MSM in a frenzy over Iran's crackpot's Ground Zero visit; where were they when...?

[dajoki]

Daily Voice
The Bush Beat «by Ward Harkavy | email: [e-mail]
Bad Guys at Ground Zero
posted: 9:32 AM, September 21, 2007 by Harkavy
http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/2007/09/bad_guys_at_gro.php

This oily business of dealing with evil foreign leaders.


Cold War, warm feelings: Reagan chats with the Taliban in the White House in 1983.


New York's tabloids and assorted pols came unglued yesterday about the very idea of Iran's crackpot hardliner Mahmoud Ahmedinejad wanting to visit Ground Zero.

Where were they when Uzbek dictator Islam Karimov, whose regime boils people to death, was courted by George W. Bush and Mayor Mike Bloomberg?

Don't let your own blood boil at the thought of a bad guy visiting our sacralized 9/11 site. Condemn it, if you want, but Ahmedinejad was just trying to score political points, as our own pols do all the time at Ground Zero. He got what he wanted: The angry U.S. reaction will play well back home in Tehran, especially with the radical mullahs who really run Iran and like to stir up hatred for the "Great Satan."

Do we even have to say that in international politics, enemies today are pals tomorrow, and vice versa, and that the reasons almost always have to do with greed for money and natural resources?

On the other hand, it would be nice if our press at least reported these events. The Uzbek despot Karimov laid a wreath at Ground Zero in 2002, and there was literally not one word in the U.S. press about it at the time — I'm not talking about criticism or praise but any words at all. Nothing.

So Karimov is not a bad enough guy to get you worked up? Saddam Hussein was brown-nosed by Don Rumsfeld in December 1983. There's no reason to condemn Rumsfeld for that; it was just oil politics — just like the oil politics that Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney played when they seized upon the 9/11 attacks to justify invading Iraq.

After all, when Texas oil execs questioned Cheney in 1998, when he was still at Halliburton, about the physical dangers of pursuing oil in turbulent parts of Asia, the future vice president and de facto commander in chief told them:http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/2004/08/a_sensitive_sub.php
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"You've got to go where the oil is. I don't worry about it a lot."
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Saddam is gone, but we still don't really have Iraq's oil. We do, however, have such evil people as the Taliban to deal with, right? Well, the Taliban were hailed as Afghan freedom fighters by Ronald Reagan during their triumphant visit to the White House on March 21, 1983. Reagan said at the time:http://planetquo.com/This-War-On-Terrorism-Is-Bogus
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"To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand-held weapons is an inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson - that there are things in this world worth defending.

"To the Afghan people, I say on behalf of all Americans that we admire your heroism, your devotion to freedom, and your relentless struggle against your oppressors."
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That's ancient history, huh? In fact, they were still our pals 14 years later. In late 1997, the Taliban were wined and dined at the homes of Bush's pals, the Houston oil execs, during Dubya's reign as the hangingest governor in U.S. history.http://cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a120497texasvisit#a120497texasvisit

The oil schnooks were buttering up the Taliban for pipelines and other bidness, of course. See Wayne Madsen's "Afghanistan, the Taliban, and the Bush Oil Team" for details.http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html

At least that courting of the Taliban less than 10 years ago was reported at the time. Of the many words in the mainstream press, my favorites are from a December 14, 1997, story by Caroline Lees in the Telegraph (U.K.), in which she describes the Taliban officials' visit to Unocal vice president Martin Miller's palatial Houston home: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=%2Farchive%2F1997%2F12%2F14%2Fwtal14.html
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After a meal of specially prepared halal meat, rice and Coca-Cola, the hardline fundamentalists — who have banned women from working and girls from going to school — asked Mr Miller about his Christmas tree.
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[slipslidingaway]

1. Thank you K&R n/t

[Carolina]

2. K&R

[BrklynLib at work]

3. Hypocrisy thy name is Repuke, and thy middle name is MSM.

[dajoki]

4. Welcome to DU BrklynLib at work

:hi:

[BrklynLiberal]

15. Delete..in wrong place..

[calimary]

7. Hey! Welcome to DU!

Glad you're here! We need you!

I'm really perplexed by this uproar about the Iranian leader. I think he absolutely SHOULD be taken to Ground Zero and look around and see up close what terrorism did. He should be taken around lower Manhattan and shown the various citizen shrines that were put up, especially one on the outskirts of the Village. He should see what this has wrought. Nothing like the up-close-n-personal view. It can uncloud one's vision.

[dajoki]

9. I agree about the uproar, but...

do you actually think he cares how 9/11 affected us? He sees the terrorism and torture and murder in his own country on a daily basis and it still goes on.

[Chulanowa]

10. Kind of a silly stance...

There is constant terrorism and murder in our country every day - I would wager far more than what Iran goes through. What exactly are our leaders doing about it? Not just the bush administration, but all the way down to local officials. Hell, the police are often in on it and are the primary causes of internal terror.

And yet I'm sure they all care about the people murdered by this, even if only cerebrally. I figure it's the same for Ahmedinejad - His government is pretty damn brutal, but the guy can still, on at least an intellectual level, give a shit.

I figure it's a political stunt, myself - but in this instance, I approve, because it's a political stunt that might actually open some dialogue and get people asking smart questions.

[dajoki]

11. I'm all for opening dialogue...

and asking smart questions. If it does that, fine. I just don't think Ahmedinejad gives a shit. And you are correct about our own country, but I don't like being called "silly", you have your opinion and I have mine(and they don't seem that much different). Let him pull his political stunts at home.

[Chulanowa]

18. I didn't call you silly, I called your position silly

We should bar the man because "he doesn't care"? Are you in favor of applying that criteria universally?

You seem to be taking the stance of so many others - correct me here if I'm wrong - that Ahmedinejad should immediately bow to all of America's demands and concerns, before we allow any sort of discussion about, er, dealing with each others' demands and concerns.

Sort of like how we did with Saddam: "If you completely surrender and abdicate and hand your country over to US control, we'll discuss whether we'll invade and take over or not"

[dajoki]

19. By no means...

should any foreign leader bow to America's demands. Diplomacy(something Bushco knows nothing about)should be our goal. An open discussion must be on the table before the US or any other country can begin to deal with each other's demands and concerns. And it cannot be one-sided, we must listen, and be willing to budge, for us to expect the other nation to consider our requests(and that's what they should be). The US should not be making unreasonable demands on anybody, we might get closer to what we need that way.

As for Ahmedinejad, I'm sorry but I believe he has no business at Ground Zero. It would be an insult to those that were killed and their families. And that has nothing to do with diplomacy or anything I said above. That is my own personal opinion, plain and simple. If you think that is silly, well then fine, there's nothing I can do about that.

[Chulanowa]

20. Even though he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

If your position is "he supports terrorism" then you should honestly be more outraged by the NYPD being in the area.

[dajoki]

21. Its way more complicated than...

"he supports terrorism". And I don't get your tie in with the NYPD. Yes there are bad cops, but your suggestion makes no sense.

Besides the more commonly known Iranian brutal crackdown on dissidents, public executions, executions of minors and other actions; "denying" of the Holocaust and wiping Israel off the map; nuclear programs, in open defiance of the International Atomic Energy Agency, he's considered an extremest even by his own people.

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http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/us.iran/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

Asked about widely documented government abuse of women and homosexuals in his country, Ahmadinejad said, "We don't have homosexuals" in Iran. "I don't know who told you we had it," he said.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

Some human rights organizations and many Western governments say the current human rights situation in Iran under Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is poor; for example, the Canadian government listed Iran as one of the thirteen worst abusers of human rights in 2006. According to Amnesty International, dissidents who oppose the government non-violently face harassment, torture and execution The government routinely tortures and mistreats detained dissidents, including through prolonged solitary confinement."

Human Rights Watch writes that "he Ahmadinejad government, in a pronounced shift from the policy under former president Mohammed Khatami, has shown no tolerance for peaceful protests and gatherings."

In January 2006 security forces attacked striking bus drivers in Tehran and detained hundreds. The government refused to recognize the drivers’ independent union or engage in collective bargaining with them. In February government forces attacked a peaceful gathering of Sufi devotees in front of their religious building in Qum to prevent its destruction by the authorities, using tear gas and water cannons to disperse them. In March police and plainclothes agents charged a peaceful assembly of women’s rights activists in Tehran and beat hundreds of women and men who had gathered to commemorate International Women’s Day. In June as women’s rights defenders assembled again in Tehran, security forces beat them with batons, sprayed them with pepper gas, marked the demonstrators with sprayed dye, and took 70 people into custody.

He knows who he is, what he believes, and what his own mission in life is: serving as the instrument for the revered Mahdi. Allah will make him emerge from the well as soon as the world's conditions hit absolute hopeless bottom. Ahmadinejad sees himself as a driver who can play a critical role in doing just that, driving the world to the very bottom. And he plans on having an arsenal of nuclear weapons as soon as possible.

Tragically, Ahmadinejad is the embodiment of several million people who are hinged exactly like him and who are willing to give their lives, and take with them as many lives as required in the service of their belief. In this age of Weapons of Mass Destruction a man with huge sums of petrodollars can serve as the catalyst of total annihilation.

Ahmadinejad and his ilk are not interested in any negotiation, any compromise or any live-and-let-live final solution. They are determined to be the soldiers of Mahdi come-what-may. They have no problem with the total destruction of the world. They are headed for a life of eternal bliss in Allah's paradise. They hardly care, even rejoice, if the rest of humanity is subjected to a tragic death in the nuclear, biological and chemical wasteland of planet earth.
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http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/who_is_mahmoud_ahmadinejad.html

▪ He literally believes in the imminent emergence of the Mahdi - the Shiites' promised one who is expected to appear to set aright a decadent and wretched world.

▪ His main task is to prepare the world so to hasten the Mahdi's coming. If this preparation requires much destruction and bloodshed, so be it.

▪ He has said in private that it was he who asked the Mahdi to inflict the massive stroke on Ariel Sharon.

In his speech at the UN general assembly, he implored the Mahdi to come and save the world. He claimed that during his speech of some twenty odd minutes, a powerful light enveloped him and all participants were held transfixed, unable to move their eyes.

▪ He believes that the earth is Allah's and all people must either become believers of his brand of Islam or must perish as infidels najis (unclean) who by their very presence defile Allah's earth.

▪ He believes that this earthly life is passing and worthless in comparison to the afterlife awaiting a devoted and faithful believer. Hence, he holds to the old belief that if a faithful kills an infidel, he goes to Allah's paradise; and, if the faithful gets killed in the process of serving the faith, again he goes to Allah's paradise. Hence, it is a win-win proposition for the faithful.
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http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/1/23/173442.shtml?s=lh

Ahmadinejad's messianic beliefs and his obsession with the 12th imam have become an open subject of debate in Tehran. Meeting with his cabinet shortly after taking office last August, the new president reportedly had Cabinet members sign a loyalty oath to the 12th imam, which they dropped into a well near where the Shiite messiah is believed to be hiding.

Reports in government media outlets in Tehran have quoted Ahmadinejad as having told regime officials that the 12th imam will reappear in two years. That was too much for Iranian legislator Akbar Alami, who publicly questioned Ahmadinejad's judgment, saying that even Islam's holiest figures have never made such claims.

Led by Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, who frequently appears with Ahmadinejad, the Hojatieh society is considered by many Shiite Muslims as their own bona fide lunatic fringe. During the early years of the Islamic Revolution, even Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini found their beliefs too extreme for public commerce and sent them scurrying underground.

Since taking the reins of government in August, Ahmadinejad has placed Hojatieh devotees in his Cabinet and through the bureaucracy, where they are leading a crackdown on students, women, Western music and religious minorities.

On Nov. 22, a Christian pastor was murdered after the president told a gathering of some 30 provincial governors, "I will stop Christianity in this country." Other Christians have been arrested and Bibles confiscated in recent weeks.

The president's opponents within the regime believe that the widespread replacement of competent bureaucrats with Hojatieh supporters having little government experience could prove fatal to him. "The new guys don't know what they are doing, and the fired people are angry," said the source who just returned from Tehran. "So there is a window of opportunity."

[Chulanowa]

22. I never said he wasn't a kook. He's nutty as a box of cracker jacks

But I think it's strange how high the standards are for this guy, compared to the many other freaks and psychos have been welcomed to do exactly what he's doing. Where was your outrage over Putin making the same visit? He fits all those concerns you have with Ahmedinejad, after all.

Perhaps it's simply a symptom of so many in our nation - including a shocking number of DU posters - who think mass murder committed against the people of Iran is a great idea.

[dajoki]

24. Wait a minute!!

"Perhaps it's simply a symptom of so many in our nation - including a shocking number of DU posters - who think mass murder committed against the people of Iran is a great idea."

Where the hell did you pull that one from? What makes you think I or a shocking number of DU posters condone mass murder committed against the people of Iran? Nothing I said should lead you to come to a conclusion like that. You seem to be trying to make this personal, but I won't bite. I gave you my opinion and somehow you came up with some whacked out interpretation about mass murder!! You just go on believing what you want because, obviously, other people's words somehow get twisted in your mind and come back meaningless.

[Chulanowa]

25. Context, buddy, context.

Why the outrage over THIS guy? Where were you when the president of Uzbekistan laid a wreath? And as I asked, where were you when Putin did? Neither one are people I would call "nice" or even "sane" in many cases, and definately neither one are friends of Democracy. Putin is returning his country to a single-party restrictive system complete with new-era KGB. Uzbekistan never stopped that, and that government boils dissidents.

But hey, you're up in arms over who? Granted he's a grapefruit and has a big mouth, but he's at least a notch or two better than Putin. I estimate your outrage over Ahmedinejad's visit is a symptom of you buying into propaganda that's out to make this guy Hitler, propaganda engineered by the part of our nation that wants war with Iran.

Now maybe you don't want to go to war with Iran. That's great. But you're still doing a fine job of standing idly by while the right wing and their Liebercrat allies march off the deep end. You're even bolstering their points. because, gosh darn, you just know Ahmedinejad personally tied the nooses for those gay kids, just like Bill Clinton himself gave the not guilty verdict for the cops who beat the crap out of Rodney King, amirite?

[dajoki]

26. Did you even bother to read the initial post...

New York's tabloids and assorted pols came unglued yesterday about the very idea of Iran's crackpot hardliner Mahmoud Ahmedinejad wanting to visit Ground Zero.

Where were they when Uzbek dictator Islam Karimov, whose regime boils people to death, was courted by George W. Bush and Mayor Mike Bloomberg?

<<snip>>

On the other hand, it would be nice if our press at least reported these events. The Uzbek despot Karimov laid a wreath at Ground Zero in 2002, and there was literally not one word in the U.S. press about it at the time — I'm not talking about criticism or praise but any words at all. Nothing.
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"Where were you when the president of Uzbekistan laid a wreath?" That's what this thread was about. Why the MSM outrage over this guy nd not the others? You have know idea what my thoughts about that are, unless you can go back in time to 2002 and read minds. So you estimate my outrage over Ahmedinejad's visit is a symptom of me buying into propaganda that's out to make this guy Hitler, propaganda engineered by the part of our nation that wants war with Iran. I've been around quite awhile, pal, and am not that naive to buy into anybody's propoganda including yours. I do not need to be told by anyone how to think, I make my own decisions.

I am so happy to hear that you think maybe I don't want to go to war with Iran(sarcasm intended). But I'm still doing a fine job of standing idly by while the right wing and their Liebercrat allies march off the deep end. And I'm even bolstering their points. How would possibly get that from these few posts we've had. Ahh, I forgot you have ESP. You are going back to your mind reading tricks again, unless you have a camera on me or have been doing some spying, which if you did, you would see just how insane your "observations" are.

As for Putin, he is another evil dictator, but seems to be good friends with your pal Georgie. Where were you when he was in Kennebunkport, or Crawford, or the White House for that matter. Maybe you want Ahmedinejad to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom. Wouldn't that be nice, to put all three of them, Georgie, Putin and Ahmedinejad in there together. What a meeting of the minds!! They could save the World!! I'd bet you would love to be in on that, huh?

One final thought, MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT QUESTION MY LOYALTY AND LOVE OF MY FAMILY, which is something you know nothing about!! AND ALSO DO NOT QUESTION MY LOYALTY AND LOVE OF MY DEMOCRATIC PARTY, which is one more thing you know nothing about!! I will not defend my politics to you because my LIBERAL beliefs need no defending. You think you know a lot more than you actually do, but its very obvious that you make too many assumptions (for which you do not have enough information) that from what I've seen are usually wrong.

[Chulanowa]

27. Putin, George, and Ahmedinejad?

I'll be honest, I think that's a kickass idea for a sitcom. Putin can be the neat-freak, George the slobbish frat guy, and Ahmedinejad would be the neurotic landlord. Call it "Cuckoo Nest"? Naaaah. Definitely a work in progress.

[dajoki]

28. Yes it would...

all the good titles are taken like "The Three Stooges or "The Three Amigos." I was thinking, "Three dictators and a Bottle". But like you said its a work in progress. Can you imagine the crazy cast of charactors that could be in it?

[calimary]

12. Understood. But he, and EVERYONE ELSE on the planet can agree

on the damage done. Regardless to whom it's been done, or where, or why. Damage is damage. It's the sad common thread that afflicts us all, and, yes, unites us all.

We need SOME common thread to seize upon, that might give us something - ANYTHING - to talk about. When you're at least talking, you might be a little less likely to start shooting.

I don't know. Something about maybe trying to start up a new mind set.

Look, Mr. Enemy. Come and look. Let's look at it together, shall we? We took it in the shorts here. Yes. WE did. It happened to us, too. We are victims of madness and carnage. This, we DO understand. This unites us ALL in sadness and loss and waste and devastation. I know you can understand that, and that you share it. We ALL share this. Every nation has its version of it, and this one is ours. We are ALL invested in this, whether we want to accept that fact or not. Yes. Come and look. Let's look at it together, and see what we can learn from it, together. And how we can prevent more of it from happening. To us, AND to you. AND TO EVERYONE.

[dajoki]

14. "Let's look at it together"...

is the key. I don't pretend to know what Ahmedinejad expected out of his visit, whether to score political points worldwide, pay his respects(although I highly doubt it)or anything and everything in between. Let's face it though, he's not a nice man, to say the least. But as they say, "it takes two to tango", if you get my drift. So no matter what his point was, its moot. I also believe in the phrase, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". So who will be hurt by talking? Like you said "When you're at least talking, you might be a little less likely to start shooting."

[BrklynLiberal]

16. I agree with your assessment.

And I think it would be interesting if some of the US govt officials who visit Iraq went to the outskirts instead of the safe zones- the bombed out buildings and hospitals with wounded children- where some of the REAL damage has been done and see the actual havoc that the US policies have wrought.

[EVDebs]

5. "Now, there you go again"...telling the truth on them ! nt

[Bitwit1234]

6. I posted earlier....

that 17 of the 19 attackers of the Twin Towers were Saudi....and bush invited the prince of saudi to the white house AND held his hand.

[dajoki]

8. And flew...

the bin-Ladens out of the country after the attacks, when all air-traffic was banned.

[Blue_In_AK]

13. It amuses me

that they don't want to give Ahmedinejad a "photo op." These guys definitely have a blind spot when it comes to hypocrisy, given that ** seems to be the King of the Photo Op.

[dajoki]

17. Maybe they're afraid...

he will bring a bullhorn.:rofl:

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Thanks for posting this! I didn't know Ward Harkavy was back to

writing "The Bush Beat." When VV got a new editor a couple of years ago, it was cancelled and he was moved to something else and I quit reading VV in protest. Now I can go back. :hippie: