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Must Read. David Brooks: "The Center Holds" or "More Humping for Hillary"

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:21 AM
Original message
Must Read. David Brooks: "The Center Holds" or "More Humping for Hillary"
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 07:32 AM by flpoljunkie
September 25, 2007

The Center Holds

By DAVID BROOKS

Now it’s evident that if you want to understand the future of the Democratic Party you can learn almost nothing from the bloggers, billionaires and activists on the left who make up the “netroots.” You can learn most of what you need to know by paying attention to two different groups — high school educated women in the Midwest, and the old Clinton establishment in Washington.

<>The fact is, many Democratic politicians privately detest the netroots’ self-righteousness and bullying. They also know their party has a historic opportunity to pick up disaffected Republicans and moderates, so long as they don’t blow it by drifting into cuckoo land. They also know that a Democratic president is going to face challenges from Iran and elsewhere that are going to require hard-line, hawkish responses.

Finally, these Democrats understand their victory formula is not brain surgery. You have to be moderate on social issues, activist but not statist on domestic issues and hawkish on foreign policy. This time they’re not going to self-destructively deviate from that.

Both liberals and Republicans have an interest in exaggerating the netroots’ influence, but in reality that influence is surprisingly marginal, even among candidates for whom you’d think it would be strong.

Read it all...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/opinion/25brooks.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. The tepid-minded Mr. Brooks; he is so above it all, isn't he?
And wrong about almost everything he writes about.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. He's right on this one, though. nt
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yeah, bloggers and billionaires are surely cut from the same cloth.
:eyes:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Each has the time to 'self-select' to be activists. Most people have neither the time, nor money...
and fall in the political middle.
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. So ideology is a function of leisure time?
Well, THAT certainly explains the labor movement! Try again, Mookie.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Well, there isn't much of a labor movement in this country...
sad to say. But certain demographics have the spare time. This is why women under 35 are the least likely to keep up on the news and to vote. They don't have the time.

I was in polling, and the political activity levels of certain groups really vary.

People who feel strongly about issues are the most likely to be active and they are more likely not to be in the middle, where more political candidates and policies are acceptable.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
57. Actually, Glenn Greenwald totally demolished this column today
Brooks' column today -- praising Democrats for ignoring radical anti-war bloggers and instead embracing "Centrism" -- is a perfect showcase for both of these dishonest tactics. His column is devoted to the argument that the Democratic Party hates its blogger and anti-war activist base, is committed to hawkish military policies, and that it is doing the Right Thing in this regard because Most Americans want a hawkish military policy. That is "centrism."

Thus, ignoring bloggers' demands for greater confrontation with Bush and remaining in the "center" (i.e., adhering to Brooks' political beliefs) is the only way Democrats can win elections (Brooks, of course, cares deeply about the health of the Democratic Party and wants only what is best for it). This is his argument:

In the beginning of August, liberal bloggers met at the YearlyKos convention while centrist Democrats met at the Democratic Leadership Council's National Conversation. Almost every Democratic presidential candidate attended YearlyKos, and none visited the D.L.C.

At the time, that seemed a sign that the left was gaining the upper hand in its perpetual struggle with the center over the soul of the Democratic Party. But now it's clear that was only cosmetic.

Now it's evident that if you want to understand the future of the Democratic Party you can learn almost nothing from the bloggers, billionaires and activists on the left who make up the "netroots." You can learn most of what you need to know by paying attention to two different groups -- high school educated women in the Midwest, and the old Clinton establishment in Washington.

So the real Heart and Soul of the Democratic Party is not bloggers, but those "high school educated women in the Midwest" whom Brooks condescendingly idealizes. And there is, of course, no overlap between those two groups. Bloggers are rabid elitists freaks from the coasts, while "high school educated women in the Midwest" are the saintly salt of the American earth who don't know what blogs are.

And how do we learn what the true political beliefs are of the all-important "high school educated women in the Midwest"? Do we consult polls or the outcome of elections? No, there is no need for any of that. We can just ask David Brooks, because he profoundly understands them, and they always think as he does. Like David Broder and the rest of the Beltway class, David Brooks speaks for Them. Thus, Democrats can only win elections if they adopt the views of David Brooks, because those are the views which are adored in the Heartland.

To "prove" this claim, Brooks all but declares Hillary Clinton the nominee of the Democratic Party, and then points to her winning foreign policy views which, he claims, repudiate the anti-war radicalism of the Leftist bloggers and instead embraces the ongoing Middle East hawkishness which "most Americans" want:

On "This Week With George Stephanopoulos," Clinton could have vowed to vacate Iraq. Instead, she delivered hawkish mini-speeches that few Republicans would object to. She listed a series of threats and interests in the region and made it clear that she'd be willing to keep U.S. troops there to handle them.

The fact is, many Democratic politicians privately detest the netroots' self-righteousness and bullying. They also know their party has a historic opportunity to pick up disaffected Republicans and moderates, so long as they don't blow it by drifting into cuckoo land. They also know that a Democratic president is going to face challenges from Iran and elsewhere that are going to require hard-line, hawkish responses.

Finally, these Democrats understand their victory formula is not brain surgery. You have to be moderate on social issues, activist but not statist on domestic issues and hawkish on foreign policy. This time they're not going to self-destructively deviate from that.

So what "most Americans" want is hawkishness on Iraq and Iran and the Middle East generally. In other words, they all embrace Bill Kristol and Dick Cheney's foreign policy views. What a coincidence! As always, what the "high school educated women in the Midwest" all believe happens to be exactly what David Brooks wants! By contrast, anyone who rejects those views resides in "cuckoo land."

Thus, Democrats can win elections only by repudiating those rabid anti-war bloggers who hold Fringe Views (such as favoring an end to the Iraq War and opposition to a war with Iran) and instead vow to remain in the Middle East more or less forever, ruling the region militarily. Because that's what "high school educated women in the Midwest" women want.

Of course, Brooks' entire column is factually false. That's why he does not cite any polling data, because it shows the exact opposite of everything he says. Most Americans want and have long wanted compelled withdrawal from Iraq. Overwhelming majorities oppose military action against Iran and favor negotiations. As indicated, large and increasing numbers believe that we are far too militarized and are excessively interfering around the world, including in the prized Middle East. And the defining views of the Radical Heartland-hating bloggers are, in virtually every case, shared by most Americans.

And while Brooks is certainly right that Democrats generally have been following his advice and that of David Broder and Fred Hiatt -- that, particularly with foreign policy, the smart thing for Democrats to do is to support, and certainly not disrupt or impede, the Cheney/Kristol foreign policy in the name of "centrism" -- it is somewhat hard to argue that this is smart politics in light of this:

A new Gallup Poll finds Congress' approval rating the lowest it has been since Gallup first tracked public opinion of Congress with this measure in 1974. Just 18% of Americans approve of the job Congress is doing . . .

That 18% job approval rating matches the low recorded in March 1992, when a check-bouncing scandal was one of several scandals besetting Congress.

And how do Democrats view the behavior of their own party as they follow Brooks' "centrism" advice?

Frustration with Congress spans the political spectrum. There are only minor (but not statistically meaningful) differences in the approval ratings Democrats (21%), Republicans (18%), and independents (17%) give to Congress. Typically, partisans view Congress much more positively when their party is in control of the institution, so the fact that Democrats' ratings are not materially better than Republicans' is notable.

Only in the twisted, fact-free, self-loving world of the Beltway Pundit is a political approach which produces these disastrous results "smart" and "successful." But they are so convinced that what they believe is always what Real Americans in the Heartland believe -- they so endlessly equate their own views with "centrism" -- that they will never accept that their orthodoxies are unpopular, even when facts prove conclusively that they are. That is why the gap between the Beltway and America continues to grow rapidly.

What the Beltway Establishment believes more than it believes anything else is that the U.S. should continue to intervene in other countries, dominate the Middle East, and rule the world by superior military force. Thus, no matter how many Americans come to reject that mindset, affirming that mentality will remain a prerequisite for Seriousness and for being approved of by the Beltway class. Any politician, Democratic or Republican, who rejects these basic orthodoxies, no matter how unpopular the orthodoxies become, will be relegated to "cuckoo land."

The real goal of the Beltway class is to eliminate all real differences, all meaningful debate, on these central questions. The Beltway class demands bipartisan agreement on the most important issues. Along with the belief that crimes committed by the revered Beltway elite should never be investigated and especially not prosecuted, they venerate this harmony above all else.

And even when the American citizenry rebels against this bipartisan consensus -- as it plainly has done with regard to Iraq specifically and generally concerning our imperial behavior in the world -- the Beltway class, led by the likes of David Brooks, will simply take to lying, falsely claiming that "most Americans," the good pure Heartland, really do agree with them and that Democrats therefore must continue to embrace these shared Beltway pieties if they have any hope of winning. And because David Brooks and David Broder and the like rule the Beltway opinion-making world, Democrats listen and follow.

Thus, this is what we hear: The Democratic controlled Congress has reached new depths of unpopularity, but what they are doing is politically smart. Most Americans really want us to stay in Iraq. Bloggers are espousing views that most Americans hate. Views held by most Americans are the province of the "radical angry Left." Democrats can only win elections by supporting the popular President's policies, avoiding any real differences, and scorning their own base. The only hope Democrats have is to adhere to prevailing Beltway orthodoxy.

That is the only real point of what David Brooks and most of his pundit comrades say and do over and over and over. And as their assertions become more and more transparently false, they just increasingly invoke misleading and deceitful tactics in order to maintain them.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/25/brooks/index.html


But hey, at least Hillary has a new fan in David Brooks.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. But...but...but...he coined the term "bobos"!
He is a mediocre writer and thinker.
Also, his mother dresses him funny.
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iconocrastic Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. "He is a mediocre writer and thinker" - and so is Hillary
No wonder.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. other than the fact it's Brooks. Other than the fact the words he uses may offend you...
...it is difficult to find anything inaccurate in the piece.

As the journalist Ron Brownstein and others have noted, Democratic primary contests follow a general pattern. There are a few candidates who represent the affluent, educated intelligentsia (Eugene McCarthy, Bill Bradley) and they usually end up getting beaten by the candidate of the less educated, lower middle class.

Right on target.

In fact, the only thing dubious in the piece is the end part about John Edwards. I'm certain Brooks isn't telling an outright lie about Edwards. He may have misunderstood. But it does sound like something Edwards might do.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Is Brooks on target when he implies that Clinton supporters are basically dumb?
Read the column. On that point, he may be right.

:rofl:


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. he didn't say that.
:rofl:

Unless you're calling those with just a high school education "dumb," in which case you fit right into the Bradley/Dean/Obama demographic he so accurately portrays.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Who do I like engaging in a conversation with...
Generally, it would be people that could make it through college. There's nothing wrong with people who never went to college, but those people generally don't have an interest in understanding nuanced politics and issues.

Yes, I was for Bradley. Not for Dean initially. However, I must be part of the netroots intelligentsia. Hey, I've been called worse.

:hi:

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. so, is that a veiled admission you were less than honest about what Brooks said?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. WTF...
Do you know what that means? It's netroots...

:crazy:

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. WTF yourself...
You said Brooks implied Clinton supporters were dumb. Which he did not, as I pointed out.

Then you followed up with something really silly:

Generally, it would be people that could make it through college. There's nothing wrong with people who never went to college, but those people generally don't have an interest in understanding nuanced politics and issues.

This is a stupid statement for two reason. One, your implication is still that people who didn't go to college are dumb and, two, you must have a college degree to "have an interest in understanding nuanced politics and issues."

Completely unfounded. The more you reply, the more you bury yourself into the perennial losing group that Brooks writes about.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Did you finish high school?
I detect some reading comprehension issues on your part.


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. and then you resort to wise assery. LOL.
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 09:56 AM by wyldwolf
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. I'm just seeing if you fit Brook's profile of a Clinton supporter without a college diploma
You see, when you go to college, they demand you answer the question. Some high school education never instructs its pupils to arrive to that point.

Again, did you finish high school?

Did you go to college?

These are issues that Brooks interjected in his masterful presupposition and postulation on Clinton supporters.

:rofl:

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Well, you certainly fit the image of an ADD kid
Can't stay on topic. Always diverting your attention... :rofl:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. You can't answer a simple question?
Did you go to college?

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. you can't stay on topic?
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Strictly On the Job Training
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 10:00 AM by Moochy
You are at wyldwolf's place of work right now!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. LOL
All you need is a high school education and the ability to copy and paste crap from the Hillary 44 web site.

:rofl:


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. Moocher excels at wise assery, too. No substance.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, those billionaire leftists...
If the left was really composed of the billionaires there'd still be a political progressive movement.

What passes as "moderate" in the states is right-of-center everywhere else.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. David Brooks, of course, lavishes praise on Hillary's pollster, Mark Penn.
But Clinton has relied on Mark Penn, the epitome of the sort of consultant the netroots reject, and Penn’s approach has been entirely vindicated by the results so far.

In a series of D.L.C. memos with titles like “The Decisive Center,” Penn has preached that while Republicans can win by appealing only to conservatives, Democrats must appeal to centrists as well as liberals. In his new book, “Microtrends,” he casts a caustic eye on the elites and mega-donors of both parties who are out of touch with average voter concerns.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/opinion/25brooks.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. What a crap column...there's a guy with no friggin' idea what Obama represents
==Clinton has established this lead by repudiating the netroots theory of politics. As the journalist Matt Bai makes clear in his superb book, “The Argument,” the netroots emerged in part in rebellion against Clintonian politics. They wanted bold colors and slashing attacks. They didn’t want their politicians catering to what Markos Moulitsas Zúniga of the Daily Kos calls “the mythical middle.”==

Kos is consistently and openly critical of Obama exactly because he doesn't offer slashing attacks, and his "bold colors" come in the form of his approach to the process of politics rather than his ideology, traits that give Obama the edge in terms of trustworthiness and the ability to achieve meaningful change.

Brooks also ignores the power of the Internet as a fundraising tool (as has Clinton, to her detriment) and the growing strength of Obama at the grass-roots level.

About the only thing Brooks proves here is that it's easy to make John Edwards look like an idiot.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Brooks thinks that Hillary will win because she's in touch with average voter concerns
Brooks doesn't seem to know where Hillary is getting her money from! :rofl: From the article:

In a series of D.L.C. memos with titles like “The Decisive Center,” Penn has preached that while Republicans can win by appealing only to conservatives, Democrats must appeal to centrists as well as liberals. In his new book, “Microtrends,” he casts a caustic eye on the elites and mega-donors of both parties who are out of touch with average voter concerns.
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. Retrospectivily, the netroots will have proven to be "on target"...the question is how
long will it take for the technology to pierce the mindset of the masses, and when will the tipping point take place?

First Dean, then Lamont/Lieberman.....
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
48. The "Masses" Tend To Listen With A Tin Ear! Just Think WMD And
how easily they were sold. The masses are being told exactly what MSM wants them to be told, and they BUY the idea ALL OVER AGAIN! I have a real problem with supporting Hillary Clinton. The first one was that I don't like the dynastic emphasis it means and why we only seem to think TWO families are capable of running this country.

I won't go into the other reasons she bothers me because it seems useless. I often wonder what the other candidates must be thinking when it seems the CHOICE has been made, and we have over a year before the election actually takes place!
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. Must. Heave.
Brooks is always wrong. Always. He knows absolutely nothing outside of his self-created universe.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm sending David The Dumb a response
His pathetically slanted off-the-mark attempt at political analysis is fully in display in this article. He fails to mention the immense and deep source of financial contributions, the large crowds, the growing and strong grassroots efforts and overwhelming support from a wider set of the political bandwidth for Barack Obama. He blips that "Geffen fled to Obama"... Obama has netroots AND grassroots support. Imagine that, Dave...

I've wondered why the Clinton campaign had to outsource their table at the Democratic Party meeting in Milwaukee to some corporate convention events company when all the other tables were from solid grassroots supporters of their candidates.

When it comes to Brooks and Dowd and the New York Times, they fully do the bidding of the GOP; Dowd with her feminizing the male candidates and Brooks with the RNC talking points.

I wonder how Clinton supporters feel about Brooks insinuating that her supporters are essentially less educated, less affluent and predictably easy swayed.

Brooks thinks it's all about the snarky netroots that are getting support for other candidates, while the "rest of us" support the Default Candidate. He needs new glasses.




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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Your pathetic rant was more slanted than what you claim his was...
With the exception of the Edwards thing at the end, he looks pretty spot on...
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Brooks appears to be spot on that Clinton supporters are "less educated"
:rofl:

Like I needed to know that...

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. or as you said above "dumb." Right?
:rofl:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Give it a rest...
This thinking must be taxing on you. Go find a coloring book.

:rofl:



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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. nah. That one from you will follow you for a while. Like the Hannity lines you spread a while back
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. As wyldwolf copys and pastes another item into another DU'ers File
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. really? Where? Your lines are empty
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. My LTTE to NYT
To those concerned,

Mr. Brooks fails to mention the immense and deep source of financial contributions, the large crowds, the growing and strong grassroots efforts and overwhelming support from a wider set of the political bandwidth for Barack Obama. He blips that "Geffen fled to Obama"... Senator Obama has both netroots AND grassroots support. Imagine that. Mr. Brooks is completely missing the real story about both levels of support.

Here in Wisconsin, I've wondered why the Clinton campaign had to outsource their table at the Democratic Party meeting in Milwaukee to some corporate convention events company when all the other tables were from solid grassroots supporters of their candidates. I participate in tabling on a grassroots level for Obama and have yet to meet a solidly confirmed Clinton supporter out of thousands of people who have stopped by to grab an Obama bumpersticker and sign up to find out about the campaign. The support is getting even bigger.

Mr. Brooks thinks it's only the snarky, snotty netroots that are getting support for other candidates, while the "rest of us" must fall in line and support the Default Candidate. He couldn't be more misinformed.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
20. The same David Brooks once wrote that "neocon" was a code word for "Jew". He's
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 09:05 AM by oasis
a slimy rightwing propagandist.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. For your mouth
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Slang use of the word "hump": to exert oneself--which David Brooks must surely does
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. And when seamstresses accidental jab themselves with pins
they call them tiny little pricks
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. How tender Hillary supporters are!
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 09:53 AM by flpoljunkie
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. yeah, look who post the OP and whined about it.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #36
52. Whose actually whining here, wyldwolf?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. you.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. ROFLMAO!
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. That, or ...
you have a lot of seamstresses in your remote corner of the world. :evilgrin:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. BS
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
28. Brooks is rightwing and like most neocons, supports Hillary. lol
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. ooh! You have a list, then. Let's see it.
And show us references that support your contention on all of them.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
46. Polls. Endorsements, Columnists, Corporations, Lobbyists Are Very
hard at work and THEY have decided that IT WILL BE HILLARY! I don't know HOW to stop this onslaught, but I do know one thing.... the CONSTANT drum beat EVERY SINGLE DAY about HILLARY will more likely than not persuade the uninformed that they should get on the Clinton bandwagon.

When non-activist politicos hear the message over and over it generally means that they "go with the flow" and cast a vote for the candidate that garners the MOST attention. Given this situation, the Hillary Hype catches fire and in turn convinces those less informed that SHE is all there is. I've seen it happen all too often and those of us who follow politics on a regular basis will be unable to sway them with any information about another candidate. It's like going to bed at night with a recording so your mind is infused with a topic so that when you wake what you heard will have reached the recesses of you mind. The affect will enable you to remember this information and when the topic comes up, your memory kicks in.

We get the Daily Hillary Hype that she WILL be the nominee, therefore she WILL be! As we sit here and blog and throw ideas back and forth, the run of the mill voter tends to "go along to get along!" It SUCKS, but it does seem to work. It's the "mantra" that sells!
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
47. Amazing. "Left" activists are negligible, but somehow cost Gore the 2000 election by voting for
Nader. We're negligible, except when we're not. We're so negligible that, under ACT in 2004:

ACT’s GOTV Activities Around The Country

In 2004, ACT Had 93 Field Offices And An Army Of Over 100,000 Staff And Volunteers Who Reached Over 4.2 Million Targeted Voters on Election Day. “In 2004, 93 ACT field offices, staff and tools were open to over 40 partner organizations. This unprecedented commitment to building core political infrastructure culminated in an army of over 100,000 staff and volunteers working on Election Day with common plans and voter targets. ACT volunteers reached over 4.2 million targeted voters on Election Day 2004.” (ACT Website, http://acthere.com/plan, Accessed 3/10/05)

ACT Employed Over 5,000 Canvassers And Trained More Than 80,000 Volunteers. (ACT Website, http://acthere.com/plan, Accessed 3/10/05)

ACT Claims To Have “Best Voter File Available With More Than 65 Million Targeted Democratic Voters In 17 States.” (ACT Email, “What Is ACT Doing Now?” 3/9/05)

In Last Three Weeks Of Election, ACT Made “16 Million Phone Calls, Sent 23 Million Pieces Of Mail And Delivered 11 Million Fliers Door To Door.” (Glen Justice, “Advocacy Groups Reflect On Their Role In The Election,” The New York Times, 11/5/04)

ACT Registered About 500,000 Potential Voters In 2004. (Glen Justice, “Advocacy Groups Reflect On Their Role In The Election,” The New York Times, 11/5/04)

ACT Registered At Least 102,000 Voters In Missouri, 79,000 In Ohio, 126,000 In Pennsylvania. “Back at ACT’s headquarters in Washington, D.C., spokesman Jim Jordan reels off the statistics. The group has already registered 102,000 voters in Missouri, 79,000 in Ohio, 126,000 in Pennsylvania and 40,000 in Florida.


I was (and am) part of one of the grassroots progressive organizations that partnered with ACT in '04; whether the above figures are strictly accurate or not I don't know, and don't have the time or energy to research. I do know that the effort of the progressive grass roots was massive in '04. We were working- constantly - from October of '03. Whatever the case in the rest of the Country, here in upstate NY, that effort was made by progressives of all stripes, not the Democratic establishment. We were peace activists, environmentalists, Greens, grass-roots community activists, Indie Media activists - exactly the sort of people so despised and written off by DLC beltway strategists. The people who vote for the lesser-evil Democrats over and over because the Damocles Sword of the SCOTUS hangs over our heads.

Have I forgotten the DLC establishment objections to all that work? Could be. We weren't paying much attention to them? Did they object? Anyone remember? Maybe we're so negligible we should just stay home this time. Maybe the revulsion against the BFEE has reached such heights we wont' be needed this time around. I wouldn't mind a rest.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. I Live In Florida... Gore DID NOT LOSE... Nor Do I Feel Kerry Lost...
Call me a wacko, but for sure I'm cynical... I have almost reached the point that it IS USELESS to work our butts off, because in the end we get our BUTTS KICKED!

I could use a break too! Looks like I'll be getting one too, because I won't campaign for Hillary Clinton! Should she win the GE, I suppose I'll go back to sending and receiving silly emails!
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