Would men leave the Democratic party if Hillary is the nominee?

[jcrew2001]

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/epolls/NH/index.html

After seeing that Dem primary voters are usually 55% female in most states, it occurred to me that the Democratic Male might become even more endangered if Hillary is the nominee.

I personally don't know any men who support Hillary, but that would change once she is the nominee.

But would white males, black males, latino males really vote for Hillary?

I'm not sure what the answer is. Does anyone have any polling on Male voters and their view of Hillary?

[wyldwolf]

1. Would white people leave the Democratic party if Obama is the nominee?

I personally don't know any white people support Obama, but that would change once she is the nominee.

See how that works?

[renie408]

14. Gee, it looks like

I am just going to follow you around agreeing with you all over the place.

My husband would support Hillary. As I sit here, I can think of two guys I know who have already said she is their choice and several more who have said they would vote for her if she is the candidate. I get pretty sick of this focus on Hillary-as-a-woman shit.

[wyldwolf]

18. "I am just going to follow you around agreeing with you all over the place. "

I'm like Bill and Hillary. I have a lot of closet supporters on DU. :)

[AtomicKitten]

2. I think the party will fracture.

I can't predict the male/female/age breakdown, just reading the writing on the wall.

[wyldwolf]

5. what "writing on the wall?"

[renie408]

15. I think she's got "I hate Hillary" written on her wall. Maybe that's it? n/t

[AtomicKitten]

22. thank you for your pointless input

[AtomicKitten]

21. one would have to be unconscious to not feel the heat

[wyldwolf]

23. the only heat I feel (and it's really just luke warm) is in the netroots...

... in reality, Clinton leads Obama among men by 18%.

[AtomicKitten]

25. that is your perception of the situation

My perception is based on my experience working on some projects for the upcoming election that have convinced me of an alarming backlash brewing. While you can accurately point to a great deal of support for her, I'm actually seeing an upswing in agitation at the prospect of her candidacy. She elicits scorched earth intraparty pledges to reject her nomination. You may feel it's nothing; I disagree.

[wyldwolf]

26. That is what national polling says

My perception is based on my experience working on some projects for the upcoming election that have convinced me of an alarming backlash brewing.

Funny. MY experience working on "some projects for the upcoming election" has convinced me of the exact opposite.

[mrgorth]

3. I wouldn't leave the party

but we will get demolished. You are right about this.

[ElizabethDC]

4. I know several men who support Sen. Clinton. n/t

[emilyg]

8. oh yes - so do I.

[Tellurian]

43. I know (more than )several women who have promised their husbands/boyfriends

"no sugar" if Hillary doesn't win the nomination!

These are the strong archetype women who are good at everything.

[jcrew2001]

44. Does Hillary use this tactic to win arguments from Bill?

is that what lewinsky was all about? something over health care or nafta?

[Tellurian]

47. Bill has admitted she's smarter than him...

How many men do you know that have never had a lewinsky? Personally, I don't know any.

[jcrew2001]

50. Sure some men have extra girlfriends/affairs while married

but usually they lose a lot of money in the divorce settlement

Do we really want Bill pulling a Neil Bush in Thailand?

I don't think any man would vote for Hillary because his wife told him to. After all, men are more worried over money than sex, especially if they have money.

[Tellurian]

55. What did Neil Bush do in Thailand?

and why would what he did matter to me?

The response to the Hillary question is simple...with Hillary you get Bill. Peace and "Prosperity" for 8 yrs..

[jcrew2001]

58. Neil Bush had lots of Thai hookers

it was reported in his divorce case.

"Scandals and Affairs" from 1996 is back in vogue! lets party like its 1996, good times.

[Tellurian]

60. I guess it's relevant to people that care...

what other tabloidism excites you?...

[jcrew2001]

77. Maybe if my gf withheld loving, i would be forced elsewhere

like Bill. So I don't really blame him if that is your excuse for how Women can control men into voting for Hillary.

Its a bit sad but its only the country and the election, so make a man choose between his large brain and his second brain.

[BOSSHOG]

6. I can't answer your polling question

but I'm a male, Navy Vet, truck driving borderline redneck sumbitch liberal with no identity issues. If Hillary wins the dem nomination I will do whatever I can to get her elected. As I will for whomever gets the dem nomination.

[Xipe Totec]

7. I'm right with you, bubba!

:thumbsup:

:dem:

[renie408]

16. You GO, big boy!!

My construction working, toolbelt wearing, truck driving, southern country boy husband will be right beside you supporting Hillary if she gets the nomination.

[BOSSHOG]

19. I NEVER get tired of being called BIG BOY!!

You are so kind.

[Red Zelda]

9. Would sane people leave

if Kucinich were the nominee???

[Clark2008]

10. He's actually more sane than the other candidates...

It's just the media making us all think we're in alternative universes where it's OK to vote against the Constitution.

[Red Zelda]

12. The media gave me Restless Leg Syndrome

[Clark2008]

42. LOL - I wouldn't doubt it.

Ever notice that once a drug company gets a line on a new drug, THEN, all of a sudden, people THINK they have said disease and need said drug?

Who ever heard of RLS two decades ago?

[Ken Burch]

28. No. Just you. But you clearly hate progressives, ideals, hope and dreams anyway

so no great loss.

Did Dennis torture your pets or something? Jeeeezus!

[redqueen]

11. Some, sure.

As for how many... well I guess maybe we might get a chance to find out come election day.

[Mojambo]

13. Not because she's a woman, no. n/t

[Bitwit1234]

17. I think a lot of them would after all just look at the DU bashing.

Do you think for one minute that they would bash a male. The other GUY's supporters never bash Edwards, Richardson, Dodd, and all the rest.

[shenmue]

20. Aww, poor widdle baby.

Just can't stand being around those icky girls and their cooties?

If that's why they want to leave, then don't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out. Sexist assholes.

[beaconess]

32. Bam!

Any man who would leave the Democrats because of Hillary or any white person who would leave because of Obama aren't true Democrats, in my view. Good riddance to them. I'm sure they'll be much more happy with their kind over in the Republican Party.

[jcrew2001]

45. At least the 45% of men in the Dem party have stayed strong!

so much for the 'big tent' party, the tents become deflated and everyone's waiting for lileth fair.

[Dr Fate]

24. No- but some GOPers will pry themselves from their ratty arm chairs and cast GOP votes.

Otherwise, some of these types might just stay at home and stew in their own juices...

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. I'm a woman and I do not want to vote for Hillary

What's your point? This question is sexist. Most Hillary supporters on DU tend to be male, that I have noticed.

[Enrique]

29. the earth will continue rotating on its axis if Hillary becomes the nominee

she is just a conventional politician, despite her ridiculous demonization from the left and from the right.

[illinoisprogressive]

30. this woman will leave if she's the nominee.

[beaconess]

33. Wow.

[William769]

92. And you will not be missed.

[beaconess]

31. Would black people leave the Democratic party if anyone but Obama is the nominee?

Jeez.

[jcrew2001]

35. I don't know, maybe if Colin Powell or Condi Rice are on the ticket

for the GOP.

[jcrew2001]

34. 52% of men will not vote for Hillary in a poll

"Topping both categories is the best known candidate in the field, the Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton. Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters say they will definitely vote for her no matter who else is on the ballot. However, 44% say they will definitely vote against her in November 2008. As with almost all polling on the Clinton candidacy, a huge gender gap exists. Thirty-four percent (34%) of women say they’ll definitely vote for her while 38% will definitely vote against. Among men, just 29% percent will vote for her and 52% take the opposite view."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/for_or_against_presidential_candidates

---------------------------

If the national Democratic Party consists off 55% women, then would it make sense to try to increase the 45% of men who are part of the Dem party.

Or if by nominating Hillary, then the strategy is to increase the Female demographic to 60%.

I think Rudy will be very enticing to Male swing voters, especially for those who dislike Hillary.

[sandnsea]

37. Men don't vote for Democrats

That's what the whole bubba nascar garbage is all about. It never occurs to our party to simply praise men who take care of their families, that's all they're looking for.

[jcrew2001]

39. I agree, most men I know are Republicans and more politically active

including my father. I liked bill and gore. But they were more of an aberration in the big picture. The image of "Liberalism" scares most men - higher taxes, weak national security, activist govt/social change.

The initial reaction is a rejection of the Democratic party. Even though Rudy is far from perfect, I think he'll be able to win Indy/Suburban males who are scared of Hillary.

[sandnsea]

48. Look at the health care proposals

Stick the tab on small business, which is traditionally men. Require pre-existings be insured, but do nothing to monitor the premium amounts. Give tax credits, but leave the procedures vague. Expand medicare, low income schip, and federal buy-ins - but pretend it isn't going to cost anything (as Richardson does). Throw a mandate on top of it all.

Pretend the social security problem is boomers because you can't admit the Clinton surplus was the FICA money that was supposed to fund the boomers' retirement.

Then offer nothing substanitally different on foreign policy or terrorism.

Why would they vote Dem.

We're in trouble for next year.

[jcrew2001]

54. Men only care about Money and National Security

Most men are small business owners and even though we hate the Iraq War, we hate losing our business more.

[sandnsea]

64. Men care about their wives and children

If you take away their ability to protect them, economically and physically, you have destroyed their purpose. Who will men trust with the keys to the house and the credit cards, that's who they vote for. Men aren't complicated, never have been.

[dionysus]

79. okay you've gone over the line right there.

i guess all men to you are mindless fucking idiots. sorry you've hung out with shitty guys, you must have had bad taste.

[sandnsea]

85. "Shitty guys" - who care about their family??

I wasn't talking about mindless fucking idiots - but you've sure proven they exist.

I think men who take care of their wives and kids are pretty terrific.

[LanternWaste]

101. Although I'd never admit to being complicated...

Although I'd never admit to being complicated, I've gotten pretty good at convincing a few women that I am.

(I hope your post was as tongue in cheek as mine was...)

[seasat]

57. Hey now! White, male, Baptist, Southern Democrat here, that would vote for her.

I've only ever registered as a Democrat and have been here at DU since 2002. I'm not a fan of NASCAR but do occasionally hunt and fish when I have the time. I'm an amateur mechanic who drives a pickup truck. Even though Hillary is not my first choice, I'll proudly support her if she is our nominee.

My father-in-law is a Democrat and a die hard Hillary supporter. He is a retired military veteran and lives on a farm in rural Mississippi.

Both of us might be classified as Bubbas but neither of us would abandon the Democratic party over a Hillary nomination.

[sandnsea]

61. because everybody is exactly the same

:eyes:

Check the demographics. The white male vote is a huge problem for Democrats. You should be talking to your neighbors, not me.

[seasat]

67. I do and all of my white male southern friends that are Democrats would support her.

The problem with our party and attracting white males is not Hillary. We need to emphasize fiscal responsibility and minimize our policies on gun control to attract white Southern males. Hillary is doing pretty good on the first part and Richardson is doing pretty good on both. Besides women vote in larger percentages than guys and it would make sense to appeal to them.

Do you have some polling information that males, white or otherwise, would abandon the Democratic party if she is our nominee? I don't support her for several reasons and would prefer Richardson or Obama over her but I and my white male Democratic friends will support her if she gets the nomination.

What are the alternatives for white males if she does get the nomination? A cross dressing New York mayor? A prissy Massachusetts Governor who is on every side of an issue? A phony Hollywood TV star? And as far as McCain goes, several of my Repug friends hate him and have said they would vote for even Hillary over him. He engenders as much animosity on the Repug side as Hillary does on the Democratic side. The only one that might give her trouble is Huckabee but he's a footnote with their top four sucking the oxygen out of the room.

Hillary's electability is not the issue. There are many other criticisms that can be made of her that are more effective. Chris Bowers over at Open Left is definitely not a Hillary supporter but is pretty good at interpreting polls. Here's what he had to say about the recent poll from Biden's pollster that is being used to attack Hillary.

What does this mean? First, it means that if Sunday shows are using this to attack Clinton, they really need to step it up and think of a better line of attack (cough, residual forces, cough). Second, I think it shows that the argument that Clinton would hurt Democratic coattails is just as fraudulent as the notion that she is unelectable herself. No matter who the Democratic nominee is, local Dems will be attacked for being connected to such a hateful, liberal, evil, socialist, anti-family, elitist traitor. The Republican attack machine will attack everyone in pretty much the same manner. If other candidates want to defeat Clinton for the Democratic nomination, they are going to have to choose a path other than electability (cough, residual forces, cough).

[sandnsea]

68. I didn't say she was

Maybe you better go back and read what I said. White men don't vote for DEMOCRATS, it has nothing to do with Hillary being a woman.

[sandnsea]

36. I know men who support Hillary

In fact, the only people I know who support her are men.

White Men don't vote for Democrats. That's not new or a surprise.

[LeFleur1]

38. Huh?

White men don't vote for Democrats?

Real Men Vote Democrat.

[dionysus]

80. we got a man hater here it seems....

all us males are repubs in diguise cause we're stupid!!

[jcrew2001]

40. If Rudy puts a Hispanic as his VP

then I fear the Hispanic voters will all vote GOP

[Clark2008]

41. I hate to say this, but I know of two off the top of my head who would.

Granted, my two is not a scientific poll and not even indicative of any mass exodus. I'm just pointing out that I know of two men who would leave the Party if she becomes the nominee. That and $1 will get you some coffee in a local diner.

[Tellurian]

46. A better question is: How many posters would leave DU when Hillary wins the Nom?

would the decks be cleared? Would there be a thoughtful/thoughtless restructuring of supporting Hillary as the Democratic Nominee?

[jcrew2001]

51. It seems like the "paid" Hillary supporters will disappear as well

and their Hillary avatars. Mission accomplished to them.

[ElizabethDC]

53. And which ones are they? n/t

[jcrew2001]

56. your friend Tellurian runs the official/unofficial hillary attack site

that she advertises on her icon.

For a "Free Speech Messageboard" there are a lot of Paid Advertisers here.

[Tellurian]

63. I've designated the His44.org site a Love-In...

come-by sometime and we'll educate you... no strings attached!

[jcrew2001]

72. Tell Carville and Matlin I said hello

and mark penn.

I don't know why a love site would try so hard to make hillary look mean and vindicative against her opponents. But its your site, anything you say will reflect upon the candidate herself.

I thought hillary was a nice, compassionate person, yeah right.

[William769]

96. I will.

:rofl:

[Tellurian]

62. I don't know anyone who is a paid Hillary supporter...

or are you just ruminating again?

[dionysus]

81. after months of your vitriol.....

a lot. people like you try and chase posters off this board. ridicule is your only tactic, and it's weak.

[saltpoint]

49. If there were men who left the party because a strong successful woman

purported to lead it, I might suggest that they aren't men in the first place.

Let's take 2 seconds for an undies check, and then proceed with the business of defeating right-wing Republicans.

[jcrew2001]

52. Hey Rudy looks good in a dress, so its not about real men

being afraid but about choosing an alternative to Hillary.

[saltpoint]

59. Ya know what, Rudy DOES look good in a dress. The cigar is a bit off-putting,

but that's a health thing and not a style thing for me.

I understand the point you were making, jcrew2001. Just wanted to say that voters should not reject her because of her gender.

I'm supporting another candidate in the primary, but I acknowledge that he's not polling as well as she is right now.

This fall, I believe, is going to be a really historic time watching the jostling among the candidates for position.

I think the smart money right now stays in our pockets. I wouldn't make a firm prediction myself until at least early January, and maybe not even then.

[jcrew2001]

76. It could be a topic for Independent male voters who already

distrust the Dems.

I like Edwards too, I'm afraid that the people of Iowa have forgotten about him, however he's the only person who can beat all GOP candidates by a clear margin. I don't know why a Rational Person would want to give up a Sure Thing, but maybe I need to spend more time in the democratic party.

If the Iowa primary is really 55% women, then they may have already settled on Hillary. Maybe Teddy Kennedy can work his magic again in 2008 for Edwards.

Its not that Hillary is a woman, its that she's Hillary Rodham and half the country already dislikes her, so why start out being down.

[saltpoint]

82. There is a thread or two about Senator Clinton being somehow victimized

by being a woman in this nomination race.

I'm not seeing that at all.

To start with, she's leading in all national polling.

She has a pile of money.

She has major name recognition.

She's the odds-on favorite to win the presidency.

So I'm definitely not seeing her as a victim.

Agree with you on Edwards. I think he is a very appealing candidate nationwide in all regions.

We could win the White House and many other key slots on the ballots with him at the top of the ticket.

[abq e streeter]

65. I would consider ceasing to be a registered Democrat

if our nominee was to be a DLC corporate sell-out of any race, religion, gender, sexual preference...BUT-- would still vote for the Dem. nominee. My de-registering would be a symbolic protest; I don't believe we have the luxury this time around of not voting for Dems on every level from president to local dog-catcher; and I will vote for HRC or whoever, and if I'm sick to my stomach at who I've ended up having to vote for, that vote will count as much as a strong supporter of the nominee ( maybe more, since we're going to paper ballots here, so my Democratic votes will actually be counted as such).

[jcrew2001]

74. i might write in John Edwards like the guy in Minnisota

haha

[EndElectoral]

66. I wouldn't leave the party of FDR and JFK, but I couldn't vote for her

[pnwmom]

69. All the Democratic men I know would vote for her.

And some guys who voted for Bush last time, even if she's the Democratic nominee.

This country is ready for a change. If only we could count on clean and accurate vote counting.

[nealmhughes]

70. Mrs. Clinton's reproductive organs are the least of my problems with her.

Did men abandon the two senators from California and Maine because of their gender? Did any members of the House cross the aisle when Mrs. Pelosi was chosen Speaker?

If the party does split, it will not be because of a gender issue, believe me: there is a civil war right now in the Party and Mrs. Clinton represents the Corporate status quo wing. Her gender is not material in my dislike for her votes.

Did the Texas wingnuts flock to the Democratic Party to get Kay Bailey Hutchinson out of office?

Ridiculous question.

[jcrew2001]

75. The president has control of the button

But on a state level, most people either don't care or are open minded. ON a national level, there is plenty of red states and independent males who will not vote for Hillary in the swing states.

[gulliver]

71. No Democrat will vote against her. Some GOP women ...

... will vote for her. They want that glass ceiling broken too.

[jcrew2001]

73. There are 37% democrats nationally

so there are still a lot of indy men who might not vote for her, not counting the 37% GOP

[Sparkly]

78. AP Today: "Independent voters tilt toward Democrats"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070923/ap_po/irked_independents

[jcrew2001]

89. Good article, especially the 42% who dislike hillary

Independents are not a lock for Democrats. The two major parties are each viewed favorably by only about one-fifth of independents, according to a recent NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll. The survey also found that 42 percent of them have an unfavorable view of the leading Democratic presidential contender, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y. — the highest among each parties' major hopefuls.

"I don't trust either political party," said Natalie Frank, 64, an independent and homemaker from Crystal, Minn. "They're more for the big dollar than the individual person."

--------------------------

As long as Rudy separates himself from Bush - difficult for an NYC catholic, pro-choice social-liberal.

He can win back the indepedents.

[onenote]

83. here is a list of men who wont leave the party

Gen. Wesley Clark
Rep. Alcee Hastings
Gov. Tom Vilsack
Gov. Jon Corzine
Gov. Martin O'Malley
Rep. Richard Neal
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse
Rep. Jim Langevin
Steven Spielberg
Rep. Kendrick Meek
Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger
Rep. Henry Cuellar
Rep. Ruben Hinojosa
Rep. Jay Inslee
Rep. Albio Sires
Fmr. Mayor David Dinkins
Fmr. Sen. Richard Gephardt
Fmr. Ambassador Joseph Wilson
Gov. Mike Beebe
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver


Several African-American and latino men on that list,too.
Do you feel even a little foolish for asking the question?

[jcrew2001]

90. Hillary will buy the election with political favors

but the middle-class blue collar guy will not vote for her. He'll vote for Rudy.

[onenote]

99. you are referring to middle class blue collar guys that are still Democrats, right?

There are plenty -- too many, imo -- blue collar middle class guys that have left the Democratic party. I have no reason to believe that those who have stayed with the party -- especially union guys -- will prefer a repub, particularly Rudy, to Hillary. SHe has picked up several union endorsements. He, on the other hand, has been slammed by no less than the firefighters union -- something that I think will resonate with middle class blue collar guys.

[BenDavid]

84. If men leave the party because HRC is elected

president,or the nominee, then good riddance as these were sexist and racist to begin with. So, who needs em.....Bye

Ben David

[jcrew2001]

91. For a party that is 55% women it seems like a good idea

to increase women voters and decrease male voters?

[LibDemAlways]

86. I don't think men would leave the party, but some Dems,

men and women, will be tempted to sit the election out. I won't do that - too much at stake in 08 - but I won't be able to work up much enthusiasm either. We can't afford to nominate someone who is going to guarantee an election close enough for repukes to steal.

[mitchum]

87. This man will, but it has nothing to do with her gender

[Greyhound]

88. I will, though it has nothing to do with her being a her.

I've despised her, almost as much as her husband, since long before she ran for President.

I will vote for her because the SCOTUS nominations are vital and hers will probably be less vile than a Republik's, but I will leave the party.

[MaineDem]

93. If someone's Democratic values are changed because Hillary is the candidate...

why were they Democrats int he first place?

Makes one wonder...

[Didereaux]

94. ...I would have to...despite

Being neither Democrat, nor Republican and supporting no fringe parties, I have to say up front that I would take 3-4 Tums and pull the lever for Hillary. The last seven years cannot be allowed to happen again...under any circumstances.

I am a 'senior' citizen usually mistaken for a good ol' boy Bubba...living in Texas. So yes, there is at least one, and I strngly suspect that at poll time there will be quite a few.

...

[William769]

95. I am a man and I won't be leaving. NT

[Reno.Muse]

97. I personally know one woman who is supporting Hillary

...and I'm going Indendent soon if the Dems don't stop being rerun wussies.

[riqster]

98. I will support our nominee in Nov '08, period.

The worst Dem beats the best Reep, any day.

Having said that, IMNSHO all of our candidates have glass jaws, feet of clay, fatal flaws, etc. They are humans, after all.

I'll probably vote Kucinich in the primary, to push the platform left. The primary and general elections are vastly different beasties.

[LanternWaste]

100. I'm male. Were she the democratic nominee,

I'm male. Were she the democratic nominee, I would vote for her. Does that help?