For those who have said we cannot elect Clinton/Obama/Biden

[Debi]

Because we can't afford to lose Democrats in the Senate. Do you realize that each of their respective Governors are also Democrats? What's the chance of them appointing a Republican Senator in their stead? (Only Dodd's seat would be in danger).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. I Think Some Folks Mean They Will Cause Down Ballot Candidates To Lose...

I need to answer your nice private message ... I will when I can formulate an intelligent response worthy of yours...

[Debi]

2. Thank you

on another thread it was discussed how we cannot afford making a Democratic Senator the President (in my :tinfoilhat: reasoning the argument probably came from a Kucinich/Edwards/Richarson supporter). I took me until last night to figure it out. Clinton - Obama - Biden could easily be elected President with any of those three as VP w/out losing a Senate seat.

As for down ballot races? I would hope the people showing up to vote for President/VP would vote Democrat all the way down to dog catcher! (Do people actually vote for dog catcher anymore???)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Some Folks Here Suggest That Hillary Clinton Will Cause The Down Ballot Candidates To Lose Because

She's "So Polarizing."

That's an interesting argument ... I don't know if I buy it or not... Like others, I am skeptical about her as our standard bearer but that skepticism is balanced by the respect I have for her as a campaigner... She is a very adroit and disciplined campaigner and won't beat herself...

I really like Obama but I don't think his candidacy would be without problems... I think his election would be a redemptive moment for our nation... I also like Biden, Richardson, and Dodd... I don't actively dislike any of our candidates...

I will probably vote for Obama in the primaries and end up voting for Hillary in the general election...

[Debi]

4. I'm in the undecided boat as well

I would be disappointed in my fellow Democrats who would lose us the Presidency (and put other seats in danger) just because they didn't like the nominee (choosing to stay home rather than voting).

Here in Iowa our wonderful Senator Tom Harkin is up for re-election. His contests have traditionally been close ones(although at this point in the race his opposition is light). We also just elected two Democrats to Congress (Bruce Braley and David Loebsack) in seats that were previously held by republicans.

Any Democrat in Iowa who chose to not vote b/c the Democratic nominee was not of their choosing would be foolish. Our state is split pretty much 1/3 1/3 1/3 with regard to D - r - No Party, we'll need every voter we can get!

I don't know who I'll be caucusing for, but I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I Think Some People Fear That Nominating Hillary Will Bring GOOPERS Out Of The Woodwork To Vote

Against Her And They Will Then Vote For Other Republicans down ballot...

The Republicans will do their best to dirty up any of our candidates, witness the stories about Obama going to a madrassa (not true) and the emphasis on his middle name, Hussein, and the attacks on John Edwards' four hundred dollar haircuts and sprawling mansion, while he claims he's a champion for the poor...

I just know the political environment favors Democrats and we need to find a new country if we can't win the 08 election... Winning is important... Sometimes I think the fate of the republic and the world depends on it...That's why choosing a candidate who can win in Novembers is so important...

[Debi]

10. But nominating a polarizing republican will do the same with bringing Dems and No Party voters out

Fred Thompson/Guiliani/McCain/Romney - any of them will energize the opposition.

I'm not trying to be argumentative - I'm really not - I just see it on both sides.

2006 our two-term governor decided not to seek re-election and run for President (short-lived). We had an open race (and an ugly primary). Our current Secretary of State (D) ended up running against EIGHT TERM member of Congress (r). People figured the race would bring voters of both parties out of the woodwork. Instead the Democrat (now Governor Chet Culver) defeated Jim Nussle (now heartless budget guru) by over 100,000 votes AND for the most party Dems won up and down the ticket (re-electing Leonard Boswell - electing Braley and Loebsack. Also having a Dem majority in both segments of the statehouse and a Dem majority in our local board of supervisors).

The Dem primary was ugly, as I said before, and many who supported both of Culver's opponents (many of the retiring Governor's staff and companions) said they would stay home rather than vote. But it didn't happen.

I don't think it will happen (here) in 2008.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. You're Not Argumentative

I don't have a "dog" in this fight" (nominating process) other than wanting to see Obama win but I'm not heavily invested in any of our candidates... But winning the White House is of paramount importance... It's vital to the health of the republic...

[ginchinchili]

6. The Case For Biden

I've been watching this primary process carefully trying hard to be open-minded about all the candidates. First off, it has to be a Democrat because we've had a Republican in the White House for 6 1/2 years, with 1 1/2 more to go, and the US cannot afford 4 more years of their detrimentally reckless policies. It will be hard enough to patch up the damage that Bush and the Neocons have done as it is. I've liked Senator Biden for a long time now, but for reasons that aren't clear to me, I looked past him and focused on a few of the others. I like all of the Democrats running this time, but I feel certain that neither Senator Clinton nor Senator Obama can win.

Senator Obama made a gross strategic mistake by running in this election; he should have waited another 4-8 years, gaining some much needed experience. That misjudgment, along with a few campaign missteps, makes me worry that he would make similar mistakes as president, but more importantly, he can't win in this election. The Republicans will repeat a mantra that will include an endless refrain highlighting Obama's lack of experience and 9/11. Inexperience, terrorism, and future 9/11s. It's a hurtle he can't overcome during this election cycle because he really doesn't have the experience.

Senator Clinton, the current front runner, is unelectable. I actually think she'd make a good president, but she's too vulnerable. She'd come close, but she'd lose. She will not win enough independents and moderate Republicans to win the White House. Hillary has been effectively vilified to the point where it energizes the Right like abortion and gay marriage issues. The Republicans use these issues to great success: why hand them another successful weapon. There are just too many people who are uncomfortable with her. The Republicans would have a field day with her image. When they got through with her those of us who like her will even be wondering if voting for her might be a mistake.

This brings me to Senator Biden. I started considering his candidacy and wondering just what kind of president he would make. This I believe to be true: Joe Biden is the last person Karl Rove wants to see win the Democratic nomination because Rove knows that, in addition to receiving overwhelming Democratic support, Biden would win independents and a good number of disillusioned Republicans. This is what is necessary for the Democrats to win in 2008. In addition, Biden is smart enough and experienced enough to actually do a good job as president. I don't have much faith in the Democrats ability to choose a winner, but if they want to really win this election, Senator Biden is the horse who has the best chance of coming in 1st. All voters who want to see a Democrat win the presidency in 2008 should seriously consider supporting Joe Biden, but they'd better do it quick.

[Debi]

7. You should re-post this as it's own thread. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Biden Seems Like The Safe Candidate But His Campaign Seems Stalled

Of course this can change but it needs to change soon...

[Debi]

12. It's weird that - as benign as his campaign seems - he is attacked so viciously

here on DU. You don't see those attacks on Dodd/Kucinich/Richardson. Why - if his campaign is going nowhere - do folks bludgeon him so?

Anyway - the poster put so much time into their post I just thought it deserved more attention than what it's gonna get on my thread. You and me seem to have our own private post-a-thon here. :hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Why Is Biden Disliked Here?

Probably because he's perceived as a centrist but I'll let his detractors speak for themselves...

Also, he's probably disliked for his IWR vote...

I can't work myself into a lather "hating on" Democrats... I am content "hating on" most Republicans...

[Debi]

14. Look at the Labor vote.

He's got a current 93% AFL-CIO rating and yet not a single union has endorsed him. (I'll give the other candidates credit - they all have scores relative to his). http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/S8_UXHsOtha6SBEk-CxZH2-

I'd argue with IWR b/c Clinton and Edwards (and Dodd) voted that way as well.

As for him being a centrist - here are the 2006 scores regarding liberal voting patterns - Biden scores a 77 where Clinton is at 70. (Obama is at 86 with Dodd at 84)http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm

I just don't get it.

[ginchinchili]

15. It will take a centrist to win this election, except in Hillary's case

The problem with Hillary is that, although she is a centrist, she is perceived as extremely liberal. If she gets the nomination, the Republicans will finally have something to be inspired about.

[Debi]

16. As I said above I don't think that's going to change no matter who our nominee is

The scorched-earthers will work to take out whoever our candidate is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Have No Problems With A Biden Candidacy But You Are "Misunderestimating" Hillary....

Her flaws, real or perceived are out there already...Any attacks on her by the GOPU will be dismissed as "old news"... She is the most adroit and disciplined candidate in the race...She also is the toughest, by far... They called Margaret Thatcher "The Iron Lady"... When it comes to being tough Hillary Clinton makes Margaret Thatcher look like a piker...

She is also pounding her Republican rivals in head to head polls...

As of now, I think she's a winner...