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If your candidate isn't nominated and Hillary becomes the nominee, what will you do?

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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:26 PM
Original message
Poll question: If your candidate isn't nominated and Hillary becomes the nominee, what will you do?
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 01:35 PM by onehandle
Read carefully.

This poll is only for those who already have a candidate or do not support any of the present candidates (including Gore).
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can you put one more - I'm undecided at this point
not for or against Senator Clinton.

I will vote for the nominee no matter who it is.

How about an - I'm undecided, but will vote for Hillary is she's the nominee - option?

:hi:
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I meant this poll for the decided. I edited the message to reflect this.
Thanks for reminding me.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. So I don't get to vote?
x(

MEANY!!!
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Anyone who does not vote for #1 or #2
does not remember 2000 very well.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh, cool, another purity test!
what happens if I get a blue plus sign?
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Vote for her although the question does not apply to me because I do not have a candidate
Since my state's primary is an impotent waste of polling places and computer technology. The nominee will be a done deal by the time us yahoos in Mississippi decide to vote in June of 2008.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Voting for her will be easy
She's not my first pick, but she has a good track record on most everything except the war. I'm not a one issue voter.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Another idea for an additon, "cross that bridge when I get to it"
How is this line of questioning productive at this point?

It's never a good idea to make people feel as if they have no choice, or as if all their choices have been made by others for them. It just makes people angry. Really, that's all it ever does.

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. How about another option? "Hold My Nose, Throw Up and Vote"
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It may come to that! n/t
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. The phrase "hold my nose" annoys me so much.
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Reno.Muse Donating Member (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. that may be an option as the Dems push us all to Clinton Redux
bleeh.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. I really, really don't want to have to vote for Hillary.
So I cannot say what I will do if she actually pulls this one off. All I can say right now is vote for a Democratic candidate that feels about the issues as you do. Take a serious look at Dennis Kucinich a man that has been opposed to the war since day one and will work to do the right thing. Vote values for real. Peace and love, Kim
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. other. I'll vote for her, but not work the streets for her.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. "Support" = at least vote for, if not actually work for. nt
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 01:43 PM by onehandle
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. ok. When I really support a candidate I get out there and work, like I did for kerry.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Mostly depends on the 3rd party candidate.
But likely I would work against her and for a 3rd party candidate if it is the right one.
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. She isn't my candidate
I will not support her.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Bye, bye now
Bye, bye.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Not going to support repub-lite anymore.
Sorry but it just keeps this problem we have with rewarding bad behavior.
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. That strategy worked really well for the Naderites in 2000. n/t
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. And your point?
If we keep supporting the people who punch us in the face after we vote for them we will always be on the short end of the stick.
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. Yes, and 2000 taught us that if we don't vote for those people, we end up getting the people
who prefer to take a cheese grater to our genitals. I'd personally rather have the face-punchers than the ball-shredders, and so I vote accordingly.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #27
56. Rmember Gore and Kerry won!
I would think DU would remember this! We need a thread to discover why we can't remember.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Yes why go republican-lite when we can have the real republicans
Please - don't come to DU and fuck with my right to choose what I do with my body. At least I know Hillary will help protect my right to choose, to use birth control and research with Stem Cells
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Huh?
What the hell are you talking about?
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. I won't tell you what to do with your body....
if you don't try to tell me what to do with my vote.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. I don't care what you do with your vote but I do care what you do with my forum
This is a website for democrats that supports democrats.

Sure, I have no problem when we criticize them but I refuse to put up with this bullshit promoting that it's ok to vote 3rd party, vote republican or even worse - NOT VOTE instead of voting for Hillary.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. It's my forum as well...and if a REAL democrat is nominated...
I'll be the first one beating the bandwagon. But as a progressive, and a person who cares about the direction of the PARTY I'm not going to bare witness to another weak, republican-lite canidate. Its just not going to happen.

If that means you want to stifle my free speech and insist that I don't on "your" board anymore then fine, you have the right to that backward counter productive opinion. It would mean a little more if you were a mod though.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. I am not voting in this poll....
no one has pulled a lever yet and we are all but cannonizing Hillary. She does not have all the answers. She is ok but we have a strong group and I refuse to have the media dictate who my candidate is. I am not too happy with the beltway DEM'S at the moment. If I keep getting pushed-I might vote for Ron Paul and really shake things up.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's a harmless poll. I voted "choke back the vomit and do my duty"
Only a fool would refuse to support the eventual Democratic nominee. If she wins, she's the better candidate. She'll have my unwavering support after the convention, as will any other nominee. But until then, every day I pray "Please, God, not Hillary."
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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. I boogered my vote. Can I get a do-over?
I voted that she's not my candidate, but I'll vote for her. That's not really true. I don't really have a candidate yet & my state is so late in the primaries my vote doesn't even count.

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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Vote absentee for her
Then go on a long vacation around election day, preferrably out of the country.

My default vote will be the most support she'll get from me.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'll support her.
I want a Democrat in the White House in 2008, and I wouldn't mind another eight years of the Clintons. Another eight years of peace and prosperity is fine by me!!
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. a Giuliani Presidency would be far, far, far more dangerous than Bush/Cheney
That would take away even one second thought about whether or not to support Sen. Clinton.

Admittedly it is hard to imagine a presidency that could be more disastrous for the world than Bush/Cheney. But Rudy Giuliani leads all other Republicans by significant margins. And in polling of possible general election match-ups he is well within striking distance.

To put some context on just how extreme Giuliani actually is..he just appointed Daniel Pipes -- a racist extremist nut just as far out in his extremism as David Duke is in his particular brand of fanaticism.

some links:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-schlesinger/giuliani-worse-than-bush_b_61412.html

From Harpers: Pipes Joins Up With Giuliani by Ken Silverstein

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/08/hbc-90001048

"I think it’s fair to say that Pipes is even further out ideologically than Norman Podhoretz, another Giuliani adviser. Readers unfamiliar with Pipes can check out his profile at Wikipedia."

------------

This Article from Huffington Post by Stephen Schlesinger

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-schlesinger/giuliani-worse-than-bush_b_61412.html

"The Republican presidential front runner, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, has just written his foreign policy credo for Foreign Affairs magazine. It is a truly unnerving pronouncement -- even worse than Bush-ism. Not unexpectedly, Mr. Giuliani backs all of the most brazen features of the Bush administration's global agenda. But he tosses in several deeply scary initiatives of his own that George W. never touched."

"He promises to pursue Bush's strategy in Iraq relentlessly to "eliminate the export of terror," and warns that, as in Vietnam, any withdrawal would be a sign of weakness and "an invitation for more war." He does not conceive of, admit to, or even mention the possibility of a region-wide political settlement which even now the Bush Administration is apparently contemplating. In addition, he would "press ahead" with an anti-ballistic missile system -- regardless of its outsized costs or ineffectiveness. And he would, as he says, "pursue the gains made by the USA Patriot Act and not unrealistically limit electronic surveillance or legal interrogation." Sounds a lot like an embrace of unrestricted presidential power and possibly torture.

For Israel, he now opposes the "creation of another state" in Palestine -- a repudiation of Bush's own stance. On Iran, "should all else fail," he would destroy that nation's nuclear infrastructure -- a mini-Cheney on steroids. More broadly, though, he would ratchet up our public diplomacy, expand the old Cold War radio stations, ditto with Internet networks, and insist that our US ambassadors "clearly advocate for US policies" -- a kind of in-your-face proselytizing of the sort the former mayor practiced so fervently when he ran New York City.

But Mr. Giuliani's most peculiar innovations are with the United Nations and NATO. Predictably, he is anti-UN -- as he was as mayor of NYC. But he goes further and argues that the UN has "proved irrelevant to the resolution of almost every major dispute of the last fifty years." This is a breathtaking display of incomprehension. Just a reminder: the UN stopped the invasion of South Korea; settled the Suez crisis of 1956; assisted in the ending of the Cuban missile crisis of 1963; ousted Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991. It brought peace to conflicts in Guatemala, Angola, Mozambique, El Salvador, Cambodia and helps keep the peace in Cyprus. More recently, it aided Haiti in holding an election and ending violence, pushed the Syrians out of Lebanon, enforced a ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon and presently supports a dozen or so other peacekeeping missions.

Now we come to the ex-mayor's most bizarre suggestion -- that NATO be encouraged to act "globally," be reconfigured to confront "significant threats to the international system," and "we should open the organization's membership to any state" -- though it is a European-based body. Is Mr. Giuliani thus proposing that NATO replace the UN as the world's arbiter? And why not? Since the US dominates NATO, this would give Washington a direct means to extend its security purvey over the entire planet. This is a vision consistent with the authoritarian instincts with which Mr. Giuliani governed NYC. Still his retro-policies appear to be out of kilter with the times. He will have a lot of explaining to the American electorate about his foreign policy weltanschauung. It should be an illuminating exercise that may actually remind voters of why the only elected post he has ever risen to is mayor."

-------------

A Giuliani presidency would actually be more dangerous than the Bush/Cheney debacle; much more dangerous. What is scary is that many Americans mistakenly believe that Giuliani is a moderate because of his position on some social issues. But make no mistake about it -- a transition from Bush/Cheney to Giuliani would be a transition from out of the frying pan and into the fire. A Giuliani presidency would mean a dark and sinister future for those who strive for peace.

And it could happen ...just check a cross section of polls..he is leading all other Republicans by significant margins..and his chance of winning if nominated cannot be dismissed:

Republican Primary Polls:

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08rep.htm

General Election Polls:

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

It would not be an exaggeration at all to say that electing Giuliani would be like electing David Duke with better p.r. cosmetics.

.
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gorekerrydreamticket Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
28. Excuse me, I wasn't here in 2004....
Were Dean supporters constantly posting this question on the board prior to the first caucus or primary and then belittling everyone who did not pledge undying support for President Dean in the general election?
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. As a Dean support I'll admit I saw that crap but...
I was not one of them.

BTW - DU clearly states that after the primaries this is a website to support the democrat candidate. Sure you'll get a few green party/lieberman/anti-democrat post slip through but in general it is disallowed
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. Good thing the primaries aren't over yet, isn't it. NT
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's nice to see that 72% of DUers have NOT drunk the republican grape kool-aid
"ooooo Hillary is bad and we don't want her as our president"

Seriously - I dare anyone to tell me it'll be ok with 4-8 years of Giuliani, Rommey or Thompson
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'd support any of the other candidates. but, never Hillary.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. Not my candidate now but I will support her wholeheartedly!
Edited on Mon Sep-24-07 04:31 PM by MaineDem
I want a Democrat in the White House. I will do all within my power to help that come true.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. I will support the Dem nominee, no matter who she or he is.
We can NOT take any more of the GOP in charge.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Sen Clinton knows that most Dems will vote for her.
This is why she is, of course, going to appeal to Moderate Repugs & Indies (Swing Voters). She has to do so in order to win the general election.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. I didn't say I'd vote for her in the primaries.
I see your point though - and if that's true, it is good strategy. As for me personally, I don't know who I'm voting for in the primaries yet. I was really hoping someone would come through with a good health insurance plan, one that covers everyone. *sigh*
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
36. hillary is our best option since that other clinton.
IMHO...FWIW...
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Niccolo_Macchiavelli Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
40. i will not vote for hillary
i won't vote for kucinic either..but i would

but i have the privilege beeing swiss and to live in switzerland. I'd be the heck annoyed if i had to vote in that two-party joke of an election system. If i had to vote i'd vote green (which i vote here too). You don't win with a repug, you don't win with a dem so what does it matter anyway? I'd prefer a fast collapse so there can be some reforms and something reasonable can be built. Clinging the corporatedems-lesser-of-2-evils just slows this process.

So you can be happy i haven't a vote at all ;)
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
41. I think John Edwards is the far stronger national candidate for a general
election.

If Sen. Clinton prevails and is our nominee, I'll support the ticket if for no other reason than I believe she would make a resonant point to nominate pro-choice appointees to the U.S. Supreme Court, and I'd like to see the high Court tilt more to the port side and less to the starboard.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Coattails----->
I believe that any Democrat has this sewn up, but some Democrats...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3496258
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Yes. I'm hoping for a whopping, all-region, ballot-wide triumph in Nov. 08.
And I think it's within grasp.
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. I will wholeheartedly support the Democratic nominee. n/t
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. For me it all depends on who's running third party....
I'll either vote for them or abstain. War mongering faux libs don't get my vote. Expessially when they are as grating as Hillary.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
47. Think of the entertainment value of having the Clintons back in the White House
As someone pointed out, we are electing a celebrity, not a President.

Imagine Hillary greeting the President of France, while Bill meets with Sarko's mistress.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. Undecided
I still think she is unlikely to get the nom even with what the polls are saying.

If she really does well in the primaries it could change my opinion. I think the truth will come once people (Dem's) have to pick a candidate in the primaries. Until then I think it is wide open.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
52. PRESSURE HER to pledge to opening ALL the books on BushInc and be FOR open
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 09:21 AM by blm
government instead of FOR protecting the Bushes, the way Bill protected Poppy Bush throughout the 90s.

THEN I will vote for her and work for her.

Hillary - there is a LOT that needs clearing up if you would choose to RESPECT the citizens and show some HONESTY for a change:

Just read the 20 questions left unanswered, and it is apparent that had they been a priority for ANY administration, a 9-11 event would never have happened, and NO BUSH would ever be even allowed near the White House.


Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.




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ChipperbackDemocrat Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
53. What am I going to do.
1. Be a delegate at the convention (Something I am running for now) and put what I believe in in the platform
2. I'm going work like hell for Hillary Clinton.

If she wins the nomination, I'll march right behind her. :)

(But I'm not thinking about next fall right now..I'm think the primaries...and I'm busting my butt for Dennis Kucinich!)

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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
55. Vote for any democrat on the ticket
I am an Edwards person, however I will vote for the ticket... A Hillary and Edwards....Edwards adn Biden, Gore and Edwards or Edwards and Gore..any one on the ticket is better than a republican.
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