Just Came From The WesPac website, Wesley Clark's website

[ginchinchili]

I was reading the posts on Wes Clark's weblog and the vast majority of them were disappointed in Wesley Clark, respectful, but disappointed.

I'm a big supporter of Gen. Clark's and hated to see him endorse Hillary Clinton, but they're old friends so it's understandable. I just can't get on the Clinton bandwagon because there's about as much chance of her winning the general election as there is the different ethnic groups in Iraq coming together, forming a coalition government, and telling Iran to stay on their side of the fence.

The scary thing is that there are enough Democrats who like her to give her the nomination, but not enough supporters in the electorate to carry her into the White House. It's just not realistic to believe it can happen. And we can't afford to lose this one. I pray that we wise up.

I'll always admire Wesley Clark no matter what. If the Democrats decide to go with someone who can win--I personally think Joe Biden stands the best chance--then I hope Clark's endorsement of Hillary Clinton won't prevent him from being offered an appointment, like maybe Sec of State or Defense Sec, or even as a running mate. But the mood on his blog is quite somber. If anyone is thinking of going over there and leaving the good general a message, don't put anything negative about Hillary's chances as the subject. It won't get posted. Trust me.

[gateley]

1. From your keyboard to God's ear about Biden. I think regardless of WHO gets

into office, none of these people would shoot themselves in the foot by denying themselves the opportunity to benefit from Clark's experience and expertise. It's politics, after all, and they all know how the game is played.

[ginchinchili]

3. Well said. If they're smart enough to make it to the White House...

they should be smart enough to utilize the talents and charisma of one General Wesley Clark.

[TSIAS]

2. Never been a huge fan

I'm upset, but not suprised, that he endorsed HRC.

I'm getting more worried, as an Obama supporter, that Hillary is inevitable and she will lose to future President Giuliani.

[jillan]

4. I didn't realize that they were close.

I actually feel better about Hillary knowing that Wes in on her team.
I have alot of respect for Wes.

[ginchinchili]

7. As much as I like Sen. Obama....

his chances in this still right-leaning country are no better than Hillary's. I was hoping he'd wait until 2012 so that he couldn't be accused of not having enough experience. But in 2008, Karl Rove would take great pleasure in manipulating our slightly redneck country into rejecting this inexperienced black man, at a time when we're struggling to keep Iraq and nuclear weapons out of the hands of the Iranians who want to destroy us, in favor of the hero of 9/11, Rudy Giuliani. Sad, but true. And the truth is, he's not very experienced. Rest assured he will be by 2012.

[Colobo]

9. Obama has what it takes. Have faith.

[ginchinchili]

12. You have to have more than just faith

The Republican strategists love to hear such comments between Democrats. Don't worry about it. Just have faith. I heard plenty of that during the 2004 election. We can't afford a repeat of that.

But I respect your devotion. I like Obama a lot. I just think he made a strategic mistake by not waiting until he had more experience learning about how Washington works. If you want to change things, it takes more than good intentions. You have to understand the ins and outs of that which it is you want changed better than those who want it to remain the same, or you're doomed to fail.

[Colobo]

28. Obama is as ready as he needs to be. He still has the idealism others have lost.

[Colobo]

10. TSIAS, this is no time to worry. This is time to work hard.

We are still a couple of months away.

[jillan]

5. Interesting ----

thanks for doing the research!

That is true. IF Hillary is elected, she probably wouldn't chose Biden for someone in her cabinet.
Which is fine. He already said that he does not want to be her SoS.

If Biden doesn't win, I would have no problem with him staying right where he is.
After watching the Petraues hearing - he did a very impressive job as chairman.
Alot of info came out at that hearing.

[calteacherguy]

6. I was just at the website, and did not find that to be the case.

The vast majority are supportive of Clark. Some are disappointed in his choice (a few severely), but the vast majority are supportive.

[ginchinchili]

13. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that people were doggin Gen. Clark

I read about 15 - 20 posts starting with the most recent and the vast majority were not particularly happy with his endorsement. They didn't all come out and say he made a mistake, but few expressed excitement and gratitude for endorsing their candidate. Maybe it was just the section I was reading, but most I read didn't seem real thrilled.

[William769]

20. Only seems to be the people on DU that admire Clark are disappointed.

The holes in the original OP are apparent, so no need for me to elaborate on them.

[frazzled]

8. I am royally confused

It may seem to you that Clinton is not electable, but that is hardly a given. I will tell you, however, that Joe Biden wouldn't stand the proverbial Chinaman's chance (forgive the politcally incorrect locution) in a general election. Not only is he a loose cannon from a long ways back and has a senate record long enough to tear apart limb from limb (whether you are conservative or liberal), but all that plagiarism stuff from his last campaign would come back to bite so hard your head would be spinning. Joe Biden is completely unelectable. Just way too prone to bloviation.

Look, I was a huge Wesley Clark supporter in 03-04. I worked for several months straight on his campaign in New Hampshire: door to door, ear to phone, town hall by town hall. I was totally expecting his endorsement of Hillary. That said, I highly doubt I will be voting for her in the primaries. But I think she will get the nomination and I think she will be formidable against any of the Republican candidates. I just don't see this "unelectable" thing. But whatever. We all have our scenarios in our heads. Mine may be wrong, too. But don't assume yours is right. In the universe where Hillary Clinton would have to squeak by because of past history, Joe Biden would be lucky to lose by less than 10 points. Which is something I don't think we have to worry about anyway ... just saying that alternate universes do not necessarily exist.

[ginchinchili]

11. It's really quite simple. Hillary is anathema to most conservatives

and that includes a lot of moderate Republicans and Independents. These people's minds are made up about Hillary. I know several people like this. They may vote Democrat, but not if Hillary gets the nomination. It's the reason Giuliani is running an ad attacking her. He wants her to be the inevitable nominee. It's an old Karl Rove trick. They do it because they're confident about being able to beat her. You will have Rudy Giuliani, Mr. 9/11, arguing that with Iran on the verge of building a nuclear weapon, Hillary wants to pull out of Iraq allowing those same Iranians to become the de facto rulers of Iraq, and that Pakistan, which has a nuclear bomb, has just stripped power away from one of our chief partners in the war on terror, etc., etc.

Now you and I know that Giuliani has told a lot of lies about his participation on 9/11, and that everything else is manipulative bs, but what the GOP are going after is emotional, not intellectual. And it works! Look what they've managed to put in the White House for 2 terms. Now, we can discount all of this, but I sincerely believe that it will be to our peril.

As for Joe Biden, if we can lure the Republicans into thinking they can beat Joe Biden with his senate record and some questionable charge of plagiarism, then we can turn some of their own tactics on them. You're right, they would use these issues against Biden, but these can really only be dealt with on an intellectual level. They are counting on using the fear factor and with Biden it will be more difficult than with any other candidate. Right now, Americans care less about whether or not Biden supported Hillary's healthcare program or if he supported a ban on assault rifles. They are worried about Iraq, our national security, our economy, healthcare, and immigration. Biden can beat Giuliani on these issues. He'll be able to win the votes of independents and moderate simply because he comes across strong and confident, and has a wealth of experience in foreign policy. He also has a palatable plan for getting us out of Iraq. He has the gruff kind of personality that independents like. Hillary comes across strong and confident too, but she's Hillary Clinton and they hate her.

[countmyvote4real]

14. The problem is low info voters.

On one hand you get primary voters that recall a name with a time of prosperity. On the other hand, potential general election voters recall the sexual scandal associated with the Clinton name.

Low info voters don’t see things in terms that really affect them in a larger picture. The scarlet A or any number of issues manufactured by hate talk radio will be forever present. In no particular order of importance, it has been reduced to the three Gs: Gays. Guns. God.

That’s laughable to me considering various GOP leaders’ records on their public and private (wide) stances on issues that they champion. But while I have access to other media sources, there are millions of people that don’t and are not inclined to verify the pabulum of the MSM. They don’t know. They’re scared because their *resident and MSM told them to be that way.

On the dimmer-switch/brighter-side scale, I guess I have to applaud their efforts to vote in the first place. “Good job, but don’t eat the poo.” They won’t hear that metaphor with the associated facts unless they’re engaged by real people that they trust with the facts.

That brings it down to us to say something and educate potential voters. As far as my immediate family I already know that they are dead-enders. But I still push when I can. (We’re not a close family, so “can” means when we talk.)

I don’t know what’s left to do. My Democratic Senators are both egoists and one is running for POTUS. My Congressional representative doesn’t provide a verifiable email address to respond to with constituent concerns and yet she seems to have an adequate voting record that I would support.

[1932]

15. According to Clark in Waging Modern War, pp 26-27, they're not old friends.

He'd only met her two or three times before 1993, and they were acquaintances, not friends.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1586481398/ref=sib_dp_srch_pop/002-6569959-9862463?v=search-inside&keywords=Mrs.+Clinton&go.x=0&go.y=0&go=Go%21#

[Adelante]

17. acquaintances, not friends - correct

They've been friendly for several years since the mid-1990s, and since 2004, more so, as they are involved in various civic projects together and have close Arkansas friends in common, but it's a 25-year acquaintanceship, not a 25-year friendship. I've never known how friendly Hillary and Wes are or are not, but Wes and Bill do have a personal friendship for near a decade or so, it is fair to say.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Some very negative posts there, indeed

Hope he sees them...a lot of Democrats are dug in the ground against her. I'm one of them, for as long as the primary season is alive. I will have no problem voting for her if she's the nominee. But she won't be getting my time or money, which appears to be the case with a lot of Clark '04 supporters, of which I am one.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. I suspect Clark sees that very well.

I suspect also that it is one of the reasons why he chose to endorse her now. Clark is a thoroughly decent human being who was trained in the profession of warfare. There is no room for woulda coulda shoulda in a military campaign. Clark has been on the equivalent of such a campaign ever since he entered politics to oppose George W. Bush's disastrous plans for America.

I firmly believe that Wes Clark believes that it is almost inevitable now that Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic candidate for president in 2008. If he is correct, and my respect for Wes Clark's ability to analyze pending events has grown continually since I first was exposed to his thinking four years ago, then the future of our nation's well being in the first half of the 21st century will largely rest on Hillary Clinton's ability to defeat the Republican nominee for President in 2008.

I don't think Hillary Clinton needs our active support in order to win the Democratic nomination. I for one can not bring myself to give her such support, but that part doesn't matter. What matters is how fast so many of us who have deep resistance to the idea of supporting Hillary Clinton for President are able to work through our antipathy toward her to fight for her chances to win in November. We can all pretend that there is an intellectual switch each of us can throw that shifts us from opposing Hillary with a passion to fighting hard to help her defeat the Republican if she wins the nomination, but most people are not wired that way. There is an emotional psychological journey that must first be undertaken, and that journey can be slow and torturous.

It was that type of journey that took too long to take for far too many in 1968 that allowed Richard Nixon to hold onto a rapidly shrinking lead over a late charging Hubert Humphrey to win that presidential election and doom our nation to four more years of war in Viet Nam. It took a long time for anti war Democrats to become pragmatists in 1968 after the Chicago convention nominated LBJ's Vice President to run over Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern and the ghost of RFK. By the fall most of us were sobered enough by the prospect of Nixon getting elected that we could then seriously work for Humphrey, but we were a little too little, a little too late.

I don't think Wes Clark expects his endorsement of Hillary to turn many people who oppose her now into supporters of her now. But I think he realizes by endorsing Hillary Clinton now, who he (and I) fully expects will be the Democratic nominee, that he is helping hasten for many that emotional psychological journey that I mentioned above, so that come the day when she is nominated, more of us will be ready to stop sitting on our hands and start working hard to get Hillary Clinton elected.

[Totally Committed]

19. Most of those of us who supported Wes have a deep respect for him, as a person.

And, in our dealings with him, even when we disagreed with a certain position he took, that didn't change. We always respected his truthfulness and integrity.

Once, while in college, a professor in a wirting class told me that "disappointment" was a "lover's" word. So, when I tell you I'm mighty disappointed in him and this endorsement, I want you to know I still respect him. It won't get her my vote, and I probably won't call myself a "Clarkie" any longer, I'm just disappointed that this is one of those things he and I will never agree upon.

All my best to Wes and his family. That will never change.

TC

[William769]

21. The DLC gobbled him up.

[BootinUp]

23. stop. lol. n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

26. ROFLOL!!!!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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[William769]

22. I am also one of his supporters from 04.

To each his own.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. The Poster Always Cackles That Hillary Can't Win But She's Drubbing Freddy And Rudy In The Polls:

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm


He should worry about his own candidate... He's tied with Chris Dodd and Bill Richardson for sixth place:


http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08dem.htm

[emilyg]

27. HeeHee - go figure.

[Adelante]

29. If *only*, Wes is probably thinking - lol

"If anyone is thinking of going over there and leaving the good general a message, don't put anything negative about Hillary's chances as the subject. It won't get posted. Trust me."

Please. It's the nature of the Clark blog to argue everything and anything. Always has been. There are posters who are happy with the endorsement and posters who don't mind it and posters who are like no way in frigging hell or on this green earth! Clark has never exerted control on what is said or not said there, even though sometimes I've wished he would. It's not some well-oiled machine and disciplined corps, and if that's what the Clinton Campaign thinks they're getting, it will be a rude awakening.

Clark looks at it as a town hall where civics is rough and tumble, and so what? It's about democracy and ultimately that takes free speech and he doesn't curtail it. Like I said, he's probably thinking "If only they could STFU for five minutes." But block posts negative about Hillary's chances? This is a discussion being held all over the Internet. Clark (and I guess, Hillary) are entirely aware that the netroots has to come to grips with her candidacy, if that's possible, and it's not going to come about because Wes Clark says so or because Hillary Clinton wants it to be. It's going to come about because the people work the issues, just as Wes Clark urges they do.

What will happen is what's happened at times in the past when there is dismay over something Clark has determined is important enough yet doesn't quite fit with what his grassroots supporters want. He stands by his principles. We decide if we can live with it. If not, we go away, or we stay and work on other projects within the community, or we fall in line behind the General, either because we agree with what he wants or because we trust him.

[Adelante]

30. This is how he does it

I'm not going anywhere -and I'm going to need you with me every step of the way

Submitted by Wes Clark on September 16, 2007 - 3:45pm.

Hello everyone. I'm blogging from Clinton Campaign Headquarters in Arlington, VA.

I want to thank all of you for joining me today. As I'm sure you know, yesterday I endorsed Senator Hillary Clinton. I know many of you are disappointed I am not running – and I understand that. I know many of you aren't willing to throw your full support behind Hillary yet – and I understand that too. I know that each of you have to make your own decisions about who to support in the primary, though I hope many of you will join me in supporting Hillary by the time all is said and done.

Some of you have asked, "Could we have done more?" I want to assure you that I couldn't have asked for more from our tremendous Clark grassroots community. You've answered every challenge I've laid before you, and together, I know we will continue to confront the challenges that lie ahead.

One thing I want you to know for sure: This is not an ending – this is just another beginning, a new milestone in our work together. We have so much more to do to get our country back on track. I'm going to continue to speak out on the issues, to push our leaders to fight for the issues that matter to all of us, and to help elect more Democratic leaders up and down the ballot – in this election, and in many more elections to come. I invite you to stick with me, because I can't keep up this fight without you! We're in this together. It's how we started in 2003, when thousands of you drafted me into the race for President – and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Like I said yesterday, I'm not going anywhere – and I'm going to need you with me every step of the way.

I look forward to joining the discussion and answering some of your questions in the comments. Thanks so much for your friendship and your continued support.

Wes

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/12726#new