Democrats Panic In The Heartland

[Ethelk2044]

The era of the red-state Democrat will have suffered a very short reign if Hillary Clinton wins her party's nomination next year, at least according to the fears of some members of her party.

While 2006 saw impressive Democratic wins on traditionally Republican turf, most notably Jim Webb in Virginia, John Tester in Montana, Nancy Boyda in Kansas, and Heath Shuler in North Carolina, some red-state Democrats warn that the "Hillary drag" may eviscerate their ranks in 2008.

Some are quiet about it, like the 39 Democratic state and local officials who told the Associated Press they would talk about their fears of Hillary Clinton dragging them down only if they could remain anonymous, fearing reprisals from the Clintons.

But some are louder, like Dave "Mudcat" Sanders, a consultant for John Edwards' campaign, and one of the most colorful and lively Democratic strategists in America. He puts it simply: "Edwards has coattails; Hillary has anti-coattails."

"For Hillary to go out into rural America, and tell us she's going to help us, and tell us all the wonderful things she's going to do for us, it takes gall," Sanders says. He goes on to say:
"If the Clintons had gone to the mat for universal health care the way they did for NAFTA and for crazy one-sided trade treaties, and had listened about the giant sucking sound that Ross Perot told them about, we would still have our health care and our jobs. It takes gall for her to say she's going to help us. She's got a record of killing us

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/20/opinion/main3281809.shtml

[IndyOp]

1. I don't generally like Mudcat, but I do believe Hillary has anti-coattails.

I live in a red state and this is a regular topic of concerned conversation. :-(

[Zodiak]

12. I hear the same

I hear Texans willing to vote for Edwards, though. That's encouraging because the area I'm from is ruby red to this day.

[Ninja Jordan]

2. Hillary just seems UNSTOPPABLE at this point.

We shall see, though.

[Ethelk2044]

5. Not one vote has ben casted yet.

[Ninja Jordan]

7. I know, but she is definitely the elephant in the room, so to speak.

Big money, big candidate, big machine. Obama seems to have been tapering off a bit while Edwards has surged somewhat.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

20. How do you quantify that?

"Obama seems to have been tapering off a bit while Edwards has surged somewhat."

I'll believe that Hillary is perceived as an early favorite, but I don't get how you could quantify Obama slipping/Edwards surging. Most people aren't ensconced in this whole, "Dodd's teeth seemed extra white today... is this the end for Obama?!" nonsense that the 24-hour internet news analysis cycle demands.

[superkia]

24. I dont know anyone that is voting for her? Maybe its where I live?

I cant seem to get her speech to go to war out of my head.

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

And people gave Obama hell for calling her Bush light, read it, listen to her rhetoric. Is this truly who we want leading our country, I hope we all wake up before the primaries pass and its too late once again!


http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233783

[flpoljunkie]

6. The good voters of Iowa are keeping it close, and may well refuse to go with Hillary. We will see.

[Inspired]

10. This Iowan refuses.

There is no way I'll caucus for Hillary.

[greatauntoftriplets]

14. At this time four years ago, conventional wisdom was saying the same thing about....

Howard Dean.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. President Dean Sends His Regards!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3530280&mesg_id=3530280

[silvershadow]

30. I am pretty sure she will be stopped

I am convinced that the reason the Repubs have been pushing her for many, many months now is that they have something to derail her candidacy. Of course it will happen AFTER the nomination. Rove will dig up the dead body and put it on display and it's all over. Luckily I am more interested in other candidates at this point.

[flpoljunkie]

3. Pretty strong stuff. Evidently Mudcat only one willing to speak out against Clintons ticket drag.

[BootinUp]

4. I have seen no evidence that Edwards

has coat-tails. Its nothing but a dream from the Edwards camp.

[w4rma]

8. Oh, you've seen the evidence in poll after poll of general election voters. (nt)

[BootinUp]

16. Well, I haven't, maybe cause I haven't looked

I am willing to look now, what do you have to share?

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

21. There's no evidence of anything

The 'coat-tails' arguments is total guess work.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. i don't get it

how is she leading in polls if people are so worried about her?

they do poll the heartland right?

I'd also like to point out the simple fact that we don't win the heartland anyway, but whatev.

We take Ohio, we win. bottom line.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

19. Not really, dawg

"I'd also like to point out the simple fact that we don't win the heartland anyway, but whatev."

The question isn't winning electoral votes in the Midwest, the question is congressional seats in the Midwest.

[tularetom]

11. What he says makes a lot of sense

but who the hell is goiing to listen to some doofus who goes around callin himself Mudcat. I know he must think it's some cute hillbilly nickname to endear himself to the hicks, but it makes everybody else think he's a dumshit.

[BootinUp]

23. you hurt me with that one. n/t

[Bitwit1234]

13. Maybe she should drag.....................the heartland

the damn so called democrats that won the election in those states aren't democrats at all they are asskissingbushcrackers..

[antiimperialist]

17. This article is BS. Hillary beats all Republicans in Virginia, Kentucky, FLA and MO, poll says

In Kentucky:
Hillary 49%
Giuliani 44%

Hillary 49%
Giuliani 44%

Hillary 53%
Romney 41%

This is from a Rasmussen poll 1 month ago.
http://www.hedgehogreport.com/index.php/7236

CBS=Continous Bull Shit.

[PATRICK]

18. The coattails and the polling today

Things don't jive together so things can be mashed into an ugly fit. The polls today may only have the significance of the moment, the name recognition, the media frame which for reasons supported by weary evidence cannot compare to the decision to actually cast a personal ballot.

On paper, in persona and populism and in the needs of the moment, in region religion or whatever, edwards is logically, passionately the best choice for coattails and getting people in and getting things passed in Congress. it all fits together. What he is not is a shoe-in, media darling cultic hero like an Eisenhower. Eisenhower had won before he even declared a party. Actively suppressed by the GOP control of media script, just one of many in the eyes of ordinary voters, the impossible demand is that he prove he has already accomplished what logic and passion says he could. Somehow the demand gets a pass for Hillary, an equally suppressed doubt to pump up the illogical. That overnight she will erase the negatives, crush the GOP, not inspire it, conquer all the demographics starting with the women's vote. That power will sweep in power and accomplish things more progressively than she dare mention much less promise. All the contradictory doubts and passes and divisions are worthless.

There is a human being. Trust and hope and judge by experience and performance. Flaws, trajectory and commitment and where it is moving. After all the subjectives I would say Edwards is the best shot- no guarantees- to accomplish it all with genuine leadership and a kickstart for others to do more. No poll in the world influenced by other considerations is going to change my mind. Mostly the American people can be trusted to do the same with the usual attrition due to media unfairness, candidate imperfection and that even under the most perfect of campaigns a big chunk of the population goes with some party or ideological prejudice even in the deepest crisis outside of an active Depression.

Unless there exists some pre-anointed gigantic figure who can make these polls look equally godlike, even smart. Thank heaven no such name like that exists today, even an untypically great public servant.
In our times principles clearly match reality and performance. The wrong choices exact heavy tolls. Imperfect choices have a price. Hope and going forward means hoping and going forward. Officials who cower and do not act on their own best judgment even in their own BEST interests fulfill their own fears- and keep their unworthy friends and pathetic patterns of thoughts and compromised actions.

In this journey of hope in which I recognize the complaints and misgivings of Edwards' fair-mined critics, I first hope the voters get out from under the false games - in Iowa- or all other hopes are forever moot, mute and empty speculation. A lot of decent Dems never got the chance to move us forward. All GOP and too many Dems have had every day to apply the brakes and drive blindly in reverse.

[CK_John]

22. So we should dumb down our candidates for the red states dino's. n/t

[fujiyama]

25. What kind of shit is this?

The woman is endorsed by hundreds of "moderates", and now we hear some worrying about how she'll play in rural America? I'm not talking about the Edwards' supporter, but the tons of support Hillary has from DLC pols all around (I'm sure they have these "secret reservations" they'll air out once she loses the general election).

Wow, talk about a party of indecisiveness, incohesiveness, and cowardice. I seriously think the slogan for '08 is "we don't have a wide stance!". That and "No diaper fetishes!".

We have nothing to run on other than not being a bunch of depraved, corrupt fucks. Instead we're a bunch of fucking pansy ass cowards unwilling or incapable of standing up for anything.

[illinoisprogressive]

26. this along with her negatives are extreemly concerning. We will lose

[illinoisprogressive]

27. Guess who is leading in the rural vote: obama. and in fundraising with rural.

[illinoisprogressive]

28. I suggest everyone link and read the full article. it's not good at all.

[calteacherguy]

29. And what this twit from the Edwards campaign says is important? I think not. nt

[MadHound]

31. It isn't Hillary's coattails, or lack thereof, that will keep me from voting for McCaskill

It will be McCaskill's record that prevents me from voting for her. Last fall, I held my nose and voted for her, knowing full well that she was a conservative Dem. It has turned out worse than that, she is nothing more than a 'Pug in Dem clothing, voting for funding the war, and yesterday voting to condemn MoveOn's ad. Unless she changes her voting record soon, I won't be voting for her in '12.

[Alamom]

32. Reprinted from: NRO - America's Premier Site for Conservative News, Analysis, and Opinion.

[Perry Logan]

33. Funny how the anti-Hillarites sing in such harmony with wingnuts.

They believe the same things about Hillary, repeat the same memes about Hillary, etc.