Who Would Be Our Strongest Candidate Against The GOPU?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I really don't have a dog in this fight other than wanting to see our party nominate the person who has the best chance of winning in November... I like Clinton, Obama, and Edwards... I don't dislike Kucinich, Gravel, Dodd, Richardson, and Biden...I also don't think they have a substantial chance of winning the nomination... I am also a huge Miami Dolphins and Miami Heat fan but I'm not buying SuperBowl or NBA Championship tickets either...I'm a realist...


I think electing a woman president would be a statement and I think electing an African American would be a redemptive moment for this nation but I think sometimes the conventional choice is the best choice and that is John Edwards, though he is not without vulnerabilities...

The mean old GOOPERS will mercilessly exploit the vulnerabilities of any of our candidates. That being said who do you think would be our strongest candidate in November?

If we blow this election we need to find another planet

[MaineDem]

1. Did you forget Edwards? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Good Catch

TY

[Kolesar]

3. GPU?

maybe??

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I Call Them The GOPU as In PU

If people don't get it I'll abandon the moniker...

[Kolesar]

5. GPU and OGPU were names for the Soviet secret police from "The Gulag Archipelago"

A formative book by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn that I read in my teenage years. Scared the hell out of me. Was a good reason to be an anti-communist.

Decades later, I realize that there was more to it. The last insult and irony was that the bush government used Soviet-era prisons to hold their enemies in secret.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Never Read The Gualag Archipelago

A lot of Americans fell out of love with Solzhenitsyn when he criticized what he believed to be the "excesses" of liberal democratic society... A lot of Russians, did and still do, want to replace one kind of authoritarianism with another...

[Kolesar]

22. Russians loved their country and many believed that Stalin betrayed "the revolution" of Lenin

Many Russians wanted to maintain a Communist system with its ideals of equality. It is a much bigger thesis than I can express in one DU post. Plus, I have to do some carpentry once this coat of caulk dries :)

[gateley]

9. That's mentioned in Naomi Wolf's new book, too. Among other Steps to Fascism

that appear to be occurring.

The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot

http://www.amazon.com/End-America-Letter-Warning-Patriot/dp/1933392797/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-2497031-7441467?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190475513&sr=8-1

[Kolesar]

23. A patriot must be prepared to defend his country against his government

--Edward Abbey, another of my top 5 favorite authors.

[gateley]

6. I'm for Biden -- he's the most experienced in all areas, has the history of

dealing with -- and standing up to -- the GOP, and has an impressive record in foreign affairs. He doesn't take any bullshit from either side. I think the more people are exposed to him the more support he'll garner, and he'll have a good chance of getting the nod.

[Colobo]

7. With Obama we all win- They can't fight or beat The Audacity of Hope.

[frogcycle]

10. I think Biden

Probably the biggest negatives he has with us (the bankruptcy bill and votes on war funding)are positives with them. His vigorous support of the MRAPs and long association with the military is a big plus.

Sure, he likes the spotlight and likes to talk. But in a toe-to-toe contest with any of their people, I think he'd eat their lunch. He'd chew them up and spit them out in a debate, and be entertaining in the process. And he sure has experience in working the system.

From a strictly "who would they hate the least" perspective, I think he's the guy. AND, I like him and believe he'd happily pull in Edwards healthcare plan and his own plans to end the war and get public funding of elections (the single most important ingredient to fixing the special interest issue).

[frogcycle]

11. I LIKE Edwards more than Biden

but as regards the point of the question, Biden is the guy

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. He Would Probably Be A Decent Candidate

But a gaffe like "Obama is clean and articulate" or "the Indians have bought all the 7-11s" could be definitive in a general election...

And, I don't see him getting the nomination... I would be willing to lay heavy odds it will be Clinton, Obama, or Edwards, barring events I don't even want to contemplate...

[gateley]

16. I think if it gets to that stage, and he addresses those people who found his

remarks offensive, people will understand his decency and realize they were a result of his passion, not bigotry or bias. He's already explained that the "clean" reference to Obama was meant to imply "fresh, new", like clean and shiny and new, but nobody seems to remember that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I Am Afraid He Would Make New Ones...

eom

[gateley]

20. Possibly, but I don't think they'd be a reflection of his beliefs and standards and

people would hopefully understand that. Most of the candidates have said things they regret and have been judged on (e.g. Hillary stay-at-home mom baking cookies), and if they haven't yet, they will. If a candidate doesn't let loose sometimes and is excruciatingly perfect in their presentations and responses, THAT'S what would concern me. More aware of how the statement would be received, than answering the question or expressing honestly.

[Ninga]

13. I voted for Edwards, because I am thinking that winning is not everything in ,08, but

the margin of the win is critical.

Polls show that people thirst for change, and the new President must stand for change and win by a landslide.

The Dem nominee needs to win by a landslide.
A landslide will give the new President a mandate.
A mandate will give the new President leverage.
Leverage is needed to get programs and bills through the system.

No mandate equals little to no change.

Right now, I can not see Hillary winning by a landslide. With Edwards, it is possible. (perhaps others)

Congress must not be able (GOP) to say that the "country is clearly divided" to justify their veto votes of any progressive bills and programs.

No mandate in "08 equals little to no change.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. A Landslide

Hmmm

Define a landslide...

Clinton won EC landslides in 92 and 96... Reagan, Johnson, and Nixon won pop vote and EC landslides...

I suspect the South goes all red except for a small possibility VA or FL go blue... It's hard to see a landslide without "stealing" some southern state as Clinton did in 92 and 96...

[Ninga]

18. A Reagan style landslide.....with the map showning scant few red states.

Well, you made an interesting point about Clinton in '92.

The GOP tied his hands real good didnt' they? Clinton shot to the center and we got NAFTA.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Reagan Carried Forty States In 80 And Forty Nine States In 84

eom

on edit- he might have carried 44 states in 80... I don't remember anymore but it was brutal...

[Think82]

43. EVERYONE WATCH THIS SPEECH

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&cPath=6_12&products_id=201086-1&tID=5&highlight=

it's the senate session friday. Biden begins speaking at about 1hr 45 min into the video. They are voting on his plan next weeke. If you will ever watch anything to prove why Biden is the best candidate in 08 and probably our lifetimes, this video is it. Please watch, even if you are preferring someone else at this point.

[frogcycle]

45. tip

just scroll the video all thw wat to the end - twice.

it is multiple files. the third one starts just into biden's prep remarks b4 speech, which are also quite significant

[penguin7]

49. You are really drinking the kool aid if you think Edwards is

going to win in a landslide.

Edwards is the weakest of all the candidates. He ranks near zero on sincerity. It is fatal for a candidate to be perceived as a phony.

[Inspired]

15. I voted Edwards because of republican crossover.

I know many republicans who like Edwards. It is odd because he doesn't stand for anything that they believe in. It doesn't seem to matter. They simply LIKE him. My own husband just changed his party affiliation so he can caucus for Edwards. I don't see that happening much for Hillary.

I went to the Harkin steak fry last weekend and I ran into 2 men who commented to me, after they saw that I was an Edwards supporter, that if Edwards is NOT the nominee, they will vote for a republican. Again, would that same thing be said about Hillary?

I worry that we haven't learned a thing from the last 2 elections. The average American votes for who they LIKE. They don't pay attention to most issues. It is an emotional choice. We have in front of us a candidate who is extremely likable. And he is a progressive. Nominating Edwards is a win-win for us. We get a candidate who believes in Democratic principles AND can get support from the other side.

[maximusveritas]

21. The reason is because they don't know much about him

All they likely know about him is that he's a Southern white male. They may even remember him as one of the moderate candidates in 2004. That's all they need to know to prefer him over Hillary and Obama for now.

The question is whether that will last after the Republicans get through demonizing him if he is the nominee. I highly doubt it.

I seem to remember many people supporting Kerry because he was more electable than Dean. He may have been more electable at the time of the primary, but by the time the Republicans got through swiftboating him and calling him a liberal flip-flopper, he had as much chance as Dean would have.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. That's It

The last three elected Democratic presidents since the 1960 election have been southern white males...

As I said, I don't care who our nominess is, they are all acceptable to me, but I hope he or she can win...

[Inspired]

25. Some of us never thought Kerry was the most electable.

He certainly wasn't the most likable.

John Edwards had a statement in the rally speeches he gave during the last primary season. I don't think this is his exact words but it went something like this...

"You give me the nomination and I will give you the White House."

I believe in would have been true in '04 (many others agree with me) and I believe it now.

What do I know though?!

[Ninga]

26. You know what you know. Don't question your gut. More of us need to do it. And

for sure, we need a President who uses intuition, as well as smarts.

[gateley]

27. Amen. nt

[frogcycle]

39. i wrestled with my response

i LIKE edwards too. i sai biden because i wastrying to read the right's minds, and that ain't easy. You make excellent points.

[radiclib]

28. Here's my explanation for my crazy vote

for Kucinich, which I admit seems ridiculous at first, but consider:
If by some miracle Dennis won the nomination, it would have to have been the result of a massive sea change in American politics, no? And by the time of the general election, the movement would be unstoppable, especially given that it would be led by a candidate who can think on his feet, answer his critics clearly, won't need to pander or equivocate on any issue, can't be accused of "flip flopping" and has the added asset (for the legions of the shallow) of a gorgeous and articulate First Lady in waiting!
I can dream, can't I? :loveya:

[zalinda]

29. Even if he got the nomination

I think that dems would stay home in droves. The more I hear about him from his supporters and the more I hear from him, the more he reminds me of Nader. I went to his website yesterday and was not impressed. All his "issues" were in generalities. I went there to check out his "health care plan", there wasn't one, just four paragraphs of "Single-Payer, Not-for-Profit health care system" generalities, nothing about how we would get there or any other specifics.

I'm not sure if I could even "hold my nose" and vote for him in the general. Although I'm sure some repubs would vote for him just to see him fail, so the public wouldn't vote for a dem again. Kucinich has been in Congress for 10 years, who's heard of him? Do other parts of Ohio even knows he exists? He isn't seen as someone who is a leader in Congress, in fact, rumor has it that he's not easy to work with. And yet there are people who are enamored by this guy, for reasons that escape me. Not only are they in his corner, but they sound like he is the coming of "the only true Democrat", on par with Jesus Christ. Logic be damned, they have "Saint Dennis" in their heart, which is the only thing that matters. It was the same with Ralph Nader, and that's scary.

zalinda

[radiclib]

34. OK you don't like him, fine

but if you're going to propogate rumors along the lines of "not easy to work with" please provide a link. Or something. But you're missing the point...IF he were to get the nomination, it would HAVE to be because he had somehow marshalled the support of HUGE numbers of Dems, the one you claim would "stay away in droves". I'm not talking about waking up tomorrow and Dennis is the nominee..in which case, as of now, of COURSE most Dems would probably stay home, because most Dems (like you, presumably) see him as a whiny elf at this point.
Also, isn't it amazing how simple a health care plan can be when you take out the myriad machinations dealing with insurance, co-pays, eligibility, blahblah..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. I'd Vote For Any Democratic Nominee

eom

[slipslidingaway]

44. His health care plan is proposed legislation HR 676 and it is

mentioned on his site. Or see these links. And most of your negatives are generalities.

Health Care....What's Lacking Is Political Leadership!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1830393


A cool headed approach, justice instead of revenge...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1796829#1796838

[penguin7]

48. Look at this site

http://www2.kucinich.us/issues

He is the only candidate that is giving specifics.

And even on the page you looked at. THe bottom has links to more specifics.

You have not given a fair critique.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Sure You Can-There's Nothing Wrong With It-It's Laudable

I'm just kind of jaded and cynical...

[radiclib]

35. Yeah, me too

I'm just funnin', really :hi:

[zalinda]

30. I think Liberals want to have a woman or a black

running for President, the only thing that would be better is if a black woman was running. Liberals feel the guilt, but would that translate into votes, I don't know. We, on DU, are political junkies, we are probably less than 10% of the population, and the percentage is even less when going up against those that even take time out to vote. Of the, let's be generous, 60% of the population that vote, how many do you think even reads the platforms of the candidates. I'd say at least half of those who vote, don't know anything about what their candidate stands for, they only vote by who they like. It's a gut instinct for many of them, would their gut vote for a woman or a black, I don't know. Some will only vote straight ticket, always voted straight ticket and will vote straight ticket until they die. Some will read only what they like or don't like about a platform and vote on that, ie: gay marriage, taxes, abortion. And still some will sort of read the platforms and discuss it with friends and family to get a consensus on who they should vote for. Mix all of this up with a media who can make or break a candidate, and it is a crap shoot.

zalinda

[rep the dems]

31. It's just like Bill Maher said: the one sure winner would be John Edwards.

But I think most of our other candidates could win too.

[polichick]

33. I agree with Maher on this one...

Edwards would have the best shot in the GE. Others would have a better shot if the election was actually fair and everyone's vote counted ~ but that's not likely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. He Seems To Be The Conventional Choice...

Johnson, Carter, Clinton...

What do they all have in common?


But the past is not always prologue...

[Prophet 451]

37. Explanation

I like Kucinich. However, I think a big chunk of the public really are superficial enough that they wouldn't consider voting for Dennis because he's short, not an especially good public speaker and looks like a goblin (and I like the guy).

Leaving Dennis aside, I think Hillary brings too much baggage (i.e. the right hate her with such a violent passion, she'd be the best GOTV the Repubs ever had), she's not liberal enough for me to be passionate about her and she's a woman (let's not lie, it will matter to some).

Obama will be superb in four to eight years, he'd make an ideal VP pick for whoever gets nominated but right now, I just don't think he has the experiance at this level. Also, he's black (again, it will matter to some people).

Leaving those three aside, Edwards is the best of what's left (assuming Gore doesn't run which I don't think he will).

[illinoisprogressive]

40. GOP and others concider Obama the toughest to beat. But, dems are blind....

[Exultant Democracy]

41. We are democrats, can't expect us to vote for our real best chance

then we might win.

[Forkboy]

42. This might be the first DU poll I've ever seen that matches my thinking exactly.

:scared:

[IndianaGreen]

46. I support Kucinich, but for the purposes of this poll, I voted for Edwards.

Hillary is unacceptable to the antiwar Left simply because she is a neoliberal imperialist that wants to do a better job than Bush at using our military power to protect and expand American hegemony across the world.

Obama is stuck in the mud, and he doesn't appear to have the wherewithall to beat Hillary. He should drop out and endorse Edwards, if he wants to prevent a Clinton fiasco in November 2009.

[BenDavid]

47. I have no idea why I even cast a vote

for one of these, but I hate to see something rigged and slanted from the start.....So, I cast my vote for HRC...and really there is no sense in having that poll because of all the major and minor polls HRC defeats all on the right.....But keep on with your polls but come sometime in February 2008 I hope these polls are more accurate in nature and we can begin doing all we can to elect the next president of the u s....I hope it tis HRC.

B.D.

[penguin7]

50. Besides Kucinich, I worry about the choices

The best thing the Democrats have going for them is that the Republicans do not appear to have a good candidate.