Any objective analysis of the race says Hillary is kicking ass and taking names

[Herman Munster]

She's in a much stronger position than she was 9 months ago and she was in a pretty strong position to begin with then.

Her biggest problems electability and polarization have been effectively neutralized. Democrats think she is their most electable candidate in recent polls. She is also beating republicans in numerous polls and leading republican candidates in red states such as Virginia and Arkansas among others like Ohio and Florida.

She's leading her democratic challengers by 20% or more in many polls. She's leading in almost all of the primary states by significant margins. In her weakest state Iowa, she has risen from 4th place in Iowa to first place in some polls or a very close second in others. The more people see of Hillary, the more they like her.

She's effectively branded herself as the only person in the race who has the experience to make change possible. Change isn't a slogan for her. She will get results and people believe her.

She's said in January she was in it to win it and she's done everything she said she would and more.

[Occulus]

1. I. Am. Not. Impressed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1842813

[William769]

2. Is that all you have to offer?

Polls show the majority of Democrats like this plan. Stop drinking the kool-aid from some DU members and aopen your eyes.

[ThomCat]

9. The majority of people believe what spinmeisters tell them.

If she gets elected it will be because people liked her PR, not because they had a clue about her positions.

Her position on healthcare should scare the hell out of people.

[avrdream]

51. If it scares you, you aren't reading the whole thing.

Her plan is brilliant in its' simplicity: pick the PUBLIC plan and we put the private insurance companies out of business. THINK THIS THROUGH.

[tinrobot]

10. This Democrat doesn't like the plan.

Go watch "Sicko" for an education on how insurance companies are the problem, not the solution.

[peacebird]

19. William - somehow I thought Dems were allowed to have differing opinions...

"Polls show the majority of Democrats like this plan. Stop drinking the kool-aid from some DU members and aopen your eyes."

:eyes:

How condescending! Seriously.

And - as a side note - how many of you have actually been called by a pollster? I haven't....

[William769]

40. Sorry but the truth hurts.

[ralphmich3]

65. Her biggest problems: supporting Bush's war

voting for the 2002 authorizations of force

voting for the Patriot Act

NAFTA

the fund raising scandals

the Marc Rich pardons

the stupid off-hand remarks she makes

[jcrew2001]

69. I should have said all these things before my other thread got locked

She's just a triangulating fraud. I personally don't know any men who support her, but I'm sure they are Out there.

[William769]

3. Not only have they been neutralized, they are now non existent. NT

[FrenchieCat]

4. NO ass kicking can be said to have occurred until votes are cast and

then counted.

She's certainly dominating the national polls and many state by state polls, but I would greatly question whether that qualifies as an "ass kicking".....considering the vote is not till next year!

That's my "objective" analysis. :shrug:

[ChiciB1]

5. Time To Head For The Border!! I Am Supporting Someone Else...

but all this horse-shit is really making me want to puke!!!

If MSM doesn't stop pumping this over and over and over, I wonder WHAT is going to happen. I see this all the time here, long lists of names of INFLUENTIAL people who are supposedly walking in lock-step behind Hillary! It sure makes me SUSPICIOUS!!

Never thought I would feel this way about this election, but it looks like another one "BOUGHT & SOLD" if all this stuff is true!!

I don't know anymore what can be said, but this far out and the "deal is done"! This IS NOT America!!!

[jcrew2001]

13. I think the MSM just want the "story" of a female president

and don't really care much about whether she can win the general election, or whether she has any good policies. Its all about selling newspapers and ratings, and nothing would be better than the most controversial female politician of all time.

I think JEB is hoping she wins in 2008, cuz by 2012 the country will hate her and we'll be duped into electing another Bush.

[Cha]

37. Do ya think then the American politic

will say..HUH? bush, clinton, bush, clinton..oh no..stay out the bushes.

This is already some ol' shit.

[jcrew2001]

63. In this 2 party system, the party winners will be those individuals

with the most clout to sway primary voters and local officials. If JEB ran in the GOP primary in 2012, he would be impossible to beat in the primary. There is still a lot of love for GWB in the GOP, so the Bush name is not a weakness. Plus, JEB has a strong record of his own, separate from GWB. So, he can very much claim to be his own man.

If JEB faced off against Hillary in 2012, he could win if Hillary's popularity drops below 45%. There would be enough support against Hillary, that JEB would be the only alternative, sadly.

[Clintonista2]

6. Right now I'm more concerned about who she will pick for VP than whether she will win

That's the point that I'm at. She's unstoppable.

[jcrew2001]

16. will the general election stop her - i think so

but her VP will be Bayh, i'm 95% certain, he's got the resume, not much personality, he's al gore II.

[FrenchieCat]

18. "not much personality, he's al gore II"?

I'm sure that we all appreciate your opinion on Al Gore! Although we didn't ask, thank you for that! :sarcasm:

[calteacherguy]

28. I do believe who she choses as VP could affect the outcome of the race this time.

I think the VP choice will be more important than usual, for a number of reasons. It's going to have to be someone ready to take over in a crisis situation. Her choice of VP is going to be the first test of her national security credentials.

[jcrew2001]

68. What crisis situation

are you implying that she would be incapacitated at some point? Most VP's are for window dressing, but if anyone expects the VP to take over in a crisis situation, then they shouldn't be voting for her to be president, if they think she'll fold under pressure. If they need the VP for national security advice, then that really shows doubts about the competence of the President.

The VP cannot overshadow the president in public. The VP needs to be someone stable, experienced, somewhat boring, as to not overshadow the president in any way ever.

[tkmorris]

7. It's still 10 minutes til post time my friend

The race doesn't start until the horses leave the gate, all you are doing is watching the odds on the tote board. Her health insurance plan is not going to help her I don't think. We shall see.

[emilyg]

8. Proud #5

[William769]

14. I was #1, just like our gal.

:hi:

[Lerkfish]

11. polls. electability. only reasonable people agree.

lather, rinse, repeat.

[jcrew2001]

12. She's had a lot of successful results as a Senator the last 8 years!!!

I mean, if the next 4 years will be as successful as her last 8 years, then the record speaks for itself. She will be just as accomplished then as she is now. She's running on a record of success that her peers can only wish to match.

If only the polls counted towards the primaries, then this thing is already wrapped up.

[illinoisprogressive]

15. so was howard dean at this time 4 years ago.

[jcrew2001]

17. ahh, but people aren't pre-conditioned to vote

for anyone but clintons, they just can't tell them apart.

[Alamom]

25. Not really, but a very interesting supposition

Excellent recap of polling for that period of time.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm



Quinnipiac University Poll. Dec. 4-8, 2003. Democratic voters nationwide.

.

"Suppose New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton decides to run for president in 2004. Who would you most like to see the Democrats nominate for president in 2004? . . ."

...................12/4-8.........10/23-27.......... 9/11-15.......... 7/17-22..........6/4-9

Hillary Clinton....43.............. 43..................45...............48...............40

Howard Dean.....14...............7....................9...............4................3
Wesley Clark.......9...............10.................. n/a
Joe Lieberman.....7................8....................6..............11................16
Dick Gephardt.....5................8....................6...............7................10
John Kerry..........5................7....................8...............7.................8
John Edwards......3................5....................4...............3.................2
AlSharpton .........3................1....................1...............1.................1
Carol Moseley Braun 1.............1....................3...............2.................1
Dennis Kucinich....1................1....................2...............2.................1
Don't know........10................10..................14.............12................12






editlines

[mark414]

44. okay, how about something more recent?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3533606#3534264

[superkia]

20. When she talks of experience it doesnt mean that she is right.

"She's effectively branded herself as the only person in the race who has the experience to make change possible. Change isn't a slogan for her. She will get results and people believe her."


This would be from her in a 2002 speech before her vote for war :

And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation.


In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

As you see, her experience helped her make a decision that has killed many innocent people and she continued to fund that war. So if she has all this experience, she just shows she is a bad person at making good decisions. Well for the people, Im sure she makes great decisions for the wealthy and corporations.

And people continue to believe her.

[mark414]

45. just look at how much experience the Bush Administration has...

half of the original gang has been getting experience since the 60's!

[fenriswolf]

21. GODFORBID

'nough said

[calteacherguy]

22. Baring some catastrophic event, she will be the nominee. She's our best hope for real change. nt

[Critters2]

27. What?

She's the very incarnation of the establishment!! The DLC is NOT a catalyst for change!!

[calteacherguy]

34. Real change means getting a Democrat in the White House along with a Democratic Congress.

She's our best and strongest candidate to achieve change.

[fenriswolf]

38. hmmm lets see

what happened when we had a repub pres, a repub congress....oh yeah total catastrophy, now the somewhat dem controlled congress isnt doing all that it can nor is the senate and with a republite/wolf in sheeps clothing with majority of dem congress come jan I can only shudder at what will be the worst 8 years X 2

[PurityOfEssence]

48. Change?! She might be our best hope for spare change, but not progress.

Remember: 2/3rds of the U.S. GNP is consumer spending. If she has her way and continues with outsourcing and trade giveaways, there will be no decent middle-class jobs left and it'll just continue us down the path to insolvency.

[Carrieyazel]

60. Didn't they say the same thing about Dean, Gephardt, Bayh and Muskie?

And Mario Cuomo, if he had decided to run in 1992?

How many of those were the nominee? And she is not our best hope for real change. We need someone new, who doesn't have her level of baggage and high negatives. And she is running an oddly lackluster, devoid of passion, front-running campaign. How many of those types of campaigns have gotten us in to the White House. She cannot and will not win the general election.

[zulchzulu]

67. Quarters, nickels or pennies? That's the only change I see with that...

Do I have to drag out my bad 90's music too?

:rofl:

[ginchinchili]

23. Problem is, she can't win in the general election

It should come as no surprise that Hillary is doing well in the Democratic primary. But the 60% or so of Democrats who support her now can't get her elected in the general election. It's unfortunate, but true. There's a lot of animosity toward her, and it's visceral.

[Sparkly]

24. I thought polls had been showing otherwise.

What are the latest ones showing, Clinton-supporters?

[calteacherguy]

26. That's just not true. As someone once said, "repeating a lie does not make it the truth."

Her favorability ratings have been increasing steadily to the point where they are equal to the other candidates, and her experience gives her the best chance of winning. I feel sorry for whoever her Republican opponent will be, because they're gonna be toast!

[Carrieyazel]

61. Yes, Hillary cannot win the general, but 60% of Democrats DO NOT support her in the primary

Her support is now at 35-40% of potential Democratic primary/caucus voters. Not near a majority of even Democrats. That's what is keeping Hillaryland awake at night.

[mark414]

29. just like John Kerry was our most electable candidate in 2004?

if i recall...Howard Dean was kicking ass and taking names for awhile too...

she'll get results alright...in speeding up the new gilded age

[calteacherguy]

30. Hillary Clinton will not allow herself to be swiftboated (figuratively speaking).

She's a stonger candidate. Much stronger.

[mark414]

32. stronger candidate...with a 50% disapproval rating....

[calteacherguy]

33. Got a link for that? nt

[mark414]

42. a few:

http://www.examiner.com/a-892056~Hillary_Clinton_struggles_with_high_disapproval_ratings.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A03E1DE103AF934A1575AC0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3

http://www.pollingreport.com/C2.htmhttp://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/election_2008_democratic_candidates_running_in_2008_presidential_election

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/oregon_clinton_struggles_in_blue_state_against_republican_hopefuls


i would hope that for once, we don't nominate the easiest person for the Republicans to run against

if you're a fan of the status quo and politics as usual, vote Hillary! i wouldn't vote for her for sanitation commissioner...

[Alamom]

50. Try yesterday's negatives

Your links -

#1 Aug 07 re: Karl Rove's attack?
#2 from 2000
#3 bad link
#4 Oregon ?



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/the_contest_for_the_democratic_nomination


The Contest For the Democratic Nomination
By Douglas Schoen
Wednesday, September 19, 2007


Her favorable rating is 81% among Democrats and her negative rating is only 17%. With rating this high it is hard to see how she will be denied the nomination. Her favorability rating exceeds former Senator John Edwards by 11% and Senator Obama by 19%.

Beyond her favoranle rating, Senator Clinton is also seen as the most liberal candidate in the field. In a race where close to half the primary electorate are ideological or operational liberals, this is extremely good news for the New York Senator.

She is also seen as the most electable candidate among Democrats. This rebuts one of the top reasons cited by her detractors for her presumed difficulty in winning the election.

The Real Clear Politics averages confirm the Rasmussen findings. Senator Clinton holds a 19% lead in the RCP national numbers and leads in each of the first major primary states by wide margins in New Hampshire (18%), South Carolina (12%) and Florida (22%) and a narrow margin in first in the nation Iowa (3%).

Rasmussen Reports polling also shows Clinton leading in New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Florida.

[avrdream]

52. Nice smackdown, Alamom!

Desperate times call for desperate measures for those who won't vote for Hillary no matter what we say. Sometimes I just laugh out loud all alone in my study with my computer: there is absolutely no rationalizing with the people who say they won't vote for Hill no matter what. Why we keep trying is beyond me..........it's like hitting our heads against the wall over and over again and not getting anything but a bloody forehead.

But I appreciate your effort.

[mark414]

57. then we are all in trouble

[William769]

53. self delete.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

55. Very easy to say that when it hasn't started yet....n/m

[youthere]

31. Yep..In fact Dean and Gephart were polling way ahead...

right up until the IA caucus, and were soundly beaten by Kerry and Edwards.

[Cha]

35. Is that why she thinks she can

get away with telling us her grand scheme of a health insurance scam?

"On her health care plan, Clinton said she planned to enforce the mandate to purchase health care through tax credits and other incentives.

"At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," she said. But she said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1842813

Call me singulary unimpressed.

[MLFerrell]

36. Keep deluding yourself there, person.

"Sen. Clinton says she "can envision a day when you have to show proof of insurance to work"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1842813

On her health care plan, Clinton said she planned to enforce the mandate to purchase health care through tax credits and other incentives.

"At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," she said. But she said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_el_pr/clinton...




Yeah, she's doing just SPECTACULAR! Spectacularly idiotic, that is.

Do you really think that this shit is going to fly with Joe Sixpack and Sally Housecoat? And yes, they WILL find out.

Your candidate just fucked up so bad that she might as well quit now. Because I guarantee you that her opponents aren't going to let this egregious error just slide... And all the triangulation and "damage control" in the goddamned world isn't going to erase the fact that HRC is utterly beholden to Insurance interests, and has just informed the entire world of the fact. She's fucked, and you Hill shills know it, or at least you should.

Have a cheery day (or at least what's left of it)!

[BeyondGeography]

39. More hairy chest thumping rhetoric from the Hillbots

"Hillary is kicking ass,"...that seems to be a favorite. Oooh, she's a woman AND she kicks ass! And now she's taking names, too? You and yours continue to overdose on macho talk when it comes to your girl. What's that all about?

[William769]

41. So wheres your proof she is not kicking ass.

We would all like to see it.

[mark414]

43. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3533606&mesg_id=3534264

[William769]

54. If thats your proof, I'll be sleeping very well tonight.

[PurityOfEssence]

46. Gosh, isn't ruthlessness cool?

Does she draw blood when she kicks ass? That would be really cool. If she could break pelvises and cause endless cases of internal hemorrhaging that'd be better than a major sporting event. How about those names? I wonder what she's going to do with them. (I'm sure she's "got a little list".)

Weaklings worship raw power; strong people may find it intriguing and interesting to watch, but they don't get the really giddy thrill that the average Caspar Milquetoast gets from watching a gangster movie.

I'm impressed.

Yes, she's good at maneuvering. That, coupled with her personality should garner her a lead role with the Ice Capades, but it's not such a great testimony to character, and it doesn't guarantee her winning.

What Democrats think about her electability doesn't mean spit; what matters is what the general population thinks. Sure, it'd be another step forward to have the nominee be a woman, but it's not a victory if she can't win the general election, and the numbers on that still look grim.

Her campaign is appealing to many of the truly embarrassing facets of human character, and it's getting less and less watchable.

[Steve_in_California]

47. BIDEN . . . BIDEN . . . BIDEN . . . BIDEN . . .

Joe Biden is the most qualified, hands down. His election won't be by a narrow margin. He will win with a mandate. 80% of registered Democrats haven't chosen a candidate. CBS has Biden polling among Democrats at 9% and among voters nationwide at 12%. His numbers have quadrupled in only 3 weeks.

[ginchinchili]

66. That's excellent news! Thanks Steve_in_California

I think one by one people are coming to the same conclusion that we've come to. Biden is the smart choice. He will make a great president. It is his time.

[OneBlueSky]

49. sorry, but I can't stomach Hillary Clinton . . .

it's just this visceral reaction I have to authoritarian corporatists who will make no meaningful changes to the way things are currently being done in Washington . . . if you like BushCo, you'll love HillBillCo . . .

[fightindonkey]

56. The Fact Of The Matter Is, I've Been Saying This For Months

People like Hillary the more they hear and see her speak. The Clintons are masters at one on one. What she now needs to say to the public is that she will get the best to work in her administration to deal with al Qaeda, Iraq, and global terrorism, and won't resume the "Yes Men" the Republicans want to continue putting in top positions.

She is beyond electable, and candidates don't come in pretty bows. Hillary wins because she plays the game.

People feel safer with a Clinton Administration than any one else Right or Left.

[Carrieyazel]

62. No, she's unelectable and she's demonstrated time and time again that she often blows the game.

On the two biggest issues of her public career she blew it:

1993-94: Health Care Reform: Huge Dem majorities in Congress and when she was tasked by the Prez to head the effort, she couldn't even get a bill out of committee because of her many blunders and tactical idiocy. She let the other side frame the debate and they blocked her easily.

2002-03: Iraq War: On the biggest issue of our time she voted with the neocon kooks to authorize this catastrophe, isn't sorry for it and hasn't directly admitted that she was wrong and it still haunts her now. It was cold calculation that shows her utter lack of vision.

[Carrieyazel]

58. Check the latest national polls: Not good news for Hillary at all

Hillary faltering:

Reuters/Zogby: 35%
Cook/RT Strategies: 36%
Rasmussen Daily 9/20: 38%


She is faltering back into the 30's nationally, hardly inevitable and showing significant weakness. I thought she was supposed to be closing in on 50% long before now. She can definitely be beaten. The MSM is trying to sell us on the notion that she's infallible. No she isn't.

[Milo_Bloom]

59. Not really.

Her numbers are pretty stagnant and she seems unable to comfortably break 40% in the polls.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008__1/daily_presidential_tracking_polling_history

The question will be whether the 60%+ currently against her are AGAINST her or just not yet for her.

Probably against her more than not for her yet.

[zulchzulu]

64. Bookmarking for when she drops out after Wisconsin primary n/t

[ProudDad]

70. Dateline Berlin - 1932

Any objective analysis of the race says H***** is kicking ass and taking names...

[kad7777]

71. PLEASE...really think about this

People (especially Hillary supporters):
Do you remember the eight years of sheer ridiculous, unadulterated, relentless attacks on Bill Clinton? Do you remember how embarrassing it was sometimes to be an American? Because of what our President had done, and what the Republicans were doing to besmirch his Presidency? All the money that was wasted investigating Bill Clinton, and Hillary? It was one of the biggest black eyes this country has ever seen. In a word, no matter who's fault it was (and I blame both parties), it was disgusting.

So please...think about this...carefully. The hatred for Bill Clinton was SO deep by the Republicans, they were constantly fighting him on every issue, AND they tried to remove him from office. What do think is going to happen if Hillary Clinton were elected? Can you possibly imagine the dogfights we're going to have in congress? The relentless attacks on Hillary? The republicans will fight her tooth and nail on EVERY issue. AND, you can rest assured they'll try to dig up dirt on her constantly.

So let me ask you, is this what we want for our country for the next four years? Gridlock and tabloid freak shows? I for one, DO NOT want to go through that for another four years. And aside from all the sideshow events that will take place, as a country, can we afford to deal with this kind of malarkey? The answer is - ABSOLUTELY NOT. We have Armageddon going on in the Middle East. This is serious stuff here folks. Plain and simple, we need to elect a leader that has a great deal of foreign policy experience, and has their hand on the pulse of middle America. As great as it is that we have a Woman and an African American running for the world most important position, it CANNOT be taken lightly.

Let's stop...and think about this. Really think. Let's get it right this time.

[BenDavid]

72. I know it is over a year till the general

election and I feel as though HRC will win the general and become the 44th President, and all these folks that have written vile and hate towards HRC, will most likely be one of the first in here that Tuesday night and tell everyone how they were with her all the way.

I will say one thing, if another candidate gets the nomination I will vote for that candidate because said candidate will still be more qualified then any of the right wingers....even mccain....the problem with a republican is they do not look at the entire picture of america. They have a set of values they follow and it is geared to only a set of folks whereas the democrats believe in helping everyone regardless of status.

I thank you
Ben David

[HuffleClaw]

73. yer kidding right ?

its the media that has propped her up as THE CANDIDATE. anyone getting as much press as she has been would be the frontrunner and the same republican-owned media that has been creating her legend will, just as swiftly and gleefully destroy that legend.

[silverojo]

74. If this comes to pass, prepare for another Repuke president n/t