the reality. Face it.

[MadHound]

No,no,no,no,no, no copping out now friend

You specifically stated, in your subject line upthread, that Hillary was anti-war. I'm looking for proof on this one, and frankly if you want to get more anti-war voters to vote for her, then they are going to want proof too. So no copping out on this one, prove it or lose it.

[IndianaJones]

46. Its not copping out...its called winning.

Losers always whine about doing their best.

[MadHound]

48. So since you're not going to present any evidence that Hillary is anti-war

Then I guess I'll just take that as a win.:shrug: OK, but I was really hoping that you had some evidence for this, but hey, when it's not there, it's not there right.

Peace:hi:

[IndianaJones]

53. If it makes you feel better while reading of the latest polls of her extending her lead.

I know thats gotta hurt.

[backscatter712]

25. No. That's not it.

It's because she triangulates (aka weathervanes her positions to kowtow to the greatest number of voters instead of going on principle,) her record shows she's not anti-war, she's sold out to corporate lobbyists, and she behaves like your typical DLC Republican Lite.

Gender has nothing to do with it.

[dionysus]

19. if that's your definition of hate

you have some really thin ass skin.

And yes, please pass whatever you're smoking over here if you really think she's anti-war.

[durrrty libby]

92. I have enjoyed your debate in this thread

:applause:

I do have one question. you said,"the real reason for their hate always comes out"

I think it is old fashioned sexism. What do you think it is?

[MadHound]

106. So step up yourself! Are you going to accuse me of being sexist?

Not knowing me, not knowing my background, not knowing a damn thing about my life history, are you going to accuse me of being sexist? Or will you simply tapdance around the accusation like IJ has, hinting by innuendo and asides?

[bvar22]

71. Its going to suck for every American who Works for a Living...

when Hillary is coronated.


You should get out more and study the issues. Then look at where Hillary really stands ON THE ISSUES. She has promised AIPAC/MIC that she will keep the War/Occupation going for many years.
Hillary is NO "Peace" candidate.



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Adelante]

78. I don't think even her supporters think of her

as a "Peace" candidate :shrug:

[redqueen]

95. Makes you wonder about anyone trying to portray her that way...

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[redqueen]

94. You're funny!

You are a very funny person!

[Adelante]

17. She's a clever wench

I have to hand it to her. The difference between the netroots and the real world has never been starker than here. She's managed to entirely neutralize Edwards on the war. I think Obama still has time to put up a fight on this issue, but there's not much Edwards can do.

Isn't this the Edwards rationale on the issue? Refocus the Iraq debate on the future rather than the IWR vote. He deserves to be president because he said he was sorry.

Instead, they are siding with the one top contender who voted to authorize the invasion and has refused to apologize for that -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

As the article says, she found the "sweet spot."

[Tellurian]

58. Imagine , having a clever wench as president?

I can! If the Rethugs try stealing the election from her; which you know they will. There will be Hell to Pay.

And I'll be standing right beside her fighting the jackals with every resource known to mankind. They're not getting away with it this time!

[Moochy]

65. Including propagandistic lies

"every resource known to mankind"

[Tellurian]

104. Come over here Smoochy...

so I can hit you with my shoe!

[backscatter712]

23. Too little, too late.

I'll be damned if I'm going to vote for the Triangulator.

Gimme a real progressive.

[IndianaJones]

26. like who? nt.

[backscatter712]

29. Kucinich!

Oh, and Edwards isn't bad either.

[IndianaJones]

30. what is triangulation? nt.

[Romulox]

34. "radical centrism"--i.e. pandering to whomever has the $$$ to spend...nt

[IndianaJones]

38. is there a source for that definition? nt.

[Romulox]

43. google is your friend...nt

[IndianaJones]

47. google...that old reliable refuge. How about the dictionary? nt.

[Romulox]

52. Are your little fingers broken? nt

[IndianaJones]

55. I looked in the dictionary....it didn't contain your made up definition...

or the one you pulled from some website that supports your Clinton hate. Of course...its only the dictionary. You have google...and maybe wikipedia too.

[Romulox]

56. This is tedious...I can see your TRUE intention is simply to defend triangulation

And I'm not accepting homework assignments from you.

:hi:

[IndianaJones]

60. I may be able to defend it if it didn't consist of some abstract made up definition.

Wasn't there another word you could find to express your hatred of her?

[YOY]

67. It's not abstract. It is her strategy as it was Bill's and many other DLC candidates

The DLC uses the Triangualtion strategy. Spare us the BS. Love it or hate it, it does exist and they do use it.

Unless your purpose is to argue for the sake of argueing. Do what the other poster said and google it. It's in Wikipedia if you'd like.

[IndianaJones]

83. Websites that make google or wikipedia don't trump a dictionary.

Making up a new definition of a word doesn't make it so.

[YOY]

84. Actually you need to use an encyclopedia for this one. Any newer edition will do.

and the mathematical (as in scientific/engineering) use of the word is in my dictionary. Triangulation has been used in social sciences before as well.

Stop arguing. You're wrong on this one. It is not a made up word nor is Wikipedia's or any other viable source's (be that online or offline) definition not viable. Although Romulox's definition is a bit biased and not accurate.

The Clintons and Kerry do not deny the use of triangulation strategies. They used it in their campaigns in the past as well as in the present. It is not "pro-Hillary" or "anti-Hillary" to say so. It is fact. It is her strategy. Some claim it a flawed strategy. Ask anyone who worked on their campaigns in the past or in the present. Love it or hate it. IT IS REAL.

[IndianaJones]

85. I've seen triangulation defined in political terms. It does not nearly match...

the posters definition. Sorry..no dice there either.

[YOY]

86. I'm not debating their definition, just the existance of the term itself

And it is relevant to the situation. Perhaps next time you should correct their definition instead of arguing that no such word exists?

[IndianaJones]

87. The term itself, in political terms, exists. It does not exist in the manner..

defined up thread. That is my issue, and I stated it as such.

[Romulox]

31. Hillary seems to thrive on an uninformed electorate

Obviously HRC has no credibility as an "anti-war candidate" with anyone that follows the news.

[SaveElmer]

41. Actually she seems to thrive on an electorate not sucked in by

Bogus "progressive" talking points that have little relationship to reality...seems the voters have a better sense of her actual positions and skills than most in the liberal blogosphere do...

Quite heartening actually!

[Romulox]

45. Thank god those "progressives" are being shut out of the party!

More room for K street types and their filthy, filthy money!

After all, lobbyists are people too! :puke:

[SaveElmer]

54. They are shutting themselves out...

Acting like Republican attack dogs...

[Romulox]

59. The candidate that supports war and outsourcing is acting like a Democrat

And those that oppose her are acting like Republicans?

And down is up, water is dry, etc.


:rofl:

[SaveElmer]

70. Exhibit A...thank you!

[Moochy]

66. great use of the airquoted "progressive"!

I see wyldwolf savelmer and the rest of the muppet show has trained us well! :)

I'll add to your statement on lobbyists, and state that Corporations are people too!

[zulchzulu]

49. So someone who was for the war is "anti-war"...

:rofl:

Good one! OMG! That is just a hoot!

[William769]

61. Is all of the United States becoming DLC?

Or is that meme just falling apart?

[William769]

62. Heres a great pic to go with your post wyldwolf.

[Totally Committed]

63. Whoever is styling her these days is doing a very good job.

I have to admit for someone who is roughly my age, she looks very good lately.

TC

[William769]

64. Actually I am a little bit jealous.

I had to have all my hair cut off this week. :(

[durrrty libby]

74. I was about to comment on what an interesting thread this was

when you said."had to have all my hair cut off this week"
Are you ok? :hug: Please pm me

[Adelante]

68. She looks way, way better the more she ages

I used to look ten times better than she did, I thought, but not now! She's aging very much better than I am.

[durrrty libby]

75. She has some kind of mojo going on, because she looks fabulous

Menopause must be her fountain of youth

[Carolina]

91. It's not menopause

it's MONEY

[ronnykmarshall]

73. Look at all those un hip people.

:scared:

[Tom Joad]

79. I can tell she's lying in that pic.

her lips appear to be moving.
(old joke, but it applies)

[William769]

96. Yes it's old and I am not talking about the joke.

:eyes:

[oasis]

76. "...bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely

and therefore, war, less likely"---HRC.

[Tom Joad]

80. She knew that to be false...

she had to. No one could be that stupid as to trust Bushboy... could they?

[redqueen]

97. Nope.

Not someone with as much experience / knowledge as those in Congress.

[Tom Joad]

77. If you love this war, You will love Hillary.

[Moochy]

88. Get Ready For

The New War! from 44!

[lojasmo]

82. Evidently, anti-war democrats are f-ing stupid.

Yup. One of the enablers of bush's cluster is now appealing to anti war democrats.

Stupidest. People. Ever.

[redqueen]

98. Who knows why this article refers to them as anti-war...

the "gut feeling" lady sure as FUCK isn't anti-war... she's anti-learning though, that much you can tell.

[eridani]

90. Clinton is not in favor of leaving Iraq

Spinning it that way is bullshit. She wants a "residual force". That is not antiwar.

[redqueen]

93. Good GOD will people fucking STOP with the "gut feelings"?

:puke:

[William769]

99. Only if your side will. NT

[redqueen]

100. MY side?

:wtf: are you on?

Do you know who bases most of his dumbass ideas on his 'gut feelings'?

[William769]

101. Well if you must know, life.

And yes I was referring to your side. Not very hard to discern what I meant by that.

[redqueen]

102. Uh huh... avoid the question... it's BUSH.

And that's all I have to say to the likes of you... thanks very much.

[William769]

103. The likes of me?

HA HA HA!

[Tellurian]

105. HA HA X 2

Last week I was called "you little weenie" by a rabid DU'er.

I couldn't respond until I windexed their spittle off my screen.

SOME PEOPLE! :crazy: