Hillary's so unpopular in this country that Repubs use her as an ISSUE TO RUN ON

[ginchinchili]

I just heard a report on NPR about how disappointed Republican voters are with their candidates, but one interesting point that was made is that the one thing to unite them at this point is a Hillary Clinton candidacy.

The Democrats do not need that unnecessary baggage. Republicans are already using her as an issue like the Democrats are using the failed war in Iraq. Not only does it put the White House in jeopardy, but it will also hurt our chances of gaining seats in the House and Senate. I like Hillary, but there are higher priorities to consider than to get another Clinton into the White House.

We have to use our heads and unite behind a candidate who can win. Personally, my money's on Sen. Biden, the candidate who has the best potential to peel away Independents and moderate Republicans, and who simply has the most experience. And it doesn't hurt that he's smart and he's tough. I like his chances.

[shaniqua6392]

1. Ugh.

Another Hillbash on DU. How surprising.

[msongs]

2. "i like Hillary". thanks for the disclaimer :-) nt

[calteacherguy]

3. Hillary Clinton is our best and most electable choice, and will make a great President.

Thanks for continuing the right-wing disinformation campaign here on DU.

[aquart]

4. Thank you for your concern.

You really shouldn't have selected no excitement no chance Biden as your winning candidate. WAAAAAAAY too transparent. Almost to the point of satire.

BTW, we don't need one single Republican vote to win. There are more of us than them.

[ginchinchili]

11. Guess you're too young to remember the last election

The Republicans won running an idiot. You're overconfidence is another reason for concern.

[Middle finga]

14. Yeah an idiot that was a proven liar and proven to be incompetent

and they still pulled it out so don't take the publicans for granted and definitely don't automatically assume the american public has woken up.

[ginchinchili]

21. Thank you, Middle finga. You speak what should be the obvious truth.

Little would make the Republicans more happy than to see the Democrats overconfident, and apparently it's a real danger.

[Andromeda]

25. Well, they didn't exactly win now, did they?

They had the Supreme Court step and appoint the chimpster.

[ginchinchili]

32. No, that was 2 presidential elections ago. I'm referring to 2004

But even in 2000 it shouldn't have been close enough for the Republicans to steal the election that way. Point being, don't think the country has made a sharp turn to the left.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. If It's Not Hillary It's Going To Be Edwards Or Obama

Joe Biden has as much chance of becoming president as Adam Sandler does of winning an Oscar...

[calteacherguy]

6. Nah, not that much of a chance. And I like Biden, but I'm real. nt

[saracat]

16. Actually Adam might have a better chance! LOL!

[ginchinchili]

24. Sen. Biden has worked long and hard for the Democrats

and our country as a whole. And don't forget, the presidency is for the whole country, not just one Party. Don't let Dubya become an example to follow.

It's a shame that so many Democrats make sophomoric attacks against this good man just because he's running against the candidate they happen to support. Perhaps the Republican Party doesn't hold a monopoly on narrow-mindedness after all. Perhaps it has become an American characteristic.

[saracat]

26. Hey! I like Biden! aside from his Bankruptcy Bill vote, he is generally

okay.He is a bit of an ego maniac but I can forgive him that because one really needs a big ego to run for office.I was only joking.

[ginchinchili]

33. And if I had made a joke like that about Hillary?

What do you think the response on this thread would be?

[saracat]

37. It wasn't meant to be nasty. But truthfully Biden is not in the top tier at the moment

and he really isn't likely to be.He hasn't got the money and the "machinery"behind him. If he was considered credible, the banking interests in Delaware would be swarming all over themselves to support his campaign. They are not doing so because they do not see him as a "serious" candidate. Biden has done this before, and this time I think this is more of a run for VP or a cabinet position. As for,if the joke had been about Hillary? I am always attacked by Hillary supporters even when I praise her so I expect it from them.

[ginchinchili]

50. Biden is where Clinton and Carter was at this point in their elections

So that doesn't concern me at this point. Not a serious candidate? This guy has more experience than anyone else running, except maybe John McCain, and he has linked his candidacy to a losing war. Why would Sen. Biden want to be VP to someone who knows less about leadership than he does? The #1 issue in this campaign is the Iraq war. He's the only candidate with a viable, responsible plan to get us out of there. No one else is talking seriously about it. Biden as the balls to do so and that's what America needs. He's been to Iraq 8 times, more than any other Democratic candidate. He can garner the much needed support from Independents and moderate Republicans in a general election. He is more capable of working across the aisle than any other candidate, and that's crucial if the Democrats are serious about getting things done. To count this political veteran out this early is a serious miscalculation.

[saracat]

111. rated for inflation and using the comps today, no one had that little funding. One cannot win

without money.Clinton had the famous "rolodex" of those that owed him. And the candidate doing really well for the GOP vote is Edwards. Biden is an intelligent man and his Iraq plan is spot on but sorry to say he isn't gonna be the nominee.He hasn't got the "populist thing' going for him that Clinton and Carter had either. He comes across as just "angry", not "feeling our pain"

[ginchinchili]

113. Right now I'd rather have someone feeling my anger than my pain

Biden doesn't have that populist thing going for him? His Iraq plan is spot on? Whatever. Edwards may lay claim to a campaign with a populist feel to it, but not Hillary, except maybe a populist with big corporations.

[saracat]

116. Who said Hillary was a populist? Not me for sure!

[ginchinchili]

118. My bad. You were refering to Bill, not Hillary. Sorry about that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. It Wasn't An Attack On The Gentleman But A Realistic Assessment Of The State Of His Candidacy

eom

[durrrty libby]

7. You are uninspiring and unoriginal

Hillary all the way

[ginchinchili]

17. Cool, you don't agree with my comment so you attack me personally

Guess the truth really does hurt.

[saracat]

27. Actually those comments better reflect her candidate than your comments! LOL!

[saracat]

28. "Uninspiring and unoriginal? "Like Hillary's Healthcare Plan?

[Bjornsdotter]

8. Buying into the Republican line?

Obviously their scare tactic has worked on you.

Cheers

BTW...there are many women here who will never get behind Biden, remember Anita Hill?

[ginchinchili]

12. I see. We either support your candidate, or we've been tricked by Repubs

You're analysis is very deep and insightful. Me thinks you're in denial.

[Bjornsdotter]

15. Nope not at all

...I just don't think that Hillary is the devil.

And yes I think you're buying into the bullshit.

Cheers

[ginchinchili]

31. These kinds of responses hurt your candidate

You should learn to respect other people's opinions that are different from yours. I see this all too often among Republicans. I haven't said anything insulting about Hillary. I'm a great admirer of hers. I've met her, shaken her hand. I jumped up and cheered when she won her New York senate seat. But to pretend her negatives are not an issue in this race is foolhardy, and to attack people who recognize that dynamic only hurts your cause.

[Bjornsdotter]

34. Lol

.....doesn't hurt my candidate at all, he's not running.

Yeah I can tell how much you admire Hillary, you OP says it all.

Cheers

[ginchinchili]

53. Yep, just sidestep the crux of my post

That's the easy way...and you don't even have a dog in this fight. Please, explain how my opening post defines my personal feelings about Hillary Clinton? Never mind, you can't.

[Bjornsdotter]

55. The crux of your post

..is that

Hillary's so unpopular in this country that Repubs use her as an ISSUE TO RUN ON

I just heard a report on NPR about how disappointed Republican voters are with their candidates, but one interesting point that was made is that the one thing to unite them at this point is a Hillary Clinton candidacy.

The Democrats do not need that unnecessary baggage. Republicans are already using her as an issue like the Democrats are using the failed war in Iraq. Not only does it put the White House in jeopardy, but it will also hurt our chances of gaining seats in the House and Senate. I like Hillary, but there are higher priorities to consider than to get another Clinton into the White House.

We have to use our heads and unite behind a candidate who can win. Personally, my money's on Sen. Biden, the candidate who has the best potential to peel away Independents and moderate Republicans, and who simply has the most experience. And it doesn't hurt that he's smart and he's tough. I like his chances.

....You don't want Hillary to be the candidate, you want Biden.

Cheers

[ginchinchili]

58. This time you have it right

Not "Yeah I can tell how much you admire Hillary, you OP says it all." Isn't there enough misleading going on in the country?

[Bjornsdotter]

59. Rofl

:rofl:

[mrigirl]

38. Bjornsdotter-

Hello- Biden created the Violence Against Women Act when domestic violence started getting out of hand in the late eighties and early ninties and Clinton passed it in 1993! As a woman I think he should be applauded. And he's also Pro-Choice. Which I also applaud.

As far that Anita Crap goes- the Senate judiciary Comm. was split down the middle w/ no decision. As Biden as Chairman he originally voted in support of Thomas but later changed his vote to side w/ the Democrats. Only 1 Dem voted w/ the Repubs and it created a fillibuster. The only mistake he made was not interviewing Hill and telling some of the other committee members- which WAS wrong in my opinion. He also shouldn't have made the hearings public either. But overall when you look at Senator Biden's career he has done quite alot for women over the years and I support him.

[Bjornsdotter]

42. Excellent

...I'm happy you've found a candidate you can support, it's sometimes hard to choose this far out.

I, however, would have a very hard time supporting Biden. After observing his behavior during the Anita Hill hearing, he is not at the top of my list.

I disagree the hearing should have been public, if they hadn't been we would not have seen how a woman was treated by an all male group when dealing with the subject of sexual harassment. It was a real eye opener and I suspect that Alan Dixon (IL) has long regretted his vote for Clarence Thomas.

In my opinion, without Anita Hill Carol Moseley Braun would not have been elected....many in Illinois thought that she was unelectable also.

So let's let the voter's choose who is electable and not the OP.

Cheers

[mrigirl]

48. Bjorn

I was a young teenager in '92 and didn't really watch the hearings or really understand it's implications. Yes- you are right about airing those hearings now that I think about it from the other side of the coin. It prompted a national concern for sexual harrassment in the workplace and for me now as a grown woman- I am grateful for.

[beaconess]

83. I agree - Biden completely screwed up the Thomas hearings and, as a result

a Democratic-controlled Judiciary Committee let his nomination go to the floor. Had Biden not been so enamoured of the sound of his own voice and instead behaved like a Chairman (for example, dealing with the Anita Hill allegations in closed session when they first surfaced rather than waiting until it hit the fan and then turning the process into a public spectacle that enabled Thomas to wiggle out of it), we would NOT have Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court today.

If Biden is the nominee, I will support and vote for him. But I will never forget what a disaster he was as Judiciary Chair and that he largely responsible for the disaster on the Supreme Court.

[ginchinchili]

88. Yes, blame Clarence Thomas on Biden. Now there's clear thinking

Yes, we're responsible for the deaths of as many as a million Iraqis, our soldiers are dying over there daily, the entire region could easily come unhinged, Biden is the best qualified for the job and best positioned to win the general election, but you don't want to support him because you don't like the way he handled the Anita Hill hearings. Now that's what I call rational thinking. It's becoming more and more clear how we've lost the last two presidential elections. However, I still have faith because I believe the pragmatic Democrats out-number the narrow-sighted. Let's pray that is the case.

[beaconess]

90. Yes - it is clear thinking to anyone who paid attention to how Biden conducted those hearings

He was IN CHARGE of the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. He refused to listen when people (including other members of the committee) brought him evidence of Thomas' sexual harassment of Anita Hill. Members of the Committee urged him to go into Executive Session to consider the evidence, but he said no. He dug in his heels and did nothing about it until the information became public and he was forced to deal with it - and by then, it was a circus, which he did nothing to tamp down. He bloviated and equivocated and blabbered while allowing Committee Republicans to slander and trash Professor Hill, and then did nothing to counter Clarence Thomas' claim that he was the victim of a "high-tech lynching."

Biden was an absolute DISASTER as the Chair of these hearings. Had he done his job properly, Thomas would never have made it out his Committee. Yes, he is largely responsible for Thomas being on the Supreme Court and I do blame him for it.

As for clear thinking, I suggest that you go back and re-read my post before accusing me of something I didn't say. I said that if Biden is the nominee I WILL support him. But because of the Thomas hearings and many other things (and I've followed Biden's Senate career closely), I do not think he is the best we have to offer and would not make the best nominee.

My thinking is extremely rational, thank you.

[ginchinchili]

92. Perhaps, but not your priorities.

Our soldiers are dying TODAY. Something has to be done TODAY. You can go to any candidate with experience and find something that they handled in a way you didn't like. Should I assume that Hillary is not qualified because of her failure in her last attempt to sell a health care plan of her creation? That's not how I'd approach it, but apparently that's how you would. Perhaps you think it wiser for the Democrats to choose a candidate with little or no experience.

[mrigirl]

102. Ginchinchili- Thanks!

For helping me w/ this one! All of the candidates have something they voted for or said throughout their careers that probably would come into focus. Hillary's gaffe w/ healthcare was pretty bad as well. What about her recent antics w/ Hsu and her campaign funds???? to Me that's pretty damn important. Hillary is bought and paid for- Biden is not. He's been a Senator for 35 yrs- there will be some instances where people didn't like his call. Overall though he'd make a damn fine president!!!!!

[ginchinchili]

109. That's a very valid point. There's always a price to pay for that all that money.

For Hillary and her supporters, the good news is her huge campaign war chest. The bad news is whatever it is she had to promise to get it. Perhaps her supporters think that somehow she's different, and those millions were donated because, darn it, people like her.

Hey, the truth is the truth. In the final analysis, that's all we've got. I enjoy reading your posts. People who spread the truth always get a lot of flack. That's how it's always been. Keep up the good work, mrigirl.

[mrigirl]

110. You too!!!

[beaconess]

112. I have several priorities - of which Iraq is one

You may wish to only look at where a candidate stands on one particular issue today in determining whether you think he is the best choice. That is your prerogative. I look at a broader range of issues. To each his own.

And, again, I suggest that you stop falsely suggesting that I said I would not support Biden. I said no such thing. And your continual, yet inaccurate attempts to tell me what I believe aren't helping your argument. There are several candidates running. Biden is not my first choice, partly for the reason that I raised in this thread, partly for other reasons. You seem to have a problem that anyone doesn't believe that Biden is the most qualified candidate. But that's your problem, not mine.

[ginchinchili]

117. I'm not the one attacking a candidate due to one 30 year old issue

I am not opposed to Hillary because of a failed attempt to create a universal health care system, or any other one thing she's done or hasn't done. I'm sure she's learned something from her past mistakes as I hope we all do, and as I'm sure Sen. Biden has. I don't like every aspect about her, but I generally like Hillary and I'm very glad she won the NY senate seat. I know she wants to pull out of Iraq, but I haven't heard a plan. Just pulling our troops out is not a plan. But she's not alone on that.

I'm opposed to her candidacy because I don't think she can win in the general election. If you haven't gathered that by now then I recommend you giving up; I've failed to make myself understood, though my position seems pretty obvious to me.

I don't even have to reread my posts to state flatly that I have never said that I support Joe Biden only because of one issue, his plan for Iraq. Where did you get that from? I can only conclude that you hadn't read my posts very carefully. But if you wish to deny that Iraq is the biggest issue of this campaign, that's ok. It may not be the biggest issue with you, and that's fine, but generally speaking it is the defining issue of this presidential race.

And I don't have a problem with your opinion of Biden. But don't get on here responding to a post countering what I or someone else says and then expect us to remain mum. That's not how these message boards work. You gave one 30 year old reason why you're not supporting Joe Biden and I responded by questioning your priorities. What did you expect? Of all the issues of the day, and I used Iraq as an example because life is important to me and life is being snuffed out every day over there, you choose to focus on a 30 year old senate proceeding, though important, that I find to pale in importance at this point in time to the atrocities taking place in Iraq. Silly me. In this post you reiterate your original reason for not supporting Biden and now you add "partly for other reasons." This may be a subjective observation, but it doesn't sound like I'm the one having difficulty making my argument.

[beaconess]

120. The fact that you think Clarence Thomas' confirmation is a "30 year old issue" speaks volumes

nt

[robcon]

9. Hillary is the front-runner. Of course she attracts Repug disdain.

Making something more of that is silly - perhaps a desperate attempt to raise it as if it were an issue on the Democratic side.

[pnwmom]

10. Correction: she's so unpopular among RETHUGs.

Barring election fraud -- which is potentially a huge problem -- I think any of our candidates, including HRC, can win.

[ginchinchili]

13. Count on some election fraud

But if we don't win over some Independents and moderate Republicans you can look forward to another 4 - 8 years of a Republican in the White House. Poopoo that all you want, but any serious political analyst will tell you that much. So if you want to pretend about Hillary, just say that Independents and moderates really like Hillary. It will help bolster your fantasy.

[AZBlue]

18. Yeah, 'cause the GOP never did that before.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[illinoisprogressive]

19. Hillary looses the white house and the congress due to the blind who think it's 1995.

[L0oniX]

20. Hillary Clinton ...the best lobbyist wh0re in the country!

Lobbyist influenced authoritarians suck!

[Bitwit1234]

22. Here we go again

I have asked, but I think I will send an email to Skinner et al and ask them to have a DU Journal just for the Hillary bashers, it is beginning to get sickening.

[Andromeda]

23. Thank you.

You have just reinforced my conviction that Hillary Clinton will be the next President of the U.S.

Don't let that stop you from voting for Biden though. I'm sure Hillary will make him an integral part of her administration.

[mrigirl]

29. Go ginchinchili!!!

Posts like these keep Biden on everyone's tongue! And keep him on the front page of DU. Good work!!
Glad to see that at least some people are beginning to understand the implications and the seriousness of the Dems losing this election because our candidate is un-electable to the nation as a whole. Biden can cross those boundaries and has been able to gather support as a Senator from many a Republican over the years. He is our only hope of a bi-partisan government that can finally get some thing done in the White House and not create a stalemate. Do people really think that Hillary is going to make all these wonderful changes w/ out the help of at least a few Republicans along the way??? No way!!! They hate her, Obama, and Edwards. Joe- they might be willing to tolerate and work with. They have for 35 yrs!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Joe Biden Has As Much Chance Of Becoming Pres As Michael Vick Has Of Being The United Way Athlete Of

The Year

[mrigirl]

49. I don't believe all the polls you see

Biden has alot of support underground. We'll see what happens between now and election day. he just might surprise you- like he did when he was elected Senator at 29 and the complete and total underdog stole the show! I won't count him out until the end.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. He's At One Percent

Even if the polls were off by 100% he would still be at 2%...

[ginchinchili]

89. Good. That means he's at Clinton's and Carter's starting point.

That way he'll be a fresh candidate by the time people start really tuning into this primary. Thanks DemocratSinceBirth.

[Yukari Yakumo]

105. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Uh, moron, people are really tuning into the primaries.

Biden's chances are as good as Chris Crocker's chances of getting the RePuke nom.

[ginchinchili]

106. Ah, name calling. Impressive. So...who are you supporting?

And by the way, just because you are paying attention does not mean most voters are, because most voters couldn't tell you who all is running. I'd say in order to qualify as "tuned in" one has to know who's running. Name calling only reflects poorly on you and the candidate you support.

[mrigirl]

103. We shall see my friend who comes out in the end!!

Don't underestimate Biden- he may just sneak right up on you!!!

[Cameron27]

30. Oh heavens no, if Obama or Edwards or even Biden

were leading the pack, the gop would never make any of them an issue to 'run against.':eyes:

[MasonJar]

35. There are not going to be many Americans voting for GOPers in '08.

That is my prediction. As to Hillary and the White House, if she is so unpopular, why is she leading? Stop putting our candidates down all the time. Instead contrast and compare them with the Pugs running. What a bunch of losers.

[ginchinchili]

54. Because in our system we have a primary first

If you don't like it, complain about our Founding Fathers. And name calling only discredits you, making it hard for anyone to take you seriously. As for your opening statement, there are always a lot of Americans who vote Republican. To believe otherwise further weakens your hand and strengthens theirs.

[Old and In the Way]

36. Yeah, those Republicans sure hated all that peace and prosperity of the 90s.

They much prefer to keep the country on the track they we are on. If the Republicans hate Hillary so much, I just may have to vote for her in the primaries. Afterall, what has a Republican voter been right about in the past 40 years or so?

[sampsonblk]

40. We don't need to peel away anything from that rotten apple

We just need to have a competent campaign and we will win. Check the numbers again. There aren't many GOP voters left. Thank you.

[ginchinchili]

56. Could you please show me these numbers?

I'd be interested. And not all Republicans and Independents are rotten, and the ones that are sound much like you in your post.

[sampsonblk]

80. Certainly

GOP is losing ground in party-affiliation polling - MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17150019/

I picked just this one because its well done. All the polls are saying the same thing: voters are deserting the GOP in droves. The nation is no longer divided, as it was six years ago. People are sick to death of republicans.

[ginchinchili]

91. In droves?

Here's a quote from your article:

But for 2006, Democrats pulled away, leading Republicans by 3.9 points, with 34.3 percent identifying themselves as Democrats, 30.4 percent as Republicans and 33.9 percent as independents. Thought significant, 3.9 is hardly droves. Let's not get over-confident.

The important number is the increase in Independents. The article does go on to say that in the gap between who Independents are leaning toward, Democrats or Republicans, Independents are increasingly favoring the Democrats. This is all excellent news, and certainly understandable. But it's inaccurate to say that people are leaving the Republican Party in droves.

This brings me to the primary point: though Independents are currently favoring Democrats, Independents tend not to favor the current front runner of the Democratic pack, Hillary Clinton. A majority of those crucial votes will be thrown away or worse, will vote for Giuliani, who is considered a moderate Republican and is popular among Independents. Joe Biden nullifies that problem and can go toe to toe with Rudy Giuliani far better than any other Democratic candidate.

[sampsonblk]

98. Independents tend not to favor...Hillary Clinton?

Could you please show me these numbers?

[ginchinchili]

99. I find it hard to believe you aren't aware of this.

It's a given, but there's plenty to back it up. However, there will be many--perhaps yourself included--who won't believe any evidence until the train wreck actually occurs on election night. Of course, then it's too late.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20237246/

[sampsonblk]

100. I asked you for numbers, not fears.

Here, I will help you out:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=1694406

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1229053,00.html

[ginchinchili]

104. You have to do more than just look at the pictures

"The problem is her political baggage: A whopping 49
percent of the public says they have an unfavorable view of
Clinton compared to 47 percent who say they hold her in high
regard, according to a Gallup Poll survey Aug. 3-5.

Her negative ratings are higher than those of her husband,
former President Clinton, former President George H.W. Bush
and 2004 Democratic nominee John Kerry at the end of their
campaigns.

A candidate's unfavorability scores almost always climb during
campaigns. If the pattern holds, Clinton has a historically
high hurdle to overcome.

For Hillary, who has been on the scene for so long and has had
perception of her so ground in ... there's no question it will
be really hard for her to change perceptions," said
Democratic pollster David Eichenbaum, who represents moderate
Democrats in GOP-leaning states.

Her baggage is heaviest in those states. Private polling
conducted in Colorado, for example, shows that Clinton's
negative rating is 16 percentage points higher than her
favorability score.

Colorado is a state Democrats hope to win in the 2008
presidential race. It also has an open Senate seat, with the
Republican incumbent opting not to seek another term and
Democrats targeting it."


"In more than 40 interviews, Democratic candidates,
consultants and party chairs from every region pointed to
internal polls that give Clinton strikingly high unfavorable
ratings in places with key congressional and state
races."

These are the actual people who are involved in the Democratic
Party on the state level. Their opinions do matter and are
more difficult to spin than any additional numbers that you
would have me posts.

You need to come out of your denial. Rest assured Hillary is
fully aware these points I'm making. The difference is, she
thinks she can overcome them. I don't.

There, would you like me to fluff you pillow while I'm at it?

[sampsonblk]

108. Hahahaha! That was good.

No, friend. I don't need my pillow fluffed.

Mrs. Clinton is well ahead in the national polls, despite your valid points, and the electoral math looks great for her. I am also concerned that she may drag down some of the state and local races. No argument from me on that. But the general election is not even in question.

But as the election nears, I also firmly believe that GOP voters (the few that are left) are going to stay home out of frustration. In particular, the fundies that the GOP relies on will not come out for either of the top GOP candidates.

So we will be fine, no matter who wins our nomination - as long as they run a competent campaign this time.

[goodgd_yall]

41. Well, she's in the lead, that's why

If Obama, Edwards, Biden, or any other Democratic candidate takes the lead, that person will be an ISSUE TO RUN ON as well.

Do you really want a democratic candidate that Repugs feel comfortable with? I'd say there's something wrong with that candidate.

[calteacherguy]

44. That's a great point! Shocking I've never seen it expressed here before! nt

[mrigirl]

46. yes- a little bit!!!

If we don't have someone as president who the repugs can work with( they don't have to love each other) then how on earth do you think we will get these major issues we have with foreign policy, domestics and the environment solved or even started??? don't you see it's going to take a President that appeals to EVERYONE- to get this country changed??? Aren't we a Democracy???? Aren't we supposed to work together in government and not fight each other? That's not what Congress and the Senate was created for. we need to work together!!!!! Otherwise the U.S. is seriously screwed and we run around in circles chasing each other until the end. What a waste of valuable time.

[ginchinchili]

60. You speak the raw truth, my friend

It's not the fun truth. It's not the hip truth or the feel-good truth. You give us the easier-to-ignore, difficult truth. We've gotten so divisive that we've forgotten what it takes to make things work. If we can't get people to come together from both sides of the aisle then our country's future will get progressively bleaker. I don't count of Republicans to lead the charge, so us Democrats are going to have to exercise our wisdom to make it happen. There are many here among us who don't seem too willing to really want to try. Those who do will have to find each other. The same holds true throughout the world, if we are to survive and make this a better place. We have to learn to put our selfish pettiness aside and base our decisions on the common good.

[mrigirl]

67. Ginchinchili- know what really sucks?

Is that I fear that we are in the minority here w/ our opinion and the rest of the Dems just don't see it. And it will be too late. And everyone else will realize it after the election is lost and we have another Republican goofball running the show. And things will get even worse then they are now.
Biden is the only one, I'll tell you, that can put a stop to this downward spiral the Repubs have put us into. He's strong and doesn't back down. And most of all he talks to us Americans like we matter and tells it like it is. And of course- the policy changes he wants to make are genious and would work.

[ginchinchili]

71. Yep, Republicans aren't the only ones with blinders on

Americans have gotten complacent and selfish. We want everything our way or no way. We'll either wake up and change, or the change will be forced on us in ways we didn't think were possible here in the United States.

But it's still early and we must believe and think positive. Remember that Clinton and Carter were doing about as well as Biden at this point in their elections. People are starting to take notice of Joe Biden, and although Hillary Clinton has some impressive attributes going for her, there are a lot of Democrats who are uncomfortable making Hillary the Democratic nominee. The more they learn about Joe Biden, the less a Hillary Clinton candidacy makes sense. Democrats are sick and tired of going to bed depressed on election night and that's what will happen if Hillary gets the nomination. Believe!

[ginchinchili]

57. You've obviously missed the point

Of course the Republicans will try to tear down which ever Democrat wins the primary. But Hillary stirs in them something that the other candidates don't. If you don't realize this, you haven't been keeping up the the political dynamics in this country over the past 15 years. You probably only hear what you want to hear from your Democratic friends. There are very strong feelings against Sen. Clinton in much of the United States. Can she win the Democratic primary? Sure, but she won't be successful in a general election, and I think it would be very unwise for the Democrats to gamble to find out. There's too much at stake. Way too much.

[beaconess]

84. She stirs this up in them because they know she can beat them!

The same reason they were so apoplectic over Bill Clinton. How dare that non-Washington, liberal, Negro-loving hick not only THINK he can beat the patrician George W. Bush, but he actually DID it, then proceeded to eat the Republicans' lunch every chance he got. He completely enraged them. I think they feel the same about Hillary - how DARE she! But they wouldn't be so worked up about her if they weren't AFRAID of her.

I haven't decided whom to support in the primaries - I could support just about any of them - but I've been around long enough to know that the Republicans go hardest after the ones that scare them the most. And Hillary scares them to death! For me, that's not a reason NOT to support someone!

[ginchinchili]

93. I suggest you not confuse the spouses.

If you'll remember, the animosity toward Hillary started long before any of them ever dreamed she'd run for office, much less president, so it's inaccurate to suggest that they hate her because they think she can beat them.

Karl Rove is a lot of things, and one is that he's very politically astute. He been expressing that "fear" of Hillary for quite a while now. If you think he was just openly expressing the apprehension that Republicans better gear up because Hillary Clinton is in town is naive. He wants Hillary to be the candidate because he's confident that the Republicans can beat her. That's how Karl Rove works, he's done it before, and now Guiliani has picked up on that. If we want to win this thing we have to be smarter than Karl Rove.

[sampsonblk]

81. Exactly

They do this every time.

[StrongBad]

45. So?

In response we can use Bush and the past 8 years as something to run on.

We win.

[antiimperialist]

47. Hillary is so unpopular that if the elections were today, she would win the POPULAR vote

Right?

[William769]

51. Talk about some Mississippi mud slinging!

:wow:

P.S. You would be a bigger hit over at freerepublic.com

[ginchinchili]

61. Mud slinging?

You don't know what mud slinging is.

[LittleClarkie]

52. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday

That said something like Committee to STOP HILLARY, which was in big letters.

Never quite understood why they have always had such a bug up their butt about her and Bill. Is it because the two of them beat the Republicans at their own game? Is that what they can't forgive?

I'm not big fan of hers, but I don't hate her.

[ginchinchili]

63. You recognize what I'm trying to convey here

You won't see bumper stickers like that about any other candidate. And I agree with you on where the hatred stems from. The Clintons outsmarted the Republicans and it drove them absolutely nuts. They obviously have it out for the Clintons. But it is quite strange and uncomfortable to me. Their loathing seems unnatural, poisonous. Clinton was a fine president and Hillary has done nothing that deserves such unmitigated venom, and much to be admired about.

But the fact is, it's had an effect. I get anti-Hillary emails from people who know I'm a Democrat and don't do it to get my goat. It's more like they assume that, even though I'm a Democrat, I certainly can't like Hillary because no one likes Hillary. But I do! But people on this board feel that you either have to support her or you hate her. It sounds as it the Republican hate campaign against Hillary has had an effect on many Democrats as well. Now they over-react to anything less than praise. Like I said, it's poisonous.

[zulchzulu]

62. My GOP RNC friend has been saying this for months

I know a lot of Clinton supporters apparently don't see the OBVIOUS, but not only would the Republican base get out an vote against the Clinton Family but would also disastrously put into play races where Democrats would have won by a lot into hard-fought races due to the incredible amount of Republicans who would vote straight Republican in droves.

It's an absolute trainwreck disaster for the Democratic Party if Clinton is the nominee. It wouldn't be negative coattails...it would be concrete blocks on our shoes as we're thrown into the lake.

That said, support your candidate. I'll certainly fight for mine.

[ginchinchili]

64. Well said and on the mark.

Thank you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. That's Why Clinton Was The Only Dem To Win The Presidency In The Last Thirty Years

And the only Dem to be re-elected in his own right since FDR...

Hillary will destroy her Pug opponent like Mike Tyson destroyed Michael Spinks:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Ypfh5xggk


on edit- and nice job of masquerading opinion as fact...

[rodeodance]

65. sic'em!

[ginchinchili]

66. In the wink of a young girl's eye...

[alittlelark]

68. uh, yeah,,,, whatever

she is not my choice but she's a hell of a lot better than the choices I see in your future.

[ginchinchili]

72. In my future????

[provis99]

69. well Clinton's obviously unpopular with plenty of Independents and Democrats, too

Doesn't the disdain she receives on DU tend to indicate that there are plenty of Democrats who just don't like her? Maybe rather than just labeling everyone who doesn't like her candidacy as a Hillary-basher, and then assume she's somehow going to pull a rabbit out of her hat and win, maybe her supporters should recognize reality: she is unpopular in most of the country. The only thing she might win is the primary, and its crash and burn time from there. I support one of the minor candidates, but even I realize there's no way he's going to win. Hillary supporters seem to think that in the face of overwhelming evidence of unpopularity, she's somehow going to win, because they wish it so. Fine, support Hillary, but also recognize that if she's the candidate, the Democrats just lost the general election.

[ginchinchili]

73. Precisely. Hillary won't make it to the White House

If she means that much to Democrats that her winning the primary is worth losing the general election over, then they'd better be prepared for what is in store for this country under Rudy Giuliani. I'm counting on enough Democrats to see the inevitable and change course. It happens all the time in these primaries. Our fellow Dems want to win and that will be the determining factor.

[William769]

107. What is the ratio od DU to the American public?

The disdain on DU means absolutely nothing. Nice try though.

[superkia]

70. The best part is the Clinton supporters are so rude and hateful...

and the people that may have voted for her if she got the nomination may just be ran off by the hate. I never see them present issues on why Clinton should have the American publics support, what makes her the best choice for the country. Its almost like a bands fan club that defends her because they like her but her music sucks and they don't dare play it so we can make a judgment. Keep feeling like she is nominated already and ruin your candidates chances, go ahead!

[ginchinchili]

74. So true. If we don't support Hillary we're traitors

Sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it?

[juajen]

78. I have never heard a Hillary supporter call anyone a traitor.

Please prove your allegations.

[ginchinchili]

95. I state my position and I'm attacked like a rooster in a fox den

That's my proof, but you won't be able to see that. I was using something called hyperbole. If you can't recognize the over-the-top attacks on this board against anyone who dares to suggest that Hillary Clinton can't win, then you're obviously not looking for proof of any kind. You're simply looking for another angle to pile on, and if that's how Hillary's supporters prefer to defend her candidacy, then just keep it up. Personally, I think it only proves one of the major points of my argument. Hillary Clinton is too divisive. She won't succeed at winning a general election, and even if she could she'd never get anything done, the Republicans would see to it. She would further divide this nation and I think we're divided enough as it is. There is also real reason to be concerned that she would hurt the Democrats chances of increasing our numbers in the House and Senate. It's a losing proposition for the Democrats.

[HooptieWagon]

96. Ha!

How many posts have I read stating that if you won't support Hillary you are in favor of the Repubs? Sound familiar? Quite frankly, I find many of Hillary's supporters to be every bit as offensive as her platform - and she won't be getting my vote.

[ginchinchili]

97. Thanks, HooptieWagon. Not all her supporters are like that...

but more are than for any other candidate. We should be able to debate our points without getting nasty about it. Getting down into the mud only serves to make your candidate look bad.

[eridani]

75. The absolute worst thing about Rethug propaganda?

They make it seem like she is actually liberal. They call her huge proposed gift to the health insurance industry "socialized medicine."

Doing anything, including choosing our candidates, on the basis of how Rethugs might react is absolutely stupid, though.

[ginchinchili]

76. Repubs won't like any Democratic candidate, however....

it's not only fair, but necessary to ask the question, who has the best chance of winning in the general election? Hillary's chances are very poor because the animosity toward her is so deep and widespread. Go beyond the Democratic base and her support drops off rather sharply. Her odds make her not worth the risk.

[eridani]

77. Her Dem supporters are mainly going by name recognition

Also nostalgia for the less fucked up Clinton 90s. Actual members of the base don't much care for her pro-corporate attitude.

[BenDavid]

79. Gee, do ya think maybe the repubs are so

afraid they have no candidate that can win in 08 they will do or say anything? No better way then to go on a program and say that HRC is soooooooooooooooooooooo un-popular in the country that she will be an issue....Well excuse me but I thought that was how elections are run. My candidate runs against your candidate, and my candidate takes issue against your candidate and what he's running on...

Would like to say that in the lastest CNN/Gallup poll HRC had goen over the 50% mark in favorability and had dropped below the 40% mark in negatives. 39% to be exact.

Ben David

[Major Hogwash]

82. Too-fuckin'-shay! This is the absolute truth, and those who fail to heed this warning are doomed.

To another 4 years of a Republican neocon President.

They've been pushing for Hillary to run for Pres for 4 years.

Who has?

THE RIGHT!

Tim Russert, Chris Matthews, and every other politico bobble head on teevee!

Why?

Because she will bring so much baggage to the election, she will be the easiest Democrat for them to beat!

[Evergreen Emerald]

85. It is not going to matter who we have running

the republicans own the media and will put any other candidate in the same position that Clinton is in...remember they are the ones that threw such ugly lies against the wall and some of them stuck.

And of course there is diebold.

[allisonthegreat]

94. Point of interest

Hillary probably will make the best president, however that doesn't keep the GOP beast from using her candidacy as a big negative.

[Perry Logan]

101. The OP seems blissfully unaware of the polls.

Or maybe he's getting his information from Rasmussen, whose results always seem to resemble a Republican's wet dream.

[William769]

115. Ignorance is bliss.

[ginchinchili]

119. I'll take your word for it.

[PDenton]

114. I disagree

I think most people who wouldn't vote for hillary, wouldn't vote for a Democrat. At most, Hillary will partially energize their base. However, I will say Hillary should not be an early option, that might be a mistake. Alot of other Democrat candidates don't have the same base energizing effects. With Edwards, being a white southerner and an onstensibly religious man, the Republicans will be hard to energize the base against him- at most you'll only be able to pin "sleae lawyer" on him, and that won't stick because he won't let it. Obama is pretty much the same, the only people he'll energize on the right are racist, and the Republicans as a whole won't be energized by overt racism.

[MODemocrat]

121. The repubs are afraid of her

Hillary unpopular? tell another one before that one gets cold.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ginchinchili]

122. You're naive.

Even she knows this dynamic exists. She's not naive.

[jillan]

124. The Repugs are drooling to run against her - just like we are drooling

to run against Rudy-tootie.

[Enrique]

123. omg!!!!!!!!

npr reports the standard line on Hillary!

this is hugh!!!!!!!

[mistertrickster]

125. Hell, yes. When the radical left AND the radical right don't like her, you've got a problem. nt