Columbia University Prez: This is one reason why the Muslim world hates the U.S.

[FlaxieB]

Columbia University Prez Lee Bollinger gave a scathing introduction prior to the speech by Iranian Prez Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Don't get me wrong, The Iranian Prez can't be trusted and I don't like him, but don't invite someone to your facility in good faith and then demean the man in front of your facility and students. In my opinion, this does not make americans look honest and trusting to the rest of the world.

It was out of place for a University Prez to demean this man. The University received a lot of criticism and outrage from students as well as the media and the american public about his decision to invite Ahmadinejad, so in order for him to regain any self credibility and possibly deter decline of future enrollment for the university and the future of his job, he attacks the man on his own turf in front of a campus full of influential youngsters who after his introduction now have a skewed opinion of what the Iranian Prez said. Plus what the University should have realized is that his demeaning of Ahmadinejad only give him more credibility and stature in the Middle East who already have a powerful hatred for the U.S. This only fuels the fire. Nice move Bollinger!

It seems that no matter how educated you are, common sense does not reside in many people. The University Prez only gave the Iranian Prez more power and influence in his country and further justifies his opinion of the U.S. Many may say "who cares" but remember, our soldier are being killed by insurgents using Iranian bought weapons! This was an open opportunity to allow free speech and maybe, just maybe, allow the people of Iran and other Middle Eastern countries to look at America as a welcoming and honest power in this world. It only made things worse and our soldiers will continually pay for that in blood. Insurgents and many Muslims are fueled by this stuff.

The University Prez may think that he won the favor of his critics but he did not look and acted tough to me, he looked and acted like a bully and a Indian giver. Surround yourself in your domain, protected on all sides and say what you want. Do you think the Iranian Prez was offended or upset? Was he angry. HE IS THE PRESIDENT OF A COUNTRY! He's had worse thrown at him. This was a big benefit for him and in his mind, this is what he wanted. Wait until he gets back to Iran and give a speech about his experience at Columbia University. Again, plain old common sense and logic does not reside in University Prez Bollinger.:banghead:

[Peregrine Took]

1. Not at all unusual for a full time, tenured academic to act in a craven

cowardly manner when they are the slightest bit threatened.

[struggle4progress]

33. Here's a link to the transcript. Bollinger's remarks don't seem terribly inappropriate to me

http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/2007/09/ahmadinejad-at-columbia-university-full.html

[Ethelk2044]

2. He should have just introduced the man. It does shows other

countries we are not trust worthy. Then the could have had a conversation with him and brought up the different view points.

[emilyg]

5. I agree. He probably had visions of $$$$ lost.

[FlaxieB]

6. Good point.

[minkyboodle]

7. should have read this post first

you just made my point exactly and in a less round about way :) I agree
100 percent

[FlaxieB]

3. That intro speech by Prez Bollinger will be used as a recruiting tool against our troops.

The insurgents will use this speech as a propaganda tool for recruitment in Iraq and Afghanistan to further motivate to kill/maim our troops. This will be the video used by the insurgents at our troop's expense. I hope that someone tells the University Prez what he has done since he doesn't have the common sense to see it himself. WE HAVE TROOPS ON THE GROUND! This is not about his own ass.

[minkyboodle]

4. It was completely unneeded

There were already students waiting to ask the tough
questions, condemn Iranian policy where it deserves
scorn (gay executions etc etc etc). He should have introduced
him, let him speak and then the questioners could lay
into him proper. The only reason he did it was because
of all the bad press he got, he did for himself not
for the world etc. There is a big difference between
inviting a world figure to speak and then subjecting
them to hard questions/criticism rather than blindsiding
them with a diatribe before they even speak. We look
like amateur jackasses to the world right now. Way to
go Lee.
Scott

[ruggerson]

8. Homophobic anti semites NEED TO BE DEMEANED PERPETUALLY

what about this do you not understand?

[minkyboodle]

10. read my post

he was going to be "demeaned" and was after his speech.
You don't invite someone to speak, then before that invitee
has opened his mouth insult the hell out of them in your
introduction. Its fucking diplomacy not a Friars Roast.
Ahmadinejad was going to get grilled afterwards hell I
have no problem with Bollinger saying the same things
but it is bad form to do it before your invited guest
speaks. I don't understand why some have such a hard
time understanding this point, it makes the US look
amateur and ridiculous.

[ruggerson]

12. They HANG CHILDREN in Iran

and you're worried about bad manners? IS this fucking Alice in Wonderland?

[FlaxieB]

15. I understnd that you don't get it. We'll be patient with you.

[Semper_FiFi]

65. This image tells me EVERYTHING I need to know abou the Terror of Tehran

what about that image is acceptable to you? Ahmadinejad is a bag of shit. He needs to be exposed for what he is.

[minkyboodle]

16. good lord

I'm worried about world opinion about the US that is at
an all time low, I'm worried about our troops in the Middle
East, I'm worried about our credibility with other countries
so that we can affect change for good both for ourselves
and for the victims of the Iranian government that you mention.
Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points eh?

[FlaxieB]

17. I'm confused? Who are you referring to and why?

opinions are being expressed. What's your issue? Disregard if you're not talking to me. Thanks.

[minkyboodle]

29. not at you

meant to reply to ruggerson sorry if I didn't do it proper
(ie worried about manners)

[FlaxieB]

41. Ok. thank you.

[IndianaGreen]

45. And so does Saudi Arabia, but they are our allies

so we won't say a word about them.

Hypocrisy knows no bounds when selective outrage is involved!

[FlaxieB]

13. This is about our troops getting killed in Iraq and Afghanstan.

What I understand is our troops getting killed by insurgents using Iranian weapons! This only fuels their fire. Again, common sense. Everyone demeans the Iranian Prez, he can't be trusted but don't try and act tough and express your personal views at a public frum at our troop's expense. THIS IS ABOUT OUR BRAVE SOLDIER"S LIVES, not someone's personal opinion. I'll put you in the same room as the University Prez and labeled you: common sense-lite.:pals:

[calteacherguy]

9. So he was supposed to introduce him as what he is??? nt

[ecstatic]

11. Good point... I agree. nt

[AZBlue]

14. I couldn't agree more. Why invite him as a guest, then insult him very publicly?

I think he thought twice about his invitation and decided to bow to media and popular opinion - which leaves me with absolutely zero respect for Bollinger.

[phillysuse]

18. I can't believe you used the phrase "Indian giver"

That is such a racist term.

The Indians (Native Americans) gave the colonists many gifts - they taught them to plant corn and beans and squash and tobacco and they didn't take any of those gifts back.

Instead the colonists gave them smallpox infected blankets and took their land.

Indian Giver and British colonial thieves.

[FlaxieB]

20. The university Prez did the same thing

gave the Iranian Prez a platform under the pretense of "good faith". He back stabbed the man and tried to insult him due to public pressure. What's the difference? As I said before, I don't like the man but don't bullshit him. He has power and influence and he can use that against our troops. Yes, The University Prez is an Indian-giver and right now he is on CNN being interviewed. Reminds me of the colonists and their deception. Not a racist term, it's a person who is intentionally deceiving and conniving. That can be anybody. In this case, University Prez Bollinger.

[Gloria]

19. Wonder what they're teaching at Columbia University??

[Mythsaje]

21. 20 years ago Iraq was killing Iranians with U.S. bought weapons...

Come to think of it, Iranians were killing Iraqis with U.S. bought weapons too.

More or less.

[Hydra]

26. The more things change... n/t

[Hydra]

22. I have one problem with your post

Post your source on the "Iranian weapons"- Bush has used the excuse of the "IEDs from Iran" and been spanked on the accuracy of that.

[FlaxieB]

24. The buying and selling of weapons does not have to be government approved.

Ever heard of the black market?

[Hydra]

25. And did you hear about those "missing weapons" of ours?

that are probably in the hands of insurgents now? By that logic, we are enabling the insurgency...and true black market weapons are how the fault of any gov't???

If you are asserting that they are supplying the insurgents, directly or indirectly, I'd like your source. Bush would kill for evidence like that, you know.

[FlaxieB]

48. I guess if you have little or no real world experience about the world we live in

I can understand your statement. NEWSFLASH: Everything is not bought or sold above board, especially military weapons during a war. You don't need a written source (show me in writing) for that, just world experience and the understanding of an enemy combatant. This is happening and the U.S. government knows it. What are they doing about it? Nothing. Hell, they can't even supply our troops with needed military equipment, how the hell are they going to stop black market weaponry? Wait for the next Prez to figure it out, not this current bunch of losers.

[Hydra]

61. Hmm...

You might want to be careful of how much/little knowledge you think you know about.

Let's start with the point that you are spouting Gov't propaganda. If you're going to do that, be sure to say it's conjecture on your part unless you witnessed it personally. Your assertion basically boils down to "The Iranians MUST be doing it because that's what happens in wars!" That's fine- it may even be completely accurate...but unless you have a source, it's still conjecture.

Second, the current admin. knows EXACTLY what they are doing. Sending the troops there without needed equipment was a deliberate act, as are the raids we are currently conducting in Iran. Allied troops have been caught blowing up holy sites and posing as insurgents, as well as "losing" money and materials that are supporting the insurgency. We are fostering a policy of arming the populous and inciting sectarian violence in the hopes that they will kill each other off.

Such a good job we are doing there, and what a great impression we gave the world yesterday. :sarcasm:

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. I think Columbia did us all a favor.

The president of Iran came across as batshit crazy. He's certainly no even-tempered Mandela. And I wouldn't have known that if Columbia hadn't given him this venue. So thank you, Columbia.

[FlaxieB]

27. Remind yourself of this thread when a soldier is killed using Iranian black market weapons.

Remember, he may be bat shit crazy, but he is a President who has power and influence, just like our bat shit crazy Prez Bush. You don't provoke or insult someone like that. Our costs can be high in american soldier's blood.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. I'm very much aware of what I said. And very concerned about what

we're dealing with.

When is the next election in Iran? We'll clean up the White House in 2008 of the guano, they have to do their part too.

[Joe the Revelator]

30. "You don't provoke or insult someone like that"

You'd rather we kiss their ass?

Any man who kills homosexuals and denies as well as cheapens the holocaust does not deserve any type of respect. This apologist BS you're spouting is pathetic.

[FlaxieB]

32. Sir, those are the civil rights of that country.

no different than our american civil rights. They have laws just as we do. We may not agree with them but it's their laws. I care more about an american soldier's life than Iran's civil rights. You can detest him all you want and their way of life (your personal choice) but the world isn't going do a thing about it. The world already know this. His views are his views and it doesn't bother me. Soldiers being killed with Iranian black market weapons do.

All nations have their laws, civil rights, customs and their way of life. We may not like them and they may not like ours. That's life.

[Joe the Revelator]

34. Just so we're clear...

If I were an avowed anti-semite as well as a murderer of people based on their sexual proclivities, you would invite me into your house, let me spew my warped beliefs and support my ideas with your silence?

To take it a step further, you're opposed all those abroad who protest G.W. Bush when he steps foot in their countries, because the man is the American law, so what he says goes, and well, why provoke him. Right?

[FlaxieB]

37. I would not invite you knowing that up front.

The University President should not have invited him under the pretense of "free speech and good faith. It was stupid of him to do so but due to critic's pressure, he caved in and tried to right himself with that introduction. Yes, he will get some T.V. time, yes he will get some support but remember, we have troops on the ground. Actions on the ground are political was well as military and our soldiers have to deal with this bull shit 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We carry on with our lives daily with little or no thought of death or injury on a daily basis, so we feel safe. Not the reality of the soldier. He has to fight a highly motivated, technologically equipped insurgency who has not an ounce of remorse for american soldier's life. If you think about them and care about them, you will watch what you say or do. Yes, free speech is a right, but a soldier's death is much more costly than your personal opinion or some scenario you're creating to continue this dialogue. This is bigger than you or me.

[Eurobabe]

63. Our pResident is bat-shit crazy, so let the two of them

battle it out in one of those UFC cages, with some steroids as appetizers.

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. Two go in, neither comes out. Just lock the cage and we'll call it a night.

[Eurobabe]

66. sounds like a plan to me. bring on the lions!

[Joe the Revelator]

31. To expound on your "logic"

People in other countries shouldn't protest or speak out against Bush, because doing so make provoke the evil man.

I can't believe we've stooped to this.

[FlaxieB]

35. Did Bush travel to Iran and was invited to speak?

No. Hell, he can't even travel to Iraq unless he sneaks in during darkness. A glaring testimony to his stupidity and ineptness. Nobody's stooping, this is just a severe lack of common sense on the part of the Columbia University Prez. Just think before you act.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. Was it rude?

Maybe, then again, I don't think that the Iranian President deserves niceties.

What I'm commenting on, and what worries me, is the thought process you're employing, in which one can not confront dangerous men on the grounds that they might take it as provocation. That, my friend, is where the hours become dangerous.

[FlaxieB]

38. It's already dangerous for our soldiers.

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. If this had happened to Bush in a foreign country, how many DUers would be cheering?

:shrug:

[FlaxieB]

40. Plenty. Bush is a proven idiot and moron.

You have to give respect in order to get respect. Bush doesn't qualify for either. You know that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

43. And Ahmadouchebag qualifies for respect?

:shrug:

[FlaxieB]

46. No, their both idiots and morons.

but the difference is that Iran supports the insurgency against our troops using black market weapons from Iran to kill our soldiers. They both need to be committed or placed in a controlled coma indefinitely, They are both :crazy:

[IndianaGreen]

42. Bollinger made an ass out of himself when he spewed White House talking points about the war in Iraq

and repeating Cheney's unproven allegations about Iran's nuclear intentions.

Ahmadinejad showed himself for what he was in his responses to the students' questions, yet Bollinger's tirade turned Ahmadinejad into a sympathetic figure.

I also take exception to Bollinger's accusation that Iran is engaged in terrorism. Perhaps someone should point out to him that the United States is the biggest exporter and protector of terrorism on this planet. It was the US, and not Iran, that has protected terrorists such as the Miami mafiosi Bosch and Carriles. It was the US that blocked a ceasefire in the UN to allow Israel to firebomb and use cluster and radiological bombs on civilian cities and towns in Lebanon. It is the US that has enabled Israel's cruel subjugation of the Palestinians.

As to Bollinger's militaristic remarks about Columbia alumni serving in Iraq, while it certainly excited the yellow magnetic ribbon crowd, it played differently across the world. The rest of this planet sees the US military as a cruel invader and occupier of Arab lands, engaged in a modern day crusade against Islam while in cahoots with Israel.

Bollinger's hypocrisy is compounded by his failure to note that Iran's despicable treatment of women and gays is no different from the way Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, and the rest of our allies in the region treats women and gays. Apparently we are still ignoring the crimes from our client despots in the region while obsessing about Iran.

Shall we mention how the US still denies gays and lesbians the full rights of citizenship?

[FlaxieB]

44. Excellent point.

[bemildred]

47. Yeah.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Ahm-an-idjit came here to win international sympathy and support, and they handed it to him on a platter by throwing a tantrum.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

53. well said.

[kineneb]

49. it is all about manners(!) and treatment of guests

Even if he is the biggest, meanest, most depraved ruler of XYZ country, etiquette demands he be treated in a civil manner. It is for us to set a better example, not a worse one. Cautious graciousness always looks so much better, even if the the person being introduced is Attila the Hun.

Now suppose that it was the introduction of the King of Saudi Arabia, where human rights conditions are much worse than in Iran... would the King of SA get a tacky introduction? I think not. Why? Because BushCo and the Saudis are buddy-buddy (an oily situation).

Or think of any number of the puppet dictators our gov. has installed around the world...would they get an insulting introduction? No.

Civility has broken down in the US, following Georgie Boy's bad example.

[onenote]

50. so if chimpy is treated badly by a questioner in another country, you'll be upset, right?

[kineneb]

52. questioner, no. the person introducing him, yes.

it is always better to treat people how you would like to be treated, this is especially true at the international level. Manners do matter.

A simple "This is President of Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejad." That would have sufficed. If the college president wanted to make editorial comments, he should have done it after Ahmedinejad spoke.

Bush is an ass, but I would expect a foreign dignitary to introduce him politely. When the questions begin, that is when the fur can fly. Never mind that Bush would run away before the questions begin.

[FlaxieB]

55. Correct, civility has completely broken down

In this "you are either with us or against us" mentality that has plagued this country since the Bush/Chaney climb to power, Many americans citizens have forgotten one thing, in order to earn respect, you have to give respect. Our present cultural "cowboy" attitude has given people carte blanche to say and do anything they want to anyone with little or no repercussions. This is one of the most violent times this country has faced with this war and terrorism saturated everywhere. Our lives have changed since 9-11 and yes, we don't like our present environment but please don't lose your values and morals along the way.

Highly educated, well connected tenured leaders such as Prez Bollinger should understand that and try to teach those values to his students but I guess his decision to display toughness after public criticism was more important for his personal image and his pocketbook. I can now understand why our young people are completely off base in the values and morality department. Prez Bollinger's scathing introduction of the Iranian Prez will probably serve him well at dinner parties, get him speaking engagements and impress his students but he did not see the bigger picture: We are fighting a bloody war in the Middle East and our soldiers are dying. The insurgents live for stuff like this to recruit and motivate. I wish someone would have told him that prior to his speech.:(

[Pachamama]

51. The first half of Bollinger's intro was fine and it showed his emphasis on freedom of speech, even

and especially with those that we don't necessarily agree with. But then he took a turn and in my opinion, lost all credibility by demonstrating a complete lack of class when the very same person that he had extended an open invitation to, he attacked and smeared. Even if everything he said was true (and much of it was), it was just plain wrong in an introduction of someone to say that. He could have waited until the question and answer session to bring up specific questions on topics and the ones that Bollinger accused him of. I think in an academic forum, especially when that person is the President of a Country, good or bad, they deserve to be treated with respect and if anything, Bollinger squandered the opportunity to demonstrate and show Ahmadinejad and the rest of the world that we have class.

[JCMach1]

54. He had the cultural sensitivity of Bush on a Segway

Not matter how much you hate them, you never insult a 'guest' in ME, or Arab culture.

[onenote]

56. Bollinger announced well in advance what he was going to do

If it was that bothersome for Ahmadinejad, he could've sought out a friendlier forum. (And by the way, it was the School of International and Public Affairs, not Bollinger personally, that invited Ahmadinejad to speak).

As far as I'm concerned, one has to earn respect and I don't see anything that AHmadinejad had done to earn respect.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/07/09/ahmadinejad2.html

[FlaxieB]

58. Respect in the form of an introduction

Prez Bollinger is an educator of young people, who one day will be leaders in this country. This sets a terrible example for them. Yes, the Iranian Prez is a bad man who can't be trusted but common sense should prevail in the face of controversy.

As I said before, common sense is a basic value, something you learn from your parents, not in college. Prez Bollinger doesn't have it. If he has his own personal issues to discuss with the Iranian Prez, he should have done it privately, but don't try and impress the very students who you are responsible for educating and blind side someone who you told up front you appreciate his presence and his words. He even told the media that free speech is a virtue and I will allow him to speak. Those students may take that same attitude with them in the future and make the same mistake. We owe our children better than that. Has he any common sense? No. Prez Bollinger bowed to critic's pressure, a cowardly act on his part.

Question? Isn't the School of International and Public Affairs part of Columbia University? Who has overall responsibility for that department? Who is the President of Columbia University? Again, common sense.

[onenote]

59. and Bollinger stated up front what he was going to do

Where was the outrage before hand? Where were the complaints from ahmadinejad? Seems like a lot of concocted concern to me.

[donsu]

57. I was surprised at Bollilnger being two faced

leading up to the speech he was all open and liberal - teaching the students free speech, etc.

then right in Ahmadinejad's face he craps on him.

wow, did that ever teach the students something!

and it showed the world the truth of how neo cons act.

[onenote]

60. I guess you didn't know about his letter from Sep 19

where he spelled out exactly what he was going to do.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/07/09/ahmadinejad2.html

[donsu]

62. no I didn't know about the letter - in the interviews I saw of him he

never said that. just that the students would ask pointed questions, etc.

gosh, knowing that ahead of time, ahmadinejad was brave.

[rasputin1952]

67. I don't think he was "brave", I think he was a fool...

Just my opinion, but Ahmadinejad walked into this situation fully aware he was going into the Lion's Den.

From what I saw, and I watched the entire episode live, Ahmadinejad hedged and hawed on virtually every question, (as politicians are apt to do), and squandered any opportunity he had to make a difference. What he did, was ensure that he showed not just the Americans who watched the scenario, but the world as well, that he is: a) not a very good or well prepared speaker, b) distorts history to avail himself of a religious/political opportunity, c) is essentially a pretty poor example of a "leader".

Of course, the same is true of bush, but everyone already knew bush was a lunkhead, now they know Ahmadinejad is as well.

The whole thin is overblown by people with their own personal points to pick. The fact of the matter is, Ahmadinejad leads a country that terminates people at will, including children, women and gays; wishes to destroy Israel and all of the people in Israel; and continues to arm jihadists with the intent to kill and maim innocents. There is speculation on the nuclear aspect, but it seems to me, if there is a such a minuscule respect for life throughout Iraq, as shown by it's leaders, then nuclear arms are certainly a part of the equation.

Just my 2 cents, but i think the guy is as crazy as bush, and that is a problem.

[pudding man]

68. blind-idiot social pressure

>Again, plain old common sense and logic does not reside in University Prez Bollinger.

Seems they *all* cave-in to blind-idiot social pressure nowadays.

Look at what U. Colorado is doing to Ward Churchill.

Look at what idiot DePaul is doing to Finkelstein (whom I salute).

"If you wish to engage in Thought and/or Discussion, US universities
may be very good places to avoid!".

Puddin'

[Kurovski]

69. Actually, you agree with the university prez about the weapons.

Iranians dislike their president as much as we (most of us) dislike ours here. I don't know that there will be much outrage if Ahmadinejad complains about his treatment. Maybe for the people already prepared to fight from the time Bush called them "The axis of evil."

I wonder if BushCo would stoop to arranging to have "Iranian" weapons provided to the insurgency to bolster his move for war in Iran?

'We all know Bush is looking for any excuse to attack Iran, but especially accusing them of providing weapons to the insurgency in Iraq. But what’s Bush going to do about all the thousands and thousands of weapons and explosives we American taxpayers are providing the insurgency, free of charge? Maybe he could call on the Pentagon to strafe itself. You see, it was the Pentagon that lost 30% of the weapons the US distributed to Iraqi forces from 2004 until this year. Unaccounted for are about 190,000 AK-47 assault rifles and pistols, enough probably to cause a little trouble here and there. By the way, it’s not the liberal media who are saying this; no, it’s the Government Accounting Office (GAO). The GAO also says “it is nearly impossible for the U. S. military to know whether it is battling an enemy equipped by American taxpayers.” (All quotations are from an MSNBC.com story taken from The Washington Post.)'

http://bobster.statesmanblogs.com/entry.aspx?q=dcf20ebd-a246-42e3-ae32-998200cac9a6

...and the catapult fires off another round.