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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 04:59 PM
Original message
Kucinich's exclusion from the AARP debate and what it shows about his campaign
Edited on Wed Sep-19-07 05:02 PM by rinsd
Dennis Kucinich sent out a huffy email about not being included in the debates that trekked tin foil BS.

From his own website and from one of his own supporters this was posted.

http://action.dennis4president.com/forum/posts/id_1232/

POSTED BY: cprice404 on 09/17/2007 11:48:13 < QUOTE >


As soon as I got the e-mail mentioning that Dennis had not been invited to participate in the AARP debate on Thursday, I started trying to contact the Iowa AARP to register my grievance.

I received a prompt reply from them and have had a bit more correspondence via e-mail since then. They have a very detailed account of their position, which is that they invited Rep. Kucinich to participate and detailed the steps he'd need to take to make him eligible, and that they hadn't received any response from the campaign until the article was published recently claiming that he was intentionally excluded. Given the lack of direction and assistance I've been able to get from the national campaign while trying to organize a local group and some events in support of Dennis, I can't say that I have any reason to believe that their version of events isn't accurate. I hope someone on this forum can convince me otherwise, but as of right now my perception is that the campaign failed to take the necessary steps to get Dennis included in the forum and then cried "foul" once they realized it was too late.

I have been an avid Kucinich supporter since '04 so I really hope I'm wrong, but right now I'm feeling pretty deflated. I'll paste the AARP correspondence below in case anyone wants to read it.

meantime,



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Chris,



Thank you for your inquiry regarding the participation of Dennis

Kucinich in the AARP/IPTV Forum that will be held on September 20 at the

Adler Theater in Davenport, Iowa.



On July 2, 2007, Rep. Kucinich's campaign was sent a registered letter

inviting him to participate in the event. The letter was accompanied by

criteria that were set by AARP and IPTV for participation in the forum.

Criteria include:



* Have filed an FEC Form F-2, "Statement of Candidacy," with the Federal

Election Commission;



* Have publicly announced an intention to run for the nomination of the

Republican or the Democratic Party for President of the United States;



* Have a Campaign Office inside the State of Iowa; and,



* Have employed at least one paid campaign staff representative to

perform full-time campaign duties in the State of Iowa on behalf of the

candidate since at least August 1, 2007.



During the weeks following his campaign's receipt of the letter of

invitation, Rep. Kucinich's office had no communication with AARP or

IPTV. The campaign did not acknowledge receipt of our invitation, nor

did he or any of his campaign staff indicate any interest in

participating in this forum. We did not hear from anyone about the forum

until a story appeared in the Quad-City Times stating incorrectly, that

Rep. Kucinich had not been invited to participate.



Rep. Kucinich did not meet all four of the stated criteria that would

enable him participate in the upcoming forum by the designated date.







Ann Black

AARP Iowa Communications


Looks like yet another campaign fuck up from a campaign that can't raise money on the internet where the campaign has excellent support and put their 2008 campaign website up (before they used the 2004 one) in July, 7 months after he declared.

How in the world can you not have a single staffer working IA?

Look at the comments of deflated Kucinich supporters who get no answers from the campaign.

Who is running the Kucinich campaign?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well lets see what the self righteous have to say about this one.
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radiclib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Self-righteous?
Oh dear!:blush:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. That would be you.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. And how would that be?
Care to explain?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Sure, I'll explain.
You come across just as self righteous at times as anyone else here.I do too, I'm sure, and to act otherwise is kind of dumb, not to mention a little self righteous.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Well thanks for coming after me and ignoring the original OP.
I am sure that was just a oversight on your part though.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Like you told someone yesterday...
"The truth hurts."
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yes it does.
And where is it not truthful that you came after me and ignored the original OP?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. It is truthful.I did come after you and wont even begin to deny it.
Your turn;

Where is what I said not truthful? And where did you say anything that actually related to the OP in the post of yours that I first responded to? It was a shot at others and had zippo to do with the actual OP itself, and you know it.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I know you did, and I knew you wouldn't deny it.
I just wanted it mentioned, thats all. What I know is it was a shot at the candidate the OP was about and his supporters.
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. The AARP is under total control of the insurance industry.
They are afraid of Kucinich.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No its seems. The Kucinich campaign has dropped the ball...again.
They didn't even respond to the AARP's letter.

Shit Dennis himself was probably unaware that he wasn't going to appear because his campaign is such a cluster fuck.
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ArtistFromMars Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. You Got It Right Skink! The Rest Of Us Can Eat Crow
Sponsor of Presidential Health Care Forum Has a $4 Billion Conflict of Interest: Kucinich
Posted : Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:00:31 GMT
Author : Kucinich for President 2008
Category : PressRelease

WASHINGTON, Sept. 19 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- "The sponsor of tomorrow night's Presidential forum in Iowa focused on health care reform has "a $4 billion vested interest in preserving the role of private, for-profit insurance companies in the health care industry," Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said today.

According to published reports, the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) "will net AARP $4.4 billion over seven years from the insurance giants United Healthcare and Aetna" with whom the organization signed agreements earlier this year. Under the AARP brand name, the organization will promote Aetna insurance policies to its members between the ages of 50 and 64 and United Healthcare policies for Medicare-eligible members.

Kucinich, the only Democratic candidate proposing a national, not-for-profit health insurance plan that would eliminate for-profit insurers from the health care system (HR 676), was specifically excluded from tomorrow's forum by AARP.

"It's clear that they didn't want me upsetting their multi-billion dollar applecart," Kucinich said. "The health care plans of the invited candidates preserve and promote the interests of for-profit insurance and pharmaceutical companies at the expense of tens of millions of everyday Americans who either can't afford coverage or are being over-charged for the inadequate coverage they struggle to afford."

Kucinich said AARP's sponsorship of the Presidential forum "is like having Haliburton or Blackwater sponsor a Presidential forum on doing away with no-bid government contracts to private contractors; or an oil company sponsoring a forum on reducing the world's dependence on oil."

Kucinich emphasized that he was not taking issue with the 38 million members of AARP. "Millions of trusting AARP members have bought Medicare-supplemental and prescription drug insurance plans from AARP, believing that they were getting a good deal. The 'AARP name' was like the 'Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.' It turns out, however, that AARP is taking a $4 billion cut by steering its members to profiteering private insurance companies trying to capitalize on fear and confusion."

His plan, he explained, "would cover every American, with no premiums, no deductibles, and no co-payments. No one would be denied coverage or services."

"The fact that Senators Clinton, Obama, and former Senator Edwards are pushing plans to keep the for-profit private insurers in business and in control may explain why they are willing to participate in this fake and tainted debate," Kucinich said.

He also questioned the decision by Iowa Public Television to televise the Presidential forum and simulcast it to other PBS stations in other states. "Profit-driven and politics-driven media conglomerates are controlling what we see on TV and what we hear on the radio. Public broadcasting should represent a higher, more ethical standard," he said. "In this case, public broadcasting will shamefully promote private interests."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,181765.shtml

Link below is an extra source link for this information:

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/09/kucinich_blasts_aarp_and_publi.html

VoteKUCINICH2008!
NOT-For-PROFIT Healthcare NOW!
http://www.dennis4president.com/home

:-)
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Good work, ArtistFromMars!
That seems like the real story to me.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. "was specifically excluded from tomorrow's forum by AARP"
No, as the OP says he wasn't. His campaign fucked up and now he is trying to spin it.

I am a Kucinich supporter but shit like this really gets to me.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. So, this guy can't run a campaign, but...
some people think he can run the country?
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Exactly!
However, some will go looking for conspiracies instead of acknowledging the campaign's incompetence.

If Dennis is as honest as his supporters say he is, why can't he be a stand up guy and admit he screwed up?
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Seems like a good boycott to me.
Let all the seniors that care about medicare figure out that nobody but Dennis is offering real universal healthcare.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Then why didn't he come out and say boycott?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Slick Professionals are with the otehr candidates
The professionbal cadre of "professional" political operatives know where their bread is buttered. They want to be on the conventional campaigns.

So the Kucinich campaign apparantely did screw up. But it's nothing that a few talented campaign organizers with principles could fix, if they could look beyond their own resumes.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. So it's the same reason he didn't go to the steak fry: no campaign office in Iowa
Apparently, he can't afford one.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. But he can afford a trip to Syria?
:shrug:
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm glad you went to the AARP to get their position
I'm not a Kucinich fan, but to have any chance he'd need to break out in one of the early states. IA has a well organized peace community so I'm not sure why he's not trying to organize there and pick up from his 2004 base. I know he has an office in NH. Why he's skipping IA I don't know. Plenty of free local press there and easier to target since you are looking to get delegate elected rather than raw votes.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. How about he doesn't have the fucking money
he hasn't sold his soul to the corporations like the "top tier" have...
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Wow. Quite a testy exchange. I was going to suggest they all sit down to
cookies and milk and talk things over, but frankly I don't think cookies and milk is going to do it for this one.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Insofar as the Harkin steak fry is concerned...
a private fund-raising event...Dennis could have been smart enough to send them a $30 check for a ticket.

This super leader doesn't seem to have the sense to come in out of the rain. Sheesh...what a leader.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Not sure the mechanics behind the logistics once they dropped Ethel and
Habib off at the Tupperware gig, but I would love to see the Kucinich campaign hire some really inventive and creative people to get the candidate's profile out better.

Kucinich is blessed with an eye for the workings of things. But he doesn't rely on it as much as I'd like to see. But can't say if it's his own call or his advisors' will power at work.

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penguin7 Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why didn't they follow up on the letter?
They never bothered to call the Kucinich campaign about this letter? This letter if it was actually sent was just a gotcha. Anyone that has worked in busy offices knows damn well what can happen with letters. And an office with volunteers?

Well holding this against Kucinich is just plain dishonest. We all know that the campaign is underfunded.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Then it's equally a foul for the Kucinich campaign to be complaining
That's not a position of strength.

So why would they need to babysit the candidate and follow up on the letter.

I assume they would send it to someone pretty high up in the campaign. All the other candidates got the message. Why not Dennis?

I don't need a weeny whiner for a president.
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penguin7 Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It is obvious that the campaign's
response was not to this letter. This letter was a gotcha as best I can tell.

"Congressman Kucinich, (D-OH), was not invited to Sunday's Democratic Steak Fry in Indianola, nor to a Democratic Presidential Forum Thursday in Davenport. Representatives of both events have falsely claimed that Kucinich does not have a sufficiently "active organization" in Iowa."

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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Whats obvious is Kucinich does not want to be President. NT
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slick8790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
47. so, for the record...
you're saying the AARP and tom harkin steak fry are wrong when they claim kucinich has not one office or paid staffer in Iowa? not having one office or staffer in the FIRST PRIMARY STATE is pretty much what i consider insufficiently active organization.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. According to the email posted from AARP Iowa they sent a
registered letter meaning someone should have signed for it. Please call and email his office and ask that they release further details, thanks.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. I view this as a good test of how upfront and honest Kucinich is...
Edited on Thu Sep-20-07 05:36 AM by cobalt1999
If he stands up and says "look we screwed up" or even "both my campaign and the AARP have some fault", then I might actually start believing he isn't just another typical politician.

If he spins this or doesn't tell the whole truth, then he's running for his ego like I suspect.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. It was a registered letter
Someone had to sign for it...just sayin...
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penguin7 Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Also Kucinich has an office in Dubuque and full time paid staff
in Iowa which would fulfill the requirements of the letter.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Funny how Kucinich doesn't mention that in his press release
Edited on Thu Sep-20-07 08:22 AM by Freddie Stubbs
I wonder why?
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. Where did you find that information at?
I could find nothing at Kucinich's website regarding an Iowa office.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kucinich's campaign should respond to this by providing the timely reply they surely sent to AARP
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. I called his campaign headquarters and followed up with an
email which I posted in the below link. We do not know what happened and I hope that other Kucinich supporters will also contact his office.

Similarly, I also hope that other people are calling their other candidates and asking them why they are not speaking out on the administration's constant beating of war drums and efforts to privatize the Iraq oil via the draft hydrocarbon law.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1843959&mesg_id=1849767
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patrioticintellect Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. Response from a "Self-Righteous" Man
He made a mistake. A BIG MISTAKE. Seriously. And I don't know he'll recover without coming out and telling supporters and most importantly, Americans, why he is playing games with the already rigged system that had media blacking him out and marginalizing him. I mean, he's also been a non-issue for candidates. That means what he says or criticizes them on, candidates can ignore him and just let it go. They don't have to worry.

Well, Dennis, you need to worry. Supporters like me are fundraising because we think you are serious. We like your message, your platform, your stances, your record, etc. which surpass all other candidates. However, you need to read a book on campaigning. Mike Klein and you need to seriously hold a couple study group nights. That way you can start to play this politically well and not make any more tactical errors this election.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
32. When Mike Gravel forgot to register for one of the debates, no one complained
If you don't register, you can't participate.
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
40. Let's parse this...
Edited on Thu Sep-20-07 02:55 PM by Aya Reiko
Obviously he filed the forms and announced his candidacy...

But not a single office and/or staffer in Iowa? WTF Kuch?!? This guy is not remotely interested in running.

This campaign is not for ego. It's partly the reason, but not the main reason. No, he's doing this to go on vacations on somebody else's dime and have it all legal under the pretenses of campaigning. But look where he's been; Hawaii, Cali, Florida. And look where he is not; Iowa. This is not an itinerary for a candidate, this is an itinerary for someone on vacation with too much money to spend.

Integrity? Bullshit. I'll even bet that he is not at all sincere on most the things he claims to support. He only says it because he knows the hard left will eat it up like it was good sugar.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Interesting take.
And I wouldn't be a bit surprised. The most "righteous" are usually the ones with something to hide.
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patrioticintellect Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Thank you for doing what the Republicans enjoy doing
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 04:59 PM by patrioticintellect
Smearing people.

If you have proof, evidence, or anything to support your remarks, please come forward with it. Otherwise, you are bloviating like O'Reilly enjoys to bloviate.
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-20-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
44. It looks like he gave up on Iowa early
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patrioticintellect Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Consider this
Edited on Fri Sep-21-07 05:01 PM by patrioticintellect
Why get involved in a five-way fight for one state? Why not ignore it and move all over the country while those candidates are focused on one state that only one of them can win? And why waste money when it is plain to see the system is stacked against you in that state?
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I've considered that esp. with all the states that have moved
up their primary and caucus dates, see link below for dates and a comparison to 2004.

Presidential primary and caucus dates
http://archive.stateline.org/flash-data/Primary/2008_presidential_primaries.pdf
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slick8790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Because a sufficient showing in Iowa could skyrocket his campaign?
:shrug:

California, florida, hawaii, however....they're the one's that are gonna put the kucinich campaign on the map...right.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-21-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
50. My reply...
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