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MetalCanuck Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:34 PM
Original message
A few questions...
Do you support the constitution in its entirety? 
When I watch republican debates I hear people in the crowd Boo
when Ron Paul (the only worthwhile Candidate on the repubs
side) mentions he obeys the constitution strictly. Its his
oath of office and he would like to do somethings that are not
supported by the constitution but he can't because he took and
oath. 
Then I see Democrats (Other than Gravel and Kucinich who are
not bought and payed for) shredding the constitution left and
right enabling Bush in his domestic spying, war funding and
not impeaching a criminal element of the US government. 

So my second question is why would you support an enabler?
From my perspective Kucinich, Gravel or Paul would be the only
logical choices..if you support the Constitution that is.
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againes654 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Guess I support
the Constitution, and Kucinich. I guess we are the minority though.
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MetalCanuck Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Good man/woman:)
I wish more people would keep the constitution in mind when
they see a politicians actions and decide if they should vote
for them or not.
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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Welcome To DU.
.
Yes.

Are you begging the question that the candidates are enablers?
.
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MetalCanuck Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thank you for the welcome
I would like to bring a Canadian perspective to what is
happening to you guys. What happens to you happens to us
because we are so connected. 

Yes I believe we have enablers in the Democratic party, most
of them are called "Blue Dogs" and some of them talk
a good talk when its time for elections, then they pass Bush's
spying programs when push comes to shove. 
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AnotherGreenWorld Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hate to break it to you MetalCanuck,
but Ron Paul is an idiot; he doesn't know anything about constitutional interpretation.

If you like the Constitution, your only choice is the Democratic Party.
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MetalCanuck Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Then why are the Democrats allowing the Bush admin to continue their atrocities?
Isn't that a legit question. Dennis Kucinich calls them out on
it all the time. He is no idiot either.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. someone (I can't remember who) did a thing where they had the Declaration of
Independence as a petition and asked normal Americans if they'd sign it.

a huge majority refused, stating it was 'too radical' and 'probably illegal'

:cry:

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for a people to advance from that subordination in which they have hitherto remained, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the equal and independent station to which the laws of nature and of nature's god entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the change

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive in rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these ends, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government shall become destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing it's powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes: and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. but when a long train of abuses and usurpations, begun at a distinguished period, and pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them to arbitrary power, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --

Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to expunge their former systems of government. the history of his present majesty is a history of unremitting injuries and usurpations, among which no fact stands single or solitary to contradict the uniform tenor of the rest, all of which have in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. to prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world, for the truth of which we pledge a faith yet unsullied by falsehood.

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good:

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has neglected utterly to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people unless those people would relinquish the right of representation , a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only:

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

he has refused for a long space of time, to cause others to be elected, whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise, the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within:

he has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands:

he has suffered the administration of justice totally to cease in some of these colonies, refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers:

he has made our judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount of their salaries.

he has erected a multitude of new offices by a self-assumed power, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

he has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies and ships of war:

he has affected to render the military, independent of and superior to civil power:

he has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitutions, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their pretended acts of legislation, for quartering large bodies of armed troops among us;

for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders they should commit on the inhabitants of these states; for cutting off our trade with all parts of the world;

for imposing taxes on us without our consent;

for depriving us of the benefits of trial by jury;

for transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses;

for taking away our charters, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments;

for suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever;

he has abdicated government here, withdrawing his governors, and declaring us out of his alegiance and protection;

he has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people:

he is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy unworthy the head of a civilized nation:

he has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions of existence:

he has incited treasonable insurrections of our fellow citizens with the allurements of forfeiture and confiscation of our property:

he has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating and carrying them into slavery in another hemispere, or to incure miserable death in their transportation hither. this piratical warfare, the opprobium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian king of Great Britain. he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce : and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he had deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them: thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

in every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. a prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a people who mean to be free. future ages will scarce believe that the hardiness of one man, adventured within the short compass of twelve years only, on so many acts of tyranny without a mask, over a people fostered and fixed in principles of liberty.

Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. we have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over these our states. we have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here, no one of which could warrant so strange a pretension: that these were effected at the expense of our own blood and treasure, unassisted by the wealth or the strength of Great Britain: that in constituting indeed our several forms of government, we had adopted one common king, thereby laying a foundation for perpetual league and amity with them: but that submission to their parliament was no part of our constitution, nor ever in idea, if history may be credited: and we appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, as well as to the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which were likely to interrupt our correspondence and connections. they too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity, and when occasions have been given them, by the regular course of their laws, of removing from their councils the disturbers of our harmony, they have by their free election re-established them in power. at this very time too they are permitting their chief magistrate to send over not only soldiers of our common blood, but Scotch and foreign mercenaries to invade and deluge us in blood. these facts have given the last stab to agonizing affection, and manly spirit bids us to renounce forever these unfeeling brethren. We must endeavor to forget our former love for them, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends. we might have been a free and a great people together; but a communication of grandeur and of freedom it seems is below their dignity. be it so, since they will have it: the road to happiness is open to us too; we will climb it apart from them and acquiesce in the necessity which denounces < our [everlasting Adieu!> eternal separation!

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled do , in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these states, reject and renounce the allegiance and subjection to the kinds of Great Britain and all others who may hereafter claim by, through, or under them; we utterly dissolve and break off all political connection which may have heretofore subsisted between us and the people or parliament of Great Britain; and finally we do assert and declare these colonies to be free and independent states, and that as free and independent states they shall hereafter have power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That sure explains a lot.
:banghead:
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