Hil's tough two tests: She aces her health care exam...

[William769]

The health care plan unveiled by Sen. Hillary Clinton yesterday sends a long-overdue message to the 47 million Americans living without insurance: The President will see you now.

Clinton has delivered a smart, realistic plan for achieving universal coverage that establishes the Democrats as the party of ideas on the nation's most pressing domestic issue.

Unlike the Republican candidates - and President Bush before them - Clinton and the Democrats recognize that the federal government must do something to guarantee coverage for every American.

Citizens of the wealthiest country on the face of the planet simply should not have to worry that a serious illness will drag their family into bankruptcy. They shouldn't have to take their kids to the emergency room for routine care.

Rudy Giuliani and the other Republicans, though, keep pretending that tax incentives are the cure-all for these ills, that strong steps by Washington will inevitably lead to European-style "socialized medicine." GOP critics immediately tagged Clinton's plan as "HillaryCare 2.0," implying that she is repeating the political mistakes that caused her previous plan to crash and burn in 1994.

But this is exactly the attitude that caused the ranks of the uninsured to soar by 18%, or 7 million people, on Bush's watch.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/09/18/2007-09-18_hils_tough_two_tests_she_aces_her_health.html

[Richard Steele]

1. Aces? Only if it's being graded on a curve by the Health Insurance Industry.

The numbers of uninsured "soared" because PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

Her solution: pass a law that says they HAVE TO buy insurance.

Brilliant. :silly:

[William769]

3. Well according to a poll of Democrats, its the way to go.

[jgraz]

6. You mean this poll?

http://www.davidsirota.com/2006/03/news-flash-america-wants-single-payer.html

- Question 48 in the poll shows that 79% of Americans say they support "providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes" over "holding down taxes, even if it means some Americans do not have health care coverage."

- Question 49 shows 62% say they support a universal health care system "run by the government and financed by taxpayers" over the current system.

- Question 50 shows 57% say they would support this program even "if it limited your own choice of doctors" (which doesn't necessarily have to be a side-effect of a single-payer system).

- Similarly, question 51 shows 62% say they would support this program even "if it meant there were waiting lists for some non-emergency treatments" (again, not necessarily a side-effect).

Oh, no. You meant Democrat with a big 'D' (and an 'L' and a 'C'). :eyes:

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Great Find

I can't wait to see the response from the true believers.

[jgraz]

16. I'll give you a preview

* cricket noise *

* cricket noise *

* cricket noise *

* cricket noise *

[MannyGoldstein]

20. I Spit My Lunch Out, Dammit!

:rofl:

But I should have known that was coming!

[Tellurian]

50. Outline of Hillary's HCP..

AMERICAN HEALTH CHOICES PLAN

Hillary's American Health Choices Plan covers all Americans and improves health care by lowering costs and improving quality. It speaks to American values, American families, and American jobs.

It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs. If you're one of the tens of million Americans without coverage or if you don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and that coverage will be affordable. Of course, if you like the plan you have, you can keep it.


* Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

* Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

* Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.


IT'S YOUR CHOICE:
If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums.

IT'S GOOD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES:
Small businesses are the engine of new job growth in the U.S. economy but face bigger challenges when it comes to providing health care for their employees. Hillary would give tax credits to small businesses that provide health care to their workers to help defray their coverage costs. This will make small businesses more competitive and help create good jobs with health benefits that will stay here in the US.

REINS IN INSURANCE COMPANIES
Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

HILLARY CAN GET IT DONE
Nobody has worked harder or longer to improve health care than Hillary Clinton. From her time in Arkansas when she improved rural health care to her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children's Health Insurance program which now covers six million children, Hillary has the strength and experience to ensure that every man, woman and child in America has quality, affordable health care.



http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/?sc=1353&utm_source=1353&utm_medium=

[jgraz]

69. And by "outline" you mean "cheerleading spin"

:eyes:

Again, how is this better than Single Payer, supported by over 60% of the public?

[Tellurian]

72. Polly wanna cracker?

Hillary is ready to answer your questions at 8pm tonight... Send in your question(s) if your not all talk and truly have a valid question.

Where is your poll for 60% wanting single health payer...How does that stand up to Kucinich at 2% support in the polls?

Apparently, people want a viable health care plan to begin asap...otherwise we'll all be dead by the time Kucinich gets anything done and nobody will give a hoot!

[jgraz]

73. It's funny how you seem to fall back on schoolyard taunts whenever you get a tough question

And I mean "funny/pathetic", not "funny/ha-ha".

Here's the poll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3529757&mesg_id=3529775

If you want a real discussion, you'd probably get better results if you don't constantly cut and paste Hillary's campaign materials.

[Tellurian]

74. The cut and pastes are informational...

and serviceably sound information for those that yammer repetitious jargon uncharacteristic of genuine conversation .

[jgraz]

76. And the function of the childish taunts?

[Tellurian]

77. Most likely the "only" thing you're expert in..

[jgraz]

79. You're such a lovely representative for your candidate

Mama Hillary must be so proud.

[Tellurian]

75. Left Wing/Right Wing...is there a difference?

[Richard Steele]

7. Got a link for that? nm

[William769]

10. Sure.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3528346&mesg_id=3528346

[jgraz]

15. As I suspected, it says nothing about her health care plan

What were those icons again? Oh yeah:

[Richard Steele]

23. That doesn't support your claim. Try again, please.

nm

[William769]

24. If it doesn't then please show how it doesn't.

[Richard Steele]

25. No, YOU claimed it did, so the burden of proof is YOURS, not mine.

Show us where that poll indicates that Democrats
who are familiar with her Plan are expressing
support for it.

[William769]

26. If this is not what your looking for, then I don't know what to tell you.

"Sixty-one percent of those who plan to vote in a Democratic primary express confidence in Clinton’s ability to make the right decisions about health care."

[Richard Steele]

27. I agree- you don't know what to tell me.

nm

[jgraz]

29. I claim Hillary is a demon spawn from hell. Please show how she isn't

[Tellurian]

49. Here..

AMERICAN HEALTH CHOICES PLAN

Hillary's American Health Choices Plan covers all Americans and improves health care by lowering costs and improving quality. It speaks to American values, American families, and American jobs.

It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs. If you're one of the tens of million Americans without coverage or if you don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and that coverage will be affordable. Of course, if you like the plan you have, you can keep it.


* Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

* Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

* Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.


IT'S YOUR CHOICE:
If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums.

IT'S GOOD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES:
Small businesses are the engine of new job growth in the U.S. economy but face bigger challenges when it comes to providing health care for their employees. Hillary would give tax credits to small businesses that provide health care to their workers to help defray their coverage costs. This will make small businesses more competitive and help create good jobs with health benefits that will stay here in the US.

REINS IN INSURANCE COMPANIES
Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

HILLARY CAN GET IT DONE
Nobody has worked harder or longer to improve health care than Hillary Clinton. From her time in Arkansas when she improved rural health care to her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children's Health Insurance program which now covers six million children, Hillary has the strength and experience to ensure that every man, woman and child in America has quality, affordable health care.



http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/?sc=1353&utm_source=1353&utm_medium=

[jgraz]

70. Oh please, can we have more corporatist healthcare spam?

You've only posted this about a brazillion times...clearly you need to now start several cross-posted threads just to make sure we all see it. :crazy:

[jgraz]

13. He just polled himself and his mom

It was easy -- he just hollered up from the basement. :rofl:

[Tellurian]

48. Here is a brief outline of Hillary's HCP:

AMERICAN HEALTH CHOICES PLAN

Hillary's American Health Choices Plan covers all Americans and improves health care by lowering costs and improving quality. It speaks to American values, American families, and American jobs.

It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs. If you're one of the tens of million Americans without coverage or if you don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and that coverage will be affordable. Of course, if you like the plan you have, you can keep it.


* Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

* Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

* Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.


IT'S YOUR CHOICE:
If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums.

IT'S GOOD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES:
Small businesses are the engine of new job growth in the U.S. economy but face bigger challenges when it comes to providing health care for their employees. Hillary would give tax credits to small businesses that provide health care to their workers to help defray their coverage costs. This will make small businesses more competitive and help create good jobs with health benefits that will stay here in the US.

REINS IN INSURANCE COMPANIES
Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

HILLARY CAN GET IT DONE
Nobody has worked harder or longer to improve health care than Hillary Clinton. From her time in Arkansas when she improved rural health care to her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children's Health Insurance program which now covers six million children, Hillary has the strength and experience to ensure that every man, woman and child in America has quality, affordable health care.



http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/?sc=1353&utm_source=1353&utm_medium=

[bobbolink]

78. Ya mean those republicans in dem clothing?

Those ones?

[sampsonblk]

31. Its better than what we have now

[jgraz]

35. Faint praise indeed

Wouldn't you expect a presidential candidate and former head of Bill Clinton's healthcare task force to do a bit better than this?

[sampsonblk]

65. Yeah once she gets into office

This is a campaign document, not a real policy.

Of all the candidates, she is the one best suited to handle this problem. She's been there before and has the scars to prove it.

[truedelphi]

38. Thank you. Here's my addition to your remark

Cost of pain to the 47 million uninsured Americans: Enough physical pain to addict them to pain killers and to psyche meds (neither of which they can arfford) and enough financial pain to bankrupt them.

Cost of Cobra payments for one married couple after he has been laid off and he needs to continue the health ins. they had (She does independent contracting and has no insurance) $ 1,000 a month **

Glib and funny remark about Hillary being graded on a curve: priceless



**Remember - they are living on her salary and this 1K a month might mean their rent/house payment is endangered and/or grocery money is now non-existant

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Her Plan Is Triangulating BS

But so are the plans of Obama and Edwards, so I guess it's a draw.

[Adelante]

5. Yep nt

[AdHocSolver]

34. You omitted the biggest FLAW in Hillary's plan from your criticism.

If memory serves correctly, Hillary said that she would implement her plan by the end of her second term. This tells me she is NOT serious about health care reform. It is pretty assured that the next president, of whichever party, will have a slim Democratic majority in Congress. If by some fluke Hillary becomes President (which I for one think is a long shot based on wishful thinking, if not downright delusion), she would have to go for some kind of health care reform in the first 100 days, while she had political capital to spend on it.

To implement health care reform on her expressed timetable, she would have to win a second term AND have a Congress with a Democratic majority in both the Senate and the House. To expect that both conditions would be met after the 2012 election tells me that Hillary is either omniscient OR totally delusional. Therefore, I conclude that Hillary is NOT serious about health care reform.

[Tellurian]

51. Provide the definition of Triangulation!

[jgraz]

4. When they say "realistic", they mean "corporatist"

Only in this country would a proposal that forces people to buy corporate insurance and contradicts the wishes of close to 80% of the electorate be called an "Ace".

:banghead:

[mike_c]

8. WTF is with all this gushing over Sen. Clinton's "status quo plan...?"

Am I missing something? What part of the current problems with the health care system will Sen. Clinton's plan fix? Requiring everyone to buy insurance doesn't fix anything-- it just forces everyone to buy into the existing broken system. I don't understand what so many folks seem to be getting so excited about.

John Nichols sums it up nicely:

Would someone please ask Hillary Clinton to stop coming up with health care "reform" plans that are less attractive than the dysfunctional system she proposes to replace?

....

The Clinton plan maintains the current system of for-profit, insurance-industry defined health care delivery. The only real change is that, in return for minimal requirements regarding coverage of those with preexisting conditions, the government would pump hundreds of billions in federal dollars into the accounts of some of the country's wealthiest corporations. The plan's tax credit scheme would buy some more coverage for low-income families, which is good, but it would do so at a cost so immense that, ultimately, Clinton's plan will be as tough a sell as the failed 1993 "Hillarycare" proposal.

[Dr.Phool]

19. But it gives you CHOICE! She says that's what you want.

If you can't afford insurance that will cover anything other than ingrown toenails and bad breath, you're free to buy that policy. Now if you can't afford a policy that covers, say cancer, or hypertension, or heart problems, you have the choice not to buy that policy. They have to cover pre-existing conditions, IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT!

The insurance and pharmaceutical industries have bought off both parties, both houses, and all of our candidates (excepting Kucinich).

It really sucks to be a tax-paying American anymore.

[superkia]

39. Maybe it wouldnt suck if we voted for Kucinich?

[Dr.Phool]

40. It probably still would, but,

He's the only one supporting REAL Universal Health Care. Not just forcing you to buy what you can afford.

[Tellurian]

52. DK is offering a Mercedes- Too bad he can't deliver it to your driveway..

So, what good is it?

[DURHAM D]

9. I happened to catch her with Scarborough this am.

The depth of her knowledge of all the tentacles of the health and insurance issues plus how it affects regular folk is just amazing.

Also, their reconciliation conversation gave me pause. For a moment I thought not all Repubs are shit heads.

[harlinchi]

11. Doesn't Sen. Clinton use tax incentives in her plan as well?

I'm pretty sure I read this piece from her website correctly:

Senator Clinton’s plan will:


* Provide Tax Relief to Ensure Affordability: Working families will receive a refundable tax credit to help them afford high-quality health coverage.

Sen. Clinton's website: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx

I will, of course, support Sen. Clinton if she is our nominee but I am disappointed that her plan uses tax incentives to encourage affordability. I thought the use of tax incentives to give a benefit to Americans at the lower reaches of income was shown to be ineffective.

My opinion is that those who intend to use taxes to provide incentives to lower income Americans do so at the behest of various corporations who prefer the status quo.

[dflprincess]

28. The income limits set by government programs are rarely based in reality

so how much good this credit would do is questionable. Also, I see nothing that says single people would be eligible for any credits.

[sandnsea]

33. mandates & useless tax cuts & credits

Why the 50% doesn't vote. I am so angry about this plan. I just can't believe it.

[JohnnyLib2]

14. Hang tough, William765.

Positive comments will be more acceptable after the '08 convention.

:thumbsup:

[jgraz]

17. Oh yay, more poll-induced chest-thumping from the Hillary crowd

Cuz that NEVER gets old. :boring:

[Clintonista2]

41. Oh I forgot, polls only count if they favor Obama

In other words, no poll has ever counted in the history of humankind.

[jgraz]

42. And again...

Do you somehow think your little premature touchdown dances are winning supporters for your candidate?

[Clintonista2]

43. These polls simply vindicate reality

Hillary is the best candidate for the job, and Americans understand that.

[jgraz]

46. Where do you see evidence for this little pet hypothesis of yours?

And how is it more likely than the hypothesis that people just aren't paying attention yet?

In fact, where people ARE paying attention, like in ...say... Iowa, isn't Hillary BEHIND there?

[Clintonista2]

54. Iowa is JE land, and Hillary is gaining ground there

Isn't she ahead of Obama in NH by like... almost 30%?

[jgraz]

67. So by your criteria, JE is the best candidate for the job, and Americans understand that

as long as we're in Iowa. :eyes:

[Clintonista2]

71. No, that's not what I'm saying at all

[Tellurian]

55. Hillary beats her rivals HCP's HANDS DOWN!

AMERICAN HEALTH CHOICES PLAN

Hillary's American Health Choices Plan covers all Americans and improves health care by lowering costs and improving quality. It speaks to American values, American families, and American jobs.

It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs. If you're one of the tens of million Americans without coverage or if you don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and that coverage will be affordable. Of course, if you like the plan you have, you can keep it.


* Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

* Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

* Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.


IT'S YOUR CHOICE:
If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums.

IT'S GOOD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES:
Small businesses are the engine of new job growth in the U.S. economy but face bigger challenges when it comes to providing health care for their employees. Hillary would give tax credits to small businesses that provide health care to their workers to help defray their coverage costs. This will make small businesses more competitive and help create good jobs with health benefits that will stay here in the US.

REINS IN INSURANCE COMPANIES
Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

HILLARY CAN GET IT DONE
Nobody has worked harder or longer to improve health care than Hillary Clinton. From her time in Arkansas when she improved rural health care to her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children's Health Insurance program which now covers six million children, Hillary has the strength and experience to ensure that every man, woman and child in America has quality, affordable health care.



http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/?sc=1353&utm_source=1353&utm_medium=

...and they know it!

[William769]

18. Oh it's not a problem.

I see about five ignores in this thread, so I know of at least one person foaming at the mouth right now. The good news is though Hillarys heathcare plan will be able to help him. :rofl:

[ThomCat]

36. Perhaps, but every other dem candidate's plan

would help him even more.

Hillary's plan would be wonderful in comparison to what we already have. The problem is that it's timid, pro-insurance industry, and far less than what other democratic candidates are proposing.

Do we really want to gush over the least progressive proposal? :shrug:

[MadHound]

21. Aces? LOL! I love the way HRC supporters spin everything,

Including some of the most patently offensive BS. Gee, mandatory enrollment in health insurance, whether you can afford it or not. A large tax giveaway to the health insurance industry. Equal, or even increased role for the health insurance industry. That's not an ace, that's a failure.

[Clintonista2]

44. dupe delete

[Clintonista2]

45. Hmm, methinks you're the one "spinning everything"

"Gee, mandatory enrollment in health insurance, whether you can afford it or not."

Hillary has not even released her whole plan yet. She has stated several times that the remaining portion of her plan will deal with people who are unable to afford health insurance. Jeez buddy, think for yourself, instead of spewing talking points.

[MadHound]

47. Ah, so you deny that her plan is going to make insurance mandatory for everybody?

Do you deny that she is going to be giving a large tax break to the health insurance industry? Go read the report yourself and stop buying the spin.

[Clintonista2]

53. No, I contest your "whether you can afford it or not" statement

Since we don't have the next part of her plan yet, and she has stated that she has a plan to deal with those with little or no income, you should stop making incorrect assumptions.

[MadHound]

59. There are people who cannot afford health insurance, no matter what kind of tax credit you give them

They are living day to day, week to week, and can't afford to wait for that end of the year payoff. Yet as Hillary clearly states, they will still be mandated to have health insurance, which means that it will have to, initially, come out of their pocket. And if these people don't have the money for it, what happens?

She is following up here '93 plan, and if this is any indication, there isn't going to be much relief for the poor, just that mandate they can't afford.

So how do you feel about your tax money going to health insurance companies? Noticed that you hadn't touched that one.

[Clintonista2]

61. How can you recieve a tax credit if you don't have an income?

That is what the next part of Hillary's plan is meant to address. The *only* candidate who takes health insurance companies completely out of the equation is Kucinich, yet for some reason, you wouldn't know that if you were talking to an Obama/JE supporter.

[MadHound]

80. We'll see what the next part of Hillary's plan is,

That's the thing, nobody knows. But if it is like this first part, it will be a piss poor plan.
You are correct about Kucinich having the only true UHC. One more reason that I support him, time and again he is right on the issues.

[Tellurian]

56. It's you thats spinning...hahahaha!

Hillary's Plan is SOLID!

AMERICAN HEALTH CHOICES PLAN

Hillary's American Health Choices Plan covers all Americans and improves health care by lowering costs and improving quality. It speaks to American values, American families, and American jobs.

It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs. If you're one of the tens of million Americans without coverage or if you don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and that coverage will be affordable. Of course, if you like the plan you have, you can keep it.


* Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

* Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

* Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.


IT'S YOUR CHOICE:
If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums.

IT'S GOOD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES:
Small businesses are the engine of new job growth in the U.S. economy but face bigger challenges when it comes to providing health care for their employees. Hillary would give tax credits to small businesses that provide health care to their workers to help defray their coverage costs. This will make small businesses more competitive and help create good jobs with health benefits that will stay here in the US.

REINS IN INSURANCE COMPANIES
Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

HILLARY CAN GET IT DONE
Nobody has worked harder or longer to improve health care than Hillary Clinton. From her time in Arkansas when she improved rural health care to her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children's Health Insurance program which now covers six million children, Hillary has the strength and experience to ensure that every man, woman and child in America has quality, affordable health care.



http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/?sc=1353&utm_source=1353&utm_medium=

[MadHound]

60. And your post refutes my contention how, exactly?

Printing more verbage doesn't make what you say right, it just means you're spewing more BS:shrug:

[Tellurian]

63. No, I left you an option if you are disatisfied with my response....

an avenue to seek more info to your question..

It's up to you..

[Carrieyazel]

22. Richardson unveiled this plan over a month ago, so any claims that Hillary is the only one

with a "smart, realistic plan" are wrong. Ripping off other candidates plans' is something I don't see helping her one bit.

[sandnsea]

32. I hope not, this plan sucks ass

I hope Richardson's plan isn't based on tax cuts. It's great Hillary has the media behind her to blow smoke up the asses of Americans who never read the fine print - but this plan would destroy her candidacy. Mandates and tax cuts = dead.

[Clintonista2]

66. Not universal = Dead

That rules Obama out.

[sandnsea]

81. tax credits does not make it universal

Any working American who got sold the bill of goods on college tax credits will tell you that, and yeah that was Bill's solution to higher education plan. Funny we don't hear about it anymore.

I was shocked that she proposed something so stupid, until I realized this is exactly what they got away with on education so it's no wonder she thinks they can sell it again. If it weren't for the mandate, she probably would get away with it.

[Tellurian]

57. Where is the similarity...compare and contrast..

I'd like to see your comparisons of both plans:

AMERICAN HEALTH CHOICES PLAN

Hillary's American Health Choices Plan covers all Americans and improves health care by lowering costs and improving quality. It speaks to American values, American families, and American jobs.

It puts the consumer in the driver's seat by offering more choices and lowering costs. If you're one of the tens of million Americans without coverage or if you don't like the coverage you have, you will have a choice of plans to pick from and that coverage will be affordable. Of course, if you like the plan you have, you can keep it.


* Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

* Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

* Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.


IT'S YOUR CHOICE:
If you have a plan you like, you keep it. If you want to change plans or aren't currently covered, you can choose from dozens of the same plans available to members of Congress, or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare. And working families will get tax credits to help pay their premiums.

IT'S GOOD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES:
Small businesses are the engine of new job growth in the U.S. economy but face bigger challenges when it comes to providing health care for their employees. Hillary would give tax credits to small businesses that provide health care to their workers to help defray their coverage costs. This will make small businesses more competitive and help create good jobs with health benefits that will stay here in the US.

REINS IN INSURANCE COMPANIES
Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

HILLARY CAN GET IT DONE
Nobody has worked harder or longer to improve health care than Hillary Clinton. From her time in Arkansas when she improved rural health care to her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children's Health Insurance program which now covers six million children, Hillary has the strength and experience to ensure that every man, woman and child in America has quality, affordable health care.



http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/?sc=1353&utm_source=1353&utm_medium=

[Mojorabbit]

82. It won't be good

for our small business. We have a thin margin. Unless the tax credits are enough to cover the payments we will have to make to provide insurance we will be in trouble. Whatever the amt is will come off our tax bill but we still have to come up with the payments.

[ProudDad]

30. Corporate Welfare - just what I expected from her

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3529732#3529988

[Jeffersons Ghost]

37. Here's your 6th vote and...

Maybe even a vote for our first female president... I sure hope this health-care talk is more than mere lip-service.

[Tellurian]

58. Heres your 8th vote..

I hope the naysayers make some sense...sooner rather than later...

I believe Obama's Plan doesn't cover Exploding Head Syndrome..

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Luckily Hillary's does,

[Clintonista2]

62. Obama supporters are just pissed off because their candidate can't make his plan universal

[Tellurian]

64. Hell, even the people in Illinois can't afford the program he proposed..

They have no way to pay for it!

[ljm2002]

68. Hell no!

I will actively work against any candidate who tries to make this the same kind of mandated insurance we have with automobiles. I can accept it with automobiles -- it's a hassle and it's annoying, but it also makes sense and you just have to consider that expense when you get a car.

But health care? We need another system where someone tells me I have to pay a private insurance company or I am outside of the law?

And people wonder why there's been a backlash against liberals. Look: we know that authoritarian types on the right want to control us. Why is it so hard to see that the same is true in this situation: you've got the rich and the powerful, looking down their patrician noses at the rest of us, and deigning to design a system that will make us outlaws if we can't afford to buy the friggin' insurance?

PISS ON THIS!!!!!!!!!

It is not a path that will ever get us where we need to go.

[diane in sf]

83. aces!? b.s., this plan is corporate welfare