I want a president who will tell the unvarnished truth...

[rateyes]

about everything. Is there a candidate who has demonstrated that he/she always speaks the unvarnished truth, without hedging their political bets?

I will vote for that candidate in the primaries and in the general election. I will not vote for a candidate I believe has lied to us, in either the primaries, or in the general election.

[Greyhound]

1. One that I know of...

Click the banner and show your support for America and DU

[TwilightGardener]

2. Such a person does not exist--you can't be in politics for very long by

telling the unvarnished truth. Honesty is relative.

[againes654]

3. Kucinich

is the only one that I know of, but as alot here will tell you...he is not electable

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. There is no such candidate.

Even the favorites of the respective fringes, Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich, lie routinely to make their cases stronger.

And you want the unvarnished truth? There never will be such a candidate. Think about your own family. Have you ever told a white lie to keep the peace? Or exaggerated a truth? I'm giving 5-3 odds that you either have done that, or are your family's pariah for being a blunt bastard. The same goes for politics. No one really wants to hear the REAL truth. Change rarely ever occurs by telling the real, unvarnished truth. Even every single "pure" organization that exists - even the ones talking about world poverty or treating kids with cancer - stretch the truth from time to time, or more often, selectively tell the truth, in order to make their case.

[rateyes]

6. So, which liar are you voting for? nt

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Hopefully Al Gore. Otherwise, I don't know. (nt)

[Greyhound]

8. care to provide an example? n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Not really.

I'm not exactly anticipating an open or truthful discourse on this topic, as I know how defensive some get. I'm quite certain you can find out rather easily if you put google and a few moments of your time to work, however.

[Greyhound]

65. Didn't think so. Lying is something that I'm very sensitive to and I haven't caught him

in one yet. He has changed his position, most notably on abortion, and I don't agree with him on several of his stands, but as far as I've been able to learn he hasn't lied.

I'm sure that has quite a bit to do with his lack of standing in the party, liars get very nervous around, and develop intense dislike for, the truly honest.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

72. As I expected, you'll believe what you want to believe.

I'm quite certain nothing I tell you is going to be accepted, so why would I bother?

[Greyhound]

76. I guess we'll never know since you've told us nothing.

"They all lie, so it's no big deal" is typical of how we got to here.

That's American values, alright, the people we're given to choose from don't meet the standard? Lower the standard.

Yes, that will fix everything. It's not like the next President will have any big problems to deal with, let's just throw it to whoever raises the most money.

:crazy::silly::crazy:

[slick8790]

56. What about DK's recent "THEY'RE TRYING TO SILENCE ME" crap about the AARP forum and the Steak fry?

He knew the requirements in advance and had a chance to fulfill them. I don't think having one office and one paid staffer is too much to ask of a candidate in the first state in the primary cycle. To spin it at the last minute and pretend he wasn't invited because they're trying to "silence" him is dishonest at the very least.

[Greyhound]

63. Is he a candidate for President? Was he invited? Is AARP an insurance company?

Yes. No. Yes.

There may be a difference of opinion as to the motive, but it was not a lie.

After the ABC fiasco, I think there is justification for feeling that way.

[slick8790]

66. No, as a matter of fact he was invited.

AARP sent a letter to his campaign informing him of the requirements, and he did not respond. If Kucinich isn't taking the first state of the primary season seriously, by having even one paid staffer, why should the state take him seriously?

[Greyhound]

73. Oh yes, the dog ate his invite....

Still not a lie.

[slick8790]

74. What would you call it

if another candidate pretended they were being excluded when they knew they didn't meet the criteria? If it's not a lie, it's dishonest at the very least.

[Greyhound]

77. If another candidate was, in fact, excluded, I would agree with them too.

The Democratic Party machine is, and has been, working to silence him for years. I don't believe for one second that the invitation was ever sent.

What would Occam believe?

[slick8790]

78. Occam, as in Occam's razor?

The simplest solution to me, is that Dennis didn't meet the requirements, and as such, was excluded. You think a vast party-wide conspiracy is really the simplest solution?

[Greyhound]

79. I really hope you're not as thick as you pretend to be, but then, the alternative is almost as sad.

The simplest solution is that they did not want him and so did not invite him. In any case, you still have not shown that DK lied. I could not care any less about your opinion of him.

The question was asked and answered.

[slick8790]

83. I hope you're not as thick either.

I hope that tin foil hat doesn't chafe as much as I imagine it would. A vast party-wide anti-kucinich conspiracy? Or simple bad campaigning? I know what I think, and I think most agree with me.

[jmp]

5. I hope you don't hold everyone to that same standard ...

Otherwise you are going to live a lonely and friendless life.

Even honest decent people lie.

[rateyes]

7. "Honest decent people lie."

So, how many lies, or what kind of lies can one tell and still be "honest?" And, when does one cross the line to become "dishonest?"

[jmp]

11. Do you lie? Are you honest and decent?

Where is the line? That is determined by each individual.

Everyone lies. Except me of course. I am brutally honest. Sometimes I am brutally honest through my teeth. :)

[rateyes]

13. I asked you first.

You answer my question, I'll answer yours. :hi:

[rateyes]

15. So, then,

Bush could consider himself to be an honest person? Does he believe that he has not crossed that line?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

12. Do you consider yourself to be honest?

[rateyes]

14. Yes, I do.

And, if I was running for president, I would tell the unvarnished truth to the American people. I would not lie about other nations. I would not lie us into war. I would not lie about taxes. I would not lie about the cost of my proposals.

I would not be elected.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. And that's why you won't ever see such a candidate. (nt)

[tigereye]

39. isn't there quite a bit of circular logic here?

our leaders are imperfect. We are imperfect. Why do we hold them to an absurd standard that we would not use on ourselves?

I think part of the problem is that there are very few large T Truths left. "truth" seems to have become quite variable and malleable.

"The Future isn't like the 40s" to quote Syd Straw....

[LanternWaste]

21. It's a matter of degrees, right?

It's a matter of degrees, right? Unless we define it in terms of absolutism, i.e.-- if a person tells one lie they may no longer be considered an honest person. And if that is indeed the case, I'd bet money that there are a grand total of zero honest people alive at any given time.

[rateyes]

29. Sure. Where is the line drawn, though, when it

comes to voting for POTUS? If he/she lies about anything to do with policy, IMO, they've crossed that line. Tell me the truth. I can handle it.

[LanternWaste]

43. 'Policy' seems to be about as vague and open-ended...

'Policy' seems to be about as vague and open-ended a word as 'honesty' in this context, though.

Also, since misdirection and disingenuous behavior are part and parcel of international diplomacy, it almost seems to be counter-productive.

[Think82]

54. then Biden's your guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-N-Sm_TnO4&mode=user&search=

[Cleita]

16. Yes, Dennis Kucinich. I saw him in person on Saturday and

he had no problem laying out the malfaesance of this administration and calling for Dick Cheney's impeachment. He said we could have all the health care and education every American needs with the present military budget. That's as truthful as it gets. Yet, he has been marginalized every way, seldom getting press coverage and our party has shuffled him off to the sidelines even ignoring his input in debates and campaign venues where the other more high profile candidates got all the spotlight.

[rateyes]

17. Well, I'll tell you this much....

so far, the only answers I've gotten to my question is:

1. Dennis Kucinich, and
2. Everybody lies.

Just making an observation.

[Cleita]

22. Then from God's pen to your eyes.

Think about it. Also, on a personal note, I don't know if you saw him on Jay Leno last night, but he talked about his impoverished childhood, having a large family, who was homeless at times, about wearing the same clothes to school everyday because it was all he had and of working after school, mopping the floors to pay his tuition in Catholic school. How many candidates have the candor to speak honestly about this and then say that he had no complaints because it taught him to be compassionate towards the least among us.

On edit: An additonal tought. Kucinich's story is the one of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps that Republicans love as long as it isn't them. Imagine what a formidable opposition he would make considering he embodies all their ideals about making it on your own and it made a liberal out of him not a conservative.

[Think82]

18. the ONLY one who does that is:

Biden. Just watch him in the debate tomorrow night.

[rateyes]

19. We have a second name...

The three answers so far:

1. Dennis Kucinich (who you believe lies, since you say Biden is the only one who doesn't)

2. Joe Biden (your answer--others have said only Kucinich, so they believe that Biden lies)

3. Everybody lies. (Which means we only have a choice between liars.)

These are interesting observations.

[Cleita]

24. I've got to admit that Biden is mostly a straight shooter, but

I don't consider him entirely honest about some of his positions. He's very truthful about what's happening with the military though. I would like to see him as Secretary of the Defense if a Democrat wins the White House.

[Think82]

26. Like which?

specifics, please?

[Cleita]

33. Read this from his website.

http://www.joebiden.com/issues?id=0003

He's not being honest in saying that the corporate health care industry is behind his health plan. He tries to make it look like his including them in the future discussion. Sorry but those of us who follow this issue know that the discussion has already been held. He talks about the universal health care without the single payer in front of it.

[Think82]

40. that's not fair

how do you know that the health insurance companies are "behind" this and not that this is not what Biden believes? If you want to hear the truth, you might have to hear things you don't want to hear.

If the health insurance companies WERE behind this, I think Biden would have a bit more campaign money than he does? Perhaps Biden believes this is a practical way to change the existing system, whereas repubs and the entrenched insurance industry will NEVER allow a complete overhaul.

Food for thought.

[Cleita]

41. It's a fair assessment, but I have learned on this board not

to argue with supporters of any presidential candidate because they will not see the forest for the trees. Sorry, but buh, bye.

[Think82]

42. so... i win the argument?

Look, I'm just trying to get people to FAIRLY TAKE A LOOK at Biden because I truly belive he is the best candidate to lead our country and the celebrity-driven msm and left-wing blogs often do not give Biden his due. I will be happy to discuss any problems you might have with Biden, as I have above.

[Cleita]

46. I think he will make a wonderful Secretary of Defense and I hope

Hillary or whoever is President will consider him for the post.

[Think82]

47. He'd make a better President

Why does everyone keep on with this sec of defense thing? It's not like he's guaranteed that appointment. It's like lots of people want to support Biden but because of the early polls they are reluctant to watch, listen, and support him. LEAD people, don't follow! Don't let the msm TAIL wag the DOG.

In my mind, if you watch the debates, it's not even close.

He could use your contribution...

[Cleita]

48. He's really down on my list.

My second choice is John Edwards. Sorry.

[Think82]

49. If you think he would make a great sec. of defense...

why is he down on your list for pres.? Don't you want a president who is AT LEAST qualified to be SOS? Don't understand your logic.

[Cleita]

50. I'm a way left liberal. Biden, Clinton and Obama are

centrists. That shouldn't be hard to understand. It's not that I don't appreciate some of Biden's positions, just not all of them.

[Think82]

51. yeah...I guess

... it's a pretty big jump to go from Kucinich to Biden. Can't hurt to try, though.

[LanternWaste]

44. And #3 appears to be the only honest and realistic one so far.

And #3 appears to be the only honest and realistic one so far.

Though if anyone can give me a list of world/historical politicians/leaders that have never lied, I'd be very intrigued to read it...

[Connie_Corleone]

23. Everyone lies. You pick the candidate who will do the best job as President.

If you don't like that, then vote for Jefferson Smith.

[Think82]

27. you mean...

... someone like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjzaCrjY448

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFWNQZVoiDs&mode=user&search=

[PatSeg]

34. People say they want an honest politician

but if you offer them one, they reject him/her.

[Connie_Corleone]

Can't access YouTube from work.

If this is about Biden, he is no exception to what I said.

[Think82]

53. please at least watch before

passing judgment.

[Connie_Corleone]

57. I'm already supporting a candidate.

Biden's okay to a point, but he's just not my choice for several reasons.

[Think82]

58. such as...?

... i see this is how a lot of my debates go on here. People can't give specific reasons not to vote for Biden. Don't be afraid, let us hear what you think.

I know you've picked obama but I really think of Biden as a smarter, more knowldegeable, more seasoned Obama who just hasn't gotten this media-hype-celebrity treatment because he's been to busy FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET US OUT OF IRAQ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjzaCrjY448

[Connie_Corleone]

60. He's all talk and no action.

He voted for the bankruptcy bill, he puts his foot in his mouth too many times, He says one thing and turns around and votes another way.

Those are my reasons.

[Think82]

61. Biden is...

always upfront when confronted with these questions and explaining his actions regarding any issue. The "say one thing, do another" criticism is simply not true. His "foot in mouth" reputation is not really valid either. Things are always taken out of context and blown out of proportion by the media which seems to be unfairly harsh to Biden.

[grasswire]

70. I honestly appreciate your support of your candidate

It's kind of refreshing. I wonder how it is that Biden elicits this niggling bit of mistrust in the minds of many Dems. I feel it, too. I'd like to like him. He looks presidential, he's smart as a whip, he's tough, he's seasoned, etc. But in the back of my mind there's an uneasy feeling that he doesn't stand up in solidarity with Dems in the crunch. Where does that come from? I couldn't tell ya. But if you're working for Biden, you can tell him that if he wants the nomination, he will probably have to directly address this problem with rank and file Dems.

[THUNDER HANDS]

25. jesus christ, find me a HUMAN BEING that doesn't lie

and I'll show you a robot.

or a 3-year old.

[rateyes]

28. I'm talking about lying to the American people...

about policy, and where they stand on the issues. I want the unvarnished truth about those things, and if one puts him/herself up as a candidate for POTUS, he/she ought to be able to provide the unvarnished truth of where they stand.

[Think82]

30. like I said

watch the debate tomorrow or any of Biden's youtube videos and draw your own conclusions.

[againes654]

32. As a whole

people (excluding most of DU) do not want to hear the truth, as much as they say they want it. That is why so many say that Kucinich is so unelectable. He tells the truth. That doesn't always serve all sides, so he pleases few as a whole

[Think82]

36. I'm sorry but...

Kucinich doesn't think wars are necessary. That is not truthful or practical, no matter how wrong the iraq war is.

[againes654]

37. He doesn't think wars are necessary in most cases

He believes there are other ways to solve problems than by running to war. However, that still does not make him a liar

BTW, who is your candidate?

[Think82]

38. see my above posts...

and please click the links and keep an open mind!

[redqueen]

31. Kucinich. n/t

[electron_blue]

35. LOL! Good luck.

[AZBlue]

45. I'm pretty sure there's no candidate like that running for any position, anywhere.

[onenote]

52. And the "unvarnished truth" is a matter of subjective judgment

The idea that there is one objective truth on everything is a joke. And how are you to judge. Are you absolutely certain that you know the "unvarnished truth" about everything?

[rateyes]

55. No, I don't. That's why I want to hear it from the candidates...

and history, evidence, and time bear out the truthfulness of one's statements.

[Cleita]

59. It's not that hard for someone to be open and truthful about

things. It's easier than lying and indulging in all kinds of subterfuge to cover up lies.

[silverback]

62. Sure, there's an honest man in this race...

See if you can find footage of the "values voters" republican debate.

There was one candidate who absolutely refused to pander to those lunatics, who answered every question honestly, even when he knew the audience wanted to hear something else, and always has. Ron Paul.

And then look at his poll numbers, or DKs who is nearly as honest as Paul.

People prefer a pleasant fiction to a hard truth.

[ooga booga]

64. I can hear old H.L. Mencken scoffing at the notion

that a president or a presidential candidate would ever give us the unvarnished truth.

The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

I remember him writing once something like this:

An honest man could no more be elected President than Pope of Rome because both offices require the holder to swathe the truth in bandages of soft illusion.

I believe he's right. People seem to prefer the comfortable illusions over the unvarnished truth. In the case of our elective war in Iraq, the comfortable illusions are finally wearing out and the unvarnished truth is showing through at long last. In 2008, we'll see a new crop of comfortable illusions out in the political arena, but not much unvarnished truth. Illusions make people feel warm and fuzzy. The truth is all too often prickly and narly.

[BootinUp]

67. Whose truth? n/t

[w4rma]

68. True. Truth often depends on the point of view. (nt)

[MiniMe]

69. I think there will always be reasons for a President to withhold some info

However, withholding certain info is much different than outright lying. I want a President who uses the power wisely, doesn't lie to us, and has the best interest of the American people as his goal. That means ALL the American people, not just the haves and have-mores.

[Silent3]

71. And for every one of you...

...there will be several more voters who (even if they same the same thing you do) will hold it against a candidate who tells the whole unvarnished truth, the moment they hear one bit of "truth" about the candidate they don't like. There's nearly always some bit of truth each voter doesn't want to hear about a candidate.

As a collective force, we voters routinely punish "too much" honesty and candor -- and no, there's no magic point where honesty and candor is so wonderfully compelling that we (again, as a collective force) demonstrate how mightily impressed that we are by such honesty by voting for the honest candidate in overwhelming numbers.

[Armstead]

75. Nader

Sure, he's proven himself to be an asshole spoiler in the past -- But he always speks the unvarnished truth about the issues.

[Steve_in_California]

80. Biden's your man!

He always tells the truth, even way doing so could cost him an election.

[mrigirl]

81. Biden's the right choice!!

He will give it to you straight up- always has always will.

[LWolf]

82. Kucinich. n/t