Watching Bill Maher tonight, I realized why we can't get any traction on Bush...

[WCGreen]

Now stop, I don't mean running over him time and time again, I mean that we can never seem to make anything stick, make any headway against the corruption and graft and incompetence...

JG stated that it was the fault of the main streams press that nobody cares about all these examples of crimes and malfeasance and the whole shebang that is the Bush Administration and his corrupt lackeys...

She listed a litany of all sorts of transgressions, The Blackwater mess, the GOA audits, the FEMA Trailers, and so on and so on...

She said if they covered all of that as much as they covered Britney...

Well, everyone was nodding heads and agreeing with her and sort of threw up there arms because it was the big excuse...

People are naturally looking for the big excuse to absolve themselves of any blame for what is going on...

And right now, the press is the scapegoat...

If only we had real journalists, the people would know and all of this nightmare would go away...

The problem isn't the Mainstream Media...

Because every issue that she brought up I heard about in the Main Stream media...

Every bit of it...

And then I had my moment...

Perhaps it is due to the sheer volume of corruption and malfeasance that is going on that people simply are being overloaded...

Think about it...

We had the guy on the ropes before 9/11...

And then, everything did change...

9/11 gave these goons a story to hide under...

And they did it well...

They just did whatever they wanted and always, always, to the operative, fell back on some variation of the 9/11 theme...

No matter what entered the national debate it sooner, more often than later, ended up being bracketed by 9/11...

The bad guys have simply overwhelmed the system...

There are not enough hours in the day to catch them all so we can't catch any of them as they keep piling it on us...

I don't know if this makes sense, but perhaps there is just too much corruption and people just can't process it all...

To top it off, we don't have a story to bracket our disapproval...

Ever time we think we get one, bam...

It's 9/11 all over again...

I don't know what to say but just look at the overload we have on this board every day...

Back in the 90's, it was all about blowjobs...

Now, well, it's variations on the 9/11 theme...

We need to get a story to blanket the details so that people can maybe come to grips with what is happening...

They didn't come up with that expression the devil is in the details for nothing...

Well, that's my two cents, well maybe twenty cents...

I had a lot on my mind...

[cspanlovr]

1. Plus, they all saw what happened to Dan Rather and got the message.

If they could do it Dan (44 years with CBS) they could do it them. They all said to themselves "don't rock the boat, I've got a fat paycheck to protect." Lapdogs of Democracy.

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. Preying upon Personal Convenience, the lynchpin of the US citizen...

...is exactly why they must be stopped. At each and every increment.

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Your post is excellent, but a new Bin Laden video is about to torpedo it.

These people are professional businessmen, and it would take opposite and greater action to stop them, where it counts, in breaking financial deals, erasing their new laws, stepping in and getting the army etc. to help in New Orleans, etc.

They are in the seat of power. So long as the Democrats are unwilling to =act=, there will be no change.

[WCGreen]

4. But they are acting...

They are trying...

It's just so much that any good that comes out gets lost in all the noise...

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. After the 2000 election, I would have hoped that they would bite back hard.

At every, every instance. That's the only thing that is going to dislodge them, is complete, absolute opposition.

Kucinich is the only candidate who is even close to talking about and taking on this problem.

[krkaufman]

49. Right. Where are the news reports on the degree of Republican obstruction.

The stories contrasting the Republicans previous threats to outlaw the filibuster to how much they've used the filibuster since the Democrats took over the Senate.

[valerief]

5. The sociopaths with money own the sociopaths with guns and bloodlust.

The sociopaths with money own the atomic bomb and lethal poisons.

It's quite a bit of threatening crap to find yourself up against. You know you need to see these sociopaths overtaken, and you need to trust others to help you.

And then you learn history teaches you revolutions have been successful before, but the assholery starts all over again.

So you count how many years you might have left in your life and take a gamble that you may not have to risk yours to live out your years not in abject poverty.

[superkia]

6. Too many people have it in their minds that the republicans..

are the only politicians influenced and controlled by money. Its like people refuse to take a step back from being a party affiliate and look at all of them without being biased in their views. Everyone including the guests on Bill Mahers show tonight have fallen for the Democrats are spineless or weak. That is not the issue, both sides are playing a game with our future so they can ALL keep their power and wealth. Not every one of them is corrupt but until America stops kidding themselves and giving the democrats a free pass for taking part in all this, we will continue to fail as a country. How is it that so many people dont get it? Look at the money they recieve, they like having the elections unfair and ran on money because it keeps the crooked ones in power and wealthy. The honest ones that stand for the people will never win because they don't get dirty money because they aren't dirty.

I wish everyone would look into this a little more before the primary vote because I think too much is riding on this election, not to.

America please wake up, our children's future is at stake!

[mrigirl]

19. Superkia-

That is why I support Biden because I know he's not one of them. With his pathetic amount of money you know he isn't bought and paid for!
Also I don't understand how Hillary supporters aren't just a LITTLE BIT concerned that $850,000 of her campaign money came from a crook- Hsu. And even though he's been caught no one seems to care that Hillary was involved. Shouldn't stuff like raise a few eyebrows??? About how SHE'S bought and paid for??? GEEZ!!!!

[question everything]

8. The last few days were the worst

OJ Simpson and OJ Simpson all day. At least with Britney they would keep her in the "entertainment" section. But with OJ, just as it was with Anna Nicole - this was the only item.

Even with the Jena marches and today not releasing Michael Bell - is this the only topic to cover a whole hour of news?

It is back to the Networks where, in 20 min, or so, they do cover a lot. Has anyone realized that Equatorial Africa is under flood? An area usually associated with drought?

[WCGreen]

9. The information is out there....

All of it...

But if you are passive about your news, then you'll just shake your head when and move on to the next...

[SirBlackAdder]

11. Clinton signed the bill allowing News agentcies to go for profit

He also allowed CLEARCHANNEL to gobble up half the radio stations. YOu have to google it to get the details.

Its sick to watch. I can tell you, the right non -neocons do not like the MSM either. We need a left-right web station. Like the old crossfire, gets more ratings, takes on off-topic topics on both sides of the isle.

Clinton or god knows who, its gonna be almost as bad as SS *satan spawn in there now.\. But not AS bad, it cant be... So instead of a pile of dogshit, we will get a smaller pile of cow shit. It will be a step up, even if ever so slight. We will never get a liberal, and the republicans will never get Buchanan or Ron Paul. Its just the way of the world.

[WCGreen]

12. That started happening back in the 90's when they relaxed the

so-called Do-opoly (sp) rules for radio station ownership...

It use to be that you could only own a certain percentage of a market...

That changed in the early 90s...

It just took a while for Clear Channel to buy up all the mom and pop radio stations around the country...

[rodeodance]

35. Jim Lehrer news hr. did a good story on the Africa floods last evening

[stillcool]

10. we've gotten to this place...

in stages. I think it's all about human nature..all very understandable. Protecting you and yours from they and theirs..on many different levels.

[ginchinchili]

13. And what an excellent 2 cents worth it is

I agree with you. When someone asks me why I think Bush should be impeached, I hardly know where to start. And if I do start, at some point the other person will start arguing one of the endless points I've brought up and I don't get around to wrapping up my case. It's so big that you just can't get your arms around it. And it's not just the number of things he's done, he's like a cancer that has spread to so many different areas, that it's just too complicated to cut out. We impeach Bush and Cheney takes his place. Do we impeach Cheney too? Is that possible? How will it look if we impeached Bush and Cheney and made Pelosi president (I think that would be the chain of command)? Is there any doubt that Bush would be able to stonewall long enough until he's out of office? What would happen then? Would the people support us? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, most of that should be ignored and the Constitution followed, but I don't know how we'd get the ball rolling. I think the AG has to appoint a special prosecutor. How likely is that? We haven't been able to get Bush to do anything, how can we pull off an impeachment? Such a massive undertaking. If I had a vote in the matter, I'd say do it.

[WCGreen]

15. That's about it in a nutshell...

And they aren't standing still...

They continue to rape and pillage Iraq and grab as much cash as they can before the term is over...

[mrigirl]

21. Ginchinchili-

I agree w/ impeaching Bush but I think we should go after Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz for what they've done during this administration. Biden has called them the "axis of evil" and he says in his book it was these guys that called the shots and F***** everything up. I think they should be charged and tried. Bush also.
Impeaching Bush means you have to impeach Cheney also (prob Cheney first)and that could take some time and it will create such a mess it will detract away from important crisis going on right now- like Iran and so forth. I think Congress is afraid to start that now with so much other stuff going on they need to focus on- like Cheney trying to start another war. Biden had said that this admin will be held accountable - criminal charges will be pressed but an impeachment process right now isn't a good idea. I tell you if a repub wins the next election- Congress still had better press charges against these chumps or I will be very po'd. This kind of crap CAN'T HAPPEN and it will happen again if our government doesn't step up and make an example. Christ- we impeached Clinton over a lousy b.j.- what the hell will it take to go after Bush and Cheney???? If the Dems don't do this they are spineless and I'm getting the hell out of here and moving to Europe. I refuse to live in a country that is run like this.

[shimmergal]

50. Yes, it's too big, and maybe too entrenched

for normal political action and speech to get much traction.

What we need is a STEALTH strategy. We're smarter than they are; unfortunately we're too transparent too. We need a secret order, sort of like the Bene Gesserit in Dune, to figure out and act to siphon off their power and money, in ways they wouldn't even recognize until too late.

Anyone have any ideas on how to start?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

14. I have grappled with this myself...

And I think you're onto something...

It is just overwhelming, indeed...

And they keep harping 9/11, 9/11 etcetera ad nauseum...

Just too damn much to process...

Well put...

K&R

[pretzel4gore]

16. the movie 'wall street' was misleading....

i've heard so much about 'wall street' and had the impression it was an indictment of something that just warnt right in the world, but as i watched it, i thought how reassuring this is! Honesty is the best policy, the early bird gets the worm, 2 wrongs don't make a right etc. Oliver Stone was telling a vastly corrupt culture in 1985, that it was really a good country and only alien misfits (like gecko) who turned truth inside out were ruining it for an otherwise good good GOOD people ie the American people. 'Wall Street' is an ok movie, well acted, good story, and justice prevails in the end, but it lies, and does so on purpose. Somehow 'wall street' glorified the very thing it was in theory condemning! Being a rich, brutal nudge wink player in the 'markets' was so cool yada yada yada....in the early 80's, several tv shows did a similar thing. One of them 'Threes company' famously mocked the youthful swinger lifestyle of eager beaver middle class kids out on their own- but the moral of the story ALWAYS WAS that sex, drugs, probably r and r too, were/are bad. That's bad, as in you do not indulge. This at the same time the show flaunted sex, made hypocrisy a normalty and yada yada yada. Our culture is formed too much by media like tv and movies- but the ONLY critics seem to be the very types who values reflect in these entertainments! Wall Street was a dishonest movie, in the real world, in that, for junyer bush, making a million on harken oil insider trading was ok, nudge wink. Ayn Rand is anti christian, but her disciple, alan greenspan (also see milton friedman/leo strauss) was running the US fed Reserve starting in 1985, and falwel, dobson, the catholic bishops etc said nothing. And while christian values are supposedly the underpining of western culture, 'greed is good' nudge wink(!?) was the main message of the time...
No fukkin wonder george bush the youngster is America greatest stateman!

[Trajan]

17. GREAT post ..... But I must be really fucking weird ....

I have no idea who JG is .....

Am I the only one who doesn't pay $70 a month for cable ?

I haven't watched Maher since he left ABC ....

[WCGreen]

18. Jennine Garafolo....

[hvn_nbr_2]

33. I had no idea either

I wish people here would just tell us what the heck they're saying. But asking for that is kind of like whistling in the wind. People seem think that everybody is watching their TV over their shoulder and listening in on the cranium monitor that Bush has attached to their heads so we know exactly what they're thinking about.

[WCGreen]

42. I'm sorry....

THere were about seven or eight posts about her being on Mahers show last night...

I assumed people had seen them...

[Joanne98]

20. I think the MSM has a lot to do with it! They covered these things BUT

they don't try very hard to make them stick in the minds of the viewer. For example. They will spend 2 minutes on a Bush scandal story and state just the bare facts. They will run the 2 min bare facts segment during a time when nobodys watching. they will get these dead pan looks on their faces like, (this is boring but they're making us report it) Now off to the fun stuff, "How about that Britney)(smiling)Or some of them will even throw in a defense. (we don't know all the facts) Look at how they're reporting the Ted Stevens story? (BORING and LITTLE) They will report something only once. Just so you can't say they didn't. they never have any images to go along with the story. THEY ARE DOING THIS ON PURPOSE! The MSM is PRO_BUSH all the way. I don't care what they say! I hope Dan Rather exposes the whole rotten system and tells all the secrets.

[emmadoggy]

29. I totally agree with you.

The difference is exactly what you say. They report the story once, with little fanfare, just to put in on the record that they reported it - and then nothing. No follow up, nothing. The stories they REALLY want us turned on to are huge productions with big, banner slogans and eye-popping graphics. The stories are repeated over and over and followed up on in every detail. They impart that sort of breathless excitement in their delivery. They have "knowledgable guests" on-set to discuss all of the gory details and give their "expert analysis". IF they ever do any of that with a Bush scandal, the "expert guest" is someone who ho-hums the whole thing and says the whole thing is overblown, or is justified because of this, this and that, or that it might push the limits of the law but doesn't go beyond it - in other words, "nothing to see here folks, move along".

The media isn't 100% of the problem, but it's definitely a huge part of it.

[WCGreen]

43. But the media has always been like this...

Except for a brief time in the late 50's and early 60's, the media has always played to the lowest common denominator...

Look what they did the Edward R. Murrow, made him do celebrity interviews...

It's always been this way it just seems more because off the 24/7 news channels...

[Klukie]

22. Then we just need to disarm 911......

The only way I see to do that is by exposing the PNAC. I am consistently amazed at the number of folks who have never heard of this gang. Sure, all of us here are well aware of them and their agenda, but those on the outside have no idea. People refuse to believe that our government would use an event such as 911 to push an ideology. The PNAC completely detroys that thought. The devil is in the details, but unless we are able to disseminate those details the larger story will never be revealed.

[knitter4democracy]

23. I think there's also this huge disconnect:

People just can't believe that their government is really that bad. I think that's why the Congress keeps going along--they just can't believe that we're on the road to fascism. Not America! Not those nice people they work with every day! No, that doesn't happen here. It's only when something hits them personally when they start questioning and wondering--and then they hit up against that disconnect. I know too many who really cannot believe all this has happened. Our government is really losing billions and doesn't know where it's going? We're really killing that many innocents in our name? Our government really let all those people die in NOLA and the Gulf Coast and is now using Blackwater to keep them out of their homes? Not America. It can't happen here.

That's our biggest problem--that damn disconnect.

[emmadoggy]

31. I posted above

that I still believe that the media is a huge part of the problem - but what you just said is what I think is the other major piece of the puzzle.

First, people aren't dialed in because they are so busy trying to keep their heads above water, just trying to get through their own life. Second, we have a media that has them rather hypnotized and gives them only the barest information about the really important issues. Which leads to problem number three - it means that people have to be more pro-active in getting their news and information, seeking out more sources on the internet and so on. Which brings us back to problem number one - people are too busy and absorbed in their lives for that.

Which brings us to your point - IF, IF you actually can get some of this through to someone, they are then so shocked and stunned being confronted with the truth of what's going on in their name while they try to muddle through life, that they can't wrap their brains around it. How could it be? Not us. Not America. Surely not. There has to be a catch. No, America could never fall into fascism or dictatorship. NO. Don't be ridiculous. That's just crazy. Now where's my pillow so I can sleep some more?

And it's too overwhelming. It's not like there's just one or two, or even three, big scandals to delve into and understand. No, even for people here on DU who follow everything this administration does very closely, it is so confusing and overwhelming the AMOUNT of shit that's been done. It's one big, gargantuan, interconnected web of lies, deceit, lawlessness, power-grabbing, killing, torturing, and democracy-dismantling. They have their tentacles f*cking up so many different fronts that it's nearly impossible to keep track of it all. This administration is like a freakin' hydra. Cut off one head and two more grow back. They are lymphatic cancer - spreading throughout the entire body. It's easy to get caught up in trying to cut off that one head or two heads instead of stepping back, seeing the whole picture and trying to get at the heart of the beast to KILL it.

I hate them.

[knitter4democracy]

34. You're right that most are just trying to survive.

I know that sounds ridiculous with so many living so well here, but that life comes at high cost. Americans work more hours a week than anyone else, and too many need two and three jobs to keep afloat. Everything's more expensive all the time, and people just don't have the energy to fight anymore. It's easier to listen to someone think for you.

If only we can wake everyone up to what's happening and why it affects their lives.

[emmadoggy]

40. Right.

I think that's another problem. So many people don't believe any of this stuff has any immediate impact on their life. And they're too tired to stop and think it through. And if they did then how could they, in good conscience, not try to DO something about it - and back to square one with being too tired and just trying to manage their own life. No time to deal with anything else. So we'll just go along to get along.

The whole thing is diabolical - and works perfectly into the plans of the Shrub administration.

[WCGreen]

44. It's just reality for the people and the media...

The Bush people just keep doing whatever they want because they have never suffered any consequence for their behavior...

Nothing, Nada...

The last time any of these scuzballs actually had to face the music was back during the Watergate crap...

That too just kept growing and growing but the House Judiciary Committee kept it's focus and went right for the jujular...

The problem we have now is the GOP in the first 6 years of the regime didn't even bother to take a peak under any of the rocks that were hiding all the crapola...

[polichick]

24. People are definitely overwhelmed...

Too many bills to pay, emails to answer, appointments to keep ~ just the everyday stuff is too much for most people. And, as you've expressed so well, the sheer amount of corruption is almost too much for anyone to take in.

And yes, as someone else said, many Americans don't want to believe their government could be so evil. Denial is a powerful thing. And when those of us who are awake, and who have done everything we can think of to put pressure on our Congresspeople to change the situation, find that our efforts get us nowhere, turning the whole thing off is pretty tempting.

[MGKrebs]

25. I agree, but I think it's not just the quantity, but the "quality" of the

corruption that causes the disconnect. I've been thinking about this in terms of the subpoenas that the WH is refusing to comply with. Think about the next step. Leahy (or whoever) would ultimately have to be prepared to send armed guys into the WH and handcuff some people and drag them out. It is that level of disregard for the law that is going on. I think the lawmakers are understandably resistant to taking that step and will exhaust every possible alternative before doing it, and average people just don't want to comprehend that that is what is going on in their government. Many people feel that we can fix whatever is wrong next time an election comes up.

I am still really surprised that they let themselves lose the '06 elections. Something must have gone very wrong for them. They have become so corrupt that the prospect of losing the majority must have looked very ominous to them. But they have responded by blatantly disregarding any semblance of oversight or cooperation. We have to hope (and work for) reasonably fair elections, but their "machine" is so vast, it's going to be hard to fight them to a draw everywhere.

[polichick]

26. "the lawmakers are understandably resistant to taking that step"

But it's time to stop resisting and get on with the difficult job that's only theirs to do.

[tbyg52]

27. You are so right about the whack-a-mole aspect of this

I'm sure "they" are snickering about what they get away with just because there is so *much* of it.

[Cha]

28. The corporate media whores are

the problem and yes, the sheer volumne would make it a field day and they would sell lots of papers but they're corporate and they support malfeasance if it means their corporate tax cuts and monopoly. They're traitors and worse than Pravda as we decided last night.

[Uncle Joe]

30. I agree zidzi, it is the corporate media,

these are the same people that could brain wash up to 70+% of the American People in to believing Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 in spite of the over whelming evidence to the contrary. Bush/Cheney couldn't have pulled that off with out such compliant and effective propaganda outlets. If the corporate media put their minds to actually holding Bush/Cheney journalistically accountable for even half of their crimes and misdeeds, we would have President Pelosi today. With out the corporate media, Bush would never have been enabled to power prior to the selection of 2000 to begin with.

I don't buy in to this saturation of corruption theory, simply put, the corporate media as a whole have never done their journalistic duty and level with or enlighten the American People as to the gravity of the power over reach or crimes committed by the Bush administration, the corporate media have been soft selling them. You can see it in their language whenever they're forced to report on some form of Bush atrocity, they most always include some form of sugar to go down with it.

[Cha]

32. And that's why we need to

"change the world through blogging", Uncle Joe!

I got a real wake up call right outta the gate in 2001 when I was still a newbie to this whole charade. I thought since bush got in that the media would take them to task like they did Clinton and things would right themselves. I should have gotten a major clue when they accused Gore of all sorts of dishonorable manuevers when the DUI ticket was exposed in Maine Before the election. Jeeze, was I ever a naive greenhorn.

[Uncle Joe]

36. Just as a wise person once said

"I want to see the ALL the mediawhores brought
down. Without the fascist press there would be no *"


:thumbsup:

[Cha]

38. Ohhh!

Sweet!

[hfojvt]

37. see, but the RWNM creates a theme and they pound and pound and pound on it

Every story could come back to the same theme - "enriching the corporations". "Our" side in the pundit world, such as it is, is first of all very, very small. When it come to ideologues who are committed to advancing a progressive agenda, there simply are not very many. On the other side, there are dozens or hundreds of conservative pundits who are committed to advancing a conservative agenda and to torpedoing any progressive agendas. We count journalists who are left leaning, or generally progressive as being on our side. To a degree they are, but in another sense they are merely honest reporters and not card carrying members of a PPM (Progressive Propaganda Machine).

There is no PPM. If somebody tries to start one or be part of one, the other side will scream 'liberal bias, liberal bias'. More liberal pundits like Rather and Phil Donahue can be fired, whereas conservative pundits like Tony Snow can skate from one high paying gig to another. From Creators Syndicate to Fox News to the White House to the Washington Times to the New York Post - the RWNM takes care of its own. As Lieberman and Brian Williams and many others have discovered - if you bash or mock Democrats you get more air time, you advance your career. You pass go, sell your soul and collect $200,000. Join the gang and prosper, or try to fight the gang and/or survive without it. Unless you are very strong or lucky, you are going to get the crap beaten out of you if you don't take the easy way out.

[napi21]

39. There's another fact hidden in your statements.

If somebody does ONE outragious thing, it's easy to jump on, by the Press & the People, but when there's a new offense every week, or sometimes more often, there get to be sooo many "balls in the air" everybody is shooting at a different one, and NONE get actually shot down!

It's similar to Iraq. If there was ONE target; ONE person or leader that if taken down, the war would end, it would have been over years ago. But we don't even know who the enemy is, and they seem to be everywhere and nowhere, so nothing changes.

[Uncle Joe]

41. I tend to believe,

the corporate media can't see the "balls in the air" because their eyes are closed and they can't hear how many balls are being caught because they've covered their ears and are going la la la la la.

The only other quibble I have, is the use of the archaic term "Press and the People", today Corporations and the Press are more apropos. I believe the corporation is their first allegiance, even over the nation as a whole.

[AntiFascist]

45. It also doesn't help when Congress won't take the corruption seriously. n/t

[morningglory]

46. Right wing nutjob north Florida panhandle here. ON local media, as on

Tim Russert's propaganda show, when anything is mentioned about not cutting programs, fixing bridges, fixing infrastructure, any darn thing at all that would cost money, the progressive is always asked "How you gonna pay for that? RAISE TAXES?!!" We need to start hearing the Dems on the national scene asking -- whenever sh*thead's warmongering proposals about staying in Iraq until the year 3000 are brought up -- "How you gonna pay for that?!! Huh?" It might start to sink in. Just a suggestion.

[Festivito]

47. If you follow the money...

You go through RepubliCON sellouts,
(media buyouts)
military-industrial-complex making profits,
Central-money-printing banks MAKING MONEY, held by SECRET people, SECRET families, even in the US that own OUR bank(the "Fed", Federal Reserve), SECRETLY, i.e we don't know who owns it. Alan Greenspan was just OUR REPRESENTATIVE.

You see, Bush/Cheney and families are not on the top of the chain. That's why they can be so bold and not care.

It's the people who get to print as much money as they want, or as it may seem, as much as the market can bear, without backing of gold, without backing of honesty (least of all honesty), without backing of anything, except that we need to pay taxes with it, so we use it, it has use in keeping us out of jail -- AND IT'S EASY TO USE.

For 2000 years a few people have held the secret of money, that it needs little to no backing, as long as it is needed and offers the service of being easy to use.

But, in their greed they started wars to gain the tax monies from both sides. Next, they brought boom cycles, then called in the money, called in the loans, and bought the properties, the industries for reduced prices.

These people could punch the president leaving a mark and walk away.

These people know * impregnated a 15 yo girl and aborted the baby, and perhaps much more -- and they'll let him inherit his daddy's spoils.
They'd know his daddy helped kill JFK, and they let him have S&L profits, and a military profit machine.
They know the grandpa tried a coup on FDR and traded with NAZIs while we were at war ...IN A BANK.

Over thousands of years they've learned how to MISLEAD large groups of people, countries full of people. Media and all.

Corruption you say.

Yeah, big corruption, big money. Enough to buy media and a Congress. And for what can't be bought just extort with pictures of 16 year-olds, or threaten with Anthrax, or kill -- and get away with it. They method list is thousands of years in the making.

But, they don't see it as corruption.

3-4 HOURS LONG BUT SOMEWHAT RIVETING...
Money as debt, a good cartoon introduction...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

Money Masters 1 of 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1583154561904832383

Money Masters 2 of 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-529716659023952808

[krkaufman]

48. Wow, that writing format is about as tough to read as ALL CAPS. n/t

[shimmergal]

51. most everything you say, and the

other posters also, is true, but I think more people are uneasy about it than we credit. At least by now.

I'll bet 80% of the Ron Paul enthusiasts are motivated by the same sense of overwhelming malfeasance in the admin. And of course, just as the Kucinich campaign gets little attention in the MSM, neither does Paul's. In both cases, its'a deliberate attempt to blot out knowledge that some candidates are actually trying to change the system.

And yet, as far as I can see, Ron Paul is stirring more passion in ordinary, non-neocon Republicans than all of their other candidates combined. I know his libertarian approach contains some things that are anathema to us, but at this point in time we need to be looking at how the two camps' interests coincide.