I don't think Wes Clark would have endorsed Clinton so early in the game unless...

[hisownpetard]

he knew for certain that she was going to choose him as her running mate.

What do you think, DUers? Is it a fait accompli that they'll be on the ticket together?

[wildhorses]

1. please.gawd. NO!!!

although i must admit. it would be a brilliant move on her part. i give her credit for being a great politician. hell, she has been campaigning all her life. she ought to be an expert by now.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Wrong

[hisownpetard]

21. So, what is your take on this? n/t

[cobalt1999]

3. Or he's positioning himself as interested in the VP slot.

[hisownpetard]

22. Well, yeah - Obviously, he must believe for sure that Hillary's going to win and,

by declaring his support for her at this early date, is pretty much insuring the fact
that he will get a prominent position in the administration.

He would be an asset to any new administration, I believe.

[CTyankee]

25. I was thinking the same thing about Biden, but his interest is in SecState.

He would be just fine there. A very well respected man.

[Debi]

4. I would rather see him as Sec. of Defense

But I think he chose the candidate he felt had the beliefs and values closest to his own.

[Greyhound]

6. If true, that is very disappointing.

I believed that Gen. Clark was honorable to a fault.

[Debi]

8. As do I - what makes that disappointing? n/t

[Greyhound]

15. Because HRC has proven herself to be anyhting but, time and again. n/t

[Menemsha]

99. Clark is honorable to a fault- nothing has changed

[tammywammy]

10. Too bad he can't be sec of defense

:shrug:

I think he'll make an excellent Sec of State in any administration.

[Debi]

12. Okay, I'll bite - why can't he be Sec. of Defense? n/t

[tammywammy]

13. You have to be out of the military for 10 years

before being eligible for Sec of Defense. Clark didn't retire until 2000.

[Debi]

16. Thanks! n/t

[hisownpetard]

24. Oof - didn't know that! But, now that I do, that reinforces my initial thought about HRC possibly

offering him the second place on the ticket.

[tammywammy]

33. Well, or even

Sec of State. I think he'd be an excellent candidate for that.

[hisownpetard]

38. Sec'y of State? IS THERE such a position? And, if so, who holds it now? ...

[tammywammy]

40. Are you serious?

[Cameron27]

42. Strangest question I've seen on DU

I'll echo your ---> Are you serious?

[tammywammy]

45. Sometimes it's hard to tell with sarcasm

I mean it wouldn't surprise me if someone really did ask if there was a such thing as sec of state. :shrug:

[hisownpetard]

43. No.

It's just that Condi hasn't been seen nor heard from in any meaningful way
in..,. well, in... well, almost forever. What the hell is she getting paid for, anyhow?

[Cameron27]

44. lol, you scared me for a minute.

[hisownpetard]

54. Sorry! Couldn't resist. n/t

[tammywammy]

48. Thanks for clairfying

Sarcasm is hard to tell sometimes. :)

I agree with you on Condi's lack of execution in the Sec of State dept.

[hisownpetard]

51. I honestly can't think of one constructive thing that she's done. What a sham/shame.

(Love your avatar, by the way).

[tammywammy]

53. Thanks!

[sallyseven]

55. She is buying her house in California with

a woman friend of hers.

[hisownpetard]

86. And...? n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

14. by law

the Secretary of Defense must be at least 10 years retired from the service. Clark still has a couple more years to go.

[Debi]

17. Thank you! n/t

[Major Hogwash]

19. Well, we can change that law. Bush said that everything has changed since 9/11.

I can see changing the law now a lot easier than I would have just a decade ago.
After all, Bush hasn't done anything to uphold the law, he just does whatever he wants to do, so I think the Democrats could say that "since we are at war, a war that Bush started, we need to have a man with the credentials like Wes Clark in this position because you have fucked things up so bad these last 5 years."

[MonkeyFunk]

36. well I happen to think it's a good law

and don't want to see it changed. Civilian control of the military is a good thing.

There are plenty of other jobs Clark could excel at in any administration.

[tammywammy]

37. I agree 100%

I like the law the way it is.

Clark would be a good Sec of State.

[hisownpetard]

23. I think he'd make an awesome Secy. of Defense, too - he's not at all blood-thirsty. nt

[Clark2008]

80. He can't be Secretary of Defense.

I think I'm going to put this explanation on a hot key for the next few days.

Federal statute requires that the Secretary of Defense be retired from active-duty military for 10 years, at least. By the 2008/2009 presidential change, Clark, who retired in 2000, will have only been out of the military for 8 to 9 years, making him ineligible unless Congress overrides the statute, which probably won't happen.

Whew... I think I'll just keep this on a notepad for easy access.

[Debi]

93. Thank you for explaining this to me three hours after the other DUers have done so

I'm pretty certain I won't forget it now.

[Clark2008]

123. Thank you for the snark.

I read down the list and don't see the other responses until after I post.

[PatSeg]

96. He would, but

He hasn't been a civilian long enough to be Secretary of Defense.

[Debi]

114. Okay, knock it off!!

;)

[rinsd]

122. He would be an amazing Sec of Def

Can you imagine the morale boost amongst the services after years of Bush admin destruction?

On edit: Nevermind, I see he is not eligible.

[2rth2pwr]

5. No, Clark sees the writing on the wall and is

looking for a cabinet level position.

[spotbird]

9. You win

The VP pick will add some thing geographically, like Ohio. An Arkansan won't do much to help her ticket.

[Clark2008]

81. Except it would help her win Arkansas.

She'd be quite embarrassed if she didn't and she can't without him on the ticket.

Think about it.

[spotbird]

119. She'll carry Arkansas

even if Huckabee is the Republican nominee. Arkansas is solidly blue now, it's also only symbolic, Ohio is a much bigger deal.

[sampsonblk]

7. There are plenty of other possibilities

For one, the earlier the endorsement, the greater the weight (with some exceptions).

On edit: My impression was that the Clinton's were the ones who suggested for Clark to run in 2004. He had no campaign experience and he just plain wasn't going to win. I thought he was the best man for the job, but not the best candidate.

So now he comes back with some real experience. And there's Hillary about to need a running mate. You may be onto something.

[Ninja Jordan]

11. I doubt it has much to do with that.

Clark will be part of a prospective Clinton cabinet, though, no doubt about it.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Yes, promises in the dark. nt

[Ethelk2044]

20. She will not win so we do not have to worry about that.

[CTyankee]

26. Oh, I think she will. Choosing Clark for VP would be a good move on her part.

She is running one helluva smart campaign and, more importantly, is beating the repub lineup in one on one polls. If Clark runs with her, she will get some white male support that she so far hasn't gotten.

[jcrew2001]

27. Its not that early. Clark wants to campaign around in the Fall

maybe raise some cash for himself and give speeches. He doesn't want the endorsement question coming up later. Its too late for him to run as a candidate himself, so he it was either time for him to endorse, or go home.

[Cameron27]

28. Spoke to him, did you?

Read the teas leaves this morning too?

[jcrew2001]

29. He'll go on talk shows, hang out in NH and do some photo

ops for Hillary.

He'll do some campaigning for the 2007 fall elections. He'll make some money on speeches. Its win-win for Clark this Fall.

And, he'll position himself for a cabinet post.

[Cameron27]

31. Maybe he'll hire you to write his itinerary

you have such amazing insight, he wouldn't even have to dictate.

[jcrew2001]

34. Sure, I'll have him on MTP on Sunday

then he'll go to NH and campaign for Hillary next week. Lots of Vets up there.

[PatSeg]

97. He is employed by MSNBC

He might have a contract, so he could be limited as to his campaign activities.

[Disturbed]

30. DUers better get used to the fact that Hillary will be the Nominee.

I don't quite understand why so many are against her. After all, how different are her political stands than Bill's? Bill still seems to be popular among most DUers & he will most likely be Chief of Staff. If Wes Clark would be VP, I don't see why there would still be heavy opposition towards Hillary. I would love to read a reply to this.

[jcrew2001]

35. Bill doesn't have the organization required for Chief of Staff

he'll probably be UN ambassador or secretary of state - foreign policy stuff.

[tammywammy]

49. Bill can't be anywhere in the cabinet

He could be an ambassador, but not Chief of Staff, Sec of State, AG, etc.

[tammywammy]

41. Bill can't be Chief of Staff

Due to the anti-nepotism law. Just like Hillary couldn't be his.

[hisownpetard]

60. Was this law passed after JFK appointed RFK as Attorney Genl? n/t

[tammywammy]

64. The Anti-Nepotism law of 1967 n/t

[hisownpetard]

66. Thanks, Tammy. I've often wondered about that but didn't know. n/t

[tammywammy]

67. Hey, it's just one of those facts I've picked up along the way

:)

I saw it posted a few times here on DU a loooong time ago, and made a good mental note of it. The Clinton's looked into having Hillary as a Chief of Staff after Bill was elected and they found out she couldn't.

It was retaliation for JFK appointing RFK AG.

[BootinUp]

108. I would be interested to read analysis that supports that conclusion.

Nepotism is going to be hard to prove if the person is highly qualified for the position don't you think?

[hisownpetard]

117. Not if they're related. n/t

[BootinUp]

118. Of course it doesn't matter much

even if you are right, Bill will have plenty of access to her without any new titles.

[hisownpetard]

47. "...Maybe raise some cash for himself..." ? He can't "raise" cash for himself if he's no longer

a candidate. And how do you know he wants to "campaign around" in the fall?

[jcrew2001]

94. He's trying to stay relevent

I can't wait for Wes Clark's e-mail asking for us to donate to Hillary!!!!

Hopefully I'll get the e-mail tonight!!! And I'll donate all my money to her right away!

[calteacherguy]

32. I believe it is more likely than not that the Democratic ticket will be Clinton/Clark.

And I think it would be unbeatable. Clark would complement Clinton perfectly in his ability to bring national security to the forefront and help defend her from right-wing lies and propaganda. As Bill said in 2003, they are the two "rising stars of the Democratic Party."

The truth of that statement is going to become quite clear going forward.

Clark is a man who wants to continue doing all he can to help Democrats WIN. I believe he has calculated that Clinton will be the nominee, and being on the ticket would give him the best platform to help Democrats win.

He'd be the perfect running mate, and I would hope as VP he would be given a real working role diplomatically, although that is not traditional for VPs. I also think he would make a great SOS. However, the first priority is to win, so I expect it will be a Clinton/Clark ticket.

Clark in 2016? The guy is in great shape. It's not out of the question, and I have to say I am energized by Clark taking a large role in the next administraiton whatever the future may hold.

He'll have a bigger voice, and that's all for the good, imo.

[hisownpetard]

87. I agree. Maybe he declared for her this early to sort of float a trial balloon, see

how people react to this news and the possibility of a joint ticket?

[jcrew2001]

95. however, which states can Clark help win

since he has never won an election anywhere.

[Milo_Bloom]

39. He definately sold out for something...

VP, Cabinet, not sure which, but there was a sell out here.

[Catchawave]

46. Agree...what a sh*tty thing to do to his supporters.....

:cry:

[calteacherguy]

52. As a long time Clark supporter, I'm absolutely delighted!

Now, we can focus on victory!

[Catchawave]

56. Not in my party :( n/t

[calteacherguy]

59. Well, then good luck with your own party!

Sorry to see ya go!

:hi:

[Milo_Bloom]

70. Guess you will find a different candidate than Clark's, right?

B/c Hilary is not winning the general election.

[calteacherguy]

50. Clark has been working fervently to get Democrats elected.

He was instrumental in helping more Dems get elected in 06. He's doing what he believes will best help to ensure Democratic victory in 08'. He will be an even stronger voice in our Party moving forward. With Clark on our side, there is the possiblity of a Democratic sweep, not just marginal victory.

You've already had one thread locked today, so I'd watch your tongue.

[hisownpetard]

63. Hmm - which thread was that? n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

74. None, he is in a snit because people aren't falling in line. (NT)

[Milo_Bloom]

71. Endorsing Hilary doesn't ensure a victory... it ensures a loss.

Since tons of dems won't vote for her and will actually work against her in the general election.

[hisownpetard]

89. Given the state of the union and the country under Bush, do you honestly think

there are Democrats who are so anti-Hillary that, if she were the chosen Democratic candidate,
they would rather not vote than vote for her?

[paulk]

101. there are a few...

and most of them post on DU!

[sallyseven]

57. Maybe he doesn't think he sold out.

Your the one who thinks he has. Maybe your wrong.

[calteacherguy]

61. There is no "maybe" about it.

Clark's motive always has been getting Democrats elected, and doing the best he can to help ensure that Democrats do get elected.

He's made a political calculation, and decided this is what he can do now to best help Democrats WIN. I applaud him for that.

[Milo_Bloom]

72. No question it is a sell out.

Anyone can see it... This is for personal gain and personal gain alone.

[calteacherguy]

75. Whatever. You have obviously made up your closed mind.

No use have a discussion, then. See ya.

[Milo_Bloom]

76. The actions say it all.

It doesn't take much in the way of reasoning and analysis to figure it out.

Clark sold out.

He has hurt the democratic parties actions by throwing his endorsement to someone who won't even retain a large part of her own party.

[hisownpetard]

62. If he agrees with Hillary's policies, why is a 'sell out' implied? n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

73. Because they aren't on the same page...

And haven't been for many years.

For him to suddenly abandon much of what he fought for, to endorse a DINO wreaks of a sellout.

[calteacherguy]

77. What he's fought for is to get Democrats elected.

And that's what he's fighting for now. You are exagerrating their differences greatly. They are both fine Democrats, and have far more in common than they may have differences.

[Milo_Bloom]

79. Like I said, he chose POLITICS over PRINCIPLES.

Just because someone has a D next to their name doesn't mean they deserve to be fought for... unless that is you are a sellout with no actual principles who can't see beyond the letter next to someone's name. Remember how all those loyal democrats leaped to the defense of Joe Lieberman? I guess they were just loyal dems, eh?

I would much rather have Lincon Chafee with an R next to his name than have a senate FILLED with Hilary clones.

[JNelson6563]

58. It's an interesting situation.

I've seen a lot of Clarkies supporting Obama. I suspect this is about to change.

Additionally I see a great deal of criticism directed toward Edawrds for having voted for the IWR. Now that their guy has signed onto the Hillary "I'll take Bush at his word" Clinton campaign, what will happen to that old stand-by?

It'll make a good show no matter what.

Julie

[hisownpetard]

65. Yes, a lot of people were excited about an Obama/Clark possibility. Now they'll

have to decide whether to stay with Obama sans Clark, or whether to go
with Hillary and Clark serving in some aspect.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I suspect that, since Obama's
name was first in that no-longer-possible scenario, the majority of those voters
may stay with Obama.

[tammywammy]

68. Just because Clark endorsed Hillary

doesn't mean she's an automatic to get the nod.

Plus, if Obama does get the nod he could still ask Clark to be VP, nothing would preclude that.

[hisownpetard]

83. No, it's not a 'given' that Hillary gets the nomination, not by a long shot. I think

Obama is doing very well and Edwards still has a lot of support, too.

A LOT can happen between now and then. Anyone who thinks that one candidate has a lock
on the nomination at this time is wearing rose-colored glasses, I think.

[tammywammy]

84. No I don't think it's a lock for anyone either

A lot can happen between now and Primary season.

[Menemsha]

98. To help change your mind -

Check out the Washington Post piece today:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402254.html

Washington Post: War Critics Question Obama's Fervor
Some Say Actions Don't Match Talk

Would like to know what you think now? Clark is smart and honorable- I worked for him in NH 2004 primary- Amazing man- loves his country-wouldn't do anything to hurt it.

[hisownpetard]

103. I think Clark is honorable, dedicated - all those good things. I also love Obama.

But, given the choice as it stands today, I'd have to vote for Obama and whoever he chooses for VP.
Of course, things are not static and can change between here and the day we pull the lever.

P.S. Menemsha! Used to watch the sunsets from there (sigh)...

[Tom Rinaldo]

121. If you spend any time at Clark Community Network

You will see that Hillary's vote for the IWR and her subsequent stance on Iraq is the single strongest hurdle a lot of Clark supporters have in considering supporting Hillary now. That by no means is the only problem some core Clark supporters have with her, but it is the closest thing to a complete deal buster for many. Having said that, the only thing that can be said to truly unite essentially all Clark supporters is a deep respect for Wes Clark's character, his leadership abilities, his ability to analyze complex situations and provide sound counsel regarding them, and his experience dealing with issues related to international affairs and national security. Many of us see many other positives in Wes Clark, but that more or less describes the core commonality among virtually all of Clark's supporters.

Not all Clark supporters see a vote for the IWR as a deal buster for supporting a candidate in the nomination phase, though some obviously do. That obviously is not an issue in regards to Obama, but other key elements of the package are, particularly in the area of experience dealing with issues related to international affairs and national security. For many Clark supporters John Edwards comes up weak in their estimation on the latter count also, which amplifies their discomfort with the judgment and leadership he showed at the time of the IWR vote. My guess however is that more Clark supporters are comfortable with the domestic agenda backed by John Edwards than that backed by Hillary Clinton.

However we have long keyed in on Wes Clark's long expressed concern that the war inside of Iraq may soon expand well beyond Iraq's borders if more isn't done to prevent that from happening, particularly in regards to Iran. Speaking for myself but I suspect for many other Clark supporters also, the sum total of the wisdom contained in the remarks made by Clinton, Edwards, and Obama combined regarding Iran to date leave us seriously underwhelmed.

Where Hillary Clinton may have an edge in that regard is her hands on experience during her husband's two terms in office. Few would say Hillary Clinton played a role like Laura Bush's in the White House, she was clearly a full part of the inner policy team there. And the Clinton White House almost negotiated peace between Israel and Palestine, and it sent the U.S. Secretary of State to North Korea's capital to negotiate face to face with Kim when military conflict seemed possible with that nation. Clinton's team brokered the Dayton Peace Accords, and had the good sense to commit the resources needed to ensure stability inside Bosnia and Kosovo after the shooting stopped in those nations. The Clinton White House was much more nuanced in it's stance toward Iran toward the end of Clinton's presidency; it was not party to the "Axis of Evil" characterizations of Iran that followed.

It is that legacy of Bill Clinton's presidency that Hillary Clinton has the capacity to lay some claim to now if she has enough wisdom to do so, and that, plus Wes Clark's personal endorsement of course, could help pave the way for her to receive some additional support now from some of Wes Clark's supporters.

[Honeycombe8]

69. You couldn't be more wrong. He LOST in '04. No one is going to touch ...

a former loser during this round.

Only former losers can pick themselves up and run again. But no one else hoping to win will pick them up and take them.

At best he's hoping for a cabinet appointment. Or maybe he really thinks she'd be the best Prez. How's that for "reading his mind"?

[Sparkly]

105. Uh, Kerry picked Edwards.

Clinton picked Gore.

It happens all the time!

[Honeycombe8]

109. They didn't lose a prior election. It was all the same election. See the difference?

I think that's a big difference. I guess you don't.

She will not pick Clark because although he's a great person with great ideas, he is an inexperienced campaigner and politician, and a terrible debater. He would not be able to help her campaign in those ways.

He would be helpful because he is military and a white male. I don't know if that's enough, though.

I suspect he's in for a cabinet appointment.

[Sparkly]

112. Wrong -- Gore ran in 1988.

Further, I do not believe Clark is "a terrible debater," but even if he were, Kerry wiped the floor with Chimpy in all those debates and it didn't seem to swing the poll numbers.

[Honeycombe8]

125. Well, we'll see. Hey, I'd vote for him. But I doubt he's in for a VP slot...

but I could be wrong, right?

As for his debating skills....he was very bad. Even his wife in a speech she gave made a reference like, "Okay, he's not a debater...he's not a politician...but he's...." etc., etc. It was very obvious that he wasn't ready for the big league as a politician. He'd been on the debate team at West Point, I think...but that didn't translate to the national stage.

This is the big league. I doubt anyone would give someone the VP slot if they're not a politician. But a cabinet position, most definitely.

[high density]

78. I hope not

People don't vote for vice presidents.

[alfredo]

82. If not VEEP, Sec of Defense or Sec of State.

He is well respected world wide.

[hisownpetard]

85. He can't be Sec'y. of Defense, by law (see further up on this thread). n/t

[alfredo]

88. OK, I thought it was less time than that. I don't doubt he would be

part of her cabinet if he wants it.

[hisownpetard]

90. I agree with you on that. n/t

[alfredo]

91. If he is put on the ticket, his supporters will support him and

Hillary. Those unhappy now will see that Hillary is a lot better than anyone the GOPoops throws up against her.

[pa28]

92. Wes showed himself a tireless campaigner for Democrats in 2006.

Now it's apparent all that talent and energy will be directed to stumping for Hillary. I don't know if it's a sure thing but I do think their names will be connected very closely when (and if) the time comes to pick a running mate.

[moondust]

100. Likely.

He gets the #2 job. She gets a statesman and the commander of what was arguably the most successful large-scale military campaign in U.S. history to take on the Iraq problem and bring it to the least undesirable conclusion.

[wisteria]

102. No! n/t

[avrdream]

104. No.

But it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he was the VP candidate.

[cleveramerican]

106. Jumping on the bandwagon

I'd expect you'll see more and more of this.

[H2O Man]

107. Yes.

This has been known for some time.

[ejbr]

110. That would be an interesting ticket n/t

[Adelante]

111. I think it's too easy an assumption to make

Clinton has a stable full of people she might call on as a running mate. I think it's more likely she would consider Clark for a cabinet post, but again he would be one of many to choose from. As for his choice of candidate, he's not about to be paid off with a job. He's decided she's the best candidate and the best presidential choice for whatever reasons he has. I imagine he had already decided he would endorse Clinton if he wasn't able to run himself. The timing of the announcement, I believe, has to do with the attacks on Clinton having to do with the military and the MoveOn ad. There's no other explanation that makes sense to me for him endorsing this minute, but he has always said he would be endorsing and campaigning for a primary candidate if he wasn't one himself.

[BootinUp]

113. very sound logic. n/t

[Sparkly]

115. He is unique, though.

The military and MoveOn ad etc. may be key to the timing, as you say, but they also point to a bigger hurdle Clinton has to clear: the very idea of a supposedly "liberal," supposedly "military-hating" WOMAN as Commander in Chief "in a time of war," with "troops in harm's way," and all those other cliches.

I think the Clinton team, whatever else they are, are smart. She needs major brass beside her, and I can't think of a better running mate. Then again, I guess I'm biased.

I also agree though that The General made this decision because he believes in it, not because he wanted to position himself in any way. Otherwise, he'd have stayed out of endorsing during the primaries to leave his options more open among all the other candidates (which was frankly, for his own sake, what I'd hoped he'd do).

[Adelante]

116. I can't think of a better running mate, either

I'm not so sure she'd want to pick him, because she may need to carve out that CinC thing very clearly for herself and it could be too harsh a contrast for a female needing to do that.

[ripple]

120. Not necessarily, but I do think he's interested in VP

and decided to get behind the candidate he feels is most likely to win the nomination. Bums me out, because I was really hoping for an Obama/Clark ticket.

[CarolNYC]

124. hey ripple....

The Obama/Clark thing could conceivably still happen if Obama wins the nomination, no? Or do you think that Obama will rule him out now because of the Hillary endorsement?

I don't think he expects to be given the VP slot because of the endorsement but, unlike 2004, I think he'd accept it this time around....Not sure he would have if he was offered last time.