"More Tears Are Shed Over Answered Prayers Than Unanswered Ones"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

-St. Teresa Of Avila

The meme that Hillary can't win and the GOOPERS want to run against her is abject nonsense... The Clinton are 10- 1 in campaigns against GOOPERS... I like them odds...

[redqueen]

1. Clinton's supporters had better hope so.

If she gets it, and things don't go as planned, I can see things going VERY badly for the party afterwards.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. If The Democratic Nominee Loses The Planet Is Endangered

IMHO

[zulchzulu]

3. Abject nonsense indeed...

Here's some food for thought:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/08/12/democrats-worry-clinton-could-hurt-party/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20237246/
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003833211_webclinton12.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Subjective Nonsense....

The polls suggest otherwise:


http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

[zulchzulu]

6. Abject irrelevance

Citing a national poll a year and two months away from an election is indeed subjective if not reckless exuberance...

I'm assuming you think that Clinton's nomination would not have any negative coat tails for other Democrats who would have to fight a lot harder in races they had in the bag due to Republicans having one of the best reasons to get out and vote...

:rofl:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Self Identified Republicans Are At Their Lowest Level In A Generation

And who's your mythical candidate that is going to turn Utah, Wyomoing, Texas, Kansas, Alabama, Mississipi, blue?









:rofl:

[zulchzulu]

8. The states you cite...

Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Kansas, Alabama, Mississippi... why would what I cited have anything to do with them turning blue? Do you think that Clinton could turn them blue?

:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. No- I Expect A Repeat Of 00 And 04 With A Subtle Twist Regardless Of Our Candidate

I expect the electorate to be as polarized as it has been in the last two presidential elections... I guess you could make the case that the electorate has been polarized in the last four presidential elections but that's not necessary for the case I need to make here... I think any of our leading candidates can hold the states we carried in 00 and 04 and turn either FL, CO, AZ, VA, NM , OH or some combination of them blue... I don't think a Johnson , Nixon, or Reagan like landslide is remotely possible, for either party given the mood of or the demographics of the electorate...

[zulchzulu]

10. The election is certainly bound to be very polarized if...

...the candidate you think has a strong record of beating Republicans (who then get things like DOMA, NAFTA, China MFN, WTO, DADT, the War...) is the nominee. There will be great polarization within the Democratic Party as well as an incredible solution for the Republicans to get out their base.

A gay marriage amendment? Eh, even the GOP is tired of it. A flag burning amendment? Hmmm, maybe... Voting against not one, but two Clintons? Gold and a Godsend for them. Races that were guaranteed for Democrats to win now face Republican voters who would have sat out the race now in the voting booth.

You don't have to believe me. Cite another poll that's irrelevant. Cite another quote from another nun. Cite another set of red states that mean nothing in this discussion. Whatever...

This next election is too important for me to not only lose the White House but the Senate and Congress. Do you really think that the opinion of negative coattails should not be an issue or perhaps even discussed?

Oddly, Barry Goldwater's negative coattails in 1964 gave Lyndon Johnson a large Democratic majority after the major defeat of dozens of Republicans in the Congress and Senate. The Goldwater Girl could deliver us the same disastrous results.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. If You Think Hillary Will Lose Forty Five States And Get 38%

If you think Hillary will lose forty five states and get 38% of the vote a la Barry Goldwater there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion nor is there anything I can do to disabuse you of the notion that Hillary Clinton looks at the world the same way she did in 1964....

I'm curious...

Who's your mythical Democratic presidential candidate that can pummel his or her Republican opponent and elect Democrats from Alaska to Hawaii?

[zulchzulu]

12. I wasn't saying she would lose like Goldwater did

I was saying that there certainly is talk with Democratic Party ranks that she would bring negative coattails if she was the nominee.

Playing to your meme of a "mythical Democratic presidential candidate", I would say that Obama could certainly get more cross-party appeal in the Presidential race. I've met a number of moderate Republicans (who can't stand Bush) who like Obama. I could see them voting for him over some GOP knuckledragger...they are tired of the Religious Reich taking over their party...

You can give me a poll du jour saying that what I say is not the case, but I certainly see the possibility.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. We Could Match Anecdotes All Day...

If you think the GOOPERS couldn't dirty up any candidate, again, there is nothing I could do to disabuse you of that notion...

[NewHampster]

4. Why Hillary is the only Winner IMHO

Rather than jumping in here I'd like folks to read excerpts from my recent response letter to the local paper. An Obama supporter wrote about me the week before. I think it says it best.
---

Bob xxxxx my friend and compadre in campaigns past, you have my thanks for enunciating the exact issues that got me involved with Hillary in the first place.

As my wife knows, I got involved the moment Hillary announced her candidacy for two over riding reasons. We have to win this time. Beating the Rovian tactics means we must think like them and put forward the candidate best equipped to fight back against their 12 year old focused advertising, lies and rumor mongering.

About those negatives. Isn't that Republican speak? Aren't those personal feelings that they've implanted in the mind of the electorate over the past 15 years? You are watching way too much Faux News. I've asked a few outspoken Republican friends why they hate Hillary, and not one could say for sure. All they seem to know is that they are supposed to hate her. Maybe you've fallen for the same line. I believe that the wrong wing's fear and distrust of Hillary says a lot about how strong and right she must be.

You also hint at the Rovian attacks to come and seem to think Hillary will be a huge target. Well let me clue you in. The Democrats could run Billy Graham and those scum on the other side would hammer on some point until our church going friends thought he was the devil himself. Attacking strength is what they do and they do it very well. Anything to avoid issues and their own past deceits.

What will they say about Hillary that people who hate her don't already know? It's all been said and she is the only Democrat I know to fight back and come out stronger. The others are fresh meat and if you don't think there is a nasty campaign against each just waiting, then you Bob have a lot less upstairs than I thought.

What else have you forgotten from four years ago? When "rumors" started to leak out that Rove wanted to run against Dean many of us realized this was a tactic to move soft support from Dean to Kerry. He scared Dems off the stronger candidate Dean. Kerry was who they wanted and who they got. Now the republicans say Hillary is the nominee and they can't wait because she has the highest negatives in history. Stop letting Rove run our campaign.

You know Bob, they may also tell us that a woman has never won the presidency so of course we shouldn't try to change that rule. Hey, I bet they try to tell us that a Senator from a Northeastern state can't win or better yet; A woman with 35 years of public service under her belt, a woman who has always been dedicated to helping the less fortunate, a woman who was First Lady should not be President because her husband already was. Maybe she should just be a good wife and stay home to cook dinner?

Well Bob, my other reason for supporting Hillary is very sexist. I think we need a woman President. Not just a woman but a mother to take charge of our future. I like to tell people that my Great Grandmother Rosie ran the house, my Grandmother Deb ran her home while holding down a job, my Mother Marge ran our home and worked full-time and of course my Wife Dian runs our home while working longer hours than I do. We men have screwed things up pretty bad and it's time the country trusted a mother to clean up the mess and take us forward