The DIRTY LITTLE SECRET about Health Care....

[Armstead]

In a nutshell:

The Health Care System Stinks EVEN if you are fully insured. The dirty little secret is that the health care system today is specifically designed NOT to provide adequate coverage or medical care.

Why? Because of pressure that includes the monopolistic insurance system, and the fucking politicians who decided they'd rather pay billions to destroy Iraq than deal with US healthcare.

I won't go into all of the details. Over the past five months, I have been intricately involved with the health care system because my mother has been going through a severe health crisis.

My mother has solid insurance coverage, including Medicare and two comprehensive supplemental private plans.

But even with that, she has been pushed and pulled and twisted into knots by the present health care system.

In the past, a hospital would treat you, keep you for long enough to make sure you were recovered and provide rehabilitation if necessary.

But now, they are forced to treat only the specific symptom you were admitted for, and then kick you out as soon as possible. Forget a period of "observation." Forget follow up rehabilitation in a clinical setting.

If you can't go home, you get booted into a nursing home, where you are largely neglected. If your medical problem flares up again, they stick you in an ambulance and ship you back to the hospital, and the cycle starts all over again.

My mother's case is not an isolated case. This is business as usual in the current environment.

And it is NOT because the people who work in health care are bad. Most of them are great people who provide the best possible care -- WHEN THEY ARE ALLOWED TO. They are just as frustrated and angry at this situation as the patients. They say that the system has gone to hell in a handbasket over the last ten or 15 years.

"We need universal nationalized health care" is the phrase I have heard from many administrators, nurses and doctors over the last several months.

ANY CANDIDATE who does not acknowledge that the health care system is FUNDAMENTALLY BROKEN, and does not propose FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE, is missing the boat.

[Maat]

1. Amen (n/t)!

[Blecht]

2. Agree 100%

Kicked!
Recommended!

Health care is BROKEN. No other way to put it.

The sad thing is that the message will not get out -- our media are controlled by the people who profit from the disaster, and they certainly are not going to do anything to kill their golden-egged goose.

[Armstead]

3. Until they get sick....

[Blecht]

5. Then they get shuffled off to die

... and new ones take their place to propagate the propaganda.

An alternate universe exists in all the media, and unfortunately all but a few politicians seem to live in that universe.

"People like Bush."
"The Democrats cannot impeach Bush/Cheney."
"People trust Petraeus."
"The media are liberal."

And on and on ...

What is amazing is that in spite of all the propaganda, the PEOPLE still manage to figure things out. But the politicians, with very few exceptions, still cater to the "conventional wisdom" that is broadcast nonstop. A politician who speaks truth to power is always marginalized as a "kook," while the corporatists are praised as "renegades" and "straight talkers."

[Armstead]

13. Eggs Ackley

The idea that a humane health care system is "socialistic" and "far left" is another of those canards that are perpetually foist upon us.

[Enthusiast]

94. Foisted on us by the insurance industry.

Through obfuscation, misinformation and wheelbarrow loads of campaign contributions the insurance industry maintains the status quo.

The insurance industry serves no earthly purpose when it comes to health care. They exist only to deny care and make profits.

This is the message that should get out.

[kimmerspixelated]

4. Yes, and it is broken way beyond

just insurance coverages. The entire system is designed to keep you ill, so that you will need more costly care and be dependent on drugs that never cure anything. The one thing that Big Pharma and medical heretics are afraid of is the fact that the public is being enlightened by nutritional science and alternative medicines. This scares the shit out of them because they know the jig is up sooner or later, unless they can further their fascist ways by trying to legally put places like your local health food store, etc. out of business. And they are working on doing just that!

Support Health Freedoms! www.healthfreedomusa.org

[endarkenment]

6. Been in that same hell hole with my mom.

Kicked to the crub, back home, another crisis, back in the hospital, over to the nursing home for rehab, no progress, kicked to the curb. Rinse and repeat. We ended up having to sell her house for her to get the money to pay for private care and move her in with my sister. Now at least she is not rotting in a nursing home and not being turfed from one institution to the next. Hopefully she will not outlive her assets. What a great system.

See sicko.

[bitchkitty]

59. I can't believe you just said that.

Hopefully she won't outlive her assets? My mother died just over 2 weeks ago. I'd eat beans for the rest of my life to have her back. I'd scrounge in garbage cans.

[silverojo]

148. @ bitchkitty :

I think what the poster meant was that she hoped the assets would last for the rest of her mother's life, so that her mother wouldn't have to face a severe financial crisis as well.

But I totally understand why you're sensitive. Losing someone close to you is so painful. It's been 6 months since my aunt died (she was like a second mother to me), and I still find myself in tears at the most unexpected things.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Lugnut]

7. You won't get an argument from me.

Does anybody have health care coverage that's adequate anymore?

[fenriswolf]

10. yes their are such people

they are called our elected representatives, who dont want us to have the same lvl of health care that they have

[nxylas]

36. Or aren't aware that not everybody has that level of healthcare

Our elected representatives and millionaire media pundits live in a different world from the rest of us. The Beltway has become a moat, keeping the King and his Courtiers safe inside the castle, oblivious to the plight of the peasants outside the castle walls.

[Steve_in_California]

8. 100% right

I was in the same position as you, 10 years ago. My mother was fraudulently diagnosed with cancer then murdered by her doctors in attempt to conceal the fraud. I spent the next 5 years of my life working with the FBI's health care fraud division. Just as indictments were about to be filed, the prosecutor was mysteriously reassigned to another office.

The health care crisis in America is a crisis of compentence and honesty amongst health care providers. The recent study entitled "Death by Medicine" conducted by 4 PhD's and 3 M.D.'s, studying thousands of medical charts, concluded that every year the health care system kills 800,000 and injures another 20 million of our people.

The elderly are the most at risk.

Doctors and nurses routinely cover up for each other, falsify medical records, and lie to patients and their families.

If you feel that your elderly mother is not being treated properly, there are actions you can and should take.

1. Most states have "Elder Abuse" laws: these laws supercede insurance considerations since health care providers assume the role of care custodians when they treat elderly or disabled people. Care custodians are required by law to provide for a person's medical needs and ensure their physical and mental health and safety. It is a felony to violate these very stict laws.

2. Most states have elder-care ombudsmen whose role it is to advocate for the rights of seniors whether in nursing home or hospital environments. Contact the obdudsmen for your area.

3. Write letters of complaint to the hospital and doctors and demand that these letters be made a part of the permanent medical record. Send the letters by certified mail. The legal benefit of doing this cannot be overstated. The medical record is their only defense of charges of malpractice, abuse or abandonment. Your letters will call into question the actions reflected in those records.

4. Trust no-one: smiles and warm handshakes are part of the course these people go through by their risk assessment advisors. Always ask for copies of all medical records and don't allow any excuses.

[Mojorabbit]

83. This is an outright lie

"Doctors and nurses routinely cover up for each other, falsify medical records, and lie to patients and their families."
Speaking as a retired nurse married to a family physician. You may have had a bad experience with a health care practicioner but don't paint the whole profession with your broad brush.

[Enthusiast]

95. But Majorabbit, health care.........

Majorabbit, health care practitioners HAVE failed the patient in their duty to rat out the insurance industry. Why aren't you shouting from the rooftops in outrage?

The health care practitioner is the only one in a position to help.

Now, I see my doctor owns a piece of the pharmacy and maybe part of the insurance company. I see it as a huge conflict of interest.

Healthcare practitioners are not without sin on this!

[AnotherGreenWorld]

136. Healthcare practitioners are certainly not without sin.

You're definitely right about that.

[Mojorabbit]

141. My husband spends hours

on the phone trying to get insurance companies to pay for needed procedures. He does not own the companies and is up against bean counters who think they know better every day.

And I will say again, after twenty years as a nurse, the statement made
"Doctors and nurses routinely cover up for each other, falsify medical records, and lie to patients and their families." is an outright lie.

If a mistake is made in the hospital it is written up in an incident report. I have never seen records falsified, and have never lied to a patient and I know more medical people than other professions. It is not ethical.No one I know would think it was ethical. There are bad apples anywhere, but this statement is a lie.

[JDPriestly]

143. What's the procedure called --- something and morbidity.

A doctor who makes a serious mistake is called before other doctors to discuss his failings. There are no cover-ups.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

150. Doctors cover-up the malpractice of other doctors.

Doctors also often cover-up and don't admit their own mistakes.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

135. No, it's not.

In addition, medical organizations discourage doctors from testifying against other doctors. And insurance companies often do not allow doctors insured by them to testify against other doctors also insured by them.

The medical profession is just like any other profession: most doctors are mediocre, some are grossly incompetent, and a very rare few are great. The problem is that this is a profession for which that is unacceptable. We need higher standards.

It's an immoral profession.

[silverojo]

149. Sorry Mojorabbit, but it happens ALL the time

While in the midwest, my mom worked in a hospital's medical records department, and you wouldn't BELIEVE what those doctors were writing. One outright admitted (in the transcribed notes) to lying to a patient's family, and adding, "I think they accepted it (the lie)." Doctors were making all sorts of snide remarks about the patients, very unprofessional.

Now that we're in the West, Mom and I are currently poring through the medical records of my late aunt (as we're going to try to sue for malpractice). They lied about what my aunt said, they lied about what my mom said, they lied about the things they said to all of us...it's unreal. They'll do anything to cover their a$$es.

And this isn't an isolated incident...my medical records from different doctors are filled with similar lies. Before they retired, my mother and aunt worked at a prominent medical clinic (Mom, once again, in medical records), and the lies to cover incompetence were flying thick and fast.

Someone observing medical records for 30 years sees a lot more than just an "isolated incident".

[AnotherGreenWorld]

151. You're right about that.

That's been my experience as well, and the experience of millions others as well.

Good luck with the lawsuit.

But I hope you've found a good lawyer: medical malpractice cases are extremely difficult, even when a doctor kills a patient.

Doctors, as you well know, falsify records, cover-up their mistakes, get other doctors to back them, etc.

Medical organizations discourage doctors from testifying against other doctors. It's very hard to find experts in the same field who will testify that your doctor deviated from accepted medical practices. And so on.

It's just a very corrupt profession, more about profits than people.

I sincerely wish you the best, and I'm sorry you're in this situation.

[silverojo]

162. Thank you so much.

I know it's going to be an uphill battle, but we're going to give it our best shot--she wanted it that way, and I literally promised her on her death bed (as I tried to give her CPR) that we'd sue on her behalf. At least one thing on our side is that they can't change the medical records, because my aunt compiled 3 huge notebooks of all the medical records she got from these people over the years.

You can see in these records, how these doctors contradict their own words, cover their butts, and play their favorite game of Blame The Patient, for anything that goes wrong.

Will we succeed? I have no idea. I do know that we're going to carry out my aunt's wishes, for better or worse.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

137. I'm so sorry to hear that your mother was murdered by her own doctor.

:(

Does the murderer/doctor still practice medicine?

[superkia]

9. Dennis Kucinich is my hope for change in this country!

[Blecht]

11. Kucinich the Kook?

That's how he's portrayed, and that portrayal is not going to change.

He's got my support, too, but I'm not too optimistic about his chances. In spite of the enormous odds of his getting any kind of fair shake in any forum during the campaign, I am giving 100% of the money I can afford to donate to his campaign. (Sorry DU -- you'll have to wait until Kucinich drops out before you'll have the chance to give me back my star.)

[zazzle]

32. We tried that in 2004 -

However, of all the top candidates, John Edwards would be more likely to consider Kucinich's ideas and positions.
Hopefully - people will wake up! or else - HillaryCare in 10 years!

[redqueen]

34. Tried what? n/t

[fenriswolf]

12. DK for universal health care

and getting rid of free trade, and for governement reform, and for restoration of checks and balances aaannndddd for PEACE as the norm not war.

[demodonkey]

14. K & R for my mother -- look what they are doing to her!

Still not settled either!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1659401

:grr:

[earth mom]

15. I have good health care and got jerked around this summer with an lingering illness.

Unless doctors can toss you a prescription and kick you out the door for good, they just really don't want to deal with you.

Health care these days is like going through the drive through at McDonalds. :puke:

[Cleita]

128. That's exactly when you get jerked around, when you have

a lingering illness, or develop a chronic one. They do not want to cover unhealthy people, you know those people who actually need health care.

[robinlynne]

16. Thank-you!

[hedgehog]

17. My doctor and pharmacist both are slowly losing their minds dealing with insurance companies.

The doctor writes a prescription , and it gets rejected by the insurance company. I try to get a refill, but I'm a day early. The doctor wants to give me a test, but he has to come up with a diagnosis to justify the test. (If he knew exactly what was going on, he wouldn't need the test!) Members of my family have been kicked out of hospitals because they are only allowed so many days following a particular diagnosis or procedure. Nothing like an emergency re-admission due to post op complications! I have six children and I was discharged the third day after giving birth with no allowance for how long the labor had been, or what shape I was in. With some babies I probably could have walked out of the delivery room, with others I probably should have been kept for a week to 10 days. My favorite: my doctor can not charge for an immunization given during an office visit. So much for preventive care!

[Armstead]

24. Yep.

"Nothing like an emergency re-admission due to post op complications!"

You think they'd figure out that it might have been more efficient to keep them in care than to have to readmit.

[LibDemAlways]

39. My daughter was born by emergency c-section on

a Wednesday night. I was in intense pain and heavily medicated all day Thursday. Friday the hospital tried to kick me out, but I almost fainted from the pain when I tried to get out of bed. They grudgingly let me stay. Saturday morning about 8 AM they hoisted me into a wheelchair and sent me packing. I was in no condition to take care of an infant. It was horrible.

When my mom had me way back when, it was a "normal" delivery. She stayed in the hospital a full week as was the norm back then. Things have changed, and not for the better.

[Stuckinthebush]

89. Sounds very familiar

My first child was delivered by emergency C-section. Had it not been for the fact that my wife is a physician at the hospital and she had a legion of people going to bat for her, we would have had the same situation. This is unfair and shows that we have an ugly dual system in health care today.

[LibDemAlways]

92. And the kicker was that the insurance company tried to

get out of paying for the c-section because it hadn't been "pre-approved." The doctor had to intervene before they footed the bill. Unbelievable.

[Stuckinthebush]

105. Oh, that is rich

A pre-approved emergency C-section.

Jeez.

[bobbolink]

70. Are they losing their minds enough to take action?

Have you told them both about PNHP, and ask that they join?

All of this will continue as long as we all are content with telling our personal stories, and letting it go at that.

All of this will continue as long as the professionals see it as their personal problem, and find ways to get out of the system.

THE BIG PROBLEM is that we aren't all seeing this as a SYSTEMIC problem, and treating it as such.

[gateley]

18. I'm going to ask AGAIN, does anybody understand why other that Kucinich and

Ron Paul, none of the other candidates even seem to CONSIDER a single payer option? Have any of them been questioned about it and if so, what was there response?

[antigop]

19. Because.....

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/sickos-for-sale/candidates/

[gateley]

22. Of course. I actually know this. It's always the money. Thanks. nt

[rucky]

78. no wonder she's smiling in that picture. n/t

[Nederland]

52. Americans want choice

Americans don't like the idea of not having a choice. They hate it in fact. When you have a single payer, by definition you have a single source of money for health care. Single source means no choice. So the answer to your question is that none of the viable candidates support single payer because they know the idea is political suicide.

[emmadoggy]

53. Huh?

Just because the PAYMENTS for your medical care come from one place doesn't mean your MEDICAL CARE comes from one place. This notion of not having any CHOICE doesn't make sense to me. Doctors, hospitals, clinics would all still be set up as they are now and you could go anywhere you want. Where are people losing their choice? People coming from HMO's would have MORE choice. The only choice people really lose, the way I see it, is choosing which insurance plan has the LEAST exorbitant premiums, deductibles and copays and the fewest exclusions of coverage. Who'd miss that?

[Nederland]

55. Whoever controls the money controls everything

It's really that simple.

When you have a single source for payment that source controls everything, plain and simple. That source decides if a particular procedure, drug or operation is worthwhile. It would in effect control everything that's important.

[emmadoggy]

57. Uhh, isn't that what insurance companies are ALREADY doing?

And on a much more arbitrary basis a lot of the time.

Hell, if you ask me, just the fact that 1. EVERYONE would have coverage and 2. HUGE amounts of money would be saved in administrative costs alone make it a worthwhile endeavor to me.

[Nederland]

93. There is more than one insurance company though (nt)

[Armstead]

98. That's basically what we have now

There may be more than one health care plans, but there isn;t really a choice when they are all equally awful.

[bobbolink]

74. DAMNED RIGHT! I DEMAND choice over who responds to a fire alarm at my house!

I don't want just any old fireman and firetruck coming to my house-- I want to CHOOSE who will respond!

[bread_and_roses]

85. I guess that's why people hate Medicare so much, right?

If the idea is "political suicide" it's because of right-wing spin like "taking away your choice." In our health "care" system, run by insurers, the corporations have all the choices, not the patients. And, as has been amply demonstrated over and over again, they choose profit, not care, not health.

[JDPriestly]

107. Americans have less choice than Europeans who have single-payer health care.

I lived in Europe for over 13 years. I could go to any doctor on the national health care plan whose load allowed him or her to take me. I was never refused by a doctor. Due to the mysterious medical problem of one of my children, I tried numerous doctors before finding one who could help.

Here, if you are insured, you have to stick with a doctor approved by or enrolled in your plan. So, unless you are very rich an able to pay for medical care yourself no matter the cost, your choice of doctors and hospitals is very limited.

I have Kaiser. I like it very much. But I am quite aware that my choice of doctors is very limited.

When I lived in Europe, the doctors set up their own offices and were independent. They could afford to do that because they did not have to worry about collecting bills or getting paid. That freed private doctors from a lot of worry and work that is extremely unpleasant. They did not have to send bills to collection agents.

Not only do patients have more choices, but the doctors can relax about their billing. It's a good deal for all concerned.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

115. Yes, my Norwegian cousin told me that when she moved to a new town

she went to the city hall, and they gave her a list of local doctors to choose from.

[ramapo]

117. Americans DO NOT HAVE CHOICE

I have to scream anytime I hear how we have all this choice.

Here in NJ, our small company has a choice of four insurance companies offering a menu of plans, all of which LIMIT your coverage to various degrees.

Your CHOICE of doctor, hospital, and other providers is LIMITED and can CHANGE AT ANY TIME. There are out-of-network provisions but this gets VERY expensive, especially on top of constantly increasing premiums.

Like your doctor? Well guess what, he may drop or be dropped from the plan. Y

We are at the MERCY of the insurance company.

If you are an individual attempting to get coverage, the situation is worse.

[youthere]

154. Í can't choose my doctor..I can't choose my hospital..

and my doctor can't choose my medications or my treatment procedures. My insurance company gets to make those calls, and I get to pay $450 a month for the priviledge of not being able to choose.

[LSK]

97. READ EDWARDS PLAN

Choice between Public and Private Insurers: Health Care Markets will offer a choice between
private insurers and a public insurance plan modeled after Medicare, but separate and apart from it.
Families and individuals will choose the plan that works best for them. This American solution
will reward the sector that offers the best care at the best price. Over time, the system may evolve
toward a single-payer approach if individuals and businesses prefer the public plan.

http://www.johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care-overview.pdf

[JDPriestly]

108. Edwards has the best plan. It disarms all critics and will result

in letting the market decide whether single-payer works better than private insurance companies.

[fenriswolf]

118. and here

http://whitehouseforsale.org/

[Quakerfriend]

20. You, of course, are exactly right. I started working in healthcare

in '81 when the goal was TO CARE for the patient, in all regards. Things have gone so wrong since.

I myself went to Mexico for treatment when I found out that I had advanced metastatic breast cancer 9 years ago. (I went misdiagnosed for over 1 yr)

After admitting myself to a hospital in Tijuana, I was completely well in less than five weeks. And, I used only alternative methods not allowed in the US.

One thing that I feel very deeply about is the legal stranglehold that requires that so many of the elderly get heavy duty psych meds. Big Pharm is so utterly corrupt.

In fact, our country is utterly and totally corrupt. Where did the caring go?

[nxylas]

37. What happened?

I've only lived in this country for 4 years and I assumed that American healthcare had always been like that. What changed to make it worse?

[ProudDad]

77. Corporations made it worse

For profit leeches who took over the system beginning during nixon's execrable reign...

Since the corporations got in charge of the Health Care delivery and financing system, they've cut costs by denying care...in order to meet the increasingly larger profit "requirements" of their shareholders...

There used to be doctors who had little decentralized family practices. They didn't make a million bucks a year... They ministered to the sick and performed preventative care. They are GONE now. Under the crushing weight of debt for colleges they can't afford to open up a "little practice" anymore -- they must join the corporate juggernaut or wither and die.

There are lots of reasons but at bottom the corporatization of "health care" is the root cause.


On Edit: The same corporate interests that all of the candidates, ESPECIALLY CLINTON, are pandering to...

[ulysses]

21. k&r

Good to see you posting again.

[Armstead]

25. Hey there

[AZBlue]

23. Bravo! And this is why I still have NO candidate.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom's troubles - hope it all turns out ok in the end!

[bunkerbuster1]

75. Why not Kucinich?

He's backing a sensible single-payer system.

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-healthy-nation/

If this is a deal killer issue for you, you should be working for that man, methinks.

[FREEWILL56]

86. Correct me if I'm wrong or missed something here

and don't missunderstand me as I like Kucinich, but medicare is broken too, especially after bush got into the presidency. There are high deductables and we don't pay let alone cover it all thingys going on there too and that's fueling aftermarket insurance coverage that is adding to the costs to the patient without full payments or coverage on overcosts not covered by medicare. Now nobody even knows which way to turn because of the complexities introduced by bush's administration, but even under medicare the insurance companies win and the patient losses, not only needed healthcare but their money too. Don't forget that many are on fixed incomes that are rediculously low and these costs are killing those on social security and lest we not forget that medicare is not free to those on social security either, but the costs are forced upon them. He better revamp it all to make it work as you just can't say it'll now just all be under medicare as even that has been geared to the insurance companys' benefits while benefits to those on ss are dwindling along with their money.

[bunkerbuster1]

87. I realize that Medicare has long term fiscal issues

and I don't pretend to have a great grasp of when/where its funding will become a bone fide crisis.

I do believe that with a major overhaul, we'll get everyone insured and undergoing the kind of preventative care that so many have been forced to do without.

But if you can point me to some online resources you trust that have a clear-eyed handle on these issues, I'm happy to learn more.

[FREEWILL56]

90. You seem to forget that social security's medicare is an insurance.

It is setup in many respects like any other insurance company with the bottom-line in mind, is my point. As to a website you can go to social security's website. It is not a question of you learning more, but that just shoving everything into one insurance that in and of itself is broken too doesn't work well for the patients and the proof is in the fact that so many supplemental insurances are needed to bail out the patient on ss at a high cost to the patient.

[Armstead]

100. A single payer pool would have access to a lot more money

Medicare is strapped -- and it is subject to political winds.

A single payer plan -- or at one that is more in that direction -- could concentrate all of the money now being spread out and diluted among different corporations and the profit factor.

[fenriswolf]

119. kucinich has stated time and time again...

his health care system has no place at all for the health insurance corporation, none.

[FREEWILL56]

138. So does that mean 100% coverage of all ailments

with no copays and eliminating upfront costs with medicare and then everybody else gets shoved in there with those on ss thusly eliminating all insurances? I have seen some of Dennis on the subject, but none of it is quite clear to me what is being proposed by him. I had hoped somebody would show me more specifically what he proposes.

[Greyhound]

146. Here,

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-healthy-nation/

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR00676:@@@D&summ2=m&

[JDPriestly]

109. The high deductibles are easily changed.

What you are describing is called sabotage. That is what the Bush administration is about -- sabotage of everything that works well in this country. Frankly, imo, it is not just the revered general who betrays us. It's every member of the administration. They are all betrayers of everything that is good about our country including what used to be Medicare.

[FREEWILL56]

139. I agree.

We need to start fixing what they did to this country, but that's when we are able to get in there to do it and as soon as they are satisfied to show that a democrat can't perform miracles fixing ALL of the messes the cons created that they will use it as a platform in 4 years and get back in there to further their dirty deeds against us and the country. It's a recipe for inevitable dissaster that we cannot stop unless we could guarantee democrats, that don't betray us the American people, to be in there from here on. Who would've thought that our very rights would've been downgraded or eliminated among so many other traitorous deeds by them and they not only get away with it, but have some support through misguided, brainwashed, and lied to people within their own party with tactics the nazis used. I don't need to go on about the bush family ties to nazis either as that is historical fact.
I'm just shy a royal rant here, but I try to hold hope for us.

[Greyhound]

145. Medicare is somewhat broken but not nearly to the point of the rest of what remains of our

health care system.

I know we don't have much of a memory anymore, but I would like to point out that the system we have now is what remains after "privatization" for over a quarter century. We have less of everything than we did in the 70s (and Dog forbid, if we had a natural disaster on the scale of New Orleans, and they actually tried to help people, we didn't have enough capacity then) in order to make more profit for the industry. For an entire decade they shut down existing hospitals and first, replaced them with clinics, then later shut down the clinics.

Fewer beds per capita (many small communities don't even have facilities), fewer workers per patient, etc. Our "representatives" have been cutting and cutting and cutting for decades, and this is part of the strategy. In the beginning, they spread the "private sector is more efficient than government" lie so often and for so long that most people still believe it. Now, they have been ruining every aspect of government that remains so they can say, "see we told you government was bad", and sadly too many, far too many, people are believing that too.

Your reply is, itself, evidence of how well it is working, and it isn't limited to health care, ask any postal employee that has been there longer than this maladministration, ask a scientist that has worked for EPA or NOAA
or the Interior Dept., or SSA, or you name it. If it isn't about blowing shit up and killing people, it has, and continues to be, purposely ruined.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

26. Agreed.

This system is BROKEN and must be completely overhauled to fix it. The only solution I see is having a single payer system where insurance profit is taken out of the picture. The greedy bastards won't give up their money-driven "health care" system easily, though.

[slipslidingaway]

27. Thank you K&R n/t

[killbotfactory]

28. K&R

[tom_paine]

29. Yes, growing sick or dying in Imperial Amerika is a shameful process

Like most any Third World Country.

[redqueen]

30. We need SINGLE PAYER... as long as PROFIT is involved... they will make money

by NOT treating you.

And yes, ALL the top three candidates want to keep profit in the picture.

[Locrian]

35. treating vs prevention

As long as there is profit in treating there will be NO incentive to prevent illness. Ever walk into a cardiac center? Its like a 5 star hotel. Our "health care" is feeding off the sick and getting paid $$$ for it.

ALL funding is for new drugs and treatment for persons already sick - NOT for figuring out WHY we are getting sick and how to prevent it. New drugs are designed to be "slightly" different only so that they can be patented. Cheap drugs that solve many of the problems are demonized so that expensive drugs can be "pushed". Did you know that when a doctor prescribes a drug it goes into a database and all the drug companies know who is prescribing what? Then they can decide who to visit and take out to dinner etc.

Any business that gets rich off of suffering, sickness, death, etc will do NOTHING to hurt their ready supply of customers.

[redqueen]

38. Exactly... the inclusion of PROFIT makes it a foregone conclusion.

I really can't believe so many are lining up in support of it so easily.

[DuaneBidoux]

67. But imagine trying to dismantle this bureaucracy!

I don't even see how it could be done. I think health care represents something like 15% of the economy. Can you imagine rearranging that much of the economy? It would take dictatorial powers and actions!

[redqueen]

76. No need to dismantle anything.

Private can still be available to those who can afford it.

It's not as much of an earth-shattering thing as the pro-corporate types would have us believe.

[DuaneBidoux]

132. Are you saying leave the corporate stuff alone and set up a public system beside it?

I guess that is doable. At least it seems to be. I'm not a corporate type but it is almost unimaginable the number of people and in what positions are employed by the health sector.

There would definitely be a lot of doctors (my own being one of them as I have discussed it) who are sick of the current system and believe it does not do what medicine should do for the people who need it, but beyond that it is hard to imagine entire groups giving up their extravagant pies without a major fight.

[redqueen]

153. Yup... that's exactly it.

No need for any duplication... Medicare would just be expanded, that's all.

The only thing is, insurance companies would face tough times. I'm really sorry for those with nice jobs in insurance, but they need to suck it up. Seriously.

What do we say to loggers who thought their jobs were more important than wildlife?
What do we say to oil workers who think their jobs are more important than the planet?

No, it won't be a walk in the park PR wise, but when is doing what's best ever easy? It won't ever be easy... money owns the media (Thanks clinton I!) so... *everything* worthwhile is gonna be an uphill battle to say the least.

[DuaneBidoux]

157. Trying single payer would also lead to enough lawsuits to choke the system for 20 years.

[redqueen]

158. How do you figure that?

:shrug:

[ProudDad]

79. It would only take

218 votes in the House
51 votes in the Senate (60 to override a filibuster)
and one vote in the White House...

HR676 -- Universal Single-Payer Health CARE...

[fenriswolf]

121. thats not the hard part

the hard part is getting the votes from people who have been bribed, blackmailed and corrupted. evidance of all and whos to say that they corporations don't groom their candidats and help them get into senate seats and congross? as far as I can remember alot of our representatives get alot of help from contributions from the same companies when it comes to relection, sometimes even when their winning is a forgone conclusion and sometimes when they are running unoposed? yes it would take a huge amount of energy to get these guys to collectivily give up on the corporate teat and admit to the guilt, when we can't even get them to do it one at a time and when the evidance is right in front of use.

[DuaneBidoux]

134. Well, when I said "imagine dismantling the bureaucracy" implicit was getting everyone that has been

bribed to give up their pieces of the pie.

All of the countries that have functioning national systems created them before (or right as) modern medicine was coming into existence. Because of that they did not have huge and powerful constituencies they had to fight against.

In any case, insuring the uninsured is relatively easy, and I dare say Clinton sounds as if she wants to continue to line the pockets of those groups creating the mess--thus I shouldn't be surprised to see big business ultimately endorse her plan, exactly as the pharmaceuticals ended up endorsing the medicare drug bill.

[fenriswolf]

156. as soon as

as soon as they can say "everyone is covered" this will no longer be brought up in congress so allthose espousing hillaries plan as a jumping off point should keep that in mind, you settle for something else then the matter will be settled.

[AngryAmish]

126. Would you cut doctor's wages?

Nursese? Lab techs? The guy parking cars at the hospital?

Who gets the haircut?

[Highway61]

31. I've been a nurse over 23 years

The "care" has deteriorated significantly. I left the field because of it. I remember years ago when my Dad would talk about how Hubert Humphrey had bladder cancer. I told him then..."they will never cure cancer...it's too profitable." He laughed me out of the front door. Well, Humphrey died and so did my Dad 15 years ago. I wasn't laughing then and I am throughly disgusted now. The ONLY one who has the answer is Dennis. No one else comes even close. We have so lost our way in this country, I fear it never coming back. Only the strong (richest) will survive, the rest of us, they hope, will fall to the wayside.

[dgibby]

ME TOO!!!

After 30+ years as an RN, I finally had enough and retired. The last (and by far, the best) job I held was at a primate sanctuary as a care giver to a baby gibbon, who had been abandoned by her mother. I got to use all of my nursing skills and knowledge with none of the stress and hassle associated with the nursing profession. It wasn't a job, it was a joy!

[Highway61]

61. Good for you

I work behind the desk in a dental practice. I LOVE it...zero stress.

Welcome to DU!!!!:hi:

edited... to say "hello"

[JDPriestly]

110. Welcome to DU!

[kaygore]

33. Same experience

My mom had excellent health insurance that would pay everything up to $2 million. However, we had to fight to get her the care that she needed and keep her in the hospital despite the hospital's being less than half full.

The hospital didn't want a black mark from the insurance company and neither do doctors. Health care in this country is far more than broken: It is a disaster. However, as long as the media keeps telling us that we have the best health care in the world, then the fantasy is the reality and truth the lie.

[Nederland]

40. Ok, so your mother had problems...

...but that is not an adequate basis for forming an opinion on an entire industry. Not even close.

The fact is that 85%-95% of those with health insurance are happy with the care they receive. Those are the real numbers derived from real studies, not anecdotal stories from one case.

http://www.healthpolicy.ucla.edu/news_06292006.html

This is the real problem facing health care reformers. Yes, people are upset that there are huge numbers of uninsured people that do not have access to good care, but they are by and large happy with their own care. If you reform the system and don't make sure that the quality of care for those people remains the same, they will hate you forever--and those people vote.

[redqueen]

43. That's a survey of Californians, and it's four years old.

Got any "real studies" that are a bit more indicative of the country as a whole... and maybe more recent?

[Nederland]

44. Tell you what

Since you don't like my link, go find your own that shows that even a bare majority of those with health insurance are dissatisfied with their care. I bet you can't.

[redqueen]

45. I was only pointing out that the numbers you were touting weren't exactly

as valid as you made them out to be.

If you want to find a better one, feel free. I ain't here to help you convince people to vote for more corporate giveaways.

:hi:

[Nederland]

48. Nice dodge

As expected, you refuse to even try to find a study proving your point because you know that you're wrong...

And this has nothing to do with corporate giveaways, it has to do with the OPs assertion that insured people are dissatisfied with their care. That assertion was based on a single example, and therefore not valid.

[redqueen]

50. Find a study to prove my point?

My point was not to say that lots and lots of misled americans are somehow unsure about their ability to afford coverage (like 6 in 10 out of the respondents in that national study from kaiser / usa today you posted) but yet still happy happy happy! with their coverage. :eyes:

My point was to derail your 'but hey... corpoate giveaways are good, cause... cause if you upset all these people... they won't vote for us!' BS argument.

I don't need a study for that.

[Nederland]

54. Of course you don't need a study

You are so certain that everybody agrees with you that finding such a study would be a complete waste of time. Right?

Well, here is a hint: if everybody agreed with you, why does DK poll in single digits? Oh, that's right, because voters are stupid.

[ProudDad]

81. That's because they are afraid

and have NOTHING else to compare it with.

I'd be willing to bet that 90% of those who are "satisfied" with their health insurance would change their tune if a) they see SiCKO or b) actually need to use it...

[Nederland]

46. Try this then

It's a national poll from 2006.

http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7572.pdf

[redqueen]

47. If you read the details of that survey of just over 1000 people

you'll find the respondents' opinions are muddled at best. Worthless, IMO.

[Nederland]

49. Fine

Go find a study of your own.

Oh, that's right, you already said you wouldn't...

Nothing like being so certain of your position that you don't need any facts to justify it.

[redqueen]

51. ...

:rofl:

[ProudDad]

82. And you don't appear to need a clear study

to support your position... :eyes:

You seem to have already had your mind made up for you that Universal Single-Payer = Commissar controlled medicine...

and you don't seem to have read the OP. The OP said NOTHING about "dissatisfaction" with the current system. It made the reasonable case, the same that SiCKO effectively made, that the current for-profit system is broken and can't be fixed without taking the corporate leeches out of the system.

[Nederland]

91. Try reading

I provided two. That's two more than anyone else on this thread.

[ProudDad]

129. Try some compassion...

for those who are tired of being fucked over, have their relatives killed or just get sick thanks to the broken for-profit system...

You've "provided" a couple of questionable "studies" to indicate that some people who don't know any better, most of whom probably haven't tried to utilize their "health insurance", appear to be "satisfied" with their "health insurance plans"...


On Edit: Keeeerist -- don't you read the "studies" you post? They both all but PROVE the OP's original contentions.

[tigereye]

62. I'm not a statistician - but actually a lot of the results of the opinion survey

support many of the points that people here (and the OP to some extent) have been making.

:hi:

There is no reason a survey of 1000 people can't be accurate. It looks like a standard Likert scale. So I don't agree that it's worthless. (unless I'm looking at a diff. survey)

It seems that they were asking reasonable questions about folks attitudes about health care.

on edit, I never have debated anything serious with you before, RQ! ;)

[redqueen]

64. I'm not saying it's inaccurate... but I do think 1000 people is a bit small.

My problem with it is that it reflects how much the media has infected people's thought processes that they're "happy" with something they're fundamentally insecure about.

"There’s a precariousness to Americans’contentment with their own health insurance coverage. Among theinsured, six in ten are at least somewhat worried about being able to afford the cost oftheir health insurance over the next few years..."

They seem to be unable to make the connection between private insurance and not being able to afford insurance.

It's frickin tragic.

[JDPriestly]

111. If you compare how "happy" Americans are with their ability to access health care

and how happy Europeans and Canadians are with their ability to access health care, I assure you, you will find that people in single payer countries are much happier. I say that based on over 13 years in Europe where I never heard a complaint about problems getting access to health care. Here, millions don't have access to health care except in dire emergencies -- and then they wait, and wait, and wait, if they get treated at all.

Compared to the single payer systems I participated in, our access to health care is awful, and we have far less choice about our providers and the kinds of care we get than I had in Europe. Far less.

One doctor even ordered experimental homeopathic medicine to be imported from England for one of my children. It worked. It was wonderful. I loved the single payer health insurance. And I loved the doctors I had in Europe.

[tigereye]

113. actually if you adjust the sample to correct/ account for differences,

it could potentially be accurate. Actually some of the survey reflected that uneasiness.

But they may be sampling from their pool of insured and that could skew results.

SInce I have been fortunate to always have had insurance in some form, and I deal with insurance companies and health care providers in my work, I may have a more positive view of insurers. I've never had a problem with them and neither have my parents, so far.

But it is awful to have so many people uninsured in a first world country (well, anywhere for that matter), but it's embarrassing that a rich country like the US cares so little about public health that it allows this to occur. We have so many technological marvels, but the populism isn't there.

I think the concept of single payer attracts many folks, but I'd have to see how it was going to be administered to feel comfortable with it - my dealings with govt. run health plans has not been positive and highly bureaucratic, as compared with commercial insurers. I think there is a way to balance commercial and public health needs and make things less about money - but I don't know the best way for that to occur.

[redqueen]

116. what govt. run health plans do you mean?

in this country, or are you referring to the single-payer plans that (just about?) every other first-world country uses?

[tigereye]

123. mostly medical assistance plans here

some run by the state and some run by public health consortiums.

[redqueen]

124. yeah... i can understand the hesitance...

and the systems in other countries aren't perfect by any means... but no sense throwing the baby out with the bathwater

[tigereye]

125. with all the money we have as a country - we can find the dough to make sure

everyone has coverage. It won't be easy, but it's doable.

see ya!

[ProudDad]

130. The trick as will all polls and surveys

is in the population being queried and the way the questions are framed.

One can get ANY result one wants with the right sample and the right question slant...

[FREEWILL56]

88. I dispute that they are happy with their coverage.

No, not that you accurately gave reference to their figures, but that I don't believe what they are saying to be true. When the costs are this high and the complexities of what's covered and if covered are not well known and changed at will many times by these insurance companies, how can I believe people are happy with it?
I believe it's more a thing of that they are happy with the idea to have any kind of insurance at all to help with the costs, but that they are not happy with their coverage being so vague, costly, and changable.

[JDPriestly]

112. And this year, I went to a Kaiser doctor and was sent to a specialist

and only after seeing him was told that just one appointment with specialist would cost $100.00 on top of my regular premiums. Now mind you, you spend, what 20 minutes in the doctor's office and it costs you $100 on top of your monthly premium. That is exorbitant. And I could not find any statement in my very lengthy contract that indicated I could be charged $100 co-pay to visit a specialist. Highway robbery by armed bandits. That's what our health care system is. I'm not criticizing the doctors, just the health insurance companies.

[fenriswolf]

122. here is a point for you

alot of these are people do not know what socialized medacine is like, these people have been told how good they have had it, these people don't realize they dont have to spend 10%+ on health care, and these people are happy because they havnt died or had a major complication,

I mean think about it, youv'e had the same thing all your life. its a hassle to pay for but you deal with it. Remember that time you broke your arm? dang cost you a pretty penny from the co-pay, and your insurance only covered the first 200 on your meds, nurse was kinda pretty though. Your arm was taken care of and now your fine, sure health care works. I'm happy because i'm healthy.

Truth is don't believe the propaganda and the lies, with insurance companies out of the way we would have a surplus of income, Hospitals would not have million dollar insurance bills and so their prices can go down. Doctors can stop having personal liability insurance and a cost goes down their as well. Employers don't have to pay X$ per hour for you and you don't have to pay into your plan anymore. Sure your taxes go up a bit. Well you know what your probably saving money and with a well funded health care system (imagine if we cut our DoD budget in half, would still be the biggest by far in the world) but I'll bet our quality of health care would be the best.

[hunter]

41. Health care in the USA is rotten, whether or not you have health insurance.

The health insurance industry cares about profits, not your health. DUH. They watch the money stream, not your health. It's all about your wallet.

Doctors and nurses and other health care professionals are getting shaken down by the corrupt health insurance and pharmaceutical industries too. In too many cases their best efforts to provide appropriate health care are crushed because appropriate health care often reduces some revenue stream overseen by an MBA in an office somewhere who only sees the numbers on a spreadsheet and not the bigger picture.

[redqueen]

58. No no no... you have it all wrong... people LOVE their insurance!

[pansypoo53219]

42. and hillary

wants to KEEP FOR PROFIT INSURANCE in the system.

stoopid stoopid stoopid.

[Branjor]

56. Yes...

I agree 100% and this story is not getting out because our media are broken too, as badly as the health care system.

It would be great if you could do a guest editorial in a newspaper on this subject. It really needs to get into newsprint.

[Greyhound]

60. So how do we COMPEL the "top tier" candidates to acknowledge this

and move the only real solution through the system?

The problem is plainly obvious, as is the solution, buy they adamantly refuse to acknowledge it. The health care workers are stretched like a piano wire, the patients are dying, and the families of the sick are being bankrupted. The only players that are doing well are the so-called health care corporation, the pharmaceutical corporations, and the insurance corporations.

Conyers-Kucinich, HR.626, has at least 77 co-sponsors in the House and even after passage will take almost three years to be implemented, we can't wait any longer.

Write/call/e-mail/fax your Representatives and tell them flat out, no money or votes until they get on this. If we fail to act, all of us will eventually be ruined by this.



ETA: Glad to see almost 50 recommendations, now get those messages out right now.

[ProudDad]

131. "how do we COMPEL the "top tier" candidates to acknowledge this"

DON'T VOTE FOR THEM...

URGE EVERYONE you know to NOT vote for them...

Urge them to tell everyone they know NOT to vote for them...

Demonstrate against them when they come to town (if you can get close enough)...

Etc...

[Greyhound]

144. Done and will continue to do it, but it is not compelling. Barak was here

last month and made it clear (to me anyway) that he will not even consider, let alone fight for this. They are playing the "what are you going to do, vote Republik?" card more blatantly than usual.

[bobbolink]

63. "They are just as frustrated and angry at this situation as the patients."

Thenit's time they TAKE ACTION!

How many of those "great people" are members of PNHP?

How many of those "great people" are ready to actually have the courage of their convictions?

""We need universal nationalized health care" is the phrase I have heard from many administrators, nurses and doctors over the last several months."

What are they doing about it?

Are they concerned enough to TAKE ACTION?

Complaining to each other isn't doing one fucking thing to change the system.

If ALL these great administrators, nurses and doctors would join the one organization that is doing something, if they would all join together and HIT THE STREETS, maybe then we'd see something happening.

But, they're all too willing to fume in silence, and let us take the hindmost.

[AllyCat]

72. I work through my union SEIU to pressure/lobby politicians to fix this

In the last year, we have had articles published in our local paper, met with our U.S. Representative, lobbied state and federal legislative branches, circulated petitions, and educated other staff about the problem. Many of us ARE working on this. But we all need to speak out at every opportunity!

[bobbolink]

73. Thank you for your efforts, and SEIU has been great. BUT, I want to hear from the OP on this.

A big problem lies at our own feet..... we see this as an individual problem, rather than a systemic problem, and I want to know if the OP will actually talk to those who are "upset" about it and urge them to take action, or whether it's just more communal griping, which goes nowhere.

We will get universal, single payer WHEN WE DEMAND IT, and not a moment sooner.

[lilymidnite]

65. I feel so lucky

My husband was released from the hospital about 2 weeks ago, after an extended illness.
His care was excellent, including several teams of doctors. The nursing staff was
incredible. The didn't want to let him go, despite him feeling well, because of trying
to get a blood level to "clinical" (coumadin/blood thinning/INR). There was no issue
with insurance. I feel so lucky. Insurance process has been (so far) painless. Yes,
we owe money, but not the $50K that his care was billed at.

Also, the hospital has free WiFi and I was able to be at
the hospital (and do my job wirelessly) from 7 AM to 8 PM every day in order to be an advocate.
I feel it's very, very important that hospital patients have an advocate whenever possible,
especially if there is anaesthesia or heavy painkillers being administered.

I'm not saying that the health care system is not broken in the US. I am saying that there are
pockets of good care/insurance.

[bobbolink]

69. Since you've been so lucky, and that's what it was.... what will you be doing now about the state of

health care in this country?

What action are you taking on behalf of those of us who aren't so lucky?

You see, the reason I'm asking is..... all those who are PERSONALLY doing just fine with the current system, then stand back and let the rest of us do what we can. THAT'S why it's taking so long to get any changes made.

"How many deaths will it take til they know, that too many people have died?"

[DuaneBidoux]

66. I'm not sure it's a secret. I think any patient could tell you the same.

The problem is that insurances, hospitals, specialists, all have their hands in the government to the problem where it couldn't be fixed.

[november3rd]

68. I know what you mean, Arm

I have a family coverage plan through my employer and a for-profit insurance company. My employer and I both pay significant monthly fees just to subscribe to the coverage.

My son was recently hospitalized and received inpatient treatment at a facility that was "out of network" for my insurer.

The result is, my son is much better, but I'm stuck with the $30,000 bill.

My "insurer" wouldn't pick up any of it. I filed claims and appealed their rejections twice, but I haven't gotten a cent of reimbursement for this treatment.

Oh yeah! I have "insurance." But I can't get "health care."

[AllyCat]

71. Count me as another nurse that feels we need nationalized health care

And I've just posted another thread asking if ANYONE can explain to me how Clinton's plan to provide a tax credit to the poor to buy health insurance is fair. And she wants to REQUIRE that one has insurance. So if you don't forego food and rent for that month, you'll potentially not be able to keep a job without having proof of insurance.

[JDPriestly]

114. She is essentially borrowing Bush's plan. She is Republican lite.

Hillary is a loser. Don't vote for her. Nothing will change.

[AllyCat]

142. I won't vote for her. Frankly, with the exception of a few social issues

like abortion, I don't see any difference between her and *

I was appalled at her plan that she unveiled for healthcare today. To me, anything less than universal coverage, single payer is a waste of time and money. For-profit healthcare needs to go the way of the dodo bird if we are to see any relief here.

[KT2000]

80. Sickness is immoral

Take a look at this essay by Malcolm Gladwell and you will see the rationalization for this failed health care system. At its root is the mental illness of the RW and it says that sickness is immoral and weak. The system is built with penalties.
These people hate people and they are incapable of constructing anything that says otherwise.

http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_08_29_a_hazard.html

I know about the experience you are going through and you have my sympathy. It is just plain cruel. At the end of the day, they just want all of your mother's assets.

[ramapo]

84. People don't demand it

Simple as that.

The corporate and political powers in control have the people so incredibly cowed, confused, and fragmented that there is insufficient pressure on our legislators to resolve the situation.

The people in health care are getting screwed just like the rest of us. Ask your family doctor. Ours is barely surviving. Ask the doctor who doesn't get paid for a year.

Just look at the outcry yesterday about HillaryCare V2 (how I hate that, I'm sorry I typed it). I'm not thrilled with her ideas. I think they are far from a solution but something needs to be done.

Insurance goes higher every year and it covers less and less.

I believe the solution is simple. Universal, single-payer health care. Just work out the details.

Lots of people are unhappy about the situation but that's about where it stops.

[Enthusiast]

99. ramapo, you have it right.

"The corporate and political powers in control have the people so incredibly cowed, confused, and fragmented that there is insufficient pressure on our legislators to resolve the situation."

Evaluate the media for just a moment and the problem is clear. The media will mention no crticism of the insurance industry. One would think the insurance industry was necessary for healthcare. Lets get one thing straight, the insurance industry is an impediment to healthcare.

Just as CNN and the other media outlets have twisted this General Betrayus thing they are similarly twisting issue surrounding healthcare.

[ProudDad]

133. Yep, it should have been typed "hillaryCare 2.0" (n/t)

[LSK]

96. You just gave away the plot to Sicko

[trashcanistanista]

104. Speaking of Sicko,

I can't emphasize enough the importance of everyone in this country seeing this movie (without giving away the plot). Sicko may be the single most relevant movie of the past ten years.

[Perry Mason]

101. Kucinich is the ONLY Dem candidate addressing this

All of the other candidates are merely talking about "insuring" everyone through the existing system. Yeah, that's gonna work...

[trashcanistanista]

102. I work in healthcare and have travelled

through the healthcare nightmare with both parents. I have had almost identical experiences. In contrast, I recently took my cat in to the local vet clinic for bronchitus. Although she is not covered by insurance, the cost for check up was $34 and for antibiotics, $12. Bronchodialators for two weeks were $10. This is less than the copay I pay on my insurance being fully covered. My cat was examined, treated, I got a phone call from the vet two days later asking how the cat was and the vet told me she wanted to see the cat again in 4 days to assess her condition. I brought the cat back today and she was re-examined and shown to have major improvement. I got advice on her medications and left the vets office with a promise for follow up in one month, an additional script for antibiotics ($12) and a bill which I paid for $46. When my mom left the hospital after quintuple bipass and heart valve replacement she never got one follow up call from her cardiac surgeon. She went to a nursing home and was shuttled back and forth to the hospital for emergencies. Emergencies included malnutrition and dehydration from not eating properly or not taking her meds while in the home.

Yes, it has come to this and I completely blame the insurance companies for all of it. There is also corruption in healthcare in the hospital level that reflects coverups you mention that I have personally witnessed. Any nurse, doctor, lab tech, radiology tech will tell you nowadays you are working on such a low staffing level that it is a danger to your patients. If you can't cut the workload or pressure you get out. Many do and it is getting more and more difficult to replace skilled and competent hospital workers.

In California the California Nurses Association stand against any insurance company based health plan. We have a bill in our Senate SB840 that has been vetoed twice by Schwarzenegger for Single Payer Universal Health Care. The CNA will not get behind any other plan and has decided that it is better to get a new governor than to pass a bad plan. I strongly agree. The rest of the country needs to get on board with this. Politicians need to end their love affair with insurance companies.

[Vinca]

120. I told my husband to set aside $35 so if I get really sick he can

take me to the vets to be put down. Kidding, of course, but the treatment we get from the vet is really excellent . . . and affordable. This thread could be made into "Sicko, Part 2." I haven't got insurance and couldn't afford treatment anyway, so I don't have war stories except for my home treatment for pancreatitis caused by a gallbladder attack. (Later confirmed by an astonished gastroenterologist.) Now I'm in need of a copy of "Orthopedic Surgery For Dummies" to take care of a sports injury. It's got to get better.

[trashcanistanista]

103. sorry dupe n/t

[ChickMagic]

106. When I went home after 2 months in hospital

for a perforated ulcer, my doctor did not want me to go home. He was fit to be tied. He said, "Well, they said it would be cheaper to have home nursing." I later found out that it wouldn't be cheaper for me, but for the insurance company. I had met my out of pocket expense so insurance would have to pay 100% of my hospital bill past a certain time. No such luck with home nursing. I would have had a moderate bill from the hospital had I stayed, but I owed several thousand to the home nursing people. The nurse was great and it was nice to be home, but it was disgusting anyway. Insurance didn't cover expensive supplies including my TPN and the company that provided the supplies. The TPN (Trans Parenteral Nutrition) cost a little over 1K per bag and each shipment included 10 (if I remember correctly). That doesn't include the monumental blood chemistries to determine how they needed to mix the TPN. Sucks for me.

[FREEWILL56]

140. Ouch.

I know what it's like as an ulcer patient myself that was given tpn. Lucky for me the hospital I went to was sympathetic to those not insured that can't afford and it was given to me free as well as the rest of my care in the hospital for a month. It was recently taken over by another hospital system so I don't know what will be in the future regarding such a policy towards those without insurance and money from that hospital.

[ChickMagic]

160. You got lucky, it sounds like

Did the TPN make you nauseated? It did me. Derby had to hook up all my lines - I had zero energy to do that. They gave me a backpack to put the TPN bag in and the motor went "whirr, whirr" pretty loudly. A friend of mine wanted me to come see her in a play. I'm so sure she would have appreciated hearing that motor during the play. :)

[FREEWILL56]

161. I was too messed up to notice what the tpn did to me.

I was having sleep difficulties due to the pain and other discomforts. Mine didn't have a motor on it as it was just a constant drip in an iv until the next bag.

[Cleita]

127. Yay, to Armstead.

Yet, Medicare with supplementals will actually get you health care even if it's mediocre. Think of the poor gobs who have been booted from their insurance plans and HMOs because they needed health care and were declared a risk, kicked to the curb so to speak.

Yes, the Republicans have shot a lot of holes into Medicare program but the system is still there for any brave politician to go in and repair what's corrupted and add what's needed and then extend full coverage to every living person in this country. It can be done for less than what we spend per capita for health care today.

[silverojo]

147. You need to know about hospice care

It's usually administered at home, and it's FULLY COVERED by Medicare. My aunt had hospice care until the day she passed away, right here at home with our family. She never had to pay a cent, got better care than she did in the hospitals, and even all her medications were completely covered.

If your mother is being hospitalized that often, she could very likely qualify for hospice care. Ask her doctor about it...it's a godsend. Your mom would NOT need to go to a nursing home; when hospice can't provide necessary care at the patient's home, they have their own facilities that are like apartments, where family can stay with the patient at all hours.

Look on the internet for hospice providers in your area, and then talk to your mother's doctor about it. Hospice care brought us so much peace during such a difficult time.

Good luck, and may God bless her and all your family.



P.S. -- I agree with you completely about the health care system being a total wreck. I just hope my advice will help your mother avoid the hospital runaround and a nursing home.

[Totally Committed]

152. Two really good blogs on the subject:

The Healthcare Debate Advances

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/health_care_debate_advances

Stop Blaming The Baby Boomers
Deal with long-term budget problems by fixing our health care system, not by gutting Social Security and Medicare.

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/stop_blaming_baby_boomers_deficits?tx=3



TC

[youthere]

155. WELL PUT!

[McCamy Taylor]

159. No payment for "hospital acquired illness" will make it worse.

If you come in for surgery and get an expected, routine complication of surgery (there will always be bladder infections and blood clots and heart attacks even after perfectly handled surgeries) Medicare is going to deny payment. That means that hospitals are going to be under pressure to farm out SAS (sick as shit) people to rehab centers for treatment of problems that should really be treated in the hospital. Or, they will make people go home and come back in later for follow up cardiac cathe, stuff like that, so that they get paid. If it isn't on your diagnosis sheet when you come in, you will not get treated for it, even if they discover it during your hospital stay. Just wait until they find someone's brain cancer and Medicare says "That was hospital acquired!"