Do you feel, as I do, that another sour election will strike the death knell

[WCGreen]

for the grand American experiment...

If the Democratic nominee wins the popular vote again...

And this initiative in California, to distribute the state's electoral votes by the vote in each congressional district, is taken to the Supreme Court and once again the Supreme Court rebukes the will of the people, will we still have a country...

Will people say enough is enough and spill out into the streets and demand justice...

Or will the people just say, what the fuck, the Super Bowl is on and besides, there really isn't THAT much difference between a democracy and a theocracy now is there...

I got the cable, I got the IPod, I got the High Definition TV, I got a job, what should I worry about...

And besides that, the terrorists are lurking behind every corner...

If that happened, could you still live in this country...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Those are tough questions, Chris...

I have so much invested here...

I don't really know if I could walk away from all of it, esp. at my age...

As far as the initiative in California...I don't think it will get off the ground.

It may very well get on the ballot, but I expect there will be so much negative publicity against it that it will fail at the polls...

Do you really expect a sour election?

I don't...

Just the eternal optimist, that's me...

K&R

[WCGreen]

3. Arnold needs to step up and oppose this initiative...

there is a case to be made that the Constitution states that the states legislature is the only body in charge of apportioning electoral votes, but that is a thin and shakey thread to hang the hope of American democracy upon...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I have not heard his views on this one...

But I'll keep listening/reading...

It is a slender thread indeed...

[silverojo]

2. That might comprise half the reaction

The other half of America will be just too damned terrified to take to the streets. :scared:

[emilyg]

5. America - with all its warts is still my country.

[avrdream]

6. I already left because I was fed up.

But that was only because my profession seems to get screwed more and more each year with the Republicans.

As a consequence, I am EXTREMELY happy that the Dem candidates are talking about health care reform. I say to myself, "FINALLY!"

[Greyhound]

22. How did you get out? n/t

[HuffleClaw]

7. i feel the 'grand experiment' was over when bush stole ohio.

and it went unnoticed for the most part. i largely blame the media too. a responsible media could destroy bush in a matter of weeks if it did its job. easily too, considering the mountain of his evildoings to pick from. but will it? the media HAS, from time to time, seemed to remember its duty to the people, but not often enough nor with any real regularity.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Kerry threw in the towel in 2004, and Gore was pressured to concede in 2000

There are powerful interests that did not want a challenge to electoral results, and the Democratic establishment is a tool of those interests.

Remember Kerry saying this week that there was no evidence that Ohio was stolen?

[BigBearJohn]

19. Maybe that's why Gore is not running now.

[the other one]

8. I'm here to the bitter end. See you at the barricades.

I love you guys!

[HughMoran]

9. I'm here. Fighting.

Could get pretty bad though.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. I meant to ask you...

Could you still live in this country too?



And a kick for the well-deserved Greatest Page!



:patriot:

[WCGreen]

11. Just started to think about it....

[MissWaverly]

12. Not going to happen, No Way, No How

the republicans have lost big on the state level, I have confidence that this have a major impact on the
election and Jeb is no longer in power in Florida. Crist is attacked constantly, he is not a loyal
Bushie whatever his faults may be. And Kenneth Blackwell is not governor or SOS in Ohio. This crew
needs a team of lockstep diehards who are willing to do anything to maintain power. Once they lose
that they are ineffective because they are incapable of building support from outside their camp. They
war on others to maintain control, they maintain control thru intimidation, they can't survive w/o it.

Why do you think all these Pukes are retiring if they had a lock on ballot box in 2008, they have
seen the enemy and he is us and our numbers grow every day.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. K&R

[AtomicKitten]

14. Another stolen election will incite anarchy.

[ginchinchili]

15. I'm afraid apathy is stronger than patriotism right now

Republicans claim "patriotism!" and let this stupid Republican president convince them that things harmful to our nation are good and patriotic. And few are willing to send THEIR kids to Iraq, but it's worth the sacrifice of other people's kids. Hardly patriotic.

Democrats sit and watch an election, probably 2 elections, stolen from them and all we do is sit and whine rather than seriously mobilizing until our Federal Government either investigates Bush or be shut down. We don't demand enough from our elected officials. Their main concern, like the Republicans, is keeping their jobs.

I don't think it's a Republican or a Democratic problem; I think it's an American problem. We can either wake up and do something about it before disaster strikes, or we wait until disaster strikes and we do the best we can with whatever is left. I'm not real hopeful, though a Democrat in the White House should at least slow the hemorrhaging. We have to get one there first and unlike make Democrats whose posts I read on these boards, I don't assume a Democratic victory in 2008 is a slam dunk. I think we have to be very careful about overconfidence.

[earth mom]

16. Are the powers that be even going to ALLOW an election-that's the question. nt

[Greyhound]

21. I am as certain as one can be about anything in the future that the election will take place.

There is no motivation to expose their power yet. Unless, there is some kind of a miracle and Dennis Kucinich, or Mike Gravel, gets the nomination, the next President will not upset their ongoing agenda and they are so close to achieving their goal that there is no reason to risk letting the facade fall away.

[IndianaGreen]

17. The American Republic died a long time ago, with the help of Congress!

The stubborn refusal by Democratic leaders to defend the Constitution by allowing for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney ranks among the great betrayals of freedom of all time.

Elections are a sham! We have seen how the GOP stole Florida in 2000, and Ohio in 2004, and how the Democratic establishment refused to challenge those results as people in Latin America have challenged results of stolen elections.

There are reasons for this, namely that the two major parties are a front for the American ruling class, and their role is one to give the populace an illusion of freedom and democracy in order to prevent us from taking our pitchforks and torches and storming Washington, DC.

The 2008 election will be no different. We will vote for change, but get more of the same. The Democrats will sugar coat policies that are not materially different from the Republicans. We will get the same old shit on trade, oil wars, the Middle East, and our jobs will continue to go overseas.

One possible scenario is illustrated by Sunday's Newsweek article, posted in LBN, that Cheney has mulled Israel's proposal to attack Iran first, and then when Iran retaliates, the US will use that as a pretext to launch a massive weeks-long bombing campaign on Iran.

If they pull that stunt on the eve of Election Day 2008, what will the outcome be? Consider the fact that we won't know that Israel was the one that struck first, only that Iran attacked Israel. All of AIPAC's bots in Congress, including Hillary, will support the new war in the Persian Gulf. What will you do then? Who will benefit?

[Greyhound]

20. Yes, probably, and I have no choice. n/t

[Perry Logan]

23. Whatever happens, it will further destroy the Republic Party.

If the election is righteous, the Democrats will win, and we can start repairing the damage. This alone will take at least 50 years....

In the unlikely event the Repubs hack in one of their losers, he will only further bollix things up and thereby alienate more people from the Republicans. Any way you look at it, they're screwed.

Even the Republicans know they can't win. If you look at the Party leadership, you see none of the creepy self-confidence they evinced before the 2004 election.

[Totally Committed]

24. Yes, especially if the American public is convinced to go along with

"their" plan for who should run this country, and how.

It is no coincidence that the Bushes, and the Clintons have been passing the Presidency back and forth between the two families for decades.

We need to break the cycle, and the corporate hold it and the DLC represents to the Democratic Party, and elect someone who is completely OUT of that loop.

TC